IS tweening so wrong?

[CrustClock]

Everyone comes down so hard on tweening. "dum nooby tweener" this and "learn how to do fbf" that. But where would we be without it? Tweening looks great. Everyone has seen Decline and wat tweening can do.

[W35]

Theres nothing wrong with tweening. I use it all the time. A good flash uses a mixture of both though. Thus Im learning to do fbf.

[Astropuff]

At 4/4/05 11:26 PM, sleek0079 wrote: There's absolutely nothing wrong with tweening. Is it great to spice up a tweeny movie with FBF?

Yes.

Tweening is fine, but it can look extremely dead if you do it too much. Combining tweens and some light FBF can make stuff look much better.

[CheveLoco]

tweening combined with fbf makes a nice animation...but most of the people who started using flash think that tweening it's all there's to it just because they are too lazy to read a book or practice fbf..

[Deathbylaxatives]

people really just want to get by drawing 24 frames for an arm moving from the up position to the down position. the fact is that if you want the exact look your going for then your gonna have to FBF. but as far as tweening goes you'll find it's imitations where you will be forced to use fbf to make something.

[Exilechamp]

Since I started animation on paper, I don't really care for tweening too much. It looks awful and cheap. I'll just use it as I would move plates in Combustion.

I love how people bend limbs by drawing a bicep and a forearm, and then they tween it bending. It's so awful looking.

[f0d]

Tweening is NOT wrong and not crappy if you do it right. I use as little FBF as possible in my flashes. It's not because I'm lazy or because I don't know how to FBF. In fact, my first animations were entirely hand drawn on paper so I know how to do it and how hard it is.
I think the advantage of flash is that you CAN tween things. I treat it like a 3d animation program. Create a keyframe, move someone's limb, and WALAH it's animated. That's the great thing about flash, in my opinion. But you have to do it right, so it looks good. I too think that the motion tweening of limbs on a body is stupid, which is why I often use shape tweens instead.
Of course FBF is necessary a lot of the time. Lip synching requires FBF and so does movement. I'm not dissing it because it can look fantastic, like in Prowlies at the River. Making a flash almost entirely in FBF is just unecessary though. Like that Papalote ++ flash. I think that's overkill.

[Toast]

I don't usally use tweening.I think it is necessary to have at least 75% fbf.If youu look at real things,not at flash movies,you never see motion tweening,I mean...fbf looks more reallistic,even if you simply move your hands,it doesn't just move,the fingers move a bit,it doesn't always move at the same speed...Look at the portal,those with awsome score,the best 20,they are made with fbf.The best thing to do is to use f7.

[Denvish]

At 4/5/05 02:40 AM, food1 wrote: Tweening is NOT wrong and not crappy if you do it right. I use as little FBF as possible in my flashes. It's not because I'm lazy or because I don't know how to FBF.

Agreed. It's like people saying that FBF is 'wrong' because they've seen a few crappy n00b stick animations. If you use its full potential, tweening is an immensely powerful tool.

Plus, things like fading or gradual colour changes on backgrounds would be a pain in the ass to do with FBF.

[unownedJR]

Well they're both very different, the more FBF then the more people like it, but the more tweening then the more people are likely to hate it. Frankly I only use tweening for fading into scenes. What a loathe is sprite movies that just have nothing but tweens, it's like a double whammy of ass animation.

[Jesus]

When i started flash i thought fbf was all there was. When i descovered tweening i was like wow! but i don't like it that much anymore. You have a lot more control over the movement with fbf

[NegativeONE]

At 4/5/05 04:48 AM, cybex2 wrote: When i started flash i thought fbf was all there was. When i descovered tweening i was like wow! but i don't like it that much anymore. You have a lot more control over the movement with fbf

Aye, with tweenimation, all movement has to be perpendicular to the viewpoint. This is incredibly restricting. It means pretty much all you get is side view. Watch any such movie and you'll see. Frame by frame is how real animation is done and there's a reason for that. Tweening is there for fades and locomotion.

[cherrorist]

Dismissing any of the techniques is plain shortSighted. It's like saying that 'Play' sucks because it's using rotoscoping, while 'Play' shows how rotoscoping should be done, and it deserves the score it got.
If you look at most of the top-scorers, you'll see they've combined tweening, fbf & sometimes scripted animation.
Mastering all the techs will only help you raise your work to higher levels as you'll know when & what exactly you want to use for the best result.

[TheInfamousTM]

Wow, I didn't know people hated tweening so much.

With my third project I've become fully aware of the limitations motion tweening imposes, but prior to that I was a complete sucker for it.

On the other hand, one of my other projects, I've tried to avoid fbf entirely, replacing it with shape tweening. By hand.

Am I insane? Most likely!

[NegativeONE]

At 4/5/05 05:17 AM, cherrorist wrote: If you look at most of the top-scorers, you'll see they've combined tweening, fbf & sometimes scripted animation.

Well that's the thing. I completely agree with that. It's just that some artists completely rely on one form, which becomes a total crutch. I think tweening has a place in a good animation, but that when it's all that's used, it's very apparent in a negative way, and the animation suffers.

[OzzyMgaow]

There is nothing wrong with tweening.
I make sure not to use too much of it though, as I like to do fbf much more. But its very helpful for things where it would be pointless to do it fbf anyway.

[AloneInTheDark]

At 4/5/05 04:54 AM, NegativeONE wrote:

At 4/5/05 04:48 AM, cybex2 wrote: When i started flash i thought fbf was all there was. When i descovered tweening i was like wow! but i don't like it that much anymore. You have a lot more control over the movement with fbf

Aye, with tweenimation, all movement has to be perpendicular to the viewpoint. This is incredibly restricting. It means pretty much all you get is side view. Watch any such movie and you'll see. Frame by frame is how real animation is done and there's a reason for that. Tweening is there for fades and locomotion.

Not really, tweening can be done very proffessionally too and it certainly has alot of benefits over frame by frame. Look at 'smile' or this one http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=125610
There isnt really a 'right and better' way to animate, it depends on they style and type of movie you want to make

[NegativeONE]

At 4/5/05 06:16 AM, AloneInTheDark wrote: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=125610

Ehh, I like Manuel Fallman, but I don't think that movie is a testament to tweening. The illusion of 3D is neat in some places, but the character animation suffers so much from the tweening. Of course it's side view, which is almost all tweening allows, and it looks kinda hacked together like pretty much all tweened character animation ever.

Japanese animation, on the other hand, uses mostly tweens.

Are you stoned?

[cherrorist]

At 4/5/05 05:22 AM, NegativeONE wrote:

At 4/5/05 05:17 AM, cherrorist wrote: If you look at most of the top-scorers, you'll see they've combined tweening, fbf & sometimes scripted animation.

Well that's the thing. I completely agree with that. It's just that some artists completely rely on one form, which becomes a total crutch. I think tweening has a place in a good animation, but that when it's all that's used, it's very apparent in a negative way, and the animation suffers.

It's like trying to animate fire or smoke using tweens which will return poor results when compared to what you can do with fbf and some patience.
On the other hand, going all fbf on character running across the screen in a single direction is just a waste of time with no real benefits. HitchHiker 2 is one good example on how these can be combined.

I also started using scripting on linear movement (like clouds and similar non-relevant background objects) - saves time & doesn't add to fileSize.
The cool thing about it is that you can add some controlled dose of randomness (size, position, speed) so each viewing is a bit different. No one has to notice that, but I'll know it's there.

[WillPostForFood]

At 4/4/05 11:22 PM, Meistir wrote: Everyone comes down so hard on tweening. "dum nooby tweener" this and "learn how to do fbf" that. But where would we be without it? Tweening looks great. Everyone has seen Decline and wat tweening can do.

heh enyone that sais tweening is for noobs is a noob. some of the greatest animators on newgrounds tween! like legendary frog

[AloneInTheDark]

At 4/5/05 06:41 AM, NegativeONE wrote: Ehh, I like Manuel Fallman, but I don't think that movie is a testament to tweening. The illusion of 3D is neat in some places, but the character animation suffers so much from the tweening. Of course it's side view, which is almost all tweening allows, and it looks kinda hacked together like pretty much all tweened character animation ever.

I dont think so. If you make a character and you layer all the different limbs you can tween him from any direction. You manipulate the sizes of the limbs in the different frames so you can make a walking animation front view too. or diagonal, it doesnt matter.

But like i said, the most important thing is that you chose the right animation technique that fits with your style and ideas. Pustota by animation genius Kol is based solely on tweening (like all of his work). Same with Los Dias Sin Dias. Those flash movies dont ask for frame by frame. I think its not very wise to dismiss other techniques than fbf as inferior, if a creative artist can create masterpieces with them.

[KaynSlamdyke]

I was watching my brother mess about in Flash a few days ago, and was wondering what he was doing. He was making a trail of dominos fall over, in frame by frame. I told him that doing it that way was a needless waste of memory and time, where a tweened and eased movement would create exactly the same effect.

You must all remember, of course, that when Flash was first created no one thought that it would become a huge animation package. As someone said up the thread, none of the techniques should be discounted. Frame by frame is excellent for motion, but most frame by framers end up with low detailed limbs and motion (no one's going to make 24 perfect images for a single second of animation), whereas Tweenimation (gratz to the person who made THAT up) is perfect for detail (due to not needing to redraw the thing), but is not the best thing in the world for range of movement without a few hundred extra symbols and some tender loving care.

And for all those who don't like tweened motion at all, one word. Xombie

[NegativeONE]

At 4/5/05 08:41 AM, AloneInTheDark wrote: I dont think so. If you make a character and you layer all the different limbs you can tween him from any direction. You manipulate the sizes of the limbs in the different frames so you can make a walking animation front view too. or diagonal, it doesnt matter.

In my opinion, any attempt to do so is going to be painfully obvious and weak-looking. It's a nice time-saver though, if you're not concerned with animation and - as someone said - more interested in detail than fine animation. I respect you as an artist, so I'm not gonna fart on your choices in this thread any longer.

heh enyone that sais tweening is for noobs is a noob. some of the greatest animators on newgrounds tween! like legendary frog

Who are you again?

[AloneInTheDark]

Thats ok, i like you too and you obviously have a steady opinion about this matter. Here are the best animations of the last year and you can see all the different styles and possibilities that an artist can create with flash. From frame by frame, to tween, to 3d. I think each style has its charm. Check them out, there are some really brilliant ones :)

http://www.tgsnt.com/tgsnt_II/pca/

[Fierras]

It comes down to this. You have to know where to use it.

Personally I wouldn't do tweening on something that's supposed to look organic but that's really up to you.

What bothers me is that some people depend toomuch on tweening and can even become so dependent that they start having problems surpassing the style that vectorart forces you to take.

[super-moogle]

some tweens do look crap, it makes the characters move like robots.tweens are good in A+ for example

[KaynSlamdyke]

It all just depends on who's doing it. By doing something in frame by frame, you don't automatically guaruntee yourself a world class animation.

This is turning into a "Who'd win: Superman or Batman?" thread...

Personally I think the only way forwards is complete Actionscript Generated graphics. Why are you all staring at me and reaching for the pitchforks? o.o'

[Olly]

Do both

[NegativeONE]

At 4/5/05 10:27 AM, AloneInTheDark wrote: Check them out, there are some really brilliant ones :)

Is that the one that Adam Phillips won? I'll surely check those out when I get back from grocery + liquor shopping.

[severed-fingers]

liquor omg ill be there in a sec. I like tweening , but i agree it's all just a matter of using the right tool forr the job. i mean a lot of cool stuff can be done with just tweening check out www.mudbubble.com for instance and go to the clients list