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At 11/25/05 07:24 PM, Lidov wrote:

As you may know, they are now a democracy, if the leader (currently Abu Mazzen) would like to remain as it is, he should make the citizens feel god. He cannot spend the money on terrorism while the citizens are poor and hungry and such.

If it is in democracy right now, why aren't they there own country now? Or am i missing something here?

Actually, the first link isn't even about EU aid to the PA -- it's about the new PA financial minister.

Good for you, you can selectively read. That's better than I thought you were capable of. Surrounding the discussion of the new PA finance minister is the reason that the US and some EU nations demanded that he be put in place: massive corruption and use of foreign aid for terrorist reasons. Look dude, if you're going to claim that you're responding to the articles I'm posting, then actually respond to them, instead of just flat out lying about what they say.

:And the second link is about the PLO.

The PLO controlls the PA. It's been that way since the PA was created as a result of the Oslo Accords in '93. Burned again, chump.

:Finally, the third article (at a pretty funny website, btw) deals with EU aid to the PA (and half of the info is either unsourced, sourced to dead links / random articles which have nothing to do with the topic, or related to a by now completely junked article in Die Zeit).

First off, don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to indict a well written article in one of the most well-respected foreign policy publications in the country for being poorly sourced when you've had no sources for your arguments since we've started? Secondly, EU aid to the PA is what we're talking about. Third, those aren't dead links, they're anchors. The links on the right take you to the part of the article with that heading. I didn't realize that, in the course of this argument, I'd have to teach you how to use a website. Hopefully, one day, your little squirrel brain will be able to encompass the idea.

Re: Die Zeiit article: proof?

Ys, I do trust the PA, if you want to schieve something in deplomacy, you must have trust your enemy.

Even when, every time you trust your enemy, they sneak across a couple terrorists to blow htemselves up in a mall, or to slaughter a family of settlers as they sleep.

:The PA are not buying any weapons for the terror groups, this claim is unbased, unproved and illogical, the PA has no reason to give weaponary to the terror groups.

See above. There's a whole side discussion re: this.

:Yasser Arafat is a corrupted leader, everyone knows that, the currnet authorities are not like Yasser at all.

Actually, the rhetoric coming out of Abbas isn't that different from that which spewed from Arafat.

:The fact is that the PA will not spend the money given to it on terror, while it has to develope a lot more importent things.

Sure they will. Nothing stopped them, or the PLO, from funding an extensive terror network inside Arab-occupied Israel at any point in their history before today. Why should we believe that things are any different now?

:As you may know, they are now a democracy,

Yeah, they're a democracy. So is Egypt, so is Iran. People vote there, but it's hardly a free election, and, the reality is, terrorists control more of Arab-occupied Israel than the PA does, either directly or indirectly.

At 11/25/05 08:26 PM, DMXRoid wrote: Even when, every time you trust your enemy, they sneak across a couple terrorists to blow htemselves up in a mall, or to slaughter a family of settlers as they sleep.

Hell no! It is a good thing that they don't do it! The PA is trying to fight for the Palastine liberation without any terror acts, this is good for them and for us. That is the reason I trust the PA, this is the reason Israel trusts the PA.

See above. There's a whole side discussion re: this.

See above. They have no reason to buy weapons to the terror groups, the terror groups are getting money and buying it themselves.

Actually, the rhetoric coming out of Abbas isn't that different from that which spewed from Arafat.

It is very different!

Sure they will. Nothing stopped them, or the PLO, from funding an extensive terror network inside Arab-occupied Israel at any point in their history before today. Why should we believe that things are any different now?

Seriously, you are a too suspicious person, the PLO is not trying to free Palastine by terror groups. The PLO is working in a whole other, diplomatic, political way, we have nothing to fear from them. BTW, the PA and the PLO are very different...

Yeah, they're a democracy. So is Egypt, so is Iran. People vote there, but it's hardly a free election, and, the reality is, terrorists control more of Arab-occupied Israel than the PA does, either directly or indirectly.

Yeah, they maybe won't be such a good democracy evantually, but the first elections are never faked. Also, it doesn't change the fact that they won't spend the money given to them on the terror groups which are working against the current govt.

At 11/25/05 08:11 PM, DMXRoid wrote: Good for you, you can selectively read. That's better than I thought you were capable of. Surrounding the discussion of the new PA finance minister is the reason that the US and some EU nations demanded that he be put in place: massive corruption and use of foreign aid for terrorist reasons. Look dude, if you're going to claim that you're responding to the articles I'm posting, then actually respond to them, instead of just flat out lying about what they say.

Your articles don't have much relevance today. That's the problem.

The PLO controlls the PA. It's been that way since the PA was created as a result of the Oslo Accords in '93. Burned again, chump.

The PLO is a political party. The EU does not donate aid to specific parties.

First off, don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to indict a well written article in one of the most well-respected foreign policy publications in the country for being poorly sourced when you've had no sources for your arguments since we've started?

Sorry, I was talking about the third article in your second google pull. But calling some random website you pulled "one of the most well-respected foreign policy publications in the country" is a bit ludicrous. Honestly – neither you nor I ever went to "cfrterrorism.org" before this thread.

Secondly, EU aid to the PA is what we're talking about. Third, those aren't dead links, they're anchors. The links on the right take you to the part of the article with that heading. I didn't realize that, in the course of this argument, I'd have to teach you how to use a website. Hopefully, one day, your little squirrel brain will be able to encompass the idea.

Check out the biocom links at the end of the article, genius. When I say links, I mean links. Not anchors.

Re: Die Zeiit article: proof?

Thanks for asking.
http://europa.eu.int../patten/sp02_293.htm

"...But I have to say that a recent article in a reputable German newspaper, which is repeated to a considerable extent in an American-owned newspaper today, did no service to that newspaper's reputation - nor did that newspaper's refusal to publish a reply to its allegations. If any colleagues wish to see the reply that we would have liked them to publish, I will make it available to members of the Committee.

Now, I could go through that article in even more detail. I could deal with some of the insinuations in the article - for example those about the IMF's representative in the Palestinian territories - but I want if I can to deal with some more positive elements today. I'll just make one point - the factual inaccuracies in the article are spectacular. To talk about 4.1 billion of EU funding in the Palestinian territories when the real figure is 1.4 billion is more than a slight error of fact, and again and again and again there are errors like that in the article...."

Your articles don't have much relevance today. That's the problem.

Why? Because you, the Great All-Being, have decided that that's the case? Please, deliver unto us your wisdom. Until then, all you're saying is "I can't really answer them."

The PLO is a political party. The EU does not donate aid to specific parties.

No, it doesn't, but it does give money to the PA, which is controlled by the PLO. What part of this is giving you a problem? If a terrorist organization is the controlling faction of a government, and you give money to that government, you just expect that the terrorist organization won't use that money for their own purposes? Or, even if you do accept that they'll use the money for their own purposes, do you believe that this somehow absolves the EU or the PA of any responsibility, because they aren't directly giving money to the PLO, but instead writing a check that says "PA" on it?

Sorry, I was talking about the third article in your second google pull. But calling some random website you pulled "one of the most well-respected foreign policy publications in the country" is a bit ludicrous. Honestly – neither you nor I ever went to "cfrterrorism.org" before this thread.

Maybe you pride yourself on not reading anything, but I have read both the publication and the website of the Council on Foreign Relations, the parent body that owns the cfrterrorism site, on multiple occasions, and have also read articles on cfrterrorism. The fact that your reading list is small and hardly inclusive isn't an indictment of mine, or of any publication.

Check out the biocom links at the end of the article, genius. When I say links, I mean links. Not anchors.

Are we talking about the same article here? The CFR Terrorism one? Because all I'm seeing at the bottom of that article (on either page) is the typical "Print This", "Go Home", "Print the Sources" links, and hte "Print the Sources" link only has one URL (that I see), at the bottom, pointing to a UN page.

Re: Die Zeiit article: proof?

Thanks for asking.
http://europa.eu.int../patten/sp02_293.htm

OK, I read through the article, and, honestly, I'm not impressed. It's a self-serving speech by the Commissioner of the study into EU funding the PA where he simply re-iterates the conclusions the Commission came to in the first place. Secondly, while he does respond to the claims the German paper made, it's hardly reasonable to assume that every document since then which criticizes the EU funding of terrorism in Arab-occupied Israel is based on that, and not on independant research. In fact, there's no evidence to assume that that's the case at all. This is not a compelling document, in the face of the publications which I provided which directly refute the claims made by the Commission. However, thank you for providing the link to the speech.

At 11/27/05 04:37 PM, DMXRoid wrote: Why? Because you, the Great All-Being, have decided that that's the case? Please, deliver unto us your wisdom. Until then, all you're saying is "I can't really answer them."

Because half of them were from years ago, talking about different subjects, with a single sentence or two about the PA. For instance, the first one is talking about the installment of a new finance minister.. Two or three years ago. What am I suppose to "answer"?

Yes. Yes, I admit it. The PA put a new finance minister into power. OMFGOSH.

No, it doesn't, but it does give money to the PA, which is controlled by the PLO. What part of this is giving you a problem? If a terrorist organization is the controlling faction of a government, and you give money to that government, you just expect that the terrorist organization won't use that money for their own purposes? Or, even if you do accept that they'll use the money for their own purposes, do you believe that this somehow absolves the EU or the PA of any responsibility, because they aren't directly giving money to the PLO, but instead writing a check that says "PA" on it?

Again, the EU and IMF have stringent guidelines on where the money can go. It can't go towards benefiting any single political party. That would be interfering in the democratic process. EU money goes towards structural reforms, basic infrastructure. Building schools, teacher salaries. They spent millions running the successful elections which took place after Arafat kicked. A government, and the political party which is currently in power, is not one and the same. The American government is not Republican. K?

Maybe you pride yourself on not reading anything, but I have read both the publication and the website of the Council on Foreign Relations, the parent body that owns the cfrterrorism site, on multiple occasions, and have also read articles on cfrterrorism. The fact that your reading list is small and hardly inclusive isn't an indictment of mine, or of any publication.

Congratulations. What a coincidence that it came up on your random google pull, huh?

Are we talking about the same article here? The CFR Terrorism one?

Biocom. I explained that I was originally talking about the third link in your second list. Biocom. Nevermind.

OK, I read through the article, and, honestly, I'm not impressed.

I'm sorry.

You know, you aren't making any sort of a case by constantly attacking me and throwing illegitimate sources in my face. Making your opponent disgusted does not constitute "a win".

heres a bettur question: WHY DO SO MANY PPL HATE JEWS????????? it boggles the mind how these ppl hate jews for no reason!!!!! Why, just last week, this fag was totally ripping on this jewish kid, and i let that jerk have it!!!! right hook to the face!!!!! sent his crying ass home, I did. I dont think he'll be ripping on Jews anymore. oops. forgot the question, so here it is:

I have heard that theres really no such thing as a Palestinian. All they are are arabs. I have even heard that the Palestinian cause is just a mass arab conspiracy to give ligetamacy to the destruction of Israel. Is this true??? Does any1 know what im talking about???

At 11/27/05 05:26 PM, boomheadshot1 wrote: I have heard that theres really no such thing as a Palestinian. All they are are arabs.

Palestine is the part of Transjordan west of the Jordan river (the light brown area on the map). The people who have historically (for at least 900 years since crusaders ethnically cleansed the land around 1100 AD) been living there are referred to as Palestinians. They are Arabs just like Iraqis, Saudis, Syrians and others. Israel was founded in Palestine in 1948 although an independent Palestinian state had never existed before. I think that's what people mean with "there is no such thing as Palestinians". The people who lived there had the right to get the land IMO but that's up for discussion.

I have even heard that the Palestinian cause is just a mass arab conspiracy to give ligetamacy to the destruction of Israel. Is this true???

No. Get real.

At 11/27/05 05:39 PM, lapis wrote: Palestine is the part of Transjordan west of the Jordan river

Bleh, Palestine is the land west of Transjordan and the Jordan river

Sorry for the double post.

Because half of them were from years ago, talking about different subjects, with a single sentence or two about the PA. For instance, the first one is talking about the installment of a new finance minister.. Two or three years ago. What am I suppose to "answer"?

Yes. Yes, I admit it. The PA put a new finance minister into power. OMFGOSH.

Did you perhaps read WHY they have a new finance minister? Because of the corruption and support of terrorism that has been the calling card of the PA, the US and EU demanded a new finance minister. I'm sorry if you're incapable of reading an entire article, but the reasons are clearly spelled out.

Also, the EU investigation was done in 2002, so, yes, they are from years ago, because that's when the Commission did its study. I don't know why it's hard for you to absorb the idea that, when you're talking about a subject whose main point occurred a few years ago, that the relevant evidence would also be a few years old. And, most importantly, in the face of your absolute lack of any evidentiary support for your claims, the "OMFG UR ARGS R OLD" bit doesn't fly.

Again, the EU and IMF have stringent guidelines on where the money can go. It can't go towards benefiting any single political party. That would be interfering in the democratic process. EU money goes towards structural reforms, basic infrastructure. Building schools, teacher salaries. They spent millions running the successful elections which took place after Arafat kicked. A government, and the political party which is currently in power, is not one and the same. The American government is not Republican. K?

Wow, I can't tell if you're being naive here, or are just ignoring reality because if you acknowledged it, it'd make you look bad.

Yes, in most countries, where you have an actual free government that is controlled by the peope and not by a band of thugs, the party running the government is not the government. However, in almost every Middle Eastern nation, the ruling party is inseparable from the government. Look at the Ba'athists in Syria and Iraq, or the governments of Saudi Arabia or Iran. The Palestinian Authority is NO different from these governments, in that the PLO is the ruling organization, and it spends the money where it wants to, demands of international bodies aside.

And, as much as you might wish that the EU and the IMF can simply establish fiscal legitimacy and transparency by fiat, that's horribly, horribly wrong.

Congratulations. What a coincidence that it came up on your random google pull, huh?

I don't see what your point is here. You're claiming that I haven't read anything from the CFR, or from the CFR's terrorism site because it came up in a Google search? If anything, that only bolsters my point that it's a highly respectable publication. You're sort of losing here, son, you might want to rethink your strategy, starting by admitting that you're not so much of a reader.

You know, you aren't making any sort of a case by constantly attacking me and throwing illegitimate sources in my face. Making your opponent disgusted does not constitute "a win".

By "illegitimate sources", do you mean "sources that I disagree with and don't really have the ability to respond to because my debating strategy consists entirely of spouting off at the mouth about things that I really don't know a lot about"?

No, you're right, making your opponent disgusted doesn't constitute a win, but making them unable, or at the very least, unwilling, to respond to any of your arguments in any fashion does. I'm ahead in this debate by a lot, dude. I'm at least responsive to the psuedo-arguments that you're making, I'm at least providing some evidentiary support for what I'm saying, and I'm at least consistent in my argumentation. I don't know what you'd call it when the person you're debating refuses to answer your points, and then claims that he's refusing to answer them because he's disgusted, or whatever, but in my book, that's a win for me, and a poor, poor showing for you. Perhaps you should come back and play this game when you're ready for prime time.

At 11/27/05 05:57 PM, DMXRoid wrote: Perhaps you should come back and play this game when you're ready for prime time.

lmao.

At 11/27/05 05:26 PM, boomheadshot1 wrote: heres a bettur question: WHY DO SO MANY PPL HATE JEWS????????? it boggles the mind how these ppl hate jews for no reason!!!!! Why, just last week, this fag was totally ripping on this jewish kid, and i let that jerk have it!!!! right hook to the face!!!!! sent his crying ass home, I did. I dont think he'll be ripping on Jews anymore. oops. forgot the question, so here it is:

Well, I have no idea why people hate jews, I believe that the racists needs no reasons to hate a certain race or nation. Like in Europ in the 18th-19th century, the Anti-semites said tha the Jews are reach, taking the jobs of the regular Europian. However, most of the Jews were even poorer than most of the Christians. They said that we have no culture and that we only live from others' cultures. However, this is not true either, because we have a lot of culture (bible, religion, art etc.). So I guess that the anti-semite were just too dense to check if those things are real or not, they were just excuses to hate us.

I have heard that theres really no such thing as a Palestinian. All they are are arabs. I have even heard that the Palestinian cause is just a mass arab conspiracy to give ligetamacy to the destruction of Israel. Is this true??? Does any1 know what im talking about???

Well, there was no Palastine until after the seperation program in 1947, only then was when they started to say that they are seperated from the other Arabs. However, they are not, they are arabs which live in Israel, nothing more. If you would have asked a Palastinian before 29.11.1947 what nation he belongs to, he would have answered Arab. About that theory of yours, I am not sure that it is right, it sounds pretty stupid...

Since I didn't find any better place to post that in and i thought that it is necessery to post, I will post it in here.
As you may know, Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, is the head of the winning party in the past election "The Licud". At the past elections, the right winged party "the Licud", which is in it's idiology against the evacuation, won in the elections with about 40 mandates (out of 120). The biggest left winged party "The Avodah", got only 19 mandates. After it, the third biggest party "Shinui" got 15 mandates.
Sharon, the head of the Licud, as you probably know, made a very revolutionary act in it's party's idiology. He was the one to lead the evacuation, which as I mentioned before, is not the most Licudic thing to do. The Licud is being controlled by thousends of corrupted guys which came to their position in order to improve their financial position. (You may think I am saying it just because I am not in favour of the Licud, but it is so correct that it is almost sad). In the hands of these corrupted guys, the ability to decide who will get into the list of the party in the first place, second, third etc. In "Democratic" elections, those people can decide what the Mandates will vote for and against, and if they doesn't do it, they will probably get out of the next list. That way, the mandates, which were chosen by the citizens, are controlled by a bunch of corrupted craps. Sharon fell a victim to this horrible way of organization inside the party.
Sharon, which wasn't so beloved in his party, for an understandable reason, after the evacuation, knew that he will lose the leadership of the party in the next primeries. That is not because of the fact that the people who voted for him in the past elections are against it, but because of the fact that the corrupted craps wants it. Therefor, Sharon has made a decision, he got out of the Licud, which he made, and started a new party "Kadimah". This party in the leadership of Sharon, has so many people from so many parties. Somefrom the right wing, some from the left, some from the middle.This whole party is full of disorder of party members. However, they all have one shared idiology, the complition of the evacuation program with the west bank evacuation. But, as I said before, Sharon is the core of this party, and everyone knows that this party will live as long as Sharon would live. The party has only one destiny, which is to successfully complete the peace process.
In the meanwhile, in the Avodah, a new leader was elected by the less corrupted bunch of people who control the party. The new guy, Amir Peretz, was the leader of 'Histadrut haovdim" (The organization of the workers), many poeple think that he wasn't that good at that job.
When Sharon left the Licud, a natural fight began of who wll be the new leader of the Licud. Biniamin Netaniahu, the no' 2 of the party, is probably going to be the new leader of the party. However, there are also 5 or 6 more people which are competing for the leadership of the party.
As it seems now, the new party of Sharon, will get 39-37 mandates and will win the elections. The Avodah, will get, by the polls 27 mandates and will be the second party. The third party will be "Shas", the party of the religious guys which won fourth in the last elections. The fourth will be ''The licud" with 9 mandates alone. Currently, it seems like there more people in the party are trying to win the leadership rather than members themselves. The licud is probably going down this elections, because of the fact that the people is tired from it's policy and way of running. It is the first time since the Licud was called that way that it got less than 10 mandates and wasn't the first or the second party.
So, this whole new disorder in the Israeli politics would probably get organized again after the election in 119 days from now. Anyway, it seems like most of the people are pleased with this new party Sharon made and they say that he is the only one that can lead us to peace now, which is probably true. However, as it seems, it is going to be hard to gather enough mandates to support Sharons new party if it wins the elections. It is also going to be ahrd to do the same thing if the Avodah wins. Anyway it is, it seems like the west bank evacuation will be completed for the licud has no realistic chance of winning the elections, because of the fact that licud is the biggest party which is against the evacuation.
As it seems now, "kadimah" will win the next elections, it will start a government with "the Avodah". However, the Avodah won't get in the governemnt with the Licud so easily, it will be greedy and "black mail" the licud. The Licud would not have almost any power in the next Kensset, something which would let sharon and his party to complete the peace process. However, everything could change in the last moments of the elections or so, that is just the most likely thing which would happen.

Did you know that there's an ethinic group in China called Joutai? (Jews), although they're now more Asian than Semetic, but they still from Isreal. Kubla Khan also demanded that they don't conform to the Chinese culture but keep thier Jewish culture (like Hannaka), so they won't forget about it when the Ayala back to Isreal one day. I think I'm related to some of the Joutais because my family comes from that area. That's so cool!

also the Jewish Kabala teachings are also evident in some Chinese folk religions. We too can make Golums (according to the legends).

i kind of find it neat that the Chinese and Isrealis are genius that invent stuff, or in your peoples' case achieve the Noble award often.

Isreal also invented most of the modern medicens we use today. If only China can get rid of the dictatorship, then people would think of Chinese a bit better as not a bunch of psycotic communists, but inventors too.

another question I have for you. what does L'clam mean? or Maclem? I hear Jewish people say it sometimes, and wonder what do they mean?

At 12/3/05 01:46 AM, hongkongexpress wrote: Stuff

Well, it doesn't suprise me, there are Jews everywhere, I mean everywhere, but I didn't know that there were also Jews in China. There are Jews from Etiopia and India, so I find no reason why there won't be Jews in China. Also, these kinds of questions should be turned to the Jew crew (link in my sig).

Lol, I was reading a few random articles on Haaretzdaily.com and suddenly this advertisement appeared. It's for Efrat, some Jewish anti-abortion movement. Now I don't really care about people pushing their pro-life opinions on others but I found this particular ad to be pretty racist. I mean, if local news stations here ran an ad saying: "If the Negro population in the Netherlands reaches 40%, the Dutch state will be nullified" then all local media and politicians would throw a fit.
The people from Haaretz obviously don't see a problem with this or else they wouldn't have allowed this ad on their site. But this ad (and Efrat as a whole) suggests that Jews are different from anybody else and need to be adressed as a community about their reproduction rates. If I were Arab I'd also be offended because even though you always hear that the Palestinians could have stayed when Israel was founded, this ad implies that they are only wanted in small proportions.

And their choice of words is of course appalling. Replace the word only in the last line by final and one might easily draw historical parallels.

On the topic of PA support for terrorism, and funding of said terrorism, which I was engaged in on this thread a few days ago, I present this:
http://hnn.us/blogs/3.html#2318988

Abbas is giving money to the families of suicide bombers.

At 12/5/05 01:37 PM, DMXRoid wrote: On the topic of PA support for terrorism, and funding of said terrorism, which I was engaged in on this thread a few days ago, I present this:
http://hnn.us/blogs/3.html#2318988

The link with the actual allegations is in Hebrew, which I can't read. Perhaps Lidov would care to roughly translate the article, what sources they use, and what sort of a website it is in general.

You know roid, it'd be a lot easier if you just used an English source, like, say, Ha'aretz.

That is pretty good actually lidov. If the people are actually for the evacuation and for peace keeping, then so be it.

At 12/4/05 02:38 PM, lapis wrote: Lol, I was reading a few random articles on Haaretzdaily.com and suddenly this advertisement appeared. It's for Efrat, some Jewish anti-abortion movement. Now I don't really care about people pushing their pro-life opinions on others but I found this particular ad to be pretty racist. I mean, if local news stations here ran an ad saying: "If the Negro population in the Netherlands reaches 40%, the Dutch state will be nullified" then all local media and politicians would throw a fit.

First of all you must understand that the news paper is not really in favour of this advert, it's idiology is actually against it. Second of all, you have to understand that the publishers of this advert are not representing the regular israeli population, they are extrimist in their political opinion. Third of all, you must understand that the "negros" in Netherland are not similar to the Arabs in israel in any way. The Arabs in Israel has a very different political opinion than the jews, besides, Israel is a Jewish state, that is why she was founded, you cannot ignore that.

The people from Haaretz obviously don't see a problem with this or else they wouldn't have allowed this ad on their site. But this ad (and Efrat as a whole) suggests that Jews are different from anybody else and need to be adressed as a community about their reproduction rates. If I were Arab I'd also be offended because even though you always hear that the Palestinians could have stayed when Israel was founded, this ad implies that they are only wanted in small proportions.

As I said before, the people from ha'aretz are not in favour of this advert, they think of money (which is also not completely right). The Efrat organization, as I said, is a very fanatic organization which doesn't represent most of the population in Israel. Most of the people in israel think elseway than them. Also, this is a Jewish state, it means nothing if it became Arab or so. If tons of Russians would move into germany and will take 400 chairs in the Richstag, I am sure that the germans would see it as a national disaster. Well, why would the Israelis be differ? the only reason that we are in this land is because we are jewish, it is the state of the Jews, not the Arabs. Although I don't agree with Efrat, I can see why they would think that way. However, what they don't understand that it is exactly against their idiology, it says that the west bank should be returned, else, the Arabs population would be larger than the jewish.

And their choice of words is of course appalling. Replace the word only in the last line by final and one might easily draw historical parallels.

Yeah, well no-one is really taking these organizations seriously, everyone knows that they are pretty stupid, they have a dumb idiology.

Well, I do have a little question:

I'm out of the loop on Isreali Politics - can somebody tell me - what's going on?

Is Sharon still in power, or has he been thrown out?

Has he left his party?

---------

What parties are there in Isreal?

At 12/18/05 11:55 AM, Nomader wrote: What parties are there in Isreal?

Let me start with this question if I may. As an American, you would probably find the Israeli party devision a bit different than yours. You, have the Republican party and the democratic, all the others are very small. In Israel, there are plenty of parties with different points of views towards different things. According to the last elections, here is the main parties order (if I remember it well):
The licud- Got 39 or 40 mandates out of 120. It currently says that we should keep the lands to ourselves and not return them to the Palastinians. It won this ammount of mandates when it was led by Ariel Sharon, the current prime minister, who said that he might give the lands back. The second member was Biniamin Netaniahu (Bibi), which is a bit more extrimist and opposes to the evacuation. The biggest Right party.
The Avodah\The Ma'arach- The second biggest party, got 19 mandates in the last elections, when it was led by Amram Mitzna (who quited quickly after that). Currently, it is led by Amir Peretz, and has a pretty socialist opinions. It also believes that we should give the lands back to achieve the peace goal. Perres who was the second member left a few weeks ago to Sharons new party. The biggest leftern party.
Shinuy (Change)-The third biggest party according to the last elections. Got 15 mandates (I think). It simpley says that the Religious parties are ruining the country (which is half true) and that they have to be fought. somewhere between the left to the right.
Shas-Got 10 or 9 mandates and was the fourth party in the last elections. It is the religious party, and it doesn't really matter what their opinions are. they are against the evacuation BTW. It is a right party.
Meretz- An other leftern party, got 7 mandates.
There are also a lot more parties, but I am not going to write all of them, because it is boring and irrelivent.

I'm out of the loop on Isreali Politics - can somebody tell me - what's going on?

Well, I written a pretty long post somewhere in this page, just read it if you want to hear the whole story, I will write it in short here, just in case.
Sharon=the prime minister, who came from the licud, a right party (which often opposes to the evacuation). He was for the evacuation and led Israel to a successful evacuation.
The center of the Licud- A group of stupid guys which are only interested in money. They oppose to the evacuation (although most of the licud voters are for the evacuation).
After Sharon led us to a great evacuation, most of the party was turned against him. Please read the post in the page for further information.

Is Sharon still in power, or has he been thrown out?

No, Sharon decided that the group of rebels is too big and decided to make a new party, which is called Kadimah, which supports the evacuation.

Has he left his party?

Yeah...
He also remains the prime minister of Israel, There are 100 days left till the elections, until then he remains the prime minister. That is, of course, unless at least 61 mandates will agree on an other appropriate prime minister to replace him. In about a week, the keneset will lose it's power, and then only the government will be the ruller of Israel. When this happens, there would be a lot of things that the government won't be able to do, so it is not like dictatorship...
Anyway, if you would like to sum it up in one word, the current political situation of Israel is "disorderisticfullish".

At 12/18/05 12:41 PM, Mattathias wrote:

The licud-

only got one problem, isnt it spelled likud?

heres a question?Wheres the arc of the covonent?

heres another question?Why is there little jews in Ethiopia?

At 12/18/05 07:12 PM, spikemanlock wrote: heres another question?Why is there little jews in Ethiopia?

Well, in the bible the story speaks of the queen of Sva (I am not sure this is how it is spelled in English, but it doesn't really matter). That queen of Sva married king Solomon, they had a few children, and then she got back to the place she came from. The astimations say that Sva is from around Ethiopia, thus her progeny was from Solomon, king of Israel. That is probably why they are jews in Ethiopia.

At 12/18/05 04:58 PM, sylvosthemaccabee wrote: only got one problem, isnt it spelled likud?

Well, I don't think it is, and if it does, it doesn't matter. Licud, is above all, a word in Hebrew, thus I can write it anyway I want in any language as long as you would know how to pronounce it right. So, you know how you should pronounce it, it doesn't matter whether it is a 'k' or a 'c', it still won't change their ammount of mandates :P.

At 12/18/05 07:10 PM, spikemanlock wrote: heres a question?Wheres the arc of the covonent?

We don't know, otherwise we'd have found it.

At 12/18/05 07:10 PM, spikemanlock wrote: heres a question?Wheres the arc of the covonent?

some say under the temple mount but no one really knows

At 12/27/05 11:34 AM, mackid wrote:

At 12/18/05 07:10 PM, spikemanlock wrote: heres a question?Wheres the arc of the covonent?

We don't know, otherwise we'd have found it.

that or you are keeping it for yourself! but then again if it was found it would give your religion a hell of a boost in numbers most likley due to the historical significance and well proof.