Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 8/21/05 09:28 AM, Dacheater wrote:

This world is but a passing journey and simply a test. We'll be here for 100 or so years, big whoop, paradise is eternal. We are not to be slaves, if he wanted us to be slaves he wouldn't have given us free will. God knew humans would mess up at the start, do you really think someone who is all knowing would not plan everything out?

If God truely knew before the foundation of the world that he would be condemning our species to eternal hellfire on a daily basis.. Then I damn him as he has damned so many of my bretheren.. If he did not know that people would be sent to Hell, and lacks the ability to keep them out of Hell.. then yes it is possible he is good... The only way for God to be good is if he has limitations.. If he is all powerful and all knowing then he is evil...

in the bible doesn't it say thou should belive me for a full life or some stupid shit like that? is he implying that you must belive him?

At 8/21/05 10:29 AM, AmebaMan wrote: Heres a funny little joke, at least in my opinion.

A boy asked from his mother:
"Mom, is god almighty?"
Mother answered: "Yes, my child."
Boy asked another question:
"Can He then create a weight so heavy he can't lift it?"

Yeah, I've heard that one before, in many different froms. My favorite one is on the Simpsons. "Flanders, is it possible Jesus could microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"

But I got an even funnier joke.

A boy walks over to his mother and says,
"Mom, is God black or white?"
"Um, a little of both."
"Mom, is God a man or a woman?"
"Um, a little of both."
"Mom, is God gay or straight?"
"Um, a little of both."
"MOM, I think I've figured out who God is!"
"Who?"
"Michael Jackson!"

At 8/21/05 04:26 PM, Cycloptic_Man wrote: in the bible doesn't it say thou should belive me for a full life or some stupid shit like that? is he implying that you must belive him?

Yes. You actually missed that, because they only say it like a thousand times. If you are so uneducated on the subject that you aren't even sure if the Bible says to believe in God, then prehaps it's best if you did not respond to the subject.

At 8/21/05 02:31 PM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

At 8/21/05 09:28 AM, Dacheater wrote:

This world is but a passing journey and simply a test. We'll be here for 100 or so years, big whoop, paradise is eternal. We are not to be slaves, if he wanted us to be slaves he wouldn't have given us free will. God knew humans would mess up at the start, do you really think someone who is all knowing would not plan everything out?

If God truely knew before the foundation of the world that he would be condemning our species to eternal hellfire on a daily basis.. Then I damn him as he has damned so many of my bretheren.. If he did not know that people would be sent to Hell, and lacks the ability to keep them out of Hell.. then yes it is possible he is good... The only way for God to be good is if he has limitations.. If he is all powerful and all knowing then he is evil...

Here's the thing about free will, it can only be 100% free. For God to control the way you think even by 1% isn't free will. Don't blame God for the evil in the world, because it was made by conscious decisions from free-thinking people, bad as they are. We are being tested on Earth, though war isn't really part of the test, war is a result of many people failing that test, and effecting others in the process. If God was going to control the way we thought like puppets, then what would be the point of our existence, what would be the test to determine if we can get into heaven if it wasn't even us making our own decisions? If we didn't have free will, then basically there would be no real life, instead the world would be nothing more than a stage with every person under God's control and making no actual decisions on their own. We wouldn't be people, we'd be merely performers, not a very appealing existence.

At 8/21/05 05:38 PM, Redbob86 wrote:

Here's the thing about free will, it can only be 100% free. For God to control the way you think even by 1% isn't free will. Don't blame God for the evil in the world, because it was made by conscious decisions from free-thinking people, bad as they are. We are being tested on Earth, though war isn't really part of the test, war is a result of many people failing that test, and effecting others in the process. If God was going to control the way we thought like puppets, then what would be the point of our existence, what would be the test to determine if we can get into heaven if it wasn't even us making our own decisions? If we didn't have free will, then basically there would be no real life, instead the world would be nothing more than a stage with every person under God's control and making no actual decisions on their own. We wouldn't be people, we'd be merely performers, not a very appealing existence.

Your not getting what Im saying.. The implixcation that God is all powerul means he could have creatd man or the universe in any way shapee or form.. Even those that are imppossible to imagine.... This he could have created the world in a way that everyone had 100% free will and there was no evil... and if this is a "test" as you say.. and failure means you suffer for eternity ..thats pretty fuckred up of him.. I would perfer he hadnt created me to begin with... I tell you what I love everyone in this world enought that I wouldnt allow a single one of them to suffer for eternity if it was in my power.. Guess I love em more than God does.. Hell Id undo em before Id let em suffer for eternity...

No, you are missing what I am saying. Free will is about choice, and if you can only choose the good things, then there really is no true choice because you will choose this one thing every time. If that were to happen, then there would be no need for heaven. And as for the people in hell, keep in mind that most people get into heaven, most people are by nature good-willing. God isn't some asshole looking for any excuse he can to send you to hell, if he did, then we'd be in hell right now. Only the evil go to hell, there are no technicalities, there are no loop holes, and there are no alternative deals, it's a straight-out question of your morality. The way your soul is judged in the afterlife is nothing like the way you are judged in a courtroom, there is only the truth, no bullshit loopholes or deals or anything like that. And there is nothing left out, God knows EVERYTHING you ever did, said, or thought. And if you are truly evil, sorry for you pal, shouldn't have killed that person.

Complete free will and Heaven contradict eachother sometimes in terms of what is right decision making. You basically cannot have one without the other.

So basically here are your options.

1. Everybody is good to eachother and isn't capable of a single evil thought, but then there is no test, and thus no Heaven.

2. There is free will, and the world is a test, people are capable of both good and evil and it's all a matter of choices, but if you pass you get to go to Heaven for all eternity.

I'd take option #2. I haven't been evil so far in my life, other fuckers may have been, but that's their problem. I've got complete free will, and I used it to make good choices up to this point, and if I were to drop dead right now, I'd get a ticket to paradise. Option #2 has worked for me so far, as I'm sure it's worked for most of you, seeing as how none of you have killed anybody or anything like that. It's all a simple matter of choices.

At 8/21/05 11:49 PM, Redbob86 wrote: No, you are missing what I am saying. Free will is about choice, and if you can only choose the good things, then there really is no true choice because you will choose this one thing every time. If that were to happen, then there would be no need for heaven.

In Heavan I assume people have freewill..and I assume there is no suffering...... If God knew before the foundation of the world which people wopld go to Heavan and which wouldn't.. Why noit skip all the opain and suffering and just create the wounds he knew would maek it into heavan in heavan.... That way there would be no need for any to suffer ever!

:And as for the people in hell, keep in mind that most people get into heaven, most people are by nature good-willing. God isn't some asshole looking for any excuse he can to send you to hell, if he did, then we'd be in hell right now. Only the evil go to hell, there are no technicalities, there are no loop holes, and there are no alternative deals, it's a straight-out question of your morality. The way your soul is judged in the afterlife is nothing like the way you are judged in a courtroom, there is only the truth, no bullshit loopholes or deals or anything like that. And there is nothing left out, God knows EVERYTHING you ever did, said, or thought. And if you are truly evil, sorry for you pal, shouldn't have killed that person.

Well I consider allowing anyone to suffer for eternity to be an asshole thing... So if he's killed 1'000 people.. At least their deaths we're instant.... HE does not deserve to suffer for eternity for it.. no one does! I would rather seee them unmade.. why cant God just do that? Is their really a need to punish them? The reason we punish people is so that they will reform.. If your punished for eternity you never have a chance to reform.. So really its more senseless pain... I would have them uncreated, or at the very most put in some form of painles incarciration...

Complete free will and Heaven contradict eachother sometimes in terms of what is right decision making. You basically cannot have one without the other.

So basically here are your options.

1. Everybody is good to eachother and isn't capable of a single evil thought, but then there is no test, and thus no Heaven.

2. There is free will, and the world is a test, people are capable of both good and evil and it's all a matter of choices, but if you pass you get to go to Heaven for all eternity.

I'd take option #2. I haven't been evil so far in my life, other fuckers may have been, but that's their problem. I've got complete free will, and I used it to make good choices up to this point, and if I were to drop dead right now, I'd get a ticket to paradise. Option #2 has worked for me so far, as I'm sure it's worked for most of you, seeing as how none of you have killed anybody or anything like that. It's all a simple matter of choices.

I have friends.... Friends that have commited petty sins.. Things that I dont consider immoral.... I myself am atheist..... You are telling me that your God would have me burn for all eternity forr this... You may only care about what happens to the individual.. But I care about everyone.. I would have no one! no matter what their sin! be tortured for eternity!

At 8/4/05 11:39 AM, PhysicsMafia wrote:

:: god gave man free will to do as he pleased, it also says that in the bible.

While that is true, there are instances recorded in the Bilie where God hijacks the free will of man and manipulates him into doing his bidding (see Exodus- God "Hardening Pharoh's heart). Seeing things like this makes me wonder if the Judeo-Christian religion truly believes in free will or is simply in denial of the fact that they are puppets of the god (real or imagined) that they serve.

BTW: good to be back. Punisher has returned!

Correction: bile= Bible

At 8/4/05 12:05 PM, PhysicsMafia wrote: and that is why u are not god......

gods true crime?, can an omnipotent being be acused of a crime?theres not really anyone to be held accountable to is there.

heres an example, a parable if u like..

one day ur out on ur bike and u fall off, cut urself up and are in general pretty sore.now years on ur litte brother is learning to ride his bike, do u say no he can never learn because he may hurt himself or do u offer words of advice and encouragement but let him learn anyway.

now in this case:

you = god
little brother = humanity
bike = free will and ability to sin
advice = bible

You know I don't even believe in religion, or the existance of a god for that matter. But, this guy has made a very good point.

At 8/17/05 11:21 PM, Matomic wrote:

I apologize for the late reply...I was banned.

THE ANSWER TO THE TIME THING:

nitroxide, don't argue with things you don't understand!

Why?God is all merciful and all loving wouldnt he be proud of me that i was able to think outside the box and question things that just dont add up.That i dint blend right into the conventional beliefs of society, he gave me free thought right?.Wouldnt he take pride in the fact that my thirst for knowledge drives me to seek answers.Thats one of the many faults in society nowadays for example people dont understand government & politics so they dont argue they dont even question it?Thats not right.

You, and the rest of creation, being able to only see only ONE "moving" point in time (with only a vauge memory of the past), have no idea about the true nature of time. God, having created time, lives outside of it. This of course means he knows absolutley everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen. BUT the way I like to think of time is NOT as a one dimentional TIMELINE which is history as we know it, but as infinetley "expanding."

Your saying that this is the way you like to see it.Do you know this is the way god sees it?All im going by is by what church has told me(When i used to go)and by what the bible says...and the way it comes across is that he sees all and knows all before it happens...which completely supports my statement.What your talking about is a probability and it doesnt really counter my statement its just another way of looking at time.

Allow me to explain. let's say you wake up tommorow and decide to hit your alarm clock. You could hit it in X place, or you use a slightly different motion and hit it one atom to the left of X. So basically, for every infinitesimal amount of time, there are INFINITE probabilities/possibilities. Whichever one you FREELY choose, God will know. So God knows absolutely EVERY singe possibility of the way the world could run. NOBODY can comprehend the sheer, staggering level of infinity that is involved with knowing INFINITE probabilities for every INFINITE possible moment. That is, nobody but God.

A highly unlikely probability...
God knows every moment of your life before birth...MOMENTS exact events that will occur in your life so the decisions made to get to that event were long predetermined.
::Will furnish bible quotes upon request::

Right now, you are changing that infinity of time; if you choose to move your thumb slightly, that has created another infinite probability that the simple, one dimensional timeline has "gone through."

Woah!!!!Your freakin blowin my mind man.....

I have explained this the best I can.
Now of course it is impossible to prove all this, but it is the most likely theory I have.

Exactly.

Please tell me if you understand, and what you think about it.

Its a theory i mean i dont even believe in god so i cant really say i like it but i do get were your coming from.

God DAG.... i mean damn

I was hoping AFFLIXION had a response for me by the time i got back from my ban...

*patiently awaits*

This world is but a passing journey and simply a test. We'll be here for 100 or so years, big whoop, paradise is eternal.

Then you would get bored as *ahem* hell. Because there are only a certain amount of things you can do, and if you count every single one of the, lets call it 10 billion things, well you would do every single one of them to the point of boredom. Then once that is over you would begin again. Repeat again. And again, x 1000. And repeat the thousand times x 10000, and so on. No, really heaven and hell would both be hell, and the only reason the idea was formulated was because people can't seem to imagine having absolutely nothing remain of yourself.

Um, you can't get bored of heaven.

What's annoying is how no matter how many times these religious threads sink to the bottom of the page, there is always some 14-year-old moron who feels the need to bring them all back up with "GOD IS EVIL, FUCK RELIGION!"

And you guys wonder why nobody listens to athiests. It's hard to convince people that you don't need religion to be a good person when you don't even have the basic respect to not insult a person's deepest beliefs.

I also think that this is the reason so many people are turning to the conservatives, even if they have the biggest dumbfuck for a president. Nobody wants to hear a party that seems to have a growing number of people insult religion, and that gets on people's nerves, so they go to the other party. I'm hoping the democrats win the next election, but it's not gonna be easy if you run around bashing religion. Think logically, most of the country believes in religion in one form or another, if you want their votes then don't go around insulting what they believe in.

At 8/23/05 05:10 AM, Redbob86 wrote: Um, you can't get bored of heaven.

Okay, please explain how you manage to stay amused. I genuinely mean this, I want to know, it is not meant to be offensive.

At 8/23/05 05:39 AM, Maniac_13 wrote:

At 8/23/05 05:10 AM, Redbob86 wrote: Um, you can't get bored of heaven.

Okay, please explain how you manage to stay amused. I genuinely mean this, I want to know, it is not meant to be offensive.

It's supposed to be a eutopia, infinite joy, things you cannot even imagine. So I can't describe it. And thank you for stating you are trying not to be offensive, I appreciate that.

Ahh, Heaven the imaginary place where people niaevely (or how ever you spell it)
think they go when they die. Is it possible that there is
no heaven, but still some creator who doesn't give a sh*t
about us because to him (her or whatever) we are just
some unfinished flash project thet he or whatever got bored with?

Sorry, I only read a few of the beggining posts.

God did do somthing about it. Noas ark. It rained 40 days and 40 nights Because there was so much war at the time.

10 comandments. That was to help us along the way.

Wow... I normally find these bbs jihads, pretentious reverrents (religious peeps) vs. pretentious atheists, amusing, but this one is just retarded... blah, I'll post anyway... religion is bull. explain the foundation of your conviction if you disagree...

At 8/23/05 05:10 AM, Redbob86 wrote: What's annoying is how no matter how many times these religious threads sink to the bottom of the page, there is always some 14-year-old moron who feels the need to bring them all back up with "GOD IS EVIL, FUCK RELIGION!"

Dont catergorize all atheist and put them in the same pool.I went to church i did my first communion and confirmation i was a happy,young,naive believer for some period of time but you truely have to open your eyes at some point and see the world for the chaotic overload that it is.I know theres atheist out there that have never even read the bible as a atheist maybe they need to(Know your enemy right?).Theres those that hate church just because there forced to go on a lazy sunday morning,but thats absolute ignorance.

And you guys wonder why nobody listens to athiests. It's hard to convince people that you don't need religion to be a good person when you don't even have the basic respect to not insult a person's deepest beliefs.

I love all man...
and with that love comes the desire to free them from darkness.I see my people(everyone)in a cycle of absolute fear and loneliness which derives from the church,and it hurts so i dont insult their religion but i cannot respect it...because it is evil.

I also think that this is the reason so many people are turning to the conservatives, even if they have the biggest dumbfuck for a president. Nobody wants to hear a party that seems to have a growing number of people insult religion, and that gets on people's nerves, so they go to the other party. I'm hoping the democrats win the next election, but it's not gonna be easy if you run around bashing religion. Think logically, most of the country believes in religion in one form or another, if you want their votes then don't go around insulting what they believe in.

Our current government is a complete joke,ireally cant get into all this because im pretty sure that in time(I can only dream)the revolution will come and when we are freed from this disgusting,oppressive,and deceitful government we will be freed of all religion as well.

Ahh fuck it dont even take my post into consideration i was just trying to bring this thread back up...

Ill leave you with one of my favorite Redbob86 quotes:

"GOD IS EVIL, FUCK RELIGION!"- Redbob86

I'll bottom line my stance

real or not it's man who is the problem

the flaws and greed of humanity currupts anything that comes our way from above or below or on our level

At 8/24/05 01:58 AM, TheReveiwer wrote:

real or not it's man who is the problem

I agree.
"Man is evil capable of nothing but destruction"-POTA

the flaws and greed of humanity currupts anything that comes our way from above or below or on our level

Ok...but just for arguements sake arent we not made in the image of god?If humanity does corrupt everything where does that derive from?For such greed to be in our nature it must have spawned from our maker.

The arguement hear isnt about religion,the church,atheism,or questioning his existence it is to determine wether he is evil...and i say yes.His natural malovence is displayed through out everyday events that i need not mention.Look at our world.Is this what the all loving one invisioned for his children?

Questions:
If god is all merciful,why are we born with Birth (original) sin?Why are we already doomed?Why are we paying for the sins of long ago?

Original Sin standeth not in the following of Adam, (as the Pelagians do vainly talk;) but it is the fault and corruption of the Nature of every man, that naturally is engendered of the offspring of Adam; whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness, and is of his own nature inclined to evil, so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the Spirit; and therefore in every person born into this world, it deserveth God's wrath and damnation

and therefore in every person born into this world, it deserveth God's wrath and damnation Damn thats vengeful.Why o merciful one?

Could it be because he is evil...?

Satan was the first to cry 'Know Thyself' to Man(Also used by jesus...Hhmmm?).Could it be that we need to see our true nature...Evil?If god is all powerful but everyday their is murder,corruption,rapes,thefts and many more vile acts then does that mean that satan is winning?Is satan the more powerful deity?Or is he the only one?Are they one in the same?

The questions keep piling on but there will never be answers...which leaves me tortured and for this he is truly evil.God is ignorant and evil, to create such a flawed creation and give pain to his creations.

WOW BILLYTHEREADPONI U JUST WERE AWARDED DUMBEST QUESTION OF THE YEAR...

At 8/24/05 01:58 AM, TheReveiwer wrote: I'll bottom line my stance

real or not it's man who is the problem

the flaws and greed of humanity currupts anything that comes our way from above or below or on our level

Flaws? Is that what you call them? These primal instincts of greed and selfishness are the reason we climbed the food chain to the top! Greed motivated our ancestors to go on a genocidal rampage against the other hominids and take thier place as the dominant species on this planet. Without it, we would still be the helpless,little rodent's scurrying away from preditors seeking to snap us up for lunch.

God isn't evil, man has free will and man choose to kill other man that we do sir.

if i were chirstian, id be all like "I believe in god, and only satan is evil" but im not christian.... or anything believing in one god, i believe in gods and goddesses....

Calling redbob...calling Thereviewer...calling afflixion....

I thought we were here to debate no responses...
Then its settled...

GOD is EVIL.

from now on ill just wiew god as a computer with a virus.
that makes his programs mess up.

U ARE A FUKN RETARD TO SAY THAT HES EVIL U WOULDNT BE HERE IF IT WASNT FOR HIM U BITCH HE CAN TAKE UR LIKE OR ANYONES RIGHT NOW SO SHUT UP!