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Why worship god?

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Braindead
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 00:31:01 Reply

unitarian strait up

lonedrow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 00:33:13 Reply

Or you can just pull your head out of your ass.

Or not, 'cuz it's more fun to piss people like you off.

jobelow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 04:37:50 Reply

I really tried to put and end to this whole god shit earlier when i was sober, but i guess i'll try again now, so bear with my couple of 22s.

Level 1: it's stupid to bring up religion in a forum on an entertainment site inhabited by mostly horny dumb teenagers, but I'm game anyway because i'm drunk and stupid at the moment.

Level 2: god does not exist. edn. If you sit back and think about it for a minute, it kinda makes sense how dumb it is to believe in such an absurd concept. If you think about this whole elliptical idea of faith and how it makes absolutely no sense but works perfectly for those who choose it, except it adds extra ontological baggage to the human body of knowledge which is totally unnecessary, yeah waste of time.

So say for a minute god did exist. ok. He "made" humans, gave them brains and a sense of logic and over a few million years they eventually gained some understanding of their universe and began to see evidence against their creator's existence all around them. If man is truly "in god's image" then we can envision this creator with some human qualities, so what kind of prankster god would put all this evidence out there proving our hunches that he doesn't exist? why would he give us senses we can't trust? why would he give us as our only salvation a book? A book is obviously the work of pen on paper, and obviously that pen was in the hands of men. How do we know we can trust those men? people do lie you know. How do we know these scribes weren't pulling a fast one on us? They had every reason to; they had a world to dominate.

Science. Generally people who attempt to scrutinize science from a religious perspective show a great great ignorance toward the process of science. Why are there scientific theories other than the big bang? because science is about coming up with new hypotheses, working with them, attempting to upgrade them to theories for the sake of making a name for oneself and getting some more research money to live on. Do these other theories hold up against big bang? not quite. does creation theory hold up against big bang? Not a snowball's chance in non-existant hell, because creation "theory" is not by the definition a theory at all, but merely a bunch of babble and false assertions made by ignorant religious zealots with degrees in some bullshit like divinity where the only real requirement is menial literacy and the ability to spout bullshit. Creation is NOT a theory. The idea doesn't really fit into any part of the scientific method other than maybe faulty hypothesis. Someone made a bunch of false axioms, made a lame attempt at digging up "evidence" that would never hold up to science, and the uneducated religious masses never knew the difference. These are dangerous ideas that undermine true education and lead poor students astray far too often.

Big Bang: how do we get something from nothing without god? If you have any understanding of Planck Time, you know that before zero, there is nothing, and after zero, there is something. You kind of have to wrap your mind around it for a minute, but it makes perfect sense. negative Planck time is undefined. There can be nothing there to "start the big bang" or to otherwise move things into being. There is nothing, a perfect symmetry of nothingness. A concept exempt from the limitation of nothingness is a tendency, and there was such a tendency, which would be entropy. Entropy acted on this perfect symmetry of nothingness. Entropy breaks things down, moves ordered systems toward chaos. A system of nothingness moved toward chaos is a wave. A wave is energy. Energy yields matter. Bang.

Evolution: Evolution is both fact and theory. There is the fact of evolution, in that we have proven beyond a doubt that live evolved from simple chemicals. If anyone wants to argue with me on this, good luck. College freshman level biology will convince anyone who isn't a total idiot of evolution. The theory of evolution consists of applications and prediction based on the fact of evolution, as well as some research into the mechanisms that bring about the evolution of organisms. Just because it's called a theory does not mean the fact of evolution isn't true. Basically the chemicals essential to life tend to create life if brought into close enough vicinity over a long enough period of time. Under conditions similar to those of primal earth, these elements in a laboratory have spontaneously formed into RNA, which would invariably become life over a long enough period of time. The rest is prehistory. Once there is reproducing life and variation in that population of reproducing life, evolution will occur as necessary. It's self-evident truth.

God: given the above stated truths, the only way to work god into the picture would be as an accessory, totally unnecessary other than to feed the ego of the theist. God is an excess complexity to the workings of the universe as understood by the scientific community. Occam's razor: when presented with two seemingly equally possible possiblilities, the simpler is almost always the true possibility. Godlessness is the simpler possibility.

Make your own religion: Using every principle used by god-worshippers, I could argue that a pink unicorn, satan, or a giant lifesaver is our supreme being, and to refuse to worship said being is to suffer damnation. There is no reason why any of these assertions should be more true than the others.

T-and-J-Productions
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 04:40:16 Reply

This conversation should end a looooooooong time ago!!!!!!!!!

bbeastieboy
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 04:54:46 Reply

At 6/30/05 10:19 PM, -------Shadic------- wrote:
At 6/30/05 09:49 PM, bbeastieboy wrote:
At 6/30/05 03:04 PM, WhiteClock wrote:
At 6/30/05 02:58 PM, bbeastieboy wrote: previous quotes etc etc look at the original post if you're that curious ok.
SO you do think science can explain all huh? Interesting:

1.How is it that if we could not do incest with adam and eve we can have several different couples of man and woman with enough genetic diversity to have functional children and all of them become the same exact species as all the other couples, when they were evolving in different areas?

guess what, youre talking about religion again, shut the fuck up. not willing to answer


2. how was life created in the first place when we can't even harness more than combining amino acids into proteins today?

big bang theory, thats science shit isnt it?


3.How is it that you are alive out of approximately 70,000,000 sperm cells in your dads penis, and your dads chances of being alive from your grandfathers, and your grandfathers chances and so on and so on? WHich is 70,000,000 sperm cells to the power of the amount of generations in your family. No, your calculator won't hold that many digits.

well, obviously one of the sperm of my great great great great great grampa made it to my great great great great great gramas egg, and so on. thus resulting in ME. i had to be made


4. HOw did matter come to exist out of nothing?

well, take water, and leave it in a cup for about 5 years, you'll get algae growing in that water. wont you? there you go, something out of nothing

Point proven.

idiot proven

@@@@@@@ WARNING @@@@@@@
Most of my above comments were purely made of sarcasm. so stfu if you are thinking of commenting on it
>:(

LazyDrunk
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 06:05:53 Reply

How come the majority of assholes in this thread are the ones who are skeptical of God?

I worship God for the life He made possible. How you say? I believe everything we see, hear, feel.... whether it be right in front of us or trillions of miles away..... was created at some point by something with sentience. Is that so hard to believe? If you can believe that much, and not just "uhh, boom. Magic," then is it also so hard to believe that a being with enough power to create something as immense as the universe and everything in it also had some sort of idea what He was doing when He did it? Yes, I'm sure He even foresaw the awesome diversity that life exhibits.... including disrespectful, ungrateful naysayers. Skeptical windowlickers like some of you are needed, if only to remind the faithful to stay gracious, upright and thankful. And guess what, you don't need to believe in an almighty Creator to understand His message. And belief in God doesn't automatically mean you understand either... but it helps :)

Anyways, I doubt the people I was aiming that at read it, so I'll close with this: I worship God as a reminder that I am not invincible, I am not perfect. But I'm more aware of who I am, and what I am striving to do with my life. It helps gives me purpose.

For those of you with a strong enough character and solid enough values to make it on your own, congratulations. For those of you who think you're strong enough, yet procede to prove your ignorance, stop and think logically about who you are, and how you fit into this world of 6 billion other humans who also possess the same brain and cognition you do.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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jobelow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 06:15:03 Reply

It's as easy to believe as to believe that the world disappears when you close your eyes.

Why make any effort to believe something that is useless, patently untrue, and causes a great deal of suffering and anxiety to those living as natural human beings at one time free from the corruption of artificial and illogical faith?

jobelow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 06:23:03 Reply

Could "God" make a burrito so big that He Himself could not eat it?

oxymoronic existence.

LazyDrunk
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 06:24:22 Reply

At 7/1/05 06:15 AM, jobelow wrote: It's as easy to believe as to believe that the world disappears when you close your eyes.

Just like it's as easy to believe in the Big Bang Theory. How is one group's unprovable opinions more valid than another's? Have scientists scientifically proven anything concerning the creation? No? Funny.


Why make any effort to believe something that is useless, patently untrue, and causes a great deal of suffering

I'm sorry you feel this way. If faith is as useless to you, as say, a tampon is to me, then I truly offer my condolences. However, I refuse to let my inability to use a tampon cause me to try to persuade to using them for their personal satisfaction and comfort.

and anxiety to those living as natural human beings at one time free from the corruption of artificial and illogical faith?

Please tell me more of these "natural human beings" you speak of. Also please tell me how your percieved "corruption" is enslaving them. I'm very curious, and want you to educate me.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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LazyDrunk
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 06:27:13 Reply

At 7/1/05 06:23 AM, jobelow wrote: Could "God" make a burrito so big that He Himself could not eat it?

Would that be part of His plan? If it somehow were, then yes, He could. You seem to forget that in believing in a sentient Creator, one accepts the notion that He designed all that is, including logic. Were it truly His will, it would indeed be possible.


oxymoronic existence.

"Think outside the box."


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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jobelow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 06:44:42 Reply

please bear with my alcohol and now sleep-deprivation strained mind, but i'll see what i can do...

At 7/1/05 06:24 AM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:
At 7/1/05 06:15 AM, jobelow wrote: It's as easy to believe as to believe that the world disappears when you close your eyes.
Just like it's as easy to believe in the Big Bang Theory. How is one group's unprovable opinions more valid than another's? Have scientists scientifically proven anything concerning the creation? No? Funny.

"Prove" is a very loaded word in this realm of discussion. By the definition of the word "prove" as used in a science vs. religion discussion, science is not out to "prove" anything, but to understand. A scientist has to tread very carefully with his vocabulary on this turf, and a careful one would replace "proof" with "evidence."

The big statement here, any PhD would right out say at the very beginning, Science does not deal with Creationism, on a business level. The Science community, on an advocacy level, seeks to inform the general public on the flawed reasoning behind the Creation movement, why it is not a true science, and how its masquerade under the name of science is harmful to the education of the general public.

Now as far as science actually dealing with creationism, like i said it generally doesn't, but from the very renaissance beginning of modern science, Creation was one hypothesis among others, and it simply did not survive the rigor of the scientific method. Reasons for this include lack of evidence, no way to actually set up an experiment (the definition of experiment might need some clarification to keep this from running into trouble, but i'll do it later if necessary, just for now take my word that other universal origin theories actually can have experiments set up. i guess one school of creationism could too, but the experiment would definitely fail.), over-complexity, "pet-hypothesis" fallacy, pretty much everything in the book.


Why make any effort to believe something that is useless, patently untrue, and causes a great deal of suffering
I'm sorry you feel this way. If faith is as useless to you, as say, a tampon is to me, then I truly offer my condolences. However, I refuse to let my inability to use a tampon cause me to try to persuade to using them for their personal satisfaction and comfort.

Savage Love a couple of weeks ago could teach you how to use a tampon, assuming you're male. And don't feel sorry for me, i feel no grief for my lack of faith or use for such.

and anxiety to those living as natural human beings at one time free from the corruption of artificial and illogical faith?
Please tell me more of these "natural human beings" you speak of. Also please tell me how your percieved "corruption" is enslaving them. I'm very curious, and want you to educate me.

"natural human beings"... living by the drives evolution instilled within us. A certain amount of self-preservation seen by the faith-based populace as greed, selfishness, heathenism, etc. Seeking earthly bliss rather than foregoing it for a hereafter which may (my opinion will) never happen.

how my percieved "corruption" enslaves them: monotheistic persecution of non-monotheistic societies from the advent of monotheism, from the slaughter at canaan to the Jerry Falwell. True it's becoming more and more of a joke, but there are deep running social norms now that restrict a godless humanity's full potiential. Evidenced in communism, socialism, and secular humanism, all godless, all savagely dogma-laced with ideas which ultimately originated from the big three world religions.

LazyDrunk
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 07:23:55 Reply

At 7/1/05 06:44 AM, jobelow wrote: please bear with my alcohol and now sleep-deprivation strained mind, but i'll see what i can do...

It's all good. Currently 5:50am here, and I'm not sober either.


"Prove" is a very loaded word in this realm of discussion. . . and a careful one would replace "proof" with "evidence."

I agree.


on the flawed reasoning behind the Creation movement, why it is not a true science, and how its masquerade under the name of science is harmful to the education of the general public.

The Creation movement, I assume, is the creation in 7 days, according to Genesis? While some religious folk accept it as unquestionable fact, I take it more as a metaphor.


(the definition of experiment might need some clarification to keep this from running into trouble, but i'll do it later if necessary, just for now take my word that other universal origin theories actually can have experiments set up. i guess one school of creationism could too, but the experiment would definitely fail.), over-complexity, "pet-hypothesis" fallacy, pretty much everything in the book.

I'm interested in howabouts these two types of experiments would be conducted. In order to be truly scientifically correct, would not the experiment need to occur in a state of nothingness, currently unachievable in our current universe?



If faith is as useless to you, as say, a tampon is to me, then I truly offer my condolences. However, I refuse to let my inability to use a tampon cause me to try to persuade to using them for their personal satisfaction and comfort.
Savage Love a couple of weeks ago could teach you how to use a tampon, assuming you're male. And don't feel sorry for me, i feel no grief for my lack of faith or use for such.

Yes, I suppose they could. But not originally what the tampon was intended to be used for :)



"natural human beings"... living by the drives evolution instilled within us. A certain amount of self-preservation seen by the faith-based populace as greed, selfishness, heathenism, etc. Seeking earthly bliss rather than foregoing it for a hereafter which may (my opinion will) never happen.

Just as a human can be 'naturally' trained to have an aversion to physical pain or be 'naturally' cut out from any societal influences, the faith-based populace 'naturally' finds solace in the acknowledgement of God. Maybe some do it for the literal "eternal" rewards (afterlife), but I interpret it as a means of living my life well. Even currently, I am indulging in one of life's little pleasures: alcohol. Like many things in life, it can be misused, even addicting and damaging, but it doesn't mean it's forbidden to me. The abuse of it, along with the consequential abuse to my body and possibly others, is. I would not be in an earthly bliss were I to drive home hammered one night and kill a family of four. Some things in life require more discretion than others.


how my percieved "corruption" enslaves them: monotheistic persecution of non-monotheistic societies from the advent of monotheism, from the slaughter at canaan to the Jerry Falwell. True it's becoming more and more of a joke, but there are deep running social norms now that restrict a godless humanity's full potiential. Evidenced in communism, socialism, and secular humanism, all godless, all savagely dogma-laced with ideas which ultimately originated from the big three world religions.

I can honestly see where this comes from, and how it's affecting humanity. You're right about the existance of all those things above-mentioned.

I don't believe they truly reflect what's at the core of each of the big three's religions, however. I view my own personal religion (just faith, I guess...for lack of a better description) as a way to better understand and exercise the core values that religion offers. Basically, to be a good, honorable, happy person. If I can accomplish that much with my life, I'll have lived my "eternal bliss".

Yes, this raises the argument that humanity is capable of much more than merely making it through life without aspirations to acquire something that is currently unobtainable...... like exploring the galaxy or overcoming humanity's nasty habit of wiping out huge factions of itself. But also, it may not be my personal goal to solve these dilemmas and circumstances, but it may be somebody elses. Their goal in life could be identicle to mine (be a good, honorable, happy person), and yet for them to achieve those goals, they would want to invent a form of interstellar travel or delve deeper into the human psyche to better understand how we tick. Their own drive to succeed in this way, devoid of all religion, would still be similar to my goals.

And then, there are conflicts where I would fight for what I believe in, and what others would deem purely innocent. Who's to say where the line is drawn that shouldn't be crossed? Murder, the death sentence, an abortion, stem-cell research or celibacy? Where to draw the line is where most of the conflicts that plague mankind come from. How can you logically solve this situation? Two ways come to mind, neither of which I would support.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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karriston
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 07:34:24 Reply

As some smart person on NG said, (can't remember who) God is an imaginary friend that the whole world shares


...

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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 07:49:41 Reply

Ficking A. this is actually mature, respectful, mature conversation. are we still on newgrounds?

At 7/1/05 07:23 AM, -LazyDrunk- wrote: The Creation movement, I assume, is the creation in 7 days, according to Genesis? While some religious folk accept it as unquestionable fact, I take it more as a metaphor.

Right on about what I mean by the Creation movement, but beyond their dogma, the important part is it's an anti-science movement aimed at swaying public sentiment away from big-bang and evolution with psuedoscientific reasoning. Very dangerous to the intellectual well-being of the lay-public.

If you take it as metaphor, and yet you still consider yourself a theist, what exactly are your literal views on creation?

I'm interested in howabouts these two types of experiments would be conducted. In order to be truly scientifically correct, would not the experiment need to occur in a state of nothingness, currently unachievable in our current universe?

okay, here's a major crux of this whole argument. A creationist asks "how do you reproduce creation? You can't start with your own blank universe can you?"

This would be a macro experiment covering every aspect of the affair, which I admit would be pretty difficult, to use a mildly ironic understatement, so the solution is to undertake micro experiments. I'm not conscious or unlazy enough to dig up and present actual examples (but i asure you they do exist and have been performed), but the general concept is to make a minor prediction based on one hypothesis ("if big bang happened, then this trend in this general field should go in this direction"...research said trend, see how well it followed the prediction.)

I know it may be hard to accept this prediction/assertion method as experiment, but it follows all the requirements of an experiment, and is used in the field when lab experiments are not feasible. These types of experiments have been used to prove the fact of evolution, and i could give general examples to drive the point home if you need.

Yes, I suppose they could. But not originally what the tampon was intended to be used for :)

while not feminist, I hold the belief that "feminine" items such as bras and tampon serve mainly as a separatist device to figuratively emasculate the feminine gender. So yeah, on that level, you could emasculate yourself by being forced to use a tampon.

Just as a human can be 'naturally' trained to have an aversion to physical pain or be 'naturally' cut out from any societal influences, the faith-based populace 'naturally' finds solace in the acknowledgement of God.

at, at, ut, hang on right there. My "naturally" is actually natural, over six million years of human evolution, and i don't remember how many years of organic evolution on the whole, life survives by the attitude i've describe and therefore it is an integral part of being alive. Your "naturally" is actually not "naturally", but about six thousand years of social conditioning. That's like saying people "naturally" buy Nike shoes and eat MacDonald's dogfoodforhumans because TV "naturally" taught them to.

:Maybe some do it for the literal "eternal" rewards (afterlife), but I interpret it as a means of living my life well.

You take a pretty liberal interpretation of your religion, which makes you a little off center of my target here.

:Even currently, I am indulging in one of life's little pleasures: alcohol. Like many things in life, it can be misused, even addicting and damaging, but it doesn't mean it's forbidden to me. The abuse of it, along with the consequential abuse to my body and possibly others, is. I would not be in an earthly bliss were I to drive home hammered one night and kill a family of four. Some things in life require more discretion than others.

I don't really know where you're going with this point other than to further relate the fact that you're drunk. Me too. Drunk=good.

I can honestly see where this comes from, and how it's affecting humanity. You're right about the existance of all those things above-mentioned.

I don't believe they truly reflect what's at the core of each of the big three's religions, however. I view my own personal religion (just faith, I guess...for lack of a better description) as a way to better understand and exercise the core values that religion offers. Basically, to be a good, honorable, happy person. If I can accomplish that much with my life, I'll have lived my "eternal bliss".

"good" and "honorable" are pretty relative terms in a pan-religion context. you could just as easily be a buddhist, an atheist, or a satanist and accomplish the same goals through different means.

Yes, this raises the argument that humanity is capable of much more than merely making it through life without aspirations to acquire something that is currently unobtainable...... like exploring the galaxy or overcoming humanity's nasty habit of wiping out huge factions of itself. But also, it may not be my personal goal to solve these dilemmas and circumstances, but it may be somebody elses. Their goal in life could be identicle to mine (be a good, honorable, happy person), and yet for them to achieve those goals, they would want to invent a form of interstellar travel or delve deeper into the human psyche to better understand how we tick. Their own drive to succeed in this way, devoid of all religion, would still be similar to my goals.

You're getting oddly specific here, and i'm having trouble tracking where this is going, but this paragraph specifically, i think i get what you mean, but it's outside our original realm of discussion.

And then, there are conflicts where I would fight for what I believe in, and what others would deem purely innocent. Who's to say where the line is drawn that shouldn't be crossed? Murder, the death sentence, an abortion, stem-cell research or celibacy? Where to draw the line is where most of the conflicts that plague mankind come from. How can you logically solve this situation? Two ways come to mind, neither of which I would support.

One way would be to not draw a line at all, but instead to weigh positive and negative consequences on a pragmatic scale. Relativism is not the evil pop religion deems it to be.

EvilBobTheAlmighty
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 08:05:00 Reply

Because people are afraid of death.

The only time you should be afraid of death, is when your a virgin.

jobelow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 08:07:05 Reply

At 7/1/05 08:05 AM, lordkau wrote:
The only time you should be afraid of death, is when your a virgin.

More true on a biological level that you probably thought.

thelordofcheese
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 08:36:30 Reply

At 6/30/05 10:19 PM, -------Shadic------- wrote:
pointless crap

Point proven.

No t's not

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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 08:55:55 Reply

At 6/30/05 07:49 PM, WhiteClock wrote:
So no one else took that out of context but the Christians and Catholics right?

Well, I didn't say that, but you're still right about the misinterpretation. Of course, I already said it was widely misinterpreted. Many people will say "but your interpretation is only as good as someone else's"... bullshit.

Bullshit for a good reason: Islam uses the Judeao-Christian scriptures as a stepping stone, the base of the Muslim teachings (much like that of the Book of Mormon, only less crazy). That being said, it is also true that there are some details that Muhammad said were mininterpreted or mistakenly recorded erroniouisly in these past scriptures. However, the basic tenets and believes hold firm (according to Muhammad, the prophet of Islam). Now, within these tennets are Ten Commandments, such as "Thou shalt not kill," meaning murdering someone is considered BAD.

Now, the Koran says that Muslims should "fight" those who do not follow the path God has laid for them, and since that path doesn't include murder (and literally fighting doesn't always, in factfor the majority never, lead to death) those that kill in the name of Allah (which, by the way, is the same as Jehova and Yahwey, aka God) are still murderers according to Islam and are not Muslims.

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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 09:02:26 Reply

At 7/1/05 04:37 AM, jobelow wrote:
Level 2: god does not exist. edn. If you sit back and think about it for a minute, it kinda makes sense how dumb it is to believe in such an absurd concept. If you think about this whole elliptical idea of faith and how it makes absolutely no sense but works perfectly for those who choose it, except it adds extra ontological baggage to the human body of knowledge which is totally unnecessary, yeah waste of time.

===========================================================================
===============================

OK, last one, I promise.

*ahem* it depends on what your definition of god is.

jobelow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 09:09:55 Reply

At 7/1/05 09:02 AM, thelordofcheese wrote: *ahem* it depends on what your definition of god is.

That may very well be the one I hate the most.

What kind of definition of god do you want? If you get evidence against the existence of god by one definition, sure change the definition to work around that evidence. Do it ten fold, a hundred fold, make your god smaller and smaller or more and more convoluted. Keep it up to date.

Just proves further that a.) the god concept is a human construct, b.)people cling tenaciously to it like a lost cause, and c.)i totally forgot i'm about to pass out.

thelordofcheese
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 09:52:04 Reply

At 7/1/05 09:09 AM, jobelow wrote:
At 7/1/05 09:02 AM, thelordofcheese wrote: *ahem* it depends on what your definition of god is.
That may very well be the one I hate the most.

What kind of definition of god do you want? If you get evidence against the existence of god by one definition, sure change the definition to work around that evidence. Do it ten fold, a hundred fold, make your god smaller and smaller or more and more convoluted. Keep it up to date.

Just proves further that a.) the god concept is a human construct, b.)people cling tenaciously to it like a lost cause, and c.)i totally forgot i'm about to pass out.

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well, no, god may be everything, or nothing. see hinduism and budhism. just because you are unenlightened does not mean I am wrong. but of course who is to say it isn't the other way around?

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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 09:52:49 Reply

If there is a god, he's pissed at us for being the worst race ever.


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jobelow
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 10:48:46 Reply

"Everything" and "nothing" are already defined as themselves. If you want to stick the god tag on there, go ahead, call a spade a club. What I was saying was exactly that. Once you get to the point that you can call anything god by toying with the ambiguous definition of god, the whole affair is pointless and self-defeating. So say i wanted to believe in god. I need a god I can see, touch, experience personally, so I'm gonna say this can of red paint is god. Of course, the can of red paint doesn't have magical powers, it didn't make people write a book laying down the law for thousands of generations, but that doesn't matter, because it's my personal definition of god. Which is fucking absurd.

Enlightenment or no, this argument doesn't fly. It's even more hollow and elliptical than the x-oid one.

MonkeyShooter
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 11:36:19 Reply

Because hes our almighty god. and my parents make me.


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Light-Rider
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 12:10:59 Reply

YES!!!!

finally someone who worded that better than i can.

AMEN!!!!!!

GoatFace
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 12:29:07 Reply

I worship him because i truly believe he was the one who created all living things....
It's a religion, bitches, so get used to it..... ;)

thelordofcheese
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 12:39:17 Reply

At 7/1/05 10:48 AM, jobelow wrote: some idiotic regurgitation of his uneducated vomit

Like I said, read up on Hiduism and Buddhism. You apparently form your ideas without understanding the ideas of other people. You fail at life.

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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 13:08:23 Reply

why shouoldn't people worship god?

LazyDrunk
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 15:11:47 Reply

At 7/1/05 07:49 AM, jobelow wrote:
If you take it as metaphor, and yet you still consider yourself a theist, what exactly are your literal views on creation?

I see it creation as a planned, intelligent design. God saw something had to be done, and He made it so. Maybe He saw there was a need for gravitational laws and various other laws needed to bind what we call existance together. I can't go so far as to provide exact specifications, but He could've very well concocted something as complex and precise as what scientists accredit the Big Bang to. Like baking a cake, He intelligently designed the creation, and possibly, the Big Bang was when he stuck it in the oven to "complete" His little project.


I know it may be hard to accept this prediction/assertion method as experiment, but it follows all the requirements of an experiment, and is used in the field when lab experiments are not feasible. These types of experiments have been used to prove the fact of evolution, and i could give general examples to drive the point home if you need.

Yes, conducting isolated experiments based on proven evidence and comparing the similarities I understand. What I don't understand is why humans are the animals to have evolved in such a superior way that they have no other species on Earth to rival itself. I don't believe we were merely poofed into existance here on Earth, but I believe the design of homo Sapiens superior intellect, from day 1 as an ape, using opposable thumbs to manipulate the world around us, to today as stewards of the planet, was something like frosting on the great cake of creation.


Just as a human can be 'naturally' trained to have an aversion to physical pain or be 'naturally' cut out from any societal influences, the faith-based populace 'naturally' finds solace in the acknowledgement of God.
at, at, ut, hang on right there. My "naturally" is actually natural, over six million years of human evolution, and i don't remember how many years of organic evolution on the whole, life survives by the attitude i've describe and therefore it is an integral part of being alive. Your "naturally" is actually not "naturally", but about six thousand years of social conditioning. That's like saying people "naturally" buy Nike shoes and eat MacDonald's dogfoodforhumans because TV "naturally" taught them to.

I disagree, on the grounds that our ancestors of millions of years ago had no thought or knowledge of the vastness of their surrounding universe, large and small. The further we dig into atoms and deeper we reach into space, the more organized chaos we see, harnessed somehow. Our ancestors knew only of survival, which they excelled at. Once they no longer had to worry about day to day survival, it opened the door to all the intricate introspection that came with all that free time.



You take a pretty liberal interpretation of your religion, which makes you a little off center of my target here.

I could see that after your second post, but this discussion has gone better than I could've ever hoped to have in the General forums. Check out the Politics section sometime, this type is common there.

My allignment with faith's side, rather than strictly the scientific approach, is that I know many of the people around me would be truly miserable if they did not have faith. Some people really, really need it, to cope, to guide, to give thanks. Right now, there is no substitute for what religion does for them. It's helps them be better people. I've yet to encounter, personally, the nutcases who bend and warp what I believe religion was intended to be.. a foundation to grow upon.

Sadly, zealots and nitwits, along with the imperial structure of some religions, severely works against the notion that religion is a personal thing. I don't need to be sat down every Sunday and preached to about the trials and tribulations, the lessons learned via the Bible/Koran/whatever, because I can go out on my own and extract the meaning for myself. I think religious organizations have been exploiting some souls who're just looking for guidance. But then I also see that some people need to be there every Sunday to learn, because they either don't have the time, conviction or ability to do it on their own. Religious leaders have enormous power, and if used humanely, it can be a very good thing.



I don't really know where you're going with this point other than to further relate the fact that you're drunk. Me too. Drunk=good.

Ha, pretty much.


"good" and "honorable" are pretty relative terms in a pan-religion context. you could just as easily be a buddhist, an atheist, or a satanist and accomplish the same goals through different means.

Exactly. And I have zero strife for anyone who can live this way, regardless of specific religious allignment (or lack thereof).



You're getting oddly specific here, and i'm having trouble tracking where this is going, but this paragraph specifically, i think i get what you mean, but it's outside our original realm of discussion.

More than likely the Jager.


And then, there are conflicts where I would fight for what I believe in, and what others would deem purely innocent. Who's to say where the line is drawn that shouldn't be crossed? Murder, the death sentence, an abortion, stem-cell research or celibacy? Where to draw the line is where most of the conflicts that plague mankind come from. How can you logically solve this situation? Two ways come to mind, neither of which I would support.
One way would be to not draw a line at all, but instead to weigh positive and negative consequences on a pragmatic scale. Relativism is not the evil pop religion deems it to be.

Modern humanity craves order, and drawing lines is how we achieve this order. Ironically, it's where most of our problems are rooted... in those lines we've drawn.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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LazyDrunk
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Response to Why worship god? 2005-07-01 15:25:39 Reply

At 7/1/05 12:39 PM, thelordofcheese wrote:
You fail at life.

Knock it off. Didn't your parents preach to you about not being disrespectful to your elders? It's things like this statement of yours that stiffles the necessary communication that has helped humans become smarter over the years.


We gladly feast upon those who would subdue us.

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