At 6/16/05 11:16 AM, liljim wrote:
Alright, you seem to be missing the princinpal point here in that Newgrounds first flourished as a gaming website. Its grass roots are with games. That's what made it popular.
Let's now see how many games score over 3.0 compared with how many movies score with over 3.0
Games: 3,817/11,329 = 33.69%.
Movies: 17,718/49,219 = 40.00%.
Do we continue to let games developers feel neglected by our audience of voters ... or should we let game developers continue to be disappointed with the results of the monthly voting to a point where they peter out on the site completely? Let's see how the averages compare on who comes to see each type of submission on the site in total:
Movies average views per submission: 15,164.85
Games average views per submission: 89,177.67
Wow, that last stat about the average views per submission is really impressive. I had no idea that games were viewed so much more then movies and you say they are ignored? Your ascertains make even less sense to me now after seeing that.
As for the rest, nice try but no dice. I have covered all of this in previous posts but one more time (and I hope this to be the last time) I will repeat it.
No, I did not miss this principal of Tom opening up the site for games... HIS games! That's what he does, games. So what? Why is this important to it's present state? What does one have to do with the other? I am sure that if Tom had had other interests (like in toon movies) that would have worked for him as well and things would have ended up being similar (if not exact). Am I right? Impossible to say but there has to be more to him then making games and I have to believe that quality (drive, ambition...whatever) would shine through.
When Newgrounds evolved. He could have stuck to his gaming roots but decided on a grander vision. Movies and toons could have been banned altogether. They weren't, he opened the floodgates and let the free market happen. Which also made it the success it today. Movies are just as important as games, either alone is MUCH less effective. I'm not sure why the past is the point. As far as I can see it has no bearing on what is. So why not keep the talk to after the portal was automated. Anything before that just doesn't seem important to this debate.
Your other 'key' point is the rating system. I have already stipulated that movies get higher ratings over the long term for varying reasons. Why are we on this again? However, it did make me check a few things. Games marked under 2 is actually slightlyhigher then for movies (and anything below 1 is less then 2% of the total. Not worth bothering to work out). So the rating divide is actually larger then I thought it was. Interesting, I'm big enough to admit I was wrong to assume that games in general did not score in the low end as much, making up for the lack in the high end. That said...
What does this have to do with anything? Sure, the games get lower scores but they are also viewed six TIMES more (thanks for telling me that). That's certainly a trade off, a HUGE trade off. While movies rate slightly higher from a small 3% of the total, game developers know they are being viewed by many, MANY more people and their stuff is getting out there beyond NG DESPITE their lower rank (that will not change anyway no matter how much money you give a few of them). I don't know about you but that would seem to be adequate compensation to me. Wouldn't you rather have 6 times as many views then a mesially extra point in your score which would STILL put you in the deep depths of Newgrounds generally? The only way to solve their lack of visibility is to fix up the collections (which is finally being done), thanks for that!
Another point, games can lead to deals that have not been done with the toons to my knoledge. Alien Hominid is the most widely known success story but I also know that Ryan Khatam has 'been commissioned to create more Johnny Rocketfingers games' (he said so on his website). He's getting paid to do a sequel to the game he submitted here. Sure, hitting the jackpot like this is rare but has even one animation had so big a prize?
It's really interesting that we look at the exact same numbers here but come to such different conclusions. I can only assume you are nursing a grudge against the 'establishment' that you believe is keeping games down.
Dispite all this, here's the thing, it doesn't matter what the long term scores are. What's important is the daily awards. Everything we've just said up until now is pointless if you don't deal with it.
Obviously, enough people gave good scores to shoot games up, at least long enough that despite their lower eventual ranking they still earn the same number of awards (percentage wise) that movies get. Roughly one fifth. They submit one fifth of the entries, they get one fifth of the daily awards.
The people that get these awards surely cannot complain they are being ignored personally. So they are unlikely to stop their work in despair now, aren't they? Winning cash is also VERY unlikely to boost the long term score of their game. It get's very little publicity, one post and is voted on by a mere 2000 people. Such a small fraction of our daily traffic.Therefore liljim, your stated reason for this change can only be considered bogus.
Games are NOT ignored!
If they were TRULY shunned then how is it possible they win as many daily awards as they do?
Can't answer that can you?
You don't even try.
I'm getting sick of repeating it add nauseam.
All you can do is try to work around it because apparently it's so devastating that if you acknowledged it you know you would have to concede the point.
I will try and not respond to any more of you people imagining you can rebut my posts if you don't deal with this fact. It's pointless.
PS. Just one more thing, can you at least consider my idea? Obviously you are going to split the awards so I'll stop arguing against it but why does it have to be the same number as movies? It's clearly unfair to have 1/5th of the choices get 1/2 of the cash awards. Wouldn't... Okay, 2 prizes get the same goal across and if/when more games win then you can increase the number of cash awards to games. Can you at least think about it? Your all so busy trying to shoot me down to consider this.