Niger crisis

[BigBlueBalls]

Right now there is a major crisis in Niger. Millions of people starving to death because of locust invasions and drought. Countries around the world have pledged their support for the Nigerians.

Why is it that Africa is always having these problems? Is feeding them going to help them in the long run, or is this a sign of a much more bigger problem that needs to be addressed in Africa? It seems every year countries around the world try to send aid to Africa and there's still ongoing crisis, some years worse than others. Do you think there is anything we can do to prevent this problem from reoccuring or getting worse as it has for the last few decades or is Africa a lost cause forever doomed to handouts?

I just thought I'd ask what your views on this current crisis. It seems to me like it's an endless spiral that we need to address the root causes of.

[TheReveiwer]

Uhhh here's something maybe you should specify in yoru topic ((the country)) Look at the spelling O_O

Anyway what else can we do other then feed them? if we teach them to grow locusts will eat their stuff again but at the same time we want them to be independant

difficult

[Alkador]

Excellent, a topic I feel I have some high knowledge of.

I feel so sorry for Niger. Supposed to have become independent over a few years ago, yet slavery, famine and death occurs so often. It's something that is a pressing issue and one that the governments or media give little attention of. Everyday, someone dies in Africa and hardly any people in more civilized contries are aware of this.

What's more is how we have programs that are designed to donate money and sponsor these sorts of people. Sure, the government might send...say a million (I'm not sure of the exact ammount, but I think it's higher) of US dollars to a particular African country. Who gets it first? The African government. Now we may imagine a desert landscape at some parliament house, but the governments in Africa are just considerably corrupt, taking about 95% of the money and telling those other governments that 'the money got through'. In fact, barely any of it did and lots of people suffer due to the corruption of these governments.

A solution? Money isn't going to do it. The governments of these countries will swallow it up, no matter what. I have a very crazy theory, but it will work. Most people are highly against death, but the US invaded Iraq and are currently attempting to re-establish particular areas, so why not do this to African ones?

What angers me is that so many people are not aware at the fact that these governments do this and what's more is how much attention they receive from the media.

Well, that's how I feel.

[lapis]

At 8/2/05 05:50 AM, Alkador wrote: A solution? Money isn't going to do it. The governments of these countries will swallow it up, no matter what. I have a very crazy theory, but it will work. Most people are highly against death, but the US invaded Iraq and are currently attempting to re-establish particular areas, so why not do this to African ones?

Bush senior tried that, remember? Somalia in 1992. The local population was not exactly amused. The corpses of US soldiers were dragged naked through th streets of Mogadishu. America invading an African muslim country like Sudan or Somalia is a wet dream for people like Bin Laden. And look at the recent anti-French riots in Ivory Coast. Even christian african nations don't like foreign incursions. I really doubt that your proposed interventions will produce anything more than death and chaos.

[Jimsween]

At 8/2/05 05:41 AM, TheReveiwer wrote: Uhhh here's something maybe you should specify in yoru topic ((the country)) Look at the spelling O_O

You're a moron. Die.

[TheReveiwer]

At 8/2/05 06:23 AM, Jimsween wrote:

At 8/2/05 05:41 AM, TheReveiwer wrote: Uhhh here's something maybe you should specify in yoru topic ((the country)) Look at the spelling O_O

You're a moron. Die.

Cheap shot detected launching anticheapshot missle BOOM

anyway I jsut thought to bring that up because osme moron may come here not read your post and act all offended

just watchin out for ya man

anyway we should donate money and food if we can

[Alkador]

At 8/2/05 06:21 AM, lapis wrote: Bush senior tried that, remember? Somalia in 1992.

I'm from Australia, so I don't remember...or know for that matter.

Explanation

Well, that's quite bad. I had never heard about that incident until today.

I really doubt that your proposed interventions will produce anything more than death and chaos.

Well, maybe I shouldn't have said 'will work' above. But something has to be done. The superpowers (if it's right to call them that) have more than enough capability to do something to help in some way.

Well, if physical intervention won't work, what do you suggest will?

[lapis]

At 8/2/05 06:34 AM, Alkador wrote:

At 8/2/05 06:21 AM, lapis wrote: Bush senior tried that, remember? Somalia in 1992.

I'm from Australia, so I don't remember...or know for that matter.

There's this movie called 'Black Hawk Down' which is about the Somalia incident. I don't know if it's historically accurate, I watched it but I was stoned so I don't remember ... :S

Well, if physical intervention won't work, what do you suggest will?

Well honestly I don't really think that there's a lot that the West can do about countries like Niger. These countries need a good old-fashioned dictator like Castro or Mao, and then after twenty or thirty years, when the country is stabile, they should slowly switch over to democracy. It will take time, and Western incursions will only have an adverse effect.

[StatiK]

And on a serious note, I think the solution is not to stop giving money, because money, unfortunately, is really the only way to pay for the myriad of basic human services that most African nations need to establish, update, and maintain. It is true though that the vastly corrupt governments are likely to swallow the vast majority of the funds for their own purposes. I think the two ways around this would be to stop giving money with no strings attached, and -demand- that there be tangible results in important areas, or else rescind funding (this is a sserious threat since many African countries rely heavily on American aid), or to send a substantial number of aid workers to ensure that the funds are going to the right places and being used properly.

[Maus]

At 8/2/05 05:41 AM, TheReveiwer wrote: Uhhh here's something maybe you should specify in yoru topic ((the country)) Look at the spelling O_O

That's how the name of the country is spelled, you half-wit. I would wager that the majority of the people that post in this forum have at least a rudimentary knowledge of geography.

As to the question of Africa: Until we learn that not every country wants to emulate Western civilisation, we won't get anywhere.

[lapis]

Actually there might be something that the West can do to help Africa; encourage student exchanges between Western universities and African universities. The only risk is that they'll stay in the West though, but those who return will be more able to help their country.

In my previous post I said that countries like Niger need a dictator who can bring order and stability, and these are often people who went to college (Castro was a lawyer, Ho Chi Minh went to college in Europe). In the West we can train Africans so that one of them might seize power and end the fighting in his country, because stability is an important condition for economic growth.

[Buckdich]

The problem with sending AID to africa as of right now is that we can not really control exactly where the money is being spent. It is most likely that the african country probably spent it on keeping the population further in control or something such as that. A more intelligent move (which is being implented in other african countries) is not nessicarily to give them the food they need, but teach them how to create a steady and reliable supply of food so they will not be in need of food. Remeber, giving money and food to africa only solves the problem temperaly(sp?).

[alien-television]

holy crap i thought that niger was missing a G and i was about ready to give my opinion on those monkeys, but now i see what you meant, that african nation over their that once had an oppurtunity to be rich and powerful by being ruled by us hard working aryans. they had their chance and they kicked us out, so too bad bitches.

[JoS]

well its certainly not a long run solution. think of it as putting your donut on your car when you get a flat. its a temporary solution till you can fix the problem.

To fix teh problem the way foriegn aid is given out must change. As well we must give them the tools and techniques to grow their own food,a lthout it is hard to combat drought.

[jobelow]

What the majority of Africa needs is a better education system. If we're gonna send aid, we should send professors, educators, scientists, and industry. If most of the continent is gonna be a charity case, we should at least send them a cure instead of a bandaid.

The continent has developed a pretty harsh climate over the past few thousand years, and people can't cope with it avoiding crisis as third world nations. Famine and disease could be taken care of if the general populace was better educated and more capable of developing self-sustaining industry. Nations north of the equator managed it over time, and with help, Africa could too.

Of course we have to keep people alive in the short term for this to happen, but the problem would go away if somebody or another would throw down for more world-class universities, more urbanization in the wasted parts of the continent not suitable for agriculture. I think thought reform is the best long-term solution.

[Pre-K-Prostitute]

Let them die. Regardless of wether or not its their fault or the fault of their parents that they got in this crappy situation, they should be able to get themselves out.

[Proteas]

And here I thought starving to death was a painless and dignified way to go...

[Generic-Unfunny-Name]

At 8/2/05 05:50 AM, Alkador wrote: Excellent, a topic I feel I have some high knowledge of.

hearing about it doesn't make you knowledgeable.

I feel so sorry for Niger. Supposed to have become independent over a few years ago, yet slavery, famine and death occurs so often. It's something that is a pressing issue and one that the governments or media give little attention of. Everyday, someone dies in Africa and hardly any people in more civilized contries are aware of this.

obviously you are and idiot. The media clings to this stuff all the time. just because your ideas of "media" are very deluded doesn't mean that there isn't media coverage. How did you gain your "high knowledge" of the issue? If there was an answer that wasn't a contradiction it would be: the media.

A solution? Money isn't going to do it. The governments of these countries will swallow it up, no matter what. I have a very crazy theory, but it will work. Most people are highly against death, but the US invaded Iraq and are currently attempting to re-establish particular areas, so why not do this to African ones?

Yer and Iraq is soooooooo much better now isn't it. what a excellent idea, then america can take over australia and then japan and then italy and then the world. love the thought put into that: if a country isn't ok just invade. wow. problem solved. nice one.

What angers me is that so many people are not aware at the fact that these governments do this and what's more is how much attention they receive from the media.

does that really anger you? i dont think so. Why? because it's not true. people know these things are happening, but they just dont care. does that frighten you? so mutch so that you have to lie to your self and pretend people care. your so ignorant.

i can't say i know too much of the crisis but i know it will go unresolved all most indefinitely. some money will go there, be used incorrectly due to a misconception of the reasoning behind the crisis and every one will for get about it. then some famous twat will start some fund raising event or failing that some knd of way of making people feel like there ignorant about the subject but they "really do care." This event will happen. every one will forget about the actual problem yet feel virtuous. problem solved. (in the eyes of the western world)

[JoS]

There is no miracle cure, or solution to solving the problems in Africa. For that matter there is no one cause. Here are some of the reasons there are issues, and Im just scraping the top with this:
Colonialism
Climate
Racism (both internal and external)
Historical feuds
Disease
Extrem Poverty
Unfair trade practise by the North
Debt
WB and IMF policies
Political instability
Corruption
Lack of education
Lack of basic social services
Lack of infrastructure
Exploitation
Civil War

Now not all of these are present in every African nation, but you will find some of these in every country in Africa. Until these problems have been addressed if not solved we cannot expect much progress in this area of the world.

And I am very knowledgeable in this area, but if you don't wanna believe me thats your right.

[Nylo]

At 8/2/05 06:21 AM, lapis wrote: Bush senior tried that, remember? Somalia in 1992.

T----otally different situation. Bush Sr. was after some warlord, Farrah Adid if I can remember that name right. Black Hawk Down was a nifty movie, but using it for historical purposes is like M*A*S*H being a real representation of what happened in Vietnam.

The cover-story for the Niger crisis came out just as I started eating a small box of potato wedges from KFC. X(

[BeFell]

The problem with Africa is the unstable corrupt governments that make it immpossible for any of the countries to build any kind of worthwhile infastructure because they are constantly at war or being harrased by their own government or simply not being provided with the support needed for industrial infastructure to grow.

The only solution I see for this problem is for the UN to stop wasting money and efforts to send aide workers who rape little African girls and instead work twoards supporting stable governments in the region. I don't particuarally even care what the systems are as long as the aren't genocidal dictators. Africa needs roads, bridges and canals and they need governemtents that can adaquetely provide those. The UN needs to step in and make sure that the government doesn't change every couple of weeks and weed out the corruption. How long have we been sendin aide with the hopes that everything would get straightened out? It's time to take a much more proactive aproach and get them off the teet. As long as we just throw money at the problem nothing is going change.

[Elfer]

What Africa really needs is less fucking people, and less people fucking.

[BigBlueBalls]

If Africa pulled itself together, it could be one of the most richest continents on the planet. They have tons of untapped resources. Education seems to be the main key here. A long time ago their continent was colonized by Europeans and the Africans there were prohibited from taking part in society. When they finally ceased their power over Africa, they were left with no education and lots of guns. The constant wars seems to be a problem. As for environmental change, they should be able to learn to cope with that, just as every other country has. IMO sending them tools and education is much more effective than just food.

[BrooklynBrett]

Live 8 was the worst thing that could have happened to these countries. Corrupt governments starve the people, and care only for their own power. They were deep in debt, and about to be driven from power.... and then... Bono and Bob Geldof stepped in and pressured the G8 leaders to forgive the debt, giving these horrible, corrupt African governments a get out of jail free card.

Great job.

[lapis]

At 8/2/05 09:06 PM, darkmage8 wrote:

At 8/2/05 06:21 AM, lapis wrote: Bush senior tried that, remember? Somalia in 1992.

T----otally different situation. Bush Sr. was after some warlord, Farrah Adid if I can remember that name right.

Whether the US is trying to take out some warlord or to save them for their corrupt leaders is of no concern to the African people, especially in the Islamic ones. I was only arguing that the local population will resent any sort of Western military intervention. Some nations have already had some experience with UN soldiers, but not with foreign agressors fighting the nation's own military.
Look at what happened in Ivory Coast. The local government killed nine french and an american civilian in an airstrike, so the French detsroyed the entire Ivorian (?) airforce (two or three planes). The population was seriously pissed off. Thousands rioted and nearly all Westerners were evacuated from the country. Read more.

Black Hawk Down was a nifty movie, but using it for historical purposes is like M*A*S*H being a real representation of what happened in Vietnam.

And I always thought M*A*S*H took place in Korea (just bitching here, sorry)

[Slizor]

There is no miracle cure, or solution to solving the problems in Africa. For that matter there is no one cause. Here are some of the reasons there are issues, and Im just scraping the top with this:
Colonialism
Climate
Racism (both internal and external)
Historical feuds
Disease
Extrem Poverty
Unfair trade practise by the North
Debt
WB and IMF policies
Political instability
Corruption
Lack of education
Lack of basic social services
Lack of infrastructure
Exploitation
Civil War

For god's sake people, why must you ignore a multicasual list of reasons and try to promote monocasual reasons (mainly corruption (which seems to me to be a way of assuaging guilt over doing nothing.)) Now, let's just sort out this list a bit.

Extreme Poverty
Lack of education
Lack of basic social services
Lack of infrastructure
Exploitation
Debt
WB and IMF policies

Are all caused, to a large degree, by

Unfair trade practise by the North

The problems caused by unfair trade practices lead to

Political instability
Corruption
Racism (internal)

Which may lead to

Civil War

With the help of

Historical feuds

And maybe even

Racism (both internal and external)

We also have

Disease

Which is caused by

Climate
Lack of infrastructure
Extreme Poverty

And lastly, pretty much the whole list causes itself to repeat itself. So debt means there are poor education systems, poor education systems mean there are fewer skilled workers to invite higher-paying jobs which means that the country will be unable pay off the debt because they are not getting enough taxes.

[D2Kvirus]

In short - cancelling their debt didn't exactly help anyone, Bob.

However, a lot is being cut out of the story. Firstly, Niger is actually a rich country as it has a lot of Uranium to sell (remember Bush's fake evidence of Iraq's WMD?), but the problem is, as with many African nations, it's divided in two, with one group on top and one under the feet. In Niger, the black population is underneath, while the dominant population is Muslim, and the money and means aren't distributed evenly, as they stay within the higher group. And within the lower group, there is one section that is prosperous and healthy, and another that is the exact opposite.

On top of this, the food and aid sent just last week stayed with the richer end of the scale that didn't need it, and were even selling it off to other countries to grease their palms. But that's the problem with these one-time aid dumping deals - it's just sent there and that's the end of that. Nobody makes sure it reaches the right people and places, nobody checks if it is properly distributed, but their conscience is clean as they "did the right thing" that one time they bothered to care (see also: Tsunami Appeals, Romanian Orphanages, Live Aid, Live 8).

There's also the fact one giant slug of aid is the worst thing to do - slowly drip-feeding it over many years, as Oxfam do, helps far more than one giant bundle and nothing more.

[LegendaryLukus]

In response to French foreign minister, Phillipe Douste-Blazy's, attack on Tony Blair campaign to help Africa, I give him a big FU! He spoke from Niger and claimed snottily that France was the biggest contributor to the region and demanded other countries followed suit

What he forgets to mention in his rant is that the UK was one of the first countries to respond to the crisis, and one of the top three countries in terms of aid to Niger.

I know there are bigger things at stake than correcting some lousy Frenchman, but....you know I can't finish that. I dislike the French too much

[JoS]

At 8/3/05 09:31 AM, Slizor wrote: For god's sake people, why must you ignore a multicasual list of reasons and try to promote monocasual reasons (mainly corruption (which seems to me to be a way of assuaging guilt over doing nothing.)) Now, let's just sort out this list a bit.

Extreme Poverty
Lack of education
Lack of basic social services
Lack of infrastructure
Exploitation
Debt
WB and IMF policies

Are all caused, to a large degree, by

Unfair trade practise by the North

Actually lack of social services, infrastructure and education are all a result of WB and IMF policies, with a dash of debt. Once you can no longer pay atleast the interest on your loan the WB steps in and takes over. Their goal is to premote economic growth, which they usually fail at. First off, sellign off all social services like health care and education. All infrastructure built is ment for export only mainly, service to factories etc. And all goods built are crops farmer are exported, meaning then the country has to import food. The WB does not allow them to subsidize their farmers because it creates "unfair" conditions for trading in the world market, despite the fact the west heavily subsidizes agricultural products.

The problems caused by unfair trade practices lead to

Political instability
Corruption
Racism (internal)

Racism internally is more a result of historical feuds and colonialism. Many feuds were even created by colonialism. But when Africa was divided up iunto what it is now no attention was paid to tribal borders. This ment grousp of people who have hated eachother for centuries are now being forced to share power, or fight for power even.

Which may lead to

Civil War

With the help of

Historical feuds

I cannot argue witht his point really.

The reason I made such a large list is because just one of these factors alone is not enough to cause this problem, you need 4 or 5, with perhaps the exception of civil war. You need a bunch of factors combined otgether to create this issue.

[Camarohusky]

At 8/3/05 10:50 AM, Tal-con wrote: Hey, don't insult people Maus, it's not nice :(

Hey, Maus could kick your ass, there she can do whatever she feels.
(That's probably the problem with Africa, big strong peopel abusing their rule. :-p )