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Surreality
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-16 21:01:02 Reply

At 3/16/10 08:58 PM, Hybridization wrote: Atheism is a religion.

I agree, I see no difference between Atheism, and say, Christianity, besides the obvious. All the same components exist. I don't understand why it is widely regarded as a 'belief system.'

Surreality
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-16 21:09:13 Reply

'A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs' - Wikipedia

Atheism fits the bill.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-16 21:17:20 Reply

But its not though, is it?
Theres no structure or dogma that comes with atheism. All atheism is, is the lack of a theist view. Darwinism and all that jazz most atheists go along with isn't necessarily connected.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 00:50:30 Reply

ain't no way athiesm is a religion
it's the lack of one


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 03:35:08 Reply

At 3/16/10 09:09 PM, Surreality wrote: 'A religion is

Lessee

creation of a supernatural agency or agencies

No, actually exactly th opposite

usually involving devotional and ritual observances

None.

and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs

Atheism doesn't have an inherent moral code, Atheists derive theirs from somewhere else, like I do from Humanism.

Atheism fits the bill.

No, it doesn't. Religion requires belief in supernatural, and practise of devotion and rituals. It also would preferably have a holy figure, holy texts and clergy. Despite contrary claims, we don't worship Darwin, and Origin of the Species isn't a holy text.

If Origin of the Soecies were a holy text, all evolutionary bology would be based on reinterpreting the boook, and only the book, not, for example, doing experiments or questioning the word of Darwin. The fundamental difference between science and theology, is, that a scientist has to question even their own fundamental truths. For the record, parts of Origin of the Species have been, upon closer inspection, found to be wrong. Hence, why there is a whole field of evolutionary biology that produces new texts, based on experiments and deduction. Not reinterpretation.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 12:05:56 Reply

There's many of things to show Atheism isn't a Religion. It's not accepting the assertion a God or gods exist. The reason for being an atheist is diverse and everything else is not related to atheism. It has almost nothing in common with Religion nor fits the criteria.

But there is one thing people sometimes forget to mention.

Atheism is not legally established as a Religion in any nation I'm aware of. But if it is a Religion, then people claiming it's a Religion can build us multi million dollar temples. They can get us Tax exempt status. They can go door to door for us to spread the good word of atheism. They can have the "Atheist holy book" put into the drawers at hotels. They can take all the donations and gifts and make sure we're very, very rich.

But until then, they can keep blowing smoke out their ass.

Patton3
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 17:09:29 Reply

A common misconception I've found is that atheism is a religion. When really, beyond not believing in god, there aren't really a lot of shared beliefs. Hell, I've gone round and round on the politics forum with people I've seen as regulars on here. Sure, we gravitate to many of the same things, acceptance of well grounded scientific theories for example, and many might also define themselves as humanist. Yet there's not the same sort of cohesion as you'd find with Lutherans, Baptists, Jews, etc.


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Nev
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 17:48:20 Reply

At 3/17/10 03:35 AM, JohnnyWang wrote: It also would preferably have a holy figure, holy texts and clergy. Despite contrary claims, we don't worship Darwin, and Origin of the Species isn't a holy text.

But what about Dawkins :P?


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JohnnyWang
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 18:07:02 Reply

At 3/17/10 05:48 PM, Nev wrote:
But what about Dawkins :P?

Still no. There are many who disagree with his rhethoric. Sure, I'm not one of them, I love his and Hitchen's style (though i disagree with Hitchens in some other things). Also, a lot of atheists don't even know Dawkins, or any of them, many people just reach the conclusion by themselves, or by education.

That's another aprt of it, I doubt anyone converted to a religion without learning about it, while many peple reached the conclusion of there not being a god without ever reading a anyone telling them so.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 18:12:04 Reply

At 3/17/10 12:50 AM, SapphireLight wrote: ain't no way athiesm is a religion
it's the lack of one

Thats agnostic.


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JohnnyWang
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-17 18:21:30 Reply

At 3/17/10 06:12 PM, NinjaDonut wrote:
Thats agnostic.

No, it's not.

Actually, the opposite of religious is non-religious. That's more of an umbrella term, covering both Agnosticism, Atheism and non-religious Theism, deism, pantheism etc.

Agnosticism means you believe that the existance of god cannot be proven nor disproved. In that, I agree; we can't beyond doubt prove there is nothing supernatural, but on a practical level, the lack of proof points towards non-existance.


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Surreality
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-18 18:27:52 Reply

At 3/16/10 09:09 PM, Surreality wrote: 'A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency or agencies,

Atheism involves a supernatural theory of creation. The big bang without God would have been a random occurrence with the matter sitting there for an infinite amount of time before finally exploding because of? Magic? Apparently.

usually involving devotional and ritual observances

No.

, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs'

No.


Atheism fits the bill.

Atheism still fits the bill.

JohnnyWang
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-18 18:39:22 Reply

At 3/18/10 06:27 PM, Surreality wrote: The big bang without God would have been a random occurrence with the matter sitting there for an infinite amount of time before finally exploding because of? Magic? Apparently.

No, the scientific answer is "we don't know, let's find out". The religious answer is "pft, obviously god no need for further inquiry".

And it's not supernatural, as the scientists have simply calculated the Big Bang theory by utilizing known natural laws. A simple analogy would be a ball flying over you; you notice the blal when it passes above your head from behind you. You look at the direction the ball is flying, and wherther it's rising or lowering and at what general angle. This way, you can guess where approximately the ball was thrown from. You don't assume it came from out of nowhere and made a 90 degree turn jjust behind your head, and also picked up speed.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-18 18:46:02 Reply

And forgot to add to the end; there is a difference between a religion and faith. Even if we accept your defintion of Atheism having a faith in supernatural, it still doesn't fill many criteria required for a religion. Calling Atheism a religion is just a pointless attempt at a counter-argument and ridicule. Atheism is nothing but the philosophical standpoint that there is no god or gods, period. What instead is used to explain the world is not as such atheism, but the person's own personal beliefs.

There were Atheists before the discovery of evolution, there were atheists before the big bng theory was formulated. One of the earliest recorded atheist thinkers was Epicurous of ancient Greece, and he sure didn't have the modern science backing himm up, just the philosophical argument of the logic inconsistency in belief in gods.


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Nev
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-18 18:49:55 Reply

Atheism doesn't even need to go hand in hand with science though, does it?
It is possible to just believe that there is no God without a care for sciences proofs and theories, right?


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JohnnyWang
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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-19 07:51:56 Reply

Precisely. Recent discoveries, like evolution, the expanding universe (and thus, the ability to postulate backwards), and other astrophysics confirm the view that most religion's view of mankind and the world are not as accurate as they make them out to be. But even before these, there were people who questioned the illogical claims made by religions.

Of course, since history writing is only what was written down, we don't know what people outside the reach of the religions and kingdoms believed. May or may not be, that Atheism has always been somewhat popular, if only implicit atheism; many people didn't believe in any god because it never occured to them that such a conspet might be possible.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-19 13:10:49 Reply

Here's a fun topic for discussion.

You all know the arguments about when people try to assert that atheism is an assertion or acceptance of:
Nazism.
The Big Bang.
Evolution.
Communism.
Abortion.
Liberalism.
etc
etc
etc.

Has anyone ever discussed why people do this? Where it originated from and what's the reason it's being thrown around?

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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-19 16:20:44 Reply

At 3/19/10 01:10 PM, Brick-top wrote: Here's a fun topic for discussion.

You all know the arguments about when people try to assert that atheism is an assertion or acceptance of:
Nazism.
The Big Bang.
Evolution.
Communism.
Abortion.
Liberalism.
etc
etc
etc.

Has anyone ever discussed why people do this? Where it originated from and what's the reason it's being thrown around?

People seem to always say, that atheists are responsible for the Holocaust and shit like that, in fact they were, but so what? Atheism is not like other religions where everybody think and accept the same, and it's not even a religion, it's the absence of religion, well if someone ask you which is your religion you will say you're Atheist, but then you're not declaring it's a religion, you're declaring that you don't believe in any God, well... in my case I say that I am Satanic, and I am a Laveyan Satanist, and according to Laveyan Satanism you're all Satanists too. In fact I accept Evolution, Communism (not the one that exists today), abortion and liberalism, but... so? That means I am evil? About The Big Bang... hmm... I don't know, it stills a theory without any confirmed facts,,, but I don't accept the theory of the magic man that created the universe, but well if you give me evidences, I will not be blind...


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-20 03:57:52 Reply

At 3/19/10 04:20 PM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: People seem to always say, that atheists are responsible for the Holocaust and shit like that, in fact they were, but so what?

How so?

About The Big Bang... hmm... I don't know, it stills a theory without any confirmed facts,,,

Evolution is a theory as well, but " In fact I accept Evolution".

Theory in scientific terms has a different definition to general theory.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-20 04:04:19 Reply

I'm pretty sure Hitler was some twisted version of Christian and his own ideals.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-20 04:45:41 Reply

What Hitler believed is debatable, but he used religion as a tool. The SS had belts reading "Gott Mitt Uns" (God is with us) on them. The holocaust was the logical conclusion of centuries of Christian's hate of Jews and other outsiders.

On other notes political, I was a leftist and a liberal even when I was christian. My ideals remained, my faith faded.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-27 11:29:30 Reply

At 3/20/10 04:45 AM, JohnnyWang wrote: What Hitler believed is debatable, but he used religion as a tool. The SS had belts reading "Gott Mitt Uns" (God is with us) on them. The holocaust was the logical conclusion of centuries of Christian's hate of Jews and other outsiders.

On other notes political, I was a leftist and a liberal even when I was christian. My ideals remained, my faith faded.

The only thing i don't get is that hitler had brown hair and not his perfect blond Aryan hair.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-29 15:31:43 Reply

At 3/27/10 11:29 AM, WhoIsPaul wrote: The only thing i don't get is that hitler had brown hair and not his perfect blond Aryan hair.

Well, most Germans weren't blonde either, but most of them were white and Christian. You could rally them around that flag.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-29 20:12:15 Reply

At 3/29/10 03:31 PM, JohnnyWang wrote:
At 3/27/10 11:29 AM, WhoIsPaul wrote: The only thing i don't get is that hitler had brown hair and not his perfect blond Aryan hair.
Well, most Germans weren't blonde either, but most of them were white and Christian. You could rally them around that flag.

True.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-30 10:26:04 Reply

HOLY SHIT, HOLY SHIT, HOLY SHIT. One problem with that. Nothing can be 'holy', if there's no god. Which there isn't. Finally, an atheist club. Still, aren't us atheists techniclly still practising a 'religion'? Whatever, religion is stupid, there is/are no god(s),and that's it. Although, I still beilive in Karma.... that's not REALLY a 'god'-thing, is it? More of a 'cosmic force'....

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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-30 14:08:25 Reply

At 3/30/10 10:26 AM, ComedyAddict wrote:

:Still, aren't us atheists techniclly still practising a 'religion'?

No.


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-30 16:11:56 Reply

At 3/30/10 10:26 AM, ComedyAddict wrote: HOLY SHIT, HOLY SHIT, HOLY SHIT. One problem with that. Nothing can be 'holy', if there's no god. Which there isn't. Finally, an atheist club. Still, aren't us atheists techniclly still practising a 'religion'? Whatever, religion is stupid, there is/are no god(s),and that's it. Although, I still beilive in Karma.... that's not REALLY a 'god'-thing, is it? More of a 'cosmic force'....

The way you speak, saying there is no God, it sounds very certain, how can you be certain? Care to explain?

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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-30 22:57:57 Reply

"There is no God" is a shorter way of saying "The possibility of there being a god is very low, so there's probably not one at all."

Both are entirely different statements, however.

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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-30 23:09:10 Reply

Hitler was either atheist, but more likely agnostic

Mussolini was however definitely atheist, (despite his politically motivated "conversion" to Christianity)


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Response to The Atheist Army 2010-03-31 05:47:44 Reply

At 3/30/10 11:09 PM, Zoraxe7 wrote: Hitler was either atheist, but more likely agnostic

I trust wikipedia over some guys youtube video

Mussolini was however definitely atheist, (despite his politically motivated "conversion" to Christianity)

Irreligious in his later years, raised Roman Catholic and was atheistic. He also misinterpreted Nietzsche a lot. Funny how a guy who hates nationalists, socialists, and anti-semites becomes the poster boy for them.

Anyway, the point is, the Catholic Church was directly responsible for the blatant anti-semitism in Europe for pretty much thousands of years. So, it became popular to hate and ridicule the Jews and blame them for everything. And like the newest trend it ALWAYS catches on. Religion was a big rather for the murder of 12 million innocent people.