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$250 for Best Games

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iscrulz
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 01:32 AM Reply

At 6/13/05 07:23 PM, TomFulp wrote: I got to go on stage at the Hammerstein Ballroom

I saw that and thought ecw ONS.

If we get to vote on games now I thhink Denny would have gotten a better chance of winning I am going look for good games when I am b/p now. hmm ping pong by terry should do good.


£5 man slut for hire. Inquire within

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burnt-pizza
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 02:04 AM Reply

It would be great if there were enough games on Newgrounds for there to be a Games Portal exclusively for games, not like that's going to happen anytime soon though because the games section is so underdeveloped at the moment that it'll take a while for lots of good games to appear

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 02:06 AM Reply

Well, this is all well and good but it seems unfair put games on par with the movies in this way. As Tom said, not as many people submit them. Plus, this act may garner even MORE annoying calls to increase their visibility in other areas. Will we eventually split the daily awards too? I hope not, It would just allow a bunch of lesser games to garner attention. Don't believe me?

Think about it. First off, It's not just the monthly awards where games are supposedly underrepresented, it is the daily awards too and according to the rules. A game has to have been on front page or get a daily award to be in consideration. Since the start of this month or 13 days there has been

3 recorded daily firsts,
1 daily second,
1 daily third,
3 daily fourths and
3 daily fifths placed games for a total of 11 out of a possible 65 these past 13 days!

People, that's less then one game per day (or to put it another way, less then 1 out of 5) that is eligible for the same number of cash prizes as animations, which have to compete against 4 times this number.

Due to the wonderful archives at Newgrounds it's possible to figure out the absolute ratio as well. There has been

1,740 recorded daily first,
1,304 second,
1307 third,
868 fourth and
871 fifth place winners. For a grand total of 6090 since records were kept.

Out if that large total, there are only

335 recorded daily first,
274 second,
252 third,
141 fourth and
160 fifth place game winners. For a grand total of 1162.

Games don't even break the 1,200 mark which they would need to achieve a simple ratio of 5 to 1 and why should they? With the wonders of the archives we can find out exactly how many games have been submitted in out entire history.

There has been 59,939 submissions recorded submissions gathered in all of Newgrounds history. Only 11,200 have been games. Incredibly, if you divide by 10 these total numbers are almost exactly the same as the amount for the top five representation of toons and games that we just went through above. Why, it even appears that games have gotten slightly more awards then their numbers might suggest.

If you were going solely on numbers.

Conclusion:
Games have ALWAYS been submitted at a ratio somewhat less then 5 to 1 when compared to toons. On top of that they have also won awards at almost the same rate as they have been submitted. Less then 5 to 1 again. As the number of awards won to games submitted it essentially equal. We can now see that Tom's assertion that "movies generally score on a higher curve than games" is not correct. According to these number (if you want to get into decimal points) games actually do a bit better then the movies when it comes to awards won to the total percentage of submissions.

So having less the one game per 5 in the daily five is, in fact, historically accurate and completely fair. It stands to reason that getting just 1 game (at most) in the monthly top 5 on average is also appropriate.. It's in line with what has been the case throughout the history of NG.

Saying this was intended to be a games site or trying to get it back to it's roots is simply not realistic to the reality. Movies always have and shall ever be the dominate force in NG. No matter what kind of incentives or tinkering is done. The free market has spoken. Don't try to nanny us get different results simply to please a vocal minority or to make what people submit more in line with what you personally believe it should be. It is what it is and we should all accept that. That's capitalism at it's finest people and, more and more, I find that I wouldn't have it any other way.

Solution:
Giving the same number of monthly awards to games is grossly unfair and I recommend that if this must go though with this (I really don't think you should. The system as it sands, seems fair). Games should get 1 or 2 awards, perhaps 3... maximum! Having 5, the same as movies, is just not proper and can only lead to an unfair showcasing of inferior flash.

I hope this post makes you think a little. Peace out.


Collecting NG's undiscovered gems has been a hobby of mine since 2005. I am curently posting them on my blog.

Feel free to check them out and tell me what you think.

someone-else
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 03:03 AM Reply

Oh shit, this is going to be crazy :)


int experience, posts;
while(experience/10 >= posts)
{posts++};

T-H
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 03:48 AM Reply

I'm helping out on something extremely cool right now. Doubt it will be in the portal for a long tome though :(

BananaBreadMuffin
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 04:21 AM Reply

Ah, I better get started on my game ideas then...

xcloudx
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 05:52 AM Reply

Awsome tom :D


derp

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 05:57 AM Reply

another cool flash contest with even bigger prizes

www.gamesofgondor.com/contest2.html

it's still great to know we're not the only ones hosting such contests

Tommy
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 06:19 AM Reply

At 6/13/05 07:29 PM, Denvish wrote: Godammit. Can I re-submit Overrun II? I really want one of those certificates...

I fell sorry for you Denvish, if overrun 2 had of come out later....

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 06:24 AM Reply

This is a good idea. This all gives me another good idea. Why not have 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th portal awards just for games, and another 5 just for movies. If you do monthly awards, why not do daily awards seperating movies and games. This would be good, because i've seen, including myself, get beat by a 4.3 scoring "anime" or popular type of movie whipped out by some pro animator. My game didn't stand a chance against that.


the events are merely fictional, written, directed, and acted out by all who create them

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 06:59 AM Reply

Sweet, great idea I wish they would do this when Magnetism the game was on the front page.Now that game kept me going.

Steve84
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 07:02 AM Reply

Awsome Idea Tom

jonthomson
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 07:17 AM Reply

Nice one. There's definitely been a lack of great games compared to great movies, hopefully this will rectify that.


SiXFouR.668 EU

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 07:30 AM Reply

don't worry jon, it's being taken care of

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 08:22 AM Reply

At 6/13/05 07:26 PM, Star_Cleaver wrote: That's a great idea Tom. The games on NG definitely need to be showcased more. Making a funny little cartoon may take effort, but making a high quality game with good graphics takes twice the effort. It will be great to see what kind of games authors strive to create now that there is a nice goal to reach.

Best first post ever. Amen.


px hulk.

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UnOriginalWB
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 09:44 AM Reply

aww hell yeah to souping up newgrounds, it is only going to get better from here

totoum
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 10:33 AM Reply

At 6/14/05 02:06 AM, TomaO2 wrote:

:long post

to get into the daily top 5, a game has to be really good, a movie doesn't, it will get more exposure

the original NG was known for pico, assassin, club a seal, all were games, NG was originaly a place to play games, pico the mascott of NG is from a game, tom fulp the founder of NG is known for making games, the most viewed supmission is a game

it's just that over the years games have had less and less attention.

TheChaosDemon
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 10:48 AM Reply

finally, somewhere i can get more free games from...

i wish i wasn't cheap
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 11:15 AM Reply

I'm going to vote for ten flashes for the next votings? That is a lot, but it's good since I find it gives people more of a chance to win. I won't be voting for June submissions since I'll be on holiday, so I can let my friend vote for 5 movies and 5 games. :) Thanks for that update Tom.


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BobbyJenkins
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 11:18 AM Reply

At 6/13/05 08:49 PM, liljim wrote: Try not to dwell on what "could have" been - there's no use in ever wondering, "what if things had have been different", it will only depress you. :)

Pretty sound advice, I must say.


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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 11:44 AM Reply

Wow id better get to frikin work! 250 dollar!!!!!!!!!

Dasneviano
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 12:37 PM Reply

OMG! This is too good to be true!!
Congratulations Tom for playing such an important role in the history of art!


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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 12:55 PM Reply

At 6/14/05 09:39 AM, RC-KNIGHT wrote: At the end of the year, I would be willing to take the top 10 - 15 movies from the year, accordingly to vote number, and create a DVD production of them.

It could be like, "Newgrounds Hit Original Movies: 2005"

I would have to note that only orginal works can be taken.

Just and idea? I am open to sugestions.

RCK

See, some movies made in flash aren't made for DVD's. They'd have to be pure animation. No menus, no buttons, no actionscript. It just wouldn't work.

slimt2100
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 01:17 PM Reply

great idea. many games on this site don't get the credit that they and their creator's should get


Roll Fizzlebeef

me-myself-n-satan
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 01:32 PM Reply

thank god dude!!!1111 i am so glad some new games are going on those outdated game pages thanx dude!!!

Glaiel-Gamer
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 01:46 PM Reply

At 6/14/05 02:06 AM, TomaO2 wrote: a lot of stuff

I don't agree. Look at the top 50 list, maby 2-3 are games? that is not proportionate to the amount of games and movies in the portal.
You left out many key points, my friend.

Adamthebomb
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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 01:57 PM Reply

About how high of a score would be submission have to have to get considered for the $250??

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 02:24 PM Reply

At 6/14/05 10:33 AM, totoum wrote:
At 6/14/05 02:06 AM, TomaO2 wrote: long post
to get into the daily top 5, a game has to be really good, a movie doesn't, it will get more exposure

the original NG was known for pico, assassin, club a seal, all were games, NG was originaly a place to play games, pico the mascott of NG is from a game, tom fulp the founder of NG is known for making games, the most viewed supmission is a game

it's just that over the years games have had less and less attention.

That argument doesn't take into account what I said. There seems to be a common misconception. Newgrounds was NOT specifically devoted to games originally. It was devoted to one artist that happened to also make games. Some artists make games as opposed to movies ya know. That's a HUGE difference. What if Tom had been an animation maker? Would it then have been okay to say that games are neglected because this place was originally for animations solely? That's just as bad.

However, when he opened it up to everyone, he could have made it a showcase for games exclusively. He could have just forbidden movies altogether. He did not because he wanted it to be open to ANYTHING flash could do. It evolved being past being Tom's private showcase into a forum for flash animation of all kinds. As well as other stuff. We got claymation, live video, even hand drawn, pencil and paper anime that was scanned in. The before and after situations arn't even in the same ballpark, you can't possibly compare them fairly.

Let me repeat, when Newgrounds automated the portal it was essentially a total remake in operations. You can't possibly give a fair comparison the two periods. You may as well say that Nintendo should get back to it's 1889 roots as a maker of paper playing cards. The two DON'T compare!

So lets talk about what happened after.

I'd be willing to bet that within a month of opening the site to public submissions. The portal was already flooded with many, MANY more animations then there were games. It would be hard for me to prove this but the archived numbers seem to bare this out. So basically, throughout it's automation, portal entry on Newgrounds has been predominantly about animations. We, of course, can and should honor the humble roots of this fine website (such as looking up to Pico, our official mascot) but not get taken up by things that just don't compare anymore.

As I have stated, according to the archives, if you add up all the games ever submitted it comes to in-between 1/5th to 1/6th of the total. If you add up the number of awards given out it comes out to in-between 1/5th and 1/6th of the total as well and if you add up the number of games that have won awards since the beginning of the month AGAIN it comes to a ratio of in-between 1/5th to 1/6th. In fact the number of games that have won awards is slightly better, ratiowise, then the number of games submitted and portal awards came AFTER

So, far from games becoming less and less prominent, they have actually been at an EXTREMELY steady minority ever since the portal automated and have won awards at the same (or at a slightly higher) ratio as they have been published ever since the portal was automated. Furthermore, as my most recent study has shown, this ratio is the same now as it has been historically. Saying that games have been becoming less and less important over the years just fails to address the reality.

This ratio is just not likely to change.

Let's not imagine things as they could be if only some tinkering is done.

Lets not tinker period.

and finally, totoum, if you or anyone else disagree with me try to some up with something better then before the portal was automated, games... I hope I have made this clear (after repeating it a dozen times, sheesh)
THEY DON'T COMPARE!!!


Collecting NG's undiscovered gems has been a hobby of mine since 2005. I am curently posting them on my blog.

Feel free to check them out and tell me what you think.

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 02:50 PM Reply

Your remark about NIntendo going back to making playing cards doesn't add up with NG's movies vs. NG's games. Games are the future, movies aren't. Movies are for the masses of idiots who have no skill and can't play games, nor are smart enough to appreciate the code and hours of testing and debugging that went in to make the game fucking work!

Also you speak pretty matter-of-factly about NG's history, where NG is going, and NG's purpose, for someone who joined 2 months ago.

I've been on NG since early 2000 and I've watched the site grow and evolve. And I commend Tom for recognizing games in this way, as games are NG's past AND it's future.


I put the "funk" in function()

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Response to $250 for Best Games Jun. 14th, 2005 @ 03:25 PM Reply

At 6/14/05 01:46 PM, Glaiel_Gamer wrote:
At 6/14/05 02:06 AM, TomaO2 wrote: a lot of stuff
I don't agree. Look at the top 50 list, maby 2-3 are games? that is not proportionate to the amount of games and movies in the portal.
You left out many key points, my friend.

Yea and the worst flashes of all time are predominantly animations too. Also, the turd of the week is usually an animation.Therefore games MUST do better then animations.

You see the faulty logic?

The top fifty is an ever changing dynamic and not really a key point at all. If you start there then you have to talk about the Popularity rank , Top 50 Artists, Top 50 Most Bookmarked Artists, the Review Crew Pick... plus all those user made lists. Best just to set aside the entire mess.

What's important is the dailyportal awards (I also leave out the weekly awards as I don't think that's as relevant and is pretty well covered in the daily awards anyway). This is where I am focusing. When you win on of these awards it's won and it stays there, unchanging for as long as this site shall run. Try telling me an ACTUAL key point I missed or maby another set of numbers which dispute what I have shown. so far no one has so we should assume the are correct. IF the numbers are correct, then I don't see how you can some to any other conclusion then the one I did.

RiftMaster, your post had nothing meaningful to say but I will mention that while I have not been officially a part of NG for more then two months I assure you I have been looking around here for a few years now it's not nice to make snap judgments on people.

That's like me saying you couldn't POSSIBLY have been very interested in the going on's of newgrounds as your experience level is the same as mine (with all those years extra you had to get them and you write about .2 posts a day. that's a pretty unfair assertion isn't it? Please don't make them about me.


Collecting NG's undiscovered gems has been a hobby of mine since 2005. I am curently posting them on my blog.

Feel free to check them out and tell me what you think.