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At 8/31/05 12:23 AM, Redbob86 wrote: I didn't see your stupid reply. I don't live at this board. And frankly, why the hell should I justify myself to some shitforbrains who thinks everything is fucked up? I'm not here to seek your goddamn approval. Seriously, you're not hard to figure out, you're one of those misery types that listens to too much metal and often quotes song lyrics. You think the shit you say is somehow unique? Shitheads like you come a dime a dozen.

How Cristian like...

Lucky for me im not a Cristian...So....

Your an ignorant,hick,fool,a diseased and foul mouthed beast whose only aspiration in life is to bang his sister as she comes out the shower....blah...blah..blah...Flame flame flame...etc.

These words dont mean shit give me a post that matters speak what you know instead of coming of like a dick.that shit gets you know respect.

I dont give a jack shit what you think neither i was trying to see if you actually had a brain in your head and could reply to a post in a possitive and mature way but i guess i expected to much in a follower of the divine word....who should very well damn know he has just sinned against his fellow man.

At 8/31/05 01:05 AM, nitroxide wrote:

At 8/30/05 07:06 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

At 8/30/05 06:01 AM, nitroxide wrote:

Ok i guess you dont get my point up until those fifteen years i was completely faithful i was one of his own but he dint do nothing for me.So i felt betrayed.

And you don't see the selfishness of your statement?
"but he dint do nothing for me"

Give me one passage were it speaks of lucifer prior to the betrayal?

Satan was created an angel. Ezekiel 28:12-14

He was highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and status, and decided he wanted to sit on a throne above that of God (Isaiah 14:13-14; Ezekiel 28:15; 1 Timothy 3:6).

You just quoted them. If Lucifer was the most elaborate angel created, it stands to reason that God would have been pleased initially.

Where does it speak of the the years of servitude?

It doesn't, however i doubt that Lucifer turned the instant he was created.

So war broke out...
war

3: an active struggle between competing entities; "a price war"; "a war of wits"; "diplomatic warfare" [syn: warfare] 4: a concerted campaign to end something that is injurious; "the war on poverty"; "the war against crime" v : make or wage war [ant: make peace]

He had followers that also believed in him.You dont know what the hell was going on up there.War is evil right?War was born in heaven a kingdom so perfect yet corruption still seeped through...Now sure you will say it was as a result of satan but they went into battle and god allowed his creations to fight amongst eachother having full power to stop it before it even ever happened...evil.

War is not evil. Lucifer was the aggressor in his attempted coup. War was a necessary defense for the kingdom of heaven.

Ok...so then its common knowledge he is EVIL.He allows as you said "allows"(Great in justicies)lucifer to praye and play with the minds of men in order to test us.Evil.If he gave him freewill then with full knowledge that through his betrayal sin would enter the world then he is evil for "allowing" sin to taint man.

God allowed Lucifer to continue tempting man because if he didn't mans fate would already be sealed. Man is still given the opportunity to choose between Gods Redemption and Lucifers punishment.

and if lucifer used freewill to commit this sin freewill then leads to evil and its gods gift...So god is evil.

Freewill does not lead to evil. 2/3 of the angels choose to remain with God of their own freewill.

Why didn't God just destroy Satan?

Because sin had entered the world, and into the very nature of man through adams transgression, then for god to destroy Satan, he would also have had to destroy the man he loved. But god had a better way. A way of Redemption.

And Christ the Redeemer was on his way !

Sound like a blockbuster hit...*pops some popcorn*
I love these badass redemption movies.

Oh come one hes fucking god snap your fingers Boom!!!One...2....3....its all over everything is perfect....Why play these games...*Cough*evil *cough*

You just gave your example of what YOU would do if YOU were God. And because God's plan isn't remotely like YOURS you deem him as evil.
Thankfully, God's plan is high above the realm of the selfish.

Well let it be...

But if im selfish for not casting my own son into a life of resentment from the masses that will ultimutely lead to his savage death all will knowing that it will not do any good....well then im selfish...but hes evil,for doing so.Being selfish is not the only type of sin.

Again you display what YOU would have done if YOU were God.
You probably should understand what evil is before accusing God of being something hes not.
ALL evil comes from selfishness and by all means , feel free to test this.

I have other problems does he care about those.

Sure. Everyone has problems. There are 2 types - those that are unavoidable and those which are brought on ourselves. But regardless, instead of cursing God for your problems, you should praise him. That is what seperates those with true faith from those who don't.

Hey even jesus was guilty of blaspehemy in his time...time passes,religions change and whose to say christiany or catholism or any of these religions of our time will exist in the distant future.

Jesus never sinned and you know the bible says God shall reign forever.

Alot of your arguements seem to be come from blind faith and its gonna be really hard to get through to you...


No the qoute means that man needs to make false higher deities in order to maintain civil and moral order...against our very nature.

I know what the quote implied.
"Man needs" & "Against our very nature" contradict one another.

At 8/31/05 01:20 AM, nitroxide wrote:

At 8/30/05 07:06 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

At 8/30/05 06:01 AM, nitroxide wrote:

At 8/30/05 05:19 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

We are not born knowing of god therefore he was made by man not before man.

God is, was and always will be. He is the creator, not the created.
Mans selfish desire for knowledge was the first sin of mankind.
The extent of Mans knowledge is far from the level of Gods.

God’s Original Design for Man – To live out of revelation knowledge.

God designed man to be a daily recipient of revelation knowledge. In the Garden of Eden, man walked and talked with God. Adam and Eve were receiving revelation knowledge daily from Almighty God.

Satan’s Temptation - That man descend to reasoned knowledge.

Satan entered God’s perfect plan with a temptation: Man could become like God,through knowledge that god was trying to hog because he only wanted man to know what he allowed him to know keeping him ignorant and opressed through knowledge we gain insight,we see the lies,and deception,and hypocrocy in his word
and he fears this...he needs to keep the truth of life to himself and for this he is evil...

I wonder if these were the exact words Lucifer used to deceive Eve.
He told Eve is she ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge she would obtain the knowledge and be like God.
How'd that work out by the way? Feeling Godlike today are you? Still have all those problems you mentioned earlier?
You've basically come to the point where you view God as evil and Satan as good.

I feel a theme in my post...Could it be evil...

Since your posts have been self-centered for the most part, I'd say Yes.

No wonder he wants to portray knowledge outside his own widom as evil...

The only knowledge outside of Gods is selfishness.

Moreover, man soon learned that by living out of reason or knowledge he is not able to fulfill God’s purposes for his life, because man’s thoughts are not God’s thoughts, nor are man’s ways God’s ways. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are God’s thoughts higher than man’s thoughts (Isa. 55:9). Man was told not to depend upon his own thoughts (Prov. 3:5)

Is it not evil to force man to go against his very nature?

Man is not forced, freewill.
Man inherited a selfish (evil) nature from Lucifers deception not from God.

God created us in his owm image and man has reciprocated by murdering his innocent son, and continuing to betray him with sin and selfish evil.

No..... we have reciprocated his very image, which evil...DAMN i guess voltaire is to deep for you it seems to be going right over your head.

You meant another "who made who" ac/dc meaningless quote, I know.
I meant the truth.

Or maybe yes....We killed his son and he did...he was the one the that sent him to earth to die...either way we have shown our evil as he has...his image is reciprocated...GET IT.

Sending his son to die wasn't evil - the alternative would be to condemn mankind for all time.

All he asks is your love and unselfish devotion.

*Cough*Blind faith.*cough*

As if that were a bad thing or something.
"Blessed is he who has not seen and still believes"

I apologize in advace for the lack of biblical knowledge in my post...<sarcasm>(just in case its over your head).

Knowledge is Power.

Quests for power is selfishly evil and ultimately end in destruction

Lucifer has always used the promise/temptation of forbidden knowledge to deceive.

It is the key

Jesus

It is truth

The Bible

And will expose all lies

Amen

At 8/30/05 11:05 PM, lollerskaters wrote:

At 8/30/05 08:45 PM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

He could have made a world where there were no problems and we had freewill.. Again it seems impossible but he is supposed to be capable of that... So the only real rreason for us to suffer if he exists is that he wants us to suffer....

Then what's the point of living if everything is perfect? We would lie around and do nothing because weed would need to better ourselves. Heaven is supposed to be your reward for living a good live. If it were perfect it'd be to easy.

Okay rewarding the good im fine with... But punishing the bad for eternity Im not.. and Ill never like anyone who would alow that..... and he could make a world where we would bbetter ourselves, and get many things acomplished without the need for us to suffer, etc.. remember ALL POWERFUL

of course god is evil. who gets away with killin over 10000000 people

At 8/31/05 01:07 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

Freewill. Man gets to choose whether to follow God or Lucifer.

he could have given us freewill withou it correct? I am he is all powerful right?

That is a extremely selfish reason. YOU have to have proof (knowledge) of God for YOUR own satisfaction in order to give YOUR devotion to God.
It doesn't work like that, its a matter of faith.

Its not fucking selfish its logical... I make observation, I listen to the evidence provided by others, and I make my judgment from that.... Your whole FAITH thing leaves you on the same level as every other religion.. I guess for you to believe in the Hindu gods you would need faith in them... how selfish of you that is!

The bible clearly states that sin does not come from God.
You seem to think that God owes you an explaination of his entire master plan when in reality you deserve eternal punishment.

Sin does come from God if he is real, because everything comes from God if he is real
... in fact everything is caused by God if he is real.. Because no matter what it is if you follow it back far enough you get to him..... I desrve eternal punishment for askingquestions and making observations?? Damn your God is ppetty.. I guess Im nicier than he is.. I wouldnt allow someone to suffer for eternity no matterwhat they did.. and he is supposed to be "infinitely forgiving" I guess eternity isnt enough time for him to for give someone in....

Because Jesus was the only one who was pure.
The bible says" the wages of sin is death" so once someone sins they are destined to die. However Jesus never sinned, not even once. So by killing him, they put to death someone who did not deserve the wages of sin. And his wrongful death and innocence was enough to pay for the entire sins of the world and is the only way man can redeem himself in the eyes of God.

So two wrongs did make a right??? but in rebutal to that.. there was no real need for Jesus to die.. God could have given us the benefits without his son dieng and he knew the results of his son comeing to earth so it was all pointless...

I answered the first part above.
It was God's will that Jesus be put to death, out of his love for US.
See, Lucifer thought along the same lines that killing Jesus would be a devestating blow to God, but it was in fact the opposite effect. It was Lucifers defeat in his quest to condemn humanity. Thats why the mere name of Jesus has power over Satan.

and god couldnt have stoped lucifer's plans without sending his son to die?

At 8/31/05 06:40 AM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

At 8/30/05 11:05 PM, lollerskaters wrote:

At 8/30/05 08:45 PM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

Okay rewarding the good im fine with... But punishing the bad for eternity Im not.. and Ill never like anyone who would alow that..... and he could make a world where we would bbetter ourselves, and get many things acomplished without the need for us to suffer, etc.. remember ALL POWERFUL

He already made a world without suffering and man chose to suffer instead and still chooses to suffer by disobeying and defying God.
What part of this dont you understand?

At 8/31/05 01:12 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

He did make such a world of no problems with freewill. It was called the garden of Eden. Man was meant to live forever without disease and suffering.
The only reason mankind suffers is because he chose to do so long ago and continues to do so today.

Okay if I create sojething, and I know before hand what it is going to do, then it was my intent for it to do that, or else I would have created somthing else... Upon creating Adam and Eve god knew they would sin against him, so it was his intent for them to do so.. If he did not want there to be sin he would have created steve and michelle.. for example.... because he knew when he created steve and michelle that they would not eat f the forbidden fruit.

At 8/4/05 11:33 AM, billytheradponi wrote: I know you will all probably hate me for this, but I have to say that I believe God (you know the Christian one) after learning about him in RS (hours of bordem) I have come to believe he is evil...
Man is evil, he is greedy, savage and never thinks before he acts, the Bible also states that man is an image through God (or something like that) so God is evil too. He also has powers over Earth doesn't he? Well why does he let us continue to slaughter each other, the same goes for the other Gods (that have the power to stop our killing) why don't they stop it, because there evil. Sorry to say it, but they are my views and if anyone wants to argue you can email me or talk on msn here:billytheradponi@hotmail.com

completely wrong, you cant learn properly about god (if you belive in him or dont belive in him) from RS. and the reason god doesnt stop the killing is because he gives free will which means he wont stop us. :)

Why equate human gender, emotions and morals with something that's supposed to be a higher being beyond our comprehension?

At 8/31/05 02:56 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote: ALL evil comes from selfishness and by all means , feel free to test this.

You call me selfish for needing evidence and observable data... By that logic your selfish for requiring faith before you would believe in the hindu gods (example) So therefore you are by your own definitions evil.. and unles you begin immediatly to have faith in every single religion then you are being selfish, and again using your logic, evil, and you will have no chance at gaining the heaven in which you believe......

At 8/31/05 04:16 PM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

At 8/31/05 01:07 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

Freewill. Man gets to choose whether to follow God or Lucifer.

he could have given us freewill withou it correct? I am he is all powerful right?

Could have would have should have etc. There are 2 forces good and evil - you get to take your pick between them. God is all powerful and he decded to do things his way.

That is a extremely selfish reason. YOU have to have proof (knowledge) of God for YOUR own satisfaction in order to give YOUR devotion to God.
It doesn't work like that, its a matter of faith.

Its not fucking selfish its logical... I make observation, I listen to the evidence provided by others, and I make my judgment from that.... Your whole FAITH thing leaves you on the same level as every other religion.. I guess for you to believe in the Hindu gods you would need faith in them... how selfish of you that is!

Yours is selfish logic. In fact you used the word "I" three times in your first sentence which conveys a "me me me" mentality. You will never begin to understand Christianity with selfish logic because that is Lucifers way of thinking.

The bible clearly states that sin does not come from God.
You seem to think that God owes you an explaination of his entire master plan when in reality you deserve eternal punishment.

Sin does come from God if he is real, because everything comes from God if he is real
... in fact everything is caused by God if he is real.. Because no matter what it is if you follow it back far enough you get to him..... I desrve eternal punishment for askingquestions and making observations?? Damn your God is ppetty.. I guess Im nicier than he is.. I wouldnt allow someone to suffer for eternity no matterwhat they did.. and he is supposed to be "infinitely forgiving" I guess eternity isnt enough time for him to for give someone in....

No, you don't deserve punishment for asking questions, all men deserve eternal punishment when they side with Lucifer in his attempt to overthrow God. When you sin thats what you are doing.
Hell is eternal damnation, not a prison term where you can get out for good behavior.
Those in hell have chosen to go there, there hearts have already been set against God and would not change.

Because Jesus was the only one who was pure.
The bible says" the wages of sin is death" so once someone sins they are destined to die. However Jesus never sinned, not even once. So by killing him, they put to death someone who did not deserve the wages of sin. And his wrongful death and innocence was enough to pay for the entire sins of the world and is the only way man can redeem himself in the eyes of God.

So two wrongs did make a right??? but in rebutal to that.. there was no real need for Jesus to die.. God could have given us the benefits without his son dieng and he knew the results of his son comeing to earth so it was all pointless...

Benefits without the sacrifice? Hmmm.. That would go against God's own law.
A price had to be paid for the salvation of man.

I answered the first part above.
It was God's will that Jesus be put to death, out of his love for US.
See, Lucifer thought along the same lines that killing Jesus would be a devestating blow to God, but it was in fact the opposite effect. It was Lucifers defeat in his quest to condemn humanity. Thats why the mere name of Jesus has power over Satan.

and god couldnt have stoped lucifer's plans without sending his son to die?

Yes he could have. Jesus could have even. But in doing so, ALL mankind would have had no chance for redemption. He did it his way for our sakes.

At 8/31/05 04:32 PM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

At 8/31/05 02:56 AM, ScrunchMuppet wrote: ALL evil comes from selfishness and by all means , feel free to test this.

You call me selfish for needing evidence and observable data... By that logic your selfish for requiring faith before you would believe in the hindu gods (example) So therefore you are by your own definitions evil.. and unles you begin immediatly to have faith in every single religion then you are being selfish, and again using your logic, evil, and you will have no chance at gaining the heaven in which you believe......

Faith is a quality not a tangible thing and has nothing to do with selfcenteredness.
I said you were being selfcentered by your statements. They give it away. If your a Star Wars fan its equal to : Your thoughts betray you.
For example your fist sentence there:
"You call me selfish for needing evidence..." = "I need evidence..." = "I need" = selfcentered

Bible says Adam had some evil in himself when the snake told him to eat the apple and that spread causing all this. Curse you forbidden tree, it must've been pretty tasty to screw the future world from any hope.. >.>

granted i'm not a christian or any religion (thinkin about goin buddhist) but i think everyone excpects to much of god. To be honest i don't think he's as powerful as people say. Like for instance i belive he didn't create the universe i think he mearly found it and decided to give life to the planet.

Its not gods fault if wars happen in my opinion. He can only reward people for not starting these wars. I mean he cant help it if theres bad people in the world but he can help it if theres bad people in heaven or nirvana or whatever it is.

Which leads me to my philosophy on life. Just be a good person and you will be rewarded in the end. I don't think god has specific guide lines as to what he wants you to do i think he just wants you to be a good person and not do bad things i mean i dont think god would care about silly things like worshipping other gods cos thats not fair. I think god would be a pretty cool guy/girl/other and.

I mean we know whats good and bad and we dont need people to tell us these things

At 8/31/05 05:24 PM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

Faith is a quality not a tangible thing and has nothing to do with selfcenteredness.
I said you were being selfcentered by your statements. They give it away. If your a Star Wars fan its equal to : Your thoughts betray you.
For example your fist sentence there:
"You call me selfish for needing evidence..." = "I need evidence..." = "I need" = selfcentered

Okay before I reply to anything else of yours answer me this... what does it take to make you believe in something, and why is it that you do good?

At 8/31/05 06:09 PM, psychedelic_dude wrote: granted i'm not a christian or any religion (thinkin about goin buddhist) but i think everyone excpects to much of god. To be honest i don't think he's as powerful as people say. Like for instance i belive he didn't create the universe i think he mearly found it and decided to give life to the planet.

If God has limitations then it is possible that he is good........... If he and Satan are equals and he did not create Satan or if he doid not ewhat choices Sata would make, and he did not know what choices man would make, and to this day he does not know the choices men will make.. then he may be good.. What I am saying is that if God is not all knowing, and all powerful then he can be good..

At 8/31/05 04:20 PM, ScaryDeadGirl wrote: Why equate human gender, emotions and morals with something that's supposed to be a higher being beyond our comprehension?

Because we have freewill given to us by god maybe it was for this purpose.

At 8/31/05 06:09 PM, psychedelic_dude wrote:

Just be a good person and you will be rewarded in the end. I don't think god has specific guide lines as to what he wants you to do i think he just wants you to be a good person and not do bad things i mean i dont think god would care about silly things like worshipping other gods cos thats not fair.

Unfortunately good works alone doesn't cut it, its only half of the equation.
If you have never ever sinned then yes just being "good" would be enough but even 1 sin is enough to cancel all good works and condemn you.

The worship of other gods is a big deal to God and is the whole basis of Lucifers selfish fall from grace.

At 8/31/05 06:32 PM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

At 8/31/05 05:24 PM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

Okay before I reply to anything else of yours answer me this... what does it take to make you believe in something, and why is it that you do good?

Nothing "makes" me believe in anything. It is personal convictions and choice.
Its the same for doing good.

God si teh little kid with toys. If God wished for us to worship him without sin, he wouldn't have made that god forsaken tree of life. Or using his omnipotence, he would have realized what the snake was tryign to do, buuuttttt noooo. He wanted us to choose, wanted to see what would arise. Sounds like "Godly-Voyeurism" if you ask me. I mean what kind of sick fuck would even bear to watch atrocities as that that goes on the world today. What happened to the god that would actively watch over his children, actively crush those who got ahead in the world? Has he gotten a bit lazy?

At 8/31/05 07:19 PM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

Nothing "makes" me believe in anything. It is personal convictions and choice.
Its the same for doing good.

Well the term "personal" means your doing it for your own reasons.. that is being pretty selfish.... Also you said that nothing "makes" you believe in anything.. I guess what you mean is that you believe in what you WANT to believe... So now its all about what you WANT awful selfish huh? also when you do good things for others Im guessing its because you WANTED to... and if you follow God its because you WANT to, or beacause you dont WANT to go to Hell, or because you WANT to go to heaven... and wants are selfish things and you said selfishness is the root of sin.. so I guess your beyond redemption ... because the only way you can be saved is if you WANT to eneter heaven... you said it yourself that you had to choose where you want to go and since people have toWANT to go to heaven to go to Heaven it looks like no one is going because selfidhens is the root of all evil.. Damn we're all screwed then huh?

At 8/31/05 06:37 PM, nitroxide wrote: Because we have freewill given to us by god maybe it was for this purpose.

You didn't read what i said.
It's beyond our comprehension.
You're saying God made us to call him a "he" and apply human emotions like hate and love to "him". I'm saying if there is a God it's far beyond any emotion or thought we could possibly understand. This includes being beyond the very human idea of good and evil.

At 8/31/05 07:28 PM, TheMartyr18 wrote:

At 8/31/05 07:19 PM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

Nothing "makes" me believe in anything. It is personal convictions and choice.
Its the same for doing good.

Well the term "personal" means your doing it for your own reasons.. that is being pretty selfish....

Lol, no - you seem to misinterpret everything, most likely on purpose to fit your own purposes.

::
Also you said that nothing "makes" you believe in anything.. I guess what you mean is that you believe in what you WANT to believe... So now its all about what you WANT awful selfish huh?

No i believe in what I know to be true. Unlike you who requires proof of God, I see the proof everyday and don't think twice about it. Its a matter of perspective.
Those who call for evidence or proof are really blind by the christian perspective.

::also when you do good things for others Im guessing its because you WANTED to... and if you follow God its because you WANT to, or beacause you dont WANT to go to

Wanting or having the desire to help others is not selfish - its the opposite.
OTHERS is the key word - selfless.

At this point I have to question whether you are continuing a discussion or just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing because thats a pretty mixed up assessment right there.
::
Hell, or because you WANT to go to heaven... and wants are selfish things and you said selfishness is the root of sin.. so I guess your beyond redemption ... because the only way you can be saved is if you WANT to eneter heaven... you said it yourself that you had to choose where you want to go and since people have toWANT to go to heaven to go to Heaven it looks like no one is going because selfidhens is the root of all evil.. Damn we're all screwed then huh?

No wanting is not selfish in of itself - "wants" are desires.
Do you desire to help yourself or others? If its yourself over others = that defines selfishness..
Wanting to go to heaven will not get you there. Only repenting for your sins and Jesus will get your name in the book of life.

At 8/4/05 11:33 AM, billytheradponi wrote: I know you will all probably hate me for this, but I have to say that I believe God (you know the Christian one) after learning about him in RS (hours of bordem) I have come to believe he is evil...
Man is evil, he is greedy, savage and never thinks before he acts, the Bible also states that man is an image through God (or something like that) so God is evil too. He also has powers over Earth doesn't he? Well why does he let us continue to slaughter each other, the same goes for the other Gods (that have the power to stop our killing) why don't they stop it, because there evil. Sorry to say it, but they are my views and if anyone wants to argue you can email me or talk on msn here:billytheradponi@hotmail.com

I'm too lazy to read the entire thread, but maybe "god" just wants to teach people a lesson, by letting them kill each other? Maybe one day people will figure out violence is not the answer. Lessons are learnt, not thrust upon. If "god" (I put it in quotes because I''m not religous or anything) just jumped in and made us all stop, would we learn anything or face the consequences of our actions? No. Not all man is evil.

Alright, im too lazy to read this whole damn post, I just read the first page. Anyway we all know the bible is full of shit. Christianity was invented in the middle ages so that the church could have ultimate power over everyone. Now its just a foundation for right wing america. Christians "war is baaaad" "peace is gooood", then those fuckers go vote for bush and support the stupidest war ever waged under the excuse that its "for the spreading of democracy and freedom".
Christians make me sick. Marijuana was made illegal because of christians, racism and the slavery of african americans was brought along by christians. The christian chuch slaughtered hundreds of innocent people in the middle ages.
Christians are a bunch of fuckin hippocrites. The bible has already been proved wrong countless times. WTF where are the dinosaurs in the frikin bible? Or were dinosaur bones just put in the ground by the "devil" to trick us <:-O!

At 8/31/05 08:12 PM, Q_Ball8 wrote: Maybe one day people will figure out violence is not the answer. Lessons are learnt, not thrust upon.

Well thats pretty funny that right wing america is the composed mainly of christians, and that they're supporting bush and the stupid war were in. If what u say is true god must be pretty damn angry with his disciples.

At 8/31/05 08:02 PM, ScrunchMuppet wrote:

No i believe in what I know to be true. Unlike you who requires proof of God, I see the proof everyday and don't think twice about it. Its a matter of perspective.
Those who call for evidence or proof are really blind by the christian perspective.

Doies God really want you to have blind faith like that? How do you know that what your seeing isnt proof of hidu gods? Answer you dont know that.. because you dont know.. You make assumptions.. based on nothing.. you said this your selifs that you base your belif's on nothing.. Unlike you I dont assume Im right... I look at the present evidence set beofre me and make m judgment from that.. that is not being selfish it is being rational.... If took you out to a tree and told you it was a lake you would look at it and so.. no it looks like a tree to me.. your not being selfish there your just looking at what you see and makeing a judgment....

Wanting or having the desire to help others is not selfish - its the opposite.
OTHERS is the key word - selfless.

I ant to help others... you say all sin comes from selfishness, but Ive lied many times to protect my friends from being hurt.. I understand that lieing is a sin and yet I did it out of selflessness also when I do deeds that I consider good I am doing them to help not because I think Ill be rewarded with an afterlife, in fact in most cases I dont believe ill ever be reewarded for doing god deeds....

At this point I have to question whether you are continuing a discussion or just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing because thats a pretty mixed up assessment right there.

Im still trating this as a debate.. but its a pretty heavy topic..Not because it has some sort of significance but because it deals heavily in a person's perception of reality...

No wanting is not selfish in of itself - "wants" are desires.
Do you desire to help yourself or others? If its yourself over others = that defines selfishness..
Wanting to go to heaven will not get you there. Only repenting for your sins and Jesus will get your name in the book of life.

I want to know something... since you believe so strongly in selfishness bbeing the root of evil.. if I could prove an instance where god was selfish would that mean he was evil?

At 8/31/05 08:28 PM, Onizuka888 wrote: Alright, im too lazy to read this whole damn post, I just read the first page. Anyway we all know the bible is full of shit.

And by all, you mean arrogant bigots?

Christianity was invented in the middle ages so that the church could have ultimate power over everyone

Middle Ages!? Did you fail world history?

Now its just a foundation for right wing america. Christians "war is baaaad" "peace is gooood", then those fuckers go vote for bush and support the stupidest war ever waged under the excuse that its "for the spreading of democracy and freedom".

Actually, the bible says that you should only fight a just war, which it is. But how would you know what the bible says, you're just an ignorant pissant who rants on about things he doesn't know shit about.

Christians make me sick. Marijuana was made illegal because of christians, racism and the slavery of african americans was brought along by christians. The christian chuch slaughtered hundreds of innocent people in the middle ages.

Care to add an proof or are you just playing the blame game?

Christians are a bunch of fuckin hippocrites. The bible has already been proved wrong countless times. WTF where are the dinosaurs in the frikin bible? Or were dinosaur bones just put in the ground by the "devil" to trick us <:-O!

I don't see any reason dinosaurs would be in the bible seeing as how they didn't know anything about them at that point.

For those of you complaining about God not wanting us to have incredbile knowledge, saying that God only wanted to choose what we should and shouldn't know, maybe that was the best thing.

I think most us can agree that throughout human history, there have been a few things that we should not have known. Just look at how much we have used invention and science for destruction, violence, and death. Just look at all the weapons we have built, maybe God didn't want us to know how to build machines that serve no other purpose but to kill. But now we do know those things, and look what it's done to us. In every history book you'll find only three things; wars, dates, and dead people.

Maybe God's idea was teach us everything we could know about non-violent things. Because as most people have said, both believers and non-believers, humans are by nature selfish, ignorant, and violent. Prehaps it was better for God to decide which information we should have, and which things we are better off not knowing, seeing as how we have applied alot of our knowledge to violence. "I'll teach you how to build homes, complex technology, and everything else. However, I won't teach you how to build a nuclear bomb capable of killing MILLIONS of people and irradiating the land for hundreds of years." I think that's fair.

And speaking of which, did any of you hear about this experimental nuclear bomb called the Nova? This is all currently on paper, it isn't in production yet, but I hope to God they don't decide to build one of these things. If this weapon works right, and if the calculations are correct, the Nova will be the single most destructive weapon ever created. It's a cluster of nukes, an almost spherical cluster of nuclear bombs surrounding a trintium core. The power of a cluster of nukes would be devestating enough, but that's only the FIRST explosion. In theory, if the force of several nuclear explosions going into one another, building up intensity and potential raw energy toward the trintium core only grow in size and destruction. After the first explosion with the several nukes, the force of these nukes going toward eachother in a center would build up creating an even stronger second explosion, capable of destroying everything in it's path for nearly 100 MILES!!!!!!

And that's only what they are HOPING it does. There are risks (as if something destroying everything in 100 miles wasn't a big enough risk by itself). There is concern that this super-heated core could ignite any stray gaseous atoms inside it, causing any air particles inside it to detonate into nuclear explosions as well, creating an even masser explosion. The biggest threat is that if these air particles DO detonate inside this super-heated core, than it might start a chain reaction in which this raw heat will spread to any other atoms it comes in contact with and detonating them as well. If that happens, it'll create a chain reaction inwhich every microscopic atoms will become super-heated and explode, destroying all life, and every last atom of matter on Earth.

Is this weapon a good idea, HELL NO! Any moron can see that, but it still might get approved for experimentation. Because that is the biggest flaw in our intellegence, we HAVE to know, we MUST be certain, we can't go on wondering if it'll happen or not. So our life and every last scrap of matter on this planet could be destroyed just to satisfy some asshole's since of curiosity.

Maybe THAT was what God didn't want us to know.