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At 12/9/07 07:31 PM, Brick-top wrote: But I did find out how to spell Gullible :D

damn I was hoping for some mildly stimulating debate

At 12/9/07 07:33 PM, Earfetish wrote:

At 12/9/07 07:31 PM, Brick-top wrote: But I did find out how to spell Gullible :D

damn I was hoping for some mildly stimulating debate

Dude, I'd rather be a training instructor for suicide bombers than be a theist.

"Ok lads, now I'm only going to demonstrate this once........"

I guess I am agnostic in some senses; that is, I don't entirely rule out the possibility that there is a sort of supernatural being out there, but conceding so just gives religious idiots fuel for their bullshit arguments.

At 12/9/07 05:11 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 12/9/07 09:55 AM, Earfetish wrote:
Einstein was very specific in his disbelief of an actively angaged God. If you say 'he's religious because he's agnostic' then I would have to disagree, and I'd think Einstein would agree more with atheists than with members of organised religion.

Would that make him a deist, I guess?

I think that Einstein was much more of a Pantheist as opposed to a deist. You may get the same idea if you read more of his quotations and writings...

At 12/9/07 07:31 PM, Brick-top wrote: But I did find out how to spell Gullible :D

Something tells me im the only one that wasnt fooled by that...

At 12/9/07 06:44 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

At 12/9/07 06:37 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote: You may think you know, but you can't actually know he is real, in the same way Atheists can't know he isn't real.

Exactly, so the only thing we can do is go with our gut, until I think about 'why', then its clear.

Untrue, the only thing you can do is examine the history of religion, the evolutionary flaws that may have caused humans to want religion/listen to things they're told and accept them at face value, and estimate a probability of the (non)existence of a god.

At 12/9/07 08:59 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

At 12/9/07 07:31 PM, Brick-top wrote: But I did find out how to spell Gullible :D

Something tells me im the only one that wasnt fooled by that...

That's because you seen it coming. My Atheist attitude has changed recently. Which is worrying. Maybe it's cancer.

Look, im not here to preach,but if there is no God, what happens when you die, where did we come from, and whats the point of living? By the way, im a baptist.

PM that I couldn't respond to because you only accept PMs from people on your contact list for some reason

At 12/9/07 10:15 PM, EmeraldMaster wrote: if there is no God, what happens where you die.?
im a baptist, my grandfather just died and i refuse to believe that hes gone and ill never see him again.
im not here to preach, im not here to convert, im just here to try to understand what your beliefs (or lack thereof) are. please reply!

When you die, you die; your consciousness turns off and you die. I would try to put it in kinder terms, but I'll save that for my own loved one's funerals.

I have always found solace in death by looking back on the life led by the individual, the fortune they had to have experienced this Earth, however briefly; to open their eyes and experience life, how pleased you were to have known them and to have bonded with them while they were still here, and how happy and content they were with their lives and accomplishments. I've always thought some form of an afterlife can be found in other people's memories, your accomplishments, how you changed the world, but I can't jump from that to some external place where you meet up.

As far as I see, the soul is in the brain, all your memories are in the brain, all the affection you had for your friends and relatives was in the brain, and that stops working when you die. But that just makes living your life and experiencing those moments all the more special.

I really find great pleasure in thinking of the odds of my existence, the chances of some genetic material eventually becoming me, instead of all the other sperms, all the other genetic combinations, all the other ancestors, on one of all those hundreds of billions of planets - I should almost certainly not be here, but here I am. Conscious, living, breathing and thinking, and lucky enough to open my eyes and experience this planet. Indeed, I'm insanely lucky; life was the luckiest break I could ever get in an eternity.

There is a fundamental appreciation of life in atheism, which ironically helps us to cope with death.

At 12/9/07 10:33 PM, Earfetish wrote: There is a fundamental appreciation of life in atheism, which ironically helps us to cope with death.

Exactly! The things that you said in your last two post were truly beautiful. Well Put.

Seems to me that one would rather take the simple steps necessary to gaurantee his or herself eternal life than to risk spending eternity in excruciating pain and torture.

At 12/9/07 11:06 PM, BigScizot wrote: Seems to me that one would rather take the simple steps necessary to gaurantee his or herself eternal life than to risk spending eternity in excruciating pain and torture.

I think God would see through such an act.

I think God might prefer the honest seeker of truth than someone who's following out of fear

I think God might be pissed off with Christians and love Aztecs

I think God didn't prepare an eternal fire to condemn people who couldn't manage to believe in his particular religion

God might punish belief and praise skepticism

I can't believe religious people constantly bring up Pascal's Wager like it's the first time anyone's ever heard it

you should wiki 'Pascal's Wager'

However God doesn't exist and Hell doesn't exist so it's not like it'll ever work on an atheist

if God punishes people infinitely for finite sin, then I think He's a dick

At 12/9/07 11:14 PM, Earfetish wrote:

At 12/9/07 11:06 PM, BigScizot wrote: Seems to me that one would rather take the simple steps necessary to gaurantee his or herself eternal life than to risk spending eternity in excruciating pain and torture.

I think God would see through such an act.

You know, you're right. The reason for someone's true salvation should be their love of God, not their fear of Hell. But I think that once you're saved, you will begin to love Him anyway.

However God doesn't exist and Hell doesn't exist so it's not like it'll ever work on an atheist

You can't prove that. But ok fair's fair, I can't prove that all that does exist. But I think that logically it doesn't make much sense to just assume that it doesn't.

if God punishes people infinitely for finite sin, then I think He's a dick

And I think that neither you nor I can ever fully understand Him.

At 12/9/07 11:32 PM, BigScizot wrote: You can't prove that. But ok fair's fair, I can't prove that all that does exist. But I think that logically it doesn't make much sense to just assume that it doesn't.

My beliefs are evidence-based and not presuppositional. I can understand mankind's desire for religion, but I can't see how it makes sense. Especially not organised religion. It's not much of a long-shot to think 'there isn't a place of infinite torture' when very few religions talk of one and the idea of it is preposterous.

Again, I come back to the point that belief in God is far removed from belief in an organised religion.

At 12/9/07 11:14 PM, Earfetish wrote:

At 12/9/07 11:06 PM, BigScizot wrote:

However God doesn't exist and Hell doesn't exist so it's not like it'll ever work on an atheist

You can't prove that. But ok fair's fair, I can't prove that all that does exist. But I think that logically it doesn't make much sense to just assume that it doesn't.

Umm, yeah it DOES make a lot of sense to assume that it doesn't. Considering that the idea of the Christian Hell can be tracked down to its roots points of origin. From other primitive belief systems. The Greek's underworld, the Hebrew Sheol, and the realm of Hel (the norse deity). If you can determine the origin of a FAIRY TALE, then it's ridiculous to even consider its existence. Do you believe in the land that Alice visited through the Rabbit Hole?

If god was truly benevolent, I think it would be fair to give us something a tad more than some ancient scripture as a safeguard against eternal suffering.

At 12/10/07 03:24 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

I sense an Aura Change!

At 12/9/07 11:06 PM, BigScizot wrote: Seems to me that one would rather take the simple steps necessary to gaurantee his or herself eternal life than to risk spending eternity in excruciating pain and torture.

Also,
Simple steps necessary?

So I am assuming that you are a member of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, Taoism, Confucianism, Shinto, Caodaism, Chinese folk religion, Rastafarianism, Universalism, and the other roughly 2,500 other religions then, just in case they're right, which is impossible because most religions consider it sin to be of a different religion, so what now? Which one? Wow this is scary. Think of that, 1 in 2,500.

In which case, I pose the notion that the safest stance of religion is Secular Humanism, because A, you're leading a virtuous life, which I think it's safe to assume is favourable to nearly all religions, and B, the annoyance of god is equal in all religions for not worshipping him/her, as you're not worshipping anyone else either.

See how fun logic can be.

At 12/10/07 03:27 AM, bifgis wrote:

At 12/10/07 03:24 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

I sense an Aura Change!

A wise man you are then.

At 12/9/07 10:12 PM, EmeraldMaster wrote: Look, im not here to preach,

O...k.....

but if there is no God, what happens when you die,

You simple die. And that's it. Our families, our friends and everyone in between are simply dead.

where did we come from,

Personally I don't really care.

and whats the point of living?

To live, work, have fun, have children and die. But the point in living will change from person to person regardless of belief.

By the way, im a baptist.

Good?

At 12/9/07 11:06 PM, BigScizot wrote: Seems to me that one would rather take the simple steps necessary to gaurantee his or herself eternal life than to risk spending eternity in excruciating pain and torture.

That's called Pascal's wager. And do I have to go over it again noting it's flawes? Because I'm fed up having sex with Drakim lol

At 12/10/07 06:37 AM, Brick-top wrote:

At 12/9/07 11:06 PM, BigScizot wrote:

Because I'm fed up having sex with Drakim lol

You do know he finds your sexual advances repulsive,
right?

At 12/10/07 06:57 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 12/10/07 06:37 AM, Brick-top wrote:

At 12/9/07 11:06 PM, BigScizot wrote:

Because I'm fed up having sex with Drakim lol

You do know he finds your sexual advances repulsive,
right?

Yeah. I aint gay but he doesn't know that lol

What a homophobe.

At 12/10/07 07:11 PM, Brick-top wrote:

Yeah. I aint gay but he doesn't know that lol

You're an unnatural abombination.

At 12/9/07 10:29 PM, Earfetish wrote: I have always found solace in death by looking back on the life led by the individual, the fortune they had to have experienced this Earth, however briefly; to open their eyes and experience life, how pleased you were to have known them and to have bonded with them while they were still here, and how happy and content they were with their lives and accomplishments. I've always thought some form of an afterlife can be found in other people's memories, your accomplishments, how you changed the world, but I can't jump from that to some external place where you meet up.

Briefly experiencing exsistance to have it taken away is no way rewarding nor can solace be found in it. It is beyond cruel but it is easy for pampered societies with no real problems like Norway to forget that. Nations with a larg number of atheists are ones that can afford it, atheism is a novilty.

As far as I see, the soul is in the brain, all your memories are in the brain, all the affection you had for your friends and relatives was in the brain, and that stops working when you die. But that just makes living your life and experiencing those moments all the more special.

The soul is eternal, if there is no afterlife than there is no soul. if there is no soul all you are is a bunch of different organisms in one larg one (homeo sapian)

When you die, you die; your consciousness turns off and you die. I would try to put it in kinder terms, but I'll save that for my own loved one's funerals.

Dont cry for the dead if they died a full life (if you can help it), celebrate the passing of a loved one in their memory. Yu cry for yourself instead of the one who passed, your the one that is sad (unless the dead persone died a tragic death or died too young ) If you can help it dont be selfish for they are in a better place, oh wait...never mind, cry your eyes out for they are gone forever save for your own memory, and when your gone its like they never exsisted at all.

(of coarse out of respect dont go partying because some one died, thats just rude, keep it personal or with a couple of buddies raising a glass to honer the passing)

So when you die, what tree do you want to become?

At 12/10/07 08:54 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote:

Briefly experiencing exsistance to have it taken away is no way rewarding nor can solace be found in it. It is beyond cruel but it is easy for pampered societies with no real problems like Norway to forget that. Nations with a larg number of atheists are ones that can afford it, atheism is a novilty.

Just because religion makes promises infinitely more welcoming than Atheism, it in no way makes it true. It sounds as though you are saying that we should become Christians because we will die thinking we'll get to heaven.

The soul is eternal,

Prove it

At 12/10/07 09:01 PM, SlipperyMooseCakes wrote: So when you die, what tree do you want to become?

Christmas ^_^

At 12/10/07 09:33 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

At 12/10/07 09:01 PM, SlipperyMooseCakes wrote: So when you die, what tree do you want to become?

Christmas ^_^

Aww. That wouldn't be too great for an atheist I would think. Perhaps not. Like if you became a tree and then were cut down and were made into a crucifix.