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There is no clear answer to this, some good advice would be to watch that Micheal Moore film "Bowling for Columbine" even if you think hes an ashole for anything else he did.

In events such as this, there i no one thing you can blame, which pisses off some people REALLY bad because when your child is dead and the killer just wasted themself, you want someone to pay! You don't want the bastard to get away with it do you?

What we must understand is that there is direct fuel for the crime and indirect fuel. Direct fuel is the main base of the reasons, and could be a result of failing to cope well with bullying (trust me it REALLY can drive you to suicide), lack of good parenting (whether abusive parents or just a plain lack of attention or care), extreme shyness combined with lack of social skills and friends (those 2 were seen as weird by the other kids) and anger at adults about how they don't seem to listen to them (most teenagers feel this, i sure as hell do). All of these are some base founding reasons for a crime such as Columbine.

Indirect or overlapping fuel is the mass media everyone is so very quick to blame, videogames, movies, the internt, "aggressive" or "violent" music (marylin manson or heavy metal) and all the other mass media. These serve to heighten their sense of hate at others but are not the reason they do it nor is it because of them that they do it. Also if we try to pin blame on violent content like GTA then it is unfeaseable, as most of what we declare "violent" is over 18 rated, so if the person had it and was underaged then it is not there fault they got it, it is the shop's or the parent's.

But in the end the human soul will strive to find 1 single person or organisation to blame, as it is easier for us to hate one central thing we can concentrate our hatred on, rather than many where our hate would waver at the sheer amount, also, we can't say how much one thing caused the crime, we can't say "Getting bullied was 20% of it and playing GTA was 10% etc" because such a thing is impossible to place.

I am not saying i am a heartless ambomination who doesn't care about human life. As much as i hate them, i could not bring myself to kill the one i hate most for reasons other than he pisses me off a bit. These 2 boys are an isolated incident who were obviously fucked up bad. Only 10% of humanity has the real ability to kill and out of those only 2% are what we know as "Heroes" usually seen in the armed forces or police, the rest unfortunatly are the criminals and loonatics of our society. These 2 were part of the 98%.

Our strong ability to create complicated things and destroy complicated things have brought us to the point as the dominate race of Earth, these essential skills however, cause problems amongst our own, the urge to vent anger via destruction and our please in seeing our finished works. These we must try to live with, as they are part of human nature, which to my knowledge technology may never be advanced enough to change. What would you say if someone blamed our very nature to destroy for Columbine? We wouldn't take it seriously but it may be the clearest answer we have, period.

Shit like this will remain with our species for all time, and we must learn to accept that sometimes there is no person, no organisation, nothing that can be blamed for bad things. We must live on and attempt to prevent them from commiting such in every way we can.

You wouldn't get an event like this as often in a place where owning a gun is illegal.
Damn my mind is tired, phew!

At 7/31/05 09:18 PM, _FLAGG wrote: Yea, because I'm sure they just left shotguns and pipebombs on the top of their dressers, and on their bedroom floors.

Did you see thier video tape? They had alot of guns.

Not to mention, that it's not simply that they hid the guns. The parents had seen things many times, on one occasion the father found a homemade bomb. The parents were just stupid.

At 7/31/05 09:25 PM, Jimsween wrote:

At 7/31/05 09:18 PM, _FLAGG wrote: Yea, because I'm sure they just left shotguns and pipebombs on the top of their dressers, and on their bedroom floors.

Did you see thier video tape? They had alot of guns.
Not to mention, that it's not simply that they hid the guns. The parents had seen things many times, on one occasion the father found a homemade bomb. The parents were just stupid.

Ok, ok. Point taken. This wasn't just a regular ol' 'parents becoming victims of their grace-given privacy' kind of thing.
I still feel, however, that these deranged teenagers would have let loose their sociopathic tendencies, at one point or another...even if their parents had stepped in.
As I said before...if it hadn't of been bullies picking on them/poor parenting, it would have been breaking up with a girl, or getting fired from a job, or being evicted.

At 7/31/05 09:59 PM, _FLAGG wrote: I still feel, however, that these deranged teenagers would have let loose their sociopathic tendencies, at one point or another...even if their parents had stepped in.
As I said before...if it hadn't of been bullies picking on them/poor parenting, it would have been breaking up with a girl, or getting fired from a job, or being evicted.

I totally agree. Thats the same argument I use when it comes to things like violence in video games and pornography.

At 7/31/05 10:06 PM, Jimsween wrote:

At 7/31/05 09:59 PM, _FLAGG wrote: As I said before...if it hadn't of been bullies picking on them/poor parenting, it would have been breaking up with a girl, or getting fired from a job, or being evicted.

I totally agree. Thats the same argument I use when it comes to things like violence in video games and pornography.

I often feel the same way. This is way off topic, probably...but I think the point of censorship get's skewed, sometimes.
It's not about protecting children from 'images and potrayals that will turn them into immoral rapists/murderers/child-molesters'. Censorship just keep a certain level of smut off a certain medium of media.
All the censorship in the fucking world wouldn't have helped those two kids, who did what they did at Columbine. All the coddling, FCC regulations, and parental interferance in the world wouldn't have made those boys any less crazy.

Blame the only people who are to blame: The two sick fucks who thought it'd be a rad idea to blow away their schoolmates. Those are the only two lives that should be held in contempt.

Blame the only people who are to blame: The two sick fucks who thought it'd be a rad idea to blow away their schoolmates. Those are the only two lives that should be held in contempt.

What? Am I missing something? This wasnt the only school shooting in american history, I dont support these 2 sick basterds, but you cant say that every shooting should be blamed on them. Thats like saying "This Daminoes pizza sucked ass! So now every for every bad pizza i have, im gonna blame dominoes!"

P.S. I may have misinterpreted what you said. Sorry >.<

So the common ground is that these kids were crazed and whacked out.

But just look at why they wound up screwed in the head.

These kids weren't exactly going for an acheivment award in school. So they got pumped full of this crap from everyone that they're failures now, and that they'll continue to be failures for the rest of their lives and they're going to die a sad lonely death with a crackpipe in hand.

They're parents didn't give a shit (until after the shooting when they thought 'Oh man, I'm gonna look bad'), the school didn't give a shit (like they ever do), and most of all the kids themselves didn't give a shit anymore either.

Like Matt Stone said, maybe if somebody had told them that high school is not the end of life maybe they wouldn't have gone on a shooting spree.

At 7/31/05 11:18 PM, Dinodoode wrote: P.S. I may have misinterpreted what you said. Sorry >.<

Oh it doesn't matter, he's totally going to crush you... and me. At least I want him to, I haven't gotten a good damien crushing in a while.

I'll give him a topic. n00b

At 7/31/05 11:18 PM, Dinodoode wrote:
What? Am I missing something? This wasnt the only school shooting in american history, I dont support these 2 sick basterds, but you cant say that every shooting should be blamed on them. Thats like saying "This Daminoes pizza sucked ass! So now every for every bad pizza i have, im gonna blame dominoes!"

Or try to create legislation to ban pizza.;

Or try to create legislation to ban pizza.;

Its called a metaphor o.0

At 7/31/05 11:18 PM, Dinodoode wrote:

Blame the only people who are to blame: The two sick fucks who thought it'd be a rad idea to blow away their schoolmates. Those are the only two lives that should be held in contempt.

What? Am I missing something? This wasnt the only school shooting in american history, I dont support these 2 sick basterds, but you cant say that every shooting should be blamed on them. Thats like saying "This Daminoes pizza sucked ass! So now every for every bad pizza i have, im gonna blame dominoes!"
P.S. I may have misinterpreted what you said. Sorry >.<

Yea, you did. What the fuck did you think I meant? Did you think I meant the Columbine kids were to blame for every school shooting in America? Do you think me so completely and ass-backwardly ignorant?

I'll rephrase it, in case you're not the only one who didn't understand me:
Anyone who shoots up public places, for any reason (be it schools, malls, or post offices) is whacked in the fucking head. Sane people don't kill innocent people, do they? Sane people don't build pipe bombs to use on people they barely know. Sane people don't climb to the top of a clock tower, for the purpose of snuffing innocent life out of existance.

Clear enough, for you?

At 7/31/05 11:27 PM, Dinodoode wrote:

Or try to create legislation to ban pizza.;

Its called a metaphor o.0

Yeah, but let some of these "Crusaders" on it and it might become reality. You already have the movements for "Junk food taxes" going.

This may just be me, but I seem to remember Columbine being caused by two crazy kids who deicded to murder everyone.

Oh, and as a side note, the original Anarchist's Cookbook was just as much bullshit as the Jolly Roger one.

- It was all of the things u listed (except for the ritalin thing, marilyn manson and satan worship). it started wtih bullies and they wanted revenge. Violent video games and the Anarchist cookbook just gave them ideas of how to get it. I mean u dont go shot a bunch of people just because u saw it in a video game u have to be encouraged from a number of other things. I mean a prep doesnt play a violent game and then go shot a bunch of people. see my point. The video games and anarchist cookbook were part of "the cause" but if it werent for it all starting with the bullies none of this would have happened.

At 8/1/05 12:04 AM, dudeI8urmom91 wrote: The video games and anarchist cookbook were part of "the cause" but if it werent for it all starting with the bullies none of this would have happened.

Wrong. What you should have said was 'If it weren't for the two guys being sick, deranged, delusional, and maladjusted maniacs....none of this would have happened."

Yea, you did. What the fuck did you think I meant? Did you think I meant the Columbine kids were to blame for every school shooting in America? Do you think me so completely and ass-backwardly ignorant?

Whoa buddy quit flippin out. I seem to remember you saying:

"BLAME the ONLY people who are to blame: The TWO sick fucks who thought it'd be a rad idea to blow away their schoolmates. Those are the ONLY TWO lives that should be held in CONTEMPT."

You spacifically blame them. I DO NOT like what they did at Columbine, but you cant just blame them.

P.S. None Of You Guys Know What A Metaphor Is..............

WTH it was caused by the kids being picked on ifeel like being in the polictical section is an endless loop of answering the same qeustions over and over again

thier life sucked so before they killed them selves they wanted to get the people who made thier life suck belive me thats the same thing i did last time i died

At 7/31/05 11:18 PM, pierrot-le-fou wrote: So the common ground is that these kids were crazed and whacked out.

[Continues]

Like Matt Stone said, maybe if somebody had told them that high school is not the end of life maybe they wouldn't have gone on a shooting spree.

Possibly the best response in this thread. Except maybe the arguments about stricter gun control on the previous page.

Now I'm not going to pretend to be informed on this. All I remember about the incident was the guys reinacted either the Lobby Scene from the Matrix or second level from Doom (accounts vary as to which it was) and that it was the first event like this to kick off the "Video Games Are Bad, k?" since Mortal Kombat.

The kids were cracked. Not like members of Newgrounds cracked, or healthy eccentricity cracked, but full grown depression laced in with a bit of schitzophrenia (sp?). Backed up with the hormones teenagers get throughout that period, bullying, neglect, and a twisted notion that death is good brings out the worst in people.

Blame society. Blame everything the kids interacted with up until the point that they pulled the trigger the first time. Everything probably had some impact on them. As someone else has said already, it's no good trying to divy up what was the "Primary Cause" of the horrid event - so instead you've got to look at everything, think "yeah, maybe if I was obsessed with Doom / was raised in gun culture where straw selling to minors is legal / was bullied from an early age / was raised listening to bands who self mutilate themselves or preach destructive behaviour / was dropped on my head as a child then I too would probably kill a lot of people". And then, for god's sake, fix them ALL. Don't lash at the video games or music or gun control or bullies and accuse them of being The Big Bad Evil That Warped Our Kid's Minds - fix them all

At 7/31/05 04:21 PM, capn_g wrote: That depends entirely on the nature of the restriction, ie if the parents (or whoever) didn't have guns in the first place, there wouldn't have been a Columbine incident to discuss. But there were and there was, so it's moot.

You can't outlaw guns in this country, so it's moot to even say things would be better off if they were. And on top of that, it's kind of naive to think that just because something is illegal means it won't happen.

At 7/31/05 09:25 PM, Jimsween wrote: Did you see thier video tape? They had alot of guns.

That's actually what I was about to say. It seemed like there were several rifles and such lined up against the walls, and somewhere in one of them's garage was hidden a bomb made from a propane tank wrapped with nails or some shit.

I also seem to remember a Leonardo DiCaprio movie being mentioned at that time... something called "The Basketball Diaries" I believe, where Dicaprio is seen going psycho and shooting up an entire class full of prepies.

At 7/31/05 11:35 PM, Elfer wrote: Oh, and as a side note, the original Anarchist's Cookbook was just as much bullshit as the Jolly Roger one.

I'm aware of that... XD

At 8/1/05 12:08 PM, Dinodoode wrote:

Yea, you did. What the fuck did you think I meant? Did you think I meant the Columbine kids were to blame for every school shooting in America? Do you think me so completely and ass-backwardly ignorant?

Whoa buddy quit flippin out. I seem to remember you saying:
"BLAME the ONLY people who are to blame: The TWO sick fucks who thought it'd be a rad idea to blow away their schoolmates. Those are the ONLY TWO lives that should be held in CONTEMPT."

Jesus God...you're dumber than a bag of hammers.

What's the name of this topic, dinodoode? Is it 'What really caused every fucking school shooting since the dawn of time?"
Or does the name of the topic specify 'Columbine'?

If the topic is Columbine...and the points at hand are about Columbine...wouldn't it be pretty fucking safe to assume that I'm talking about Columbine?

You spacifically blame them.

For Columbine. And just Columbine.

I DO NOT like what they did at Columbine, but you cant just blame them.

Yes, I can. They were the one's shooting guns at people, in Columbine. They were the one's that built the IED's, that were used during Columbine. They're the ones that couldn't take a little teasing, and resorted to primitive terrorist acts to suppliment their crap-ass self-esteems.

At 8/1/05 12:34 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: Blame society. Blame everything the kids interacted with up until the point that they pulled the trigger the first time.

That's bullshit. Those little bastards went through the same things every teenager did. Due to their insanity, however, they didn't do what everyone else does. They didn't do what sane, stable individuals do. They didn't work through it, or look past high school, or take it like fucking men. Instead, they reasoned out that the only answer would be to kill a bunch of innocent people.
Society didn't do that. Bullies didn't do that. Smut on tv didn't do that.
Two sick sociopaths did that.

It was the Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. It was their fault and no one else

it was the jocks fault they didnt beat the shit out of those 2 fags hard enough

beating the shit out of people gives them an inferiority complex and those 2 losers didnt feel inferior enoguh so they shot up the school

thats what i like about jocks they beat the shit out of nerds to keep them from shooting up the school i think assault should be legal in high school because jocks are the heroes of our society and they must be rewarded for it somehow

At 8/1/05 03:46 PM, HolsteinCow wrote: it was the jocks fault they didnt beat the shit out of those 2 fags hard enough

hahaha. You seriously made me laugh with that. Hard, too.

Antidepressents have been found to actually make kids more impulsive. And that kid was actually on antidepressents. I think that has something to do with it.

At 8/1/05 03:58 PM, -BLUEleaf- wrote: Antidepressents have been found to actually make kids more impulsive. And that kid was actually on antidepressents. I think that has something to do with it.

And yet, as I've said a hundred times in this thread: Everyone else who takes anti-depressants don't blow people up, or shoot innocent kids in a school.

They were crazy from the get-go. Maybe the anti-depressants was a stimulus, as was the video games and music and bullying and bad parents and everything else....but none of that would have affected them adversly, if they weren't fucking insane.

At 7/31/05 11:56 AM, Zen444 wrote: It happened because you dumbass Americans don't have stricter gun control

END!

it happened because you touch urself at night

yea u probally are right cuz i kno 10 ppl not sayin ne names that have gunz but they arnt that stupid enuff to shoot up a skool

A big problem was that, as has been mentioned, these kids were mentally sick. The term is sociopathic, I believe, they had a complete disregard for human life. From what other people have mentioned, they had a history of depression and medication. I'm guessing that the parents used the medication as a be-all, end-all solution to the problem instead of trying to find the source of their depression. Also, I would imagine that the kids themselves didn't seek the help they needed to help with their depression. That's tough, I know, I suffer from depression and it can get pretty bad if you allow it to. I'm sure the bullying didn't help any, the violent music and video games were probably not a cause of the root problem, but, I think, was a result of it. It was an outlet for their aggression, in my opinion.

In summation, I think it was a classic case of teenage angst and depression that was poorly handled by the parents and the kids themselves. Eventually all of that inner turmoil broke out in an extremely violent manner.

man usually if someone picks on me i embarass them on a huge scale or i fight them and usually win a fight(its true sometimes bullies are actually a bunch of pussies that cant fight but sometimes they can actually bak it up)

What caused Columbine
By:mobsterryan
1. The ability for these kids to have access to a Tec-9 Automatic pistol among others.
2. The ability to have a copy of the archinist cookboook
3. The parents who didn't care that these kids where making bombs

When you have all these combined, it makes a deadlt mix.