What really caused Columbine?

[Proteas]

I was reading a website the other day about the original Anarchist Cookbook (as written by William Powell, not that "Jolly Roger" twit), and it said that the Columbine shooters were avid readers of the aformentioned book and possibly fuel for the shootings.

Ever since the Columbine Massacre, I have heard a plethora of things deemed "the cause" of Eric Harris and Dylan Kliebold's shooting rampage. Violent video games, Marylin Manson, Satan worship, prolonged usage of ritalen through puberty, bullies, and now the Anarchist cookbook. You name it, and it's probably been blamed for the massacre.

I'm still waiting for Pat Robertson to come out and say that it was Sesame Street's fault, personally...

But to be quite honest with you all, I'm just wondering; what really caused the events of April 20th, 1999? Was it something I've already listed, or something that's been so blaringly obvious and yet so simple that everyone missed it? Or have the events of Columbine just become a whipping boy for everything "wrong" with society?

[Zen444]

It happened because you dumbass Americans don't have stricter gun control

END!

[Der-Ubermensch]

The shooters were at a point where they were completely disconnected from reality. I wouldn't go so far as to attribute their behavior to a single factor, rather a combination. Isolation, repetitive violent and depressive thought reinforced by daily oppression ( From what I've read, they were constantly bullied and belittled). Videogames and music may have been mediums through which they could refine their hate... but the root of the violence doesn't lie within.

[Proteas]

At 7/31/05 11:56 AM, Zen444 wrote: It happened because you dumbass Americans don't have stricter gun control

END!

The firearms used in the Columbine massacre were accquired LEGALLY for the boys by someone over the age of 21... sorta like when you pay someone to buy you beer because your underage.

But implying that guns caused the massacre? Please. The aformentioned actions show that the thought of massacre was already in their minds, so it's a pretty easier conclusion that guns did not cause what happened.

FAIL

[Zen444]

"What really caused Columbine?"

There small cocks, which prevented them from getting laid.

[Yoow]

At 7/31/05 12:35 PM, Proteas wrote: FAIL

Yeah, well why the fuck would even a 21 year old be allowed to have a gun?

[PhysicsMafia]

At 7/31/05 12:46 PM, Yoow wrote:

At 7/31/05 12:35 PM, Proteas wrote: FAIL

Yeah, well why the fuck would even a 21 year old be allowed to have a gun?

why shouldnt they be allowed a gun?
having a gun doesnt harm anyone, its the fact that sum ppl are just fucked up that kills ppl. the vast majority of gun owners are respomnsible adults who use guns for recreational sports, not mass killings of teenagers.

the columbine shootings occured because the two guys were fukin wack jobs, mentally deranged lunatics, no sane person runs around his school with a gun shooting ppl, uts not the governments fault for allowing ppl to own guns, its ppls fault for not having the sense to use them properly or responsibly

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 7/31/05 12:46 PM, Yoow wrote: Yeah, well why the fuck would even a 21 year old be allowed to have a gun?

Why not? We allow 21 year olds to operate dangerous motor vehicles and consume intoxicating substances. There are plenty of 21 year olds that can use guns responsibly, and do.

[MTeK]

At 7/31/05 12:35 PM, Proteas wrote: The firearms used in the Columbine massacre were accquired LEGALLY for the boys by someone over the age of 21.

Actually, straw purchasing (buying a gun for another person) is illegal.

[Maus]

At 7/31/05 01:05 PM, MTeK wrote: Actually, straw purchasing (buying a gun for another person) is illegal.

He already said that. Stricter gun control wouldn't have prevented it, was his point.

I think unchecked bullying is part of the cause. Schools don't do squat when some kids are bullied. These two boys were constantly made fun of, and that can certainly be a catalyst to unleash already latent sociopathic behavior. I think Harris was a sociopath to begin with, and Klebold was a follower. A bad mix.

[madzakk]

Two words: shitty parenting. I know, when I was that age, my parents would have found out and my dad would have kicked my ass, and rightfully so.

[JohnnyWang]

It was a goverment conspiracy to get more strict sensorship for TV, Music and games.

or something, just stabbing in the dark. I personally think it was because the guys who did it, had just lost it. I suspect they were to some degree sosiopathic.

[capn-g]

At 7/31/05 02:00 PM, Maus wrote:

At 7/31/05 01:05 PM, MTeK wrote: Actually, straw purchasing (buying a gun for another person) is illegal.

He already said that. Stricter gun control wouldn't have prevented it, was his point.

That depends entirely on the nature of the restriction, ie if the parents (or whoever) didn't have guns in the first place, there wouldn't have been a Columbine incident to discuss. But there were and there was, so it's moot.

What caused it? Lots of things. Mostly though, i think people tend to have this overly rosey view of the world and have trouble accepting the fact that roughly 2-5% of the population is just REALLY fucked up, for whatever reason and they're going to act out in violent, anti-social ways and probably hurt other people. What makes Columbine a unique incident I think (apart form the scale of it) was the mass media coverage.

[AshfordPride]

What caused Columbine? The kids who brought in guns. They probably arent right in the head.

[evilXbanana]

At 7/31/05 04:30 PM, AshfordPride wrote: What caused Columbine? The kids who brought in guns. They probably arent right in the head.

Right. One had a history of phsychotic actions while the other was on medication for depression that had mental destablizing side-effects.

Somebody with a PH.d would disagree but I'm a firm believer in people commiting crimes because their nuts

[Buffalow]

You know what cause columbine? Poor School Monitering, Dumb Ass PArents, and the way K-Mart sells rounds for a 25 cent discount

[madzakk]

At 7/31/05 06:02 PM, Dinodoode wrote: You know what cause columbine? Poor School Monitering, Dumb Ass PArents,

True.

and the way K-Mart sells rounds for a 25 cent discount
one of those two had a fairly new BMW, so I don't think ammo prices were an issue.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 7/31/05 11:54 AM, Proteas wrote: I was reading a website the other day about the original Anarchist Cookbook (as written by William Powell, not that "Jolly Roger" twit), and it said that the Columbine shooters were avid readers of the aformentioned book and possibly fuel for the shootings.

I don't believe it was the fuel for the shootings. It just gave them the information they needed to build IEDs.
One could say that was one of the stimuli for Columbine. After all, if they didn't have a source of information, they couldn't have made the bombs.
But that's moot anyway. The Anarchist Cookbook didn't give them guns, did it? The Anarchist Cookbook didn't make those two boys in-fucking-sane.
And that's all Columbine was. A couple of low-life maniacs who couldn't deal with the pressures of the world. People try to act like these guys were just completely fucking normal kids, who one day snapped.
People don't 'snap'. Insanity softly and silently creeps into people, for whatever reason. And then one day, it's let out. These kinds of serious mental maladies do not grow overnight, or develop from 'being picked on'.
They were two deranged, sick teenagers. And nothing more. No different than the ex-marine that climbed to the top of the clock tower, to snipe any and everyone.

Ever since the Columbine Massacre, I have heard a plethora of things deemed "the cause" of Eric Harris and Dylan Kliebold's shooting rampage. Violent video games, Marylin Manson, Satan worship, prolonged usage of ritalen through puberty, bullies, and now the Anarchist cookbook.

All these things were probably, when you get right down to it, stimuli for the shooting.
But that's because, and only because, the two boys were out of their fucking mind. Normal people aren't influenced by displays of violence in videogames and movies. Normal people don't take notes from the anarchist cookbook, and then buy supplies for the projects.

Normal people do not build pipe bombs in their garage, with the intent of using them on innocent human beings.

But to be quite honest with you all, I'm just wondering; what really caused the events of April 20th, 1999?

Insanity. Delusional, maladjusted teenagers. A ready access to weapons. Two sets of parents that obviously had no idea what kind of people their children had become.

And that's it. Not Manson. Not the AC. Not bullies in school.

At 7/31/05 12:46 PM, Yoow wrote:

At 7/31/05 12:35 PM, Proteas wrote: FAIL

Yeah, well why the fuck would even a 21 year old be allowed to have a gun?

Because at 21, you're a legal adult.
Genius.

At 7/31/05 02:00 PM, Maus wrote:

At 7/31/05 01:05 PM, MTeK wrote: Actually, straw purchasing (buying a gun for another person) is illegal.

He already said that. Stricter gun control wouldn't have prevented it, was his point.
I think unchecked bullying is part of the cause. Schools don't do squat when some kids are bullied. These two boys were constantly made fun of, and that can certainly be a catalyst to unleash already latent sociopathic behavior.

Everyone gets picked on. And many, many people get picked on far worse than these two maniacs did. I went to school with people that were literally beat up, every other day. And guess what, everyone?
They never shot anyone. They never built pipe-bombs in the basement. They never committed suicide.
You said it better than anyone could, when you said 'latent sociopathic behavior.'

People need to understand...bullying may have pushed them over the edge. But if it hadn't of been bullies...it would have been something else. It would have been gettign laid of from a job, or breaking up with a girlfriend, or not getting accepted to their college of choice, or the death of a friend/family member.
Bullies weren't the problem. Crazy people were.

[carnie]

At 7/31/05 04:21 PM, capn_g wrote: That depends entirely on the nature of the restriction, ie if the parents (or whoever) didn't have guns in the first place, there wouldn't have been a Columbine incident to discuss. But there were and there was, so it's moot.

Not necessarily... firearms weren't the only killing tool that day. They also had pipe bombs.

What caused Columbine? A couple of kids who couldn't deal with the same reality that every kid has to endure. They were pussies who were picked on and ostracized. To blame gun control, anarchist cookbooks, poor parenting, etc. is take the blame off those who did it.

Columbine was caused by a couple of mixed up kids, kids who lacked the capacity to handle being picked on. Everybody, in one form or another, is picked on, made fun of, excluded or feels out of place at some point in high school. The blame sits squarely on the shoulders of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris.

[madzakk]

At 7/31/05 08:30 PM, _carnie_ wrote:

. To blame gun control, anarchist cookbooks, poor parenting, etc. is take the blame off those who did it.

I agree about the guns, and books, but if their parents had been paying more attention, this would have been stopped. The two boys took over a year building up their arsenal of guns and pipe bombs. I know my parents would have found out a lot sooner if I had been up to the same thing.

[carnie]

At 7/31/05 08:45 PM, madzakk wrote: I agree about the guns, and books, but if their parents had been paying more attention, this would have been stopped. The two boys took over a year building up their arsenal of guns and pipe bombs. I know my parents would have found out a lot sooner if I had been up to the same thing.

Maybe some parents, but my parents gave me enough freedom to do pretty much what I wanted. I know that I did plenty of things I didn't want my parents to know about and they never did.

If I were to blame the parents for anything, I'd blame them for raising a couple of pussies. Cause that's what it was all about- they couldn't handle the pressures of being an awkward teen...

[Jimsween]

The kids were mentally ill, I figured that was obvious.

And if there was one thing that made them mentally ill, it would be obvious. But as far as I can see there isn't, so it had to be everything.

[madzakk]

At 7/31/05 08:50 PM, _carnie_ wrote:

At 7/31/05 08:45 PM, madzakk wrote: I agree about the guns, and books, but if their parents had been paying more attention, this would have been stopped. The two boys took over a year building up their arsenal of guns and pipe bombs. I know my parents would have found out a lot sooner if I had been up to the same thing.

Maybe some parents, but my parents gave me enough freedom to do pretty much what I wanted. I know that I did plenty of things I didn't want my parents to know about and they never did.

If I were to blame the parents for anything, I'd blame them for raising a couple of pussies. Cause that's what it was all about- they couldn't handle the pressures of being an awkward teen...

My parents (Especially my mom) talked to me a lot. Often about, well, whatever, but the lines of communication were never broken. I think that was what kept me going when the world seemed against me.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 7/31/05 08:50 PM, _carnie_ wrote:

At 7/31/05 08:45 PM, madzakk wrote: I agree about the guns, and books, but if their parents had been paying more attention, this would have been stopped. The two boys took over a year building up their arsenal of guns and pipe bombs. I know my parents would have found out a lot sooner if I had been up to the same thing.

Maybe some parents, but my parents gave me enough freedom to do pretty much what I wanted. I know that I did plenty of things I didn't want my parents to know about and they never did.

I agree with you. When I was fifteen, I was telling my parents I was going to spend the night at a friends to play video games. And guess what I was doing at my friends house? It sure as hell wasn't video games.
I did drugs for almost a year, before my parents found out. And my parents are hardcore potheads, too. Will anyone dare to tell me that my parents, the most intelligent and experienced people in my life, are 'bad parents'...simply because I was able to keep something from them?

Every child keeps secrets from their parents. If every parent who didn't know 100% of everything their kids did were 'bad parents'...there would be very few 'good' parents.

If I were to blame the parents for anything, I'd blame them for raising a couple of pussies. Cause that's what it was all about- they couldn't handle the pressures of being an awkward teen...

[madzakk]

At 7/31/05 08:57 PM, _FLAGG wrote:

.

I did drugs for almost a year, before my parents found out. And my parents are hardcore potheads, too. Will anyone dare to tell me that my parents, the most intelligent and experienced people in my life, are 'bad parents'...simply because I was able to keep something from them?

Every child keeps secrets from their parents. If every parent who didn't know 100% of everything their kids did were 'bad parents'...there would be very few 'good' parents.

A bag of pot is one thing, been there, done that, bit I doubt I could have hidden a large arsenal of guns and explosives from them.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 7/31/05 09:07 PM, madzakk wrote: A bag of pot is one thing, been there, done that, bit I doubt I could have hidden a large arsenal of guns and explosives from them.

Oh, so, are you parents 'bad people' because they didn't snoop into your life to the point of finding out all your secrets?

Parents, when their children reach a certain age, give their children privacy. These two sick fucks put together pipe bombs and collected guns on their own time, via that aformentioned privacy.

[Jimsween]

At 7/31/05 09:12 PM, _FLAGG wrote: Oh, so, are you parents 'bad people' because they didn't snoop into your life to the point of finding out all your secrets?

Giving your kids privacy does not mean never seeing inside thier room or knowing what they are doing.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 7/31/05 09:15 PM, Jimsween wrote:

At 7/31/05 09:12 PM, _FLAGG wrote: Oh, so, are you parents 'bad people' because they didn't snoop into your life to the point of finding out all your secrets?

Giving your kids privacy does not mean never seeing inside thier room or knowing what they are doing.

Yea, because I'm sure they just left shotguns and pipebombs on the top of their dressers, and on their bedroom floors.

[madzakk]

At 7/31/05 09:18 PM, _FLAGG wrote:

At 7/31/05 09:15 PM, Jimsween wrote:

At 7/31/05 09:12 PM, _FLAGG wrote: Oh, so, are you parents 'bad people' because they didn't snoop into your life to the point of finding out all your secrets?

Giving your kids privacy does not mean never seeing inside thier room or knowing what they are doing.

Yea, because I'm sure they just left shotguns and pipebombs on the top of their dressers, and on their bedroom floors.

If they were paying attention, they would have figured that something was up with their kids.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 7/31/05 09:21 PM, madzakk wrote: If they were paying attention, they would have figured that something was up with their kids.

That ain't nothing but an opinion. You've no way of knowing that for a fact.
And if it's heresay, it's got no place in this conversation.