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I find it funny that when it was thought the cow was born in America the U.S. government said that you could not get BSE from eating the beef but now since they are all Canadian Cows there is all of a sudden a health risk.

At 3/18/05 11:48 PM, snail_262001 wrote: I find it funny that when it was thought the cow was born in America the U.S. government said that you could not get BSE from eating the beef but now since they are all Canadian Cows there is all of a sudden a health risk.

I think the entire mad cow disease stuff went way overboard. I forgot who posted the info on the disease itself, but the risk of people actually getting it was slim to none, and pretty much the only way the cows were getting it was by eating other cows.

At 3/17/05 09:17 PM, Mcdubs wrote:

At 3/17/05 03:39 PM, metalhead676 wrote:

you wouldn't want to see it either, other countries would nuke Americas ass for doing that, and hicks like you would be gone forever.

my hick ass has finished his undergrad in mech eng. finished his masters in FPE, and is working on his PHD. In five years, and all on scholarship. Eat shit and die.

While wasting his higher Educated self insulting teenagers on the Internet. Glad to see your educations is doing so much for you.

At 3/18/05 02:39 AM, The_Green_M wrote: I paying someone $2/h legal? (serious question)

Servers are not paid less than $2/hr, that is quite a hyperbole. They are paid less than minimum wage, yes, but they make a lot of money from tips. Seeing as how the average tip is about 15%, that's a good amount of money. At the end of the day, they make more than minimum wage.

At 3/19/05 12:13 AM, Gunter45 wrote:

At 3/18/05 02:39 AM, The_Green_M wrote: I paying someone $2/h legal? (serious question)

Servers are not paid less than $2/hr, that is quite a hyperbole. They are paid less than minimum wage, yes, but they make a lot of money from tips. Seeing as how the average tip is about 15%, that's a good amount of money. At the end of the day, they make more than minimum wage.

Lmfao, I love how you used hyperbole, Good job asshole. Stop trying to make yourself out to be some high intellectual. And yea, Servers don't get paid 2 dollars an hour, That is a ridiculous statement, And you are a moron for stating it.

At 3/19/05 12:23 AM, TovaryshIvan wrote:

Servers are not paid less than $2/hr, that is quite a hyperbole. They are paid less than minimum wage, yes, but they make a lot of money from tips. Seeing as how the average tip is about 15%, that's a good amount of money. At the end of the day, they make more than minimum wage.

And yea, Servers don't get paid 2 dollars an hour, That is a ridiculous statement, And you are a moron for stating it.

My girlfriend is a server. She get's $2.17 per hour, plus tips. Why don't you actually verify things, before inserting your foot into your mouth, and then all the way into your stomache.

Waiters/waitresses get paid less than minimum wage because their employer expects tips to make up the difference. I never really questioned whether is was "ethical" or not, but I guess it's fair. The employee knows exactly what he/she is getting into... so yeah.

'Why Canada hates the US'. Ok that fine, I got somthing 'Why the US dosn't give a rats ass about Canada'

At 3/20/05 10:03 AM, Maragriz wrote: 'Why Canada hates the US'. Ok that fine, I got somthing 'Why the US dosn't give a rats ass about Canada'

Simple, were not american.

At 3/20/05 10:33 AM, bcdemon wrote: Simple, were not american.

Oh, shut up. No one "hates" you, dude. You're paranoid...

At 3/20/05 10:40 AM, VerseChorusVerse wrote:

At 3/20/05 10:33 AM, bcdemon wrote: Simple, were not american.

Oh, shut up. No one "hates" you, dude. You're paranoid...

LOL, I'm not paranoid, and I didn't say they hate me, I just said america doesnt give a rats ass about Canada because we are not american.

At 3/20/05 11:59 AM, bcdemon wrote: LOL, I'm not paranoid, and I didn't say they hate me, I just said america doesnt give a rats ass about Canada because we are not american.

LoL. Sorry for flying off the handle like that...

I thought America couldn't keep their nose OUT of other people's business. ~.^

So let me get this straight. Most of your friends hate Americans, because of political columnists? You’re all pathetic. I hate to tell ever one this. Americans don’t really give a crap about other countries. Why? we have enough to worry about in our own borders. The way, I have seen most of it. The reason most counties peoples hate us. Is because WE DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU AND WE NEVER WILL. Get over yourselves. The majority of America is against this war we’re in. Why do we care at all? Our families are in it. If we don’t care about them, then what type of a people would we be?

IF, you knew anything about the US Government. You would know that most decisions are decided by our Congress and Senate, NOT the President. Which are picked by smaller communities and not as a whole country. Also, from dealing with Government within your own countries. You should also know as with Americans, all politicians are scum. They lie to get in office they lie while they are in office. About President Bush, Is he a great President? NO, He’s not. Also, neither was Clinton, or Bush Sr. The last decent president the USA had been Regan. He was mediocre at best. Will all kinds of elections world wide. You pick the best one to handle the needs at that time. Gore in 2000, he was just an idiot. Americans also look at personality when making a decision on elected officials.

An invasion from France or Canada? And the “actualy...if canada and the US were to go to war...the french army would be all over US” ??? First off, none of the things any of you are discussing would ever happen. But if it did, First, France would have to get their Armies across the Atlantic and then into our Borders without the US knowing. It's not going to happen. Even if there are French soldiers in Canada, and this I don’t know about. I’m not a Canadian. However, you forget. Most of America is armed. More so then most other countries in the world. There are over Six hundred million Americans, in the USA. About Four hundred million are adults. Can you say just forget about the idea of invading the US with a small army. By the way that is what the Second Ammenment of the US constition is for.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Canadian tippers? Who, what, SHUT UP!, Moron! I know for a fact that there are far worse tippers in the US. No matter how good the service is. Actually, most people who come here from other countries are much better tippers. Idiot.

fuck that blond bicth , SHE is the definition of a dumb blond speaking her mind which is total CRAP. no offensence to other blonds

At 3/20/05 04:30 PM, jeepbad wrote: So let me get this straight. Most of your friends hate Americans, because of political columnists? You’re all pathetic. I hate to tell ever one this. Americans don’t really give a crap about other countries. Why? we have enough to worry about in our own borders. The way, I have seen most of it. The reason most counties peoples hate us. Is because WE DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU AND WE NEVER WILL. Get over yourselves. The majority of America is against this war we’re in. Why do we care at all? Our families are in it. If we don’t care about them, then what type of a people would we be?

This is the attitude that the rest of the world has issues with Americans over. "You're not American, so we don't care about you". Hey, you -should- care, because face it, without the rest of the world America will have a lot more of those "problems" that you talk about that America already has. So you should have some sort of a relationship with the people you do trade with and who help you out when you're in a jam. Also just think, if you got along better with other countries, maybe America wouldn't have as many wars? What a novel idea.

Also, what's so wrong about helping your fellow man? What, simply because someone has the label of "American" they are suddenly more important than any other human being on the Earth? Give me a break, it's only a label.
America = Human Being
Canadian = Human Being
Iraqi = Human Being
Australian = Human Being
Chinese = Human Being
Scottish = Space Alien.... errrr *Human Being
....
See the trend? We're all the same in the greater spectrum of things. Perhaps a little consideration can be a good thing?

NO.. I simply believe if you just mind your own buisness. You won't have any problems. Sorry but, most problems are started because someone got involved where they shouldn't have.

And by saying "we don’t care". That means We don't care if you like us or not. Yes, to me, I think my country is more important to me then the rest of the world. I do care about all people in all nations. However, but it is MY HOME. My family is here. My loved ones are here. So yes, I care more about the USA then the rest of the world. If I was Canadian then I would care more about Canada. If I was from Mexico I would care more about Mexico. Same with if I were from China, Japan, Iraq, don't matter. If you tell me you care as much for the people in another country as you do the people of your own country then you’re a liar. Everyone has a sense of patriotism. If you don't then you are a fool.

Let me ask you this. Why do you hate America and its people? Why do the Middle Eastern hate us? hmm..anyone? Because US citizens, have more money? More freedoms? The abilities to do what we want, when we want? Because, the people of the USA can do foolish things with our money? What?
And on the subject of finances.
Sorry our money may not be worth the most. However, the average American has more money, and more things then most people in the world. Sorry but we do this because, well...WE CAN, and we do. Its just one of the things you have to deal with.

However in the rest of the world. In the past you've let fools like..hitler, bin laden, hussein, and pinochet to come to power. Your militaries and all others followed then blindly to their deaths. IN our country on the other hand. Like I said in my last post. There are over a hundred million people willing to kill the person who would try and dictate the USA (not including the military). And on Bush, no one follows him blindly. Sorry but yes hussein should have taken care of. Now? No, a long time ago. bin laden Is who the USA needs to be after right now. However, we can't just let Iraq be in an unstable state. We do have to take responsibility and finish what we started.

There is nothing wrong with helping our fellow man. However, no matter who you help. Someone else will hate you for it. So your best bet is to just stay out of the way.

Also, if the USA is so horrid, why do so many people flock here every year? People actually try to force themselves into the USA and cry human rights violations when we say no. Is it right to do that? No it isn’t. But WE can't just let everyone become a US citizen. Our cities are crowded as it is. So I'm sorry but, our government is doing a horrible job on watching out for its own citizens.

At 3/21/05 12:52 AM, jeepbad wrote: Let me ask you this. Why do you hate America and its people? Why do the Middle Eastern hate us? hmm..anyone? Because US citizens, have more money? More freedoms? The abilities to do what we want, when we want? Because, the people of the USA can do foolish things with our money? What?

Ohh thats right, were all just jealous of you is that it? And I'm sure your going to say your ignorance has nothing to do with it right? What you want when you want? Pfft, I can do what I want, when I want AND how I want, whats your point?

the average American has more money, and more things then most people in the world. Sorry but we do this because, well...WE CAN, and we do. Its just one of the things you have to deal with.

Are you apologizing to us for USA being a materialistic country? OK, apology accepted. Oh by the way, I own well over 50,000 "things", how many things do you own. lol

However in the rest of the world. In the past you've let fools like..hitler, bin laden, hussein, and pinochet to come to power.

Umm excuse me, you guys supported Mr Bin Laden back in the day. That was another one of your "lesser of 2 evils" thingamajiggies. And umm, wasn't the US in favor of the coup which removed Allende (died during the coup) from power, and who was eventually replaced by Pinochet? Here read this.

And on Bush...

LOL, I'm not even going to go there.

Look man, people dont hate american because of teh reasons you gave, those reasons are lame. Alot of countries share the same freedoms USA shares, sure most won't allow just anyone to buy a gun, but thats for obvious safety reasons.
There are many reasons why people dislike USA, it's just something you will have to deal with. Shit man, did you see the protests against Canada over our annual seal hunt? People all over the world were protesting, not as many that protested your war in Iraq mind you, but alot still.

Two things

How many people live in the US?
Thats right, 293,027,571 (July 2004 est.)
15-64 years: 66.9% (male 97,756,380; female 98,183,309)
Now unless the gov't missed half the population in its ocunt then you my friend are evry wrong. You have half the number of people you claim and half the number of adults you claim. Even your own gov't doesn't agree with you. Don't try and impress me with obviously wrong stats, you probally made them up on the spot without even looking it up. I don't even live in the US and I knew your population.

Second, the rate bars and restraunts pay their servers is the legal minimum wage for that industry. The standard minimum wage does not apply to alls ectors. Seasonly min. wage is lower, so is the server minimum wage. They aren't trying to cheat them out of some of their money, its what the minimum wage is.

Well, I believe bcdemon beat me to the kill, but I think I will impart with you my own views just so you know where I stand Jeep.

At 3/21/05 12:52 AM, jeepbad wrote: NO.. I simply believe if you just mind your own buisness. You won't have any problems. Sorry but, most problems are started because someone got involved where they shouldn't have.

Alright, this is somewhere where I may 'half-agree' with you, in the whole "Stay out of other affairs where you have no business". However, where you do have business that reflects relations, I think a country should be front and center, because maintaining a healthy 'relationship' with the other people on this globe might be a good idea, given that we don't want to create a stong sense of Ethnocentricity, which can lead to other dangers (even though I would say that we are Ethnocentric enough as it is... hence why keeping aware of other cultures is a good idea).

If you tell me you care as much for the people in another country as you do the people of your own country then you’re a liar. Everyone has a sense of patriotism. If you don't then you are a fool.

Hey, of course patriotism is ever-present in all of our minds, it is engrained in us from the day that we are born. But my question to you is... how healthy is patriotism? Yes, it is good to be aware of your politics and societal outcomes/operations, and to fight for your rights within your own borders, but where does it begin to become unhealthy? Perhaps when you value the life of an American (if you're in America) over the life of someone from another country. Perhaps when you begin to think that you are 'better' than everyone else in this world, simply because of where you live. These are the troubles that patriotism can bare, and many more.

Let me ask you this. Why do you hate America and its people? Why do the Middle Eastern hate us? hmm..anyone? Because US citizens, have more money? More freedoms? The abilities to do what we want, when we want? Because, the people of the USA can do foolish things with our money? What?

If you haven't noticed (outside of FOX News), most of the world doesn't "Hate Americans". If you go into Iraq, I can assure you that most Iraqi's don't hate Americans, but are compassionate and understanding because they realize that sometimes the people living inside a country do not necessarily stand for the actions of those in power.
So who is it that we 'hate'? Well, although 'hate' is a strong word, I would say that the majority of Canadians 'hate' your government and how it runs itself, and how it thinks it can run the World. Hell, I even stand up for Americans when it comes to things like the Patriot Act(s) because I think it is unfair that your government should take away YOUR rights for it's own self-purposes.

Sorry our money may not be worth the most. However, the average American has more money, and more things then most people in the world. Sorry but we do this because, well...WE CAN, and we do. Its just one of the things you have to deal with.

Ummm excuse me? That is a rather bold statement. I too can do what I want. I can go to my next-door neighbour, kill them, and steal their wealth. You probably know why I don't... well one is ethics, but the other is the fact that there are laws in place that say I cannot do so. The American government has obtained wealth unlawfully moreso than most other countries I would say, in recent years. Did you ever come to think about -WHY- it is that America holds a vast majority of the wealth? "Hard work and Dedication"? Sure, you could say that... but how ethically did you work with such dedication, and what rules did you break to get so wealthy?

However in the rest of the world. In the past you've let fools like..hitler, bin laden, hussein, and pinochet to come to power. Your militaries and all others followed then blindly to their deaths. IN our country on the other hand. Like I said in my last post. There are over a hundred million people willing to kill the person who would try and dictate the USA (not including the military). And on Bush, no one follows him blindly. Sorry but yes hussein should have taken care of. Now? No, a long time ago. bin laden Is who the USA needs to be after right now. However, we can't just let Iraq be in an unstable state. We do have to take responsibility and finish what we started.

Hussein should have been 'taken care of a long time ago'.... so, what, when he was your ally? When you were selling him arms? Ohhhhh, you mean AFTER you guys gave him all these weapons that brought him into a stronger foothold... Ahhhhh, NOW I see. So an ally of yours becomes powerful to a point where he threatens your 'global position' so then you decide to tell your 'once-ally' to change the way they run their country, even though the problems were there BEFORE, when they didn't hold as much power or status globally. Interesting.

There is nothing wrong with helping our fellow man. However, no matter who you help. Someone else will hate you for it. So your best bet is to just stay out of the way.

So a few problems may arise from helping other countries, and your resolution is to just not help at all. Well, I guess we're going to have to get rid of the UN and let countries just run themselves. Hey, that's what we would have to do if we followed this kind of logic in thinking. Personally, I believe the UN was created for a reason (WWII) as to prevent greater atrocities from happening in the World. But yeah, maybe we would be better without them?

Also, if the USA is so horrid, why do so many people flock here every year? People actually try to force themselves into the USA and cry human rights violations when we say no. Is it right to do that? No it isn’t. But WE can't just let everyone become a US citizen. Our cities are crowded as it is. So I'm sorry but, our government is doing a horrible job on watching out for its own citizens.

Key word that you just said... "Government". I think you've got it!

I'm not going to sit here and say that I agree with my countries Government. That is simply because I don't and I probably never will. The US government never has its own people in mind. See that is my problem with the US government and its helping of other nations. It can't even do it right with in its own boarders. So why should my country try helping any other? Every time the US government tried to help another it usually ended going wrong. Yes I know the USA should do more for other countries. I’m sorry but when the US government says ok here are the options. Either we fight for these people or we upgrade the US health care system, or child education system. Who do you think we are going to want that money spent on? Like I said, I’m sorry but the US government. It really needs to focus on helping its own people. When they get it right, then fine help others. Just make sure they are doing it right. And so far, they are not doing it right.

On helping bin laden in Afghanistan and hussein back in the 80's. I think that is one of the worse decisions ever made. Sure bin laden was happy to get weapons to help fight the Russians. But, he hated who the help came from and hated America even more when he found there was a US military base in his home land of Saudi Arabia.
On hussein, Why the USA helped him against Iran I have no idea and I don't want to know. Our government knew he was a problem when he came to power.

Also in this forum I think you should have made it clear that you hated the US government and not just the US. In the way it is stated is looks very much like you are against its people as well.

how healthy is patriotism? and where does it begin to become unhealthy?

Healthy patriotism, I would say is when you are willing to help your country as long as your country has what is truly best for its people in mind. Or I should say just what is best for others in mind and not themselves. Following them blindly to the death, that is unhealthy. I know many people in the US military who are opposed to its government. None are happy to be in Iraq. Although many of us in the USA do know that this maybe for the best. Although I don't think we should be doing this now. It should have been done in the 90's.
I won’t follow my country blindly. But when someone states they hate the people of my country. Just as I was once would fight to the death for them, I would willingly do the same now. The people that is, not the government. I have been let down by my government on several occasions.

The patriot act, is mostly the brain child of congress and senate. The president started it and gave them the freedom to add to it where they saw fit. And now yes, it’s hurting the American people.

Yes, I do support Bush. Sorry but compared to everyone else who was in office. He is a much better person. The main reason I like him is that he does have some values to him unlike others. The thing is, he doesn't make most of the decisions. That is either done by his advisors, or the congress and the senate. Who are in fact the real problems of the US. The president’s only real power is to go to war. Hence he is titled the commander in chief. He can start the process of making a bill. He can stand against bills, and shoot down a few. That’s about it. The president is basically a spokes person for the people. Honestly most military personnel like president Bush. Why? because he did more for us then clinton. Clinton, took away our benefits, pay, and just about anything else you can think of. Bush, the first thing he did was give all military personnel a pay raise. Yes I know, you should fight for your country because you believe in it. But when the president desicions to make cuts in the government’s budget, and starts cutting the benefits. He becomes hated very quickly. Really the only there was to being in the military was the benefits. Knowing that when you retired you would be taken care of on the medical side. Or if the worse, you died in combat. Your family would be taken care of. Well clinton took care of that, and Bush started to bring it back.

At 3/21/05 02:34 PM, jeepbad wrote: Like I said, I’m sorry but the US government. It really needs to focus on helping its own people. When they get it right, then fine help others. Just make sure they are doing it right. And so far, they are not doing it right.

I understand the part where you say that the government should be spending more on healthcare and education than on unfavourable wars, so there we agree.
As for the rest, I guess it depends on what you and I mean by "helping". When I think of helping, I think of red cross, natural disaster aid, peacekeeping, removal of landmines, etc etc. If by "helping" you mean wars, like the Iraq war, I wouldn't consider that helping so much as intervening.

Also in this forum I think you should have made it clear that you hated the US government and not just the US. In the way it is stated is looks very much like you are against its people as well.

So when I said on page one of this thread:
"Anyways, there are so many stereotypes flying around, I don't know where to begin. Firstly, I'm a Canadian, and I want to make a note that I do not hate Americans... I just hate some of the actions of their government."
... I should have been more clear?
Uhhhh... *scratches head*.
Me = Don't hate Americans
There.

Healthy patriotism, I would say is when you are willing to help your country as long as your country has what is truly best for its people in mind.

So you claim you are patriotic... despite the fact that you have a disdain for the government...
Kind of a contradiction, is it not?

I won’t follow my country blindly. But when someone states they hate the people of my country. Just as I was once would fight to the death for them, I would willingly do the same now.

I hope you mean that you would fight people who damage America, and not just fight them because they say they hate America.... I hope...

The patriot act, is mostly the brain child of congress and senate. The president started it and gave them the freedom to add to it where they saw fit. And now yes, it’s hurting the American people.

And not just Americans... it also effects other nations like Canada. Americans sent a Canadian who had been living in Canada for 15 years, over to Syria where he was tortured because he was "suspected of being a terrorist or having terrorist links".

Also note that not ONE terrorist has been charged as a result of the Patriot Act(s), and that thousands have suffered because of it.

Clinton, took away our benefits, pay, and just about anything else you can think of. Bush, the first thing he did was give all military personnel a pay raise.

Wait, so earlier in your post you condemn the government for spending money on war, then you praise Bush for paying soldiers more money, who are a minority in the country, instead of spending that money on Heathcare or Education which a majority of the people can benefit from.... what? Now you have me confused again.

At 3/21/05 07:52 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote: I understand the part where you say that the government should be spending more on healthcare and education than on unfavourable wars, so there we agree.

As for the rest, I guess it depends on what you and I mean by "helping". When I think of helping, I think of red cross, natural disaster aid, peacekeeping, removal of landmines, etc etc. If by "helping" you mean wars, like the Iraq war, I wouldn't consider that helping so much as intervening.

Iraq, that is complicated for me. My father was there in 91. Honestly, any action done in Iraq should have been done then.

So when I said on page one of this thread:
"Anyways, there are so many stereotypes flying around, I don't know where to begin. Firstly, I'm a Canadian, and I want to make a note that I do not hate Americans... I just hate some of the actions of their government."
... I should have been more clear?
Uhhhh... *scratches head*.
Me = Don't hate Americans
There.

Hey genius, You’re NOT the only one that these comments are directed to.

So you claim you are patriotic... despite the fact that you have a disdain for the government...
Kind of a contradiction, is it not?

I'm allowed. You don't know what I know. Also, sometimes your government needs to be told when they are in the wrong. They just don't always listen.

I hope you mean that you would fight people who damage America, and not just fight them because they say they hate America.... I hope...

Well considering I have fought for my country. And it was against people who hate Americans and a few of them who are already dead did damage my country. Just, we aren't able to pick why we are going to fight.

And not just Americans... it also effects other nations like Canada. Americans sent a Canadian who had been living in Canada for 15 years, over to Syria where he was tortured because he was "suspected of being a terrorist or having terrorist links".

Sorry but, your own government had to have a say in that for him to be turned over. That or right now, Canada, NATO, and UN could order military action against the US. Seeing how it hasn’t happened. I'm going with the Canadian government turned him over.

Also note that not ONE terrorist has been charged as a result of the Patriot Act(s), and that thousands have suffered because of it.

Actually, there have been arrests. You just don't live in the US. So you probably, wouldn't get the news. Also the patriot act, it covers many laws now. It removes many right of the American people. There have been many people charged with violations of the patriot act. However, if you looking to find this on the local news. Don't bother, if it doesn't bring in ratings, it won't be shown.

Wait, so earlier in your post you condemn the government for spending money on war, then you praise Bush for paying soldiers more money, who are a minority in the country, instead of spending that money on Heathcare or Education which a majority of the people can benefit from.... what? Now you have me confused again.

Yes, that's because, I was a Soldier. I left the military in 2003. I wouldn't expect you to understand, by the looks of it. Your just going by what you see on television and what you read on the internet. And your days are probably spent sitting down all day. I was in the United States Army. So, yes when Bush said he would get us a pay and benefit raise. It meant a lot. Considering with what things were like under the clinton administration. Sorry, but with him it felt like we were being betrayed by our own government. I respect President Bush. But I hate the senate and congress.
No one likes war. You would have to utterly retarded to like war.

At 3/21/05 08:27 PM, -Michael- wrote:

At 3/20/05 11:59 AM, bcdemon wrote:
LOL, I'm not paranoid, and I didn't say they hate me, I just said america doesnt give a rats ass about Canada because we are not american.

omg, a Canadian!

(points and laughs)

in the flesh!

Is this the first time in your 5 years here at NG to notice a Canadian?
Safe to say perception isn't one of your strong suits.

At 3/21/05 10:50 PM, jeepbad wrote: Iraq, that is complicated for me. My father was there in 91. Honestly, any action done in Iraq should have been done then.

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.... well it's the past and it didn't happen, so no use in dwelling over what could have been the "glory days".

Hey genius, You’re NOT the only one that these comments are directed to.

Hah, moody... Sorry, but it seemed that you and I were engauged in a conversation, so I only assumed that you might have glossed over my own views, and I didn't realize that you were addressing people in general. See, this is why referencing who you're speaking to would be a big help.

I'm allowed. You don't know what I know. Also, sometimes your government needs to be told when they are in the wrong. They just don't always listen.

Maybe I do, maybe I don't, but it's just as well that I could say the same for you. Well... obviously I don't know what you know, simply because for me to know what you know I would have to be you. But I suppose if you have to be all "hush hush" about it, it leaves a sense of mystery to the game.
As for the government not listening... ain't that the truth.

Well considering I have fought for my country. And it was against people who hate Americans and a few of them who are already dead did damage my country. Just, we aren't able to pick why we are going to fight.

What were you talking about earlier... blindly following? Does it not have some connection to what you just said here?

Sorry but, your own government had to have a say in that for him to be turned over. That or right now, Canada, NATO, and UN could order military action against the US. Seeing how it hasn’t happened. I'm going with the Canadian government turned him over.

Nope, he was passing through America from a vacation and was snatched up by the authorities without the permission of the Canadian government... hence why there was a big controversy over the whole deal. Enh, maybe you just didn't hear about it.

Actually, there have been arrests. You just don't live in the US. So you probably, wouldn't get the news. Also the patriot act, it covers many laws now. It removes many right of the American people. There have been many people charged with violations of the patriot act. However, if you looking to find this on the local news. Don't bother, if it doesn't bring in ratings, it won't be shown.

Oh I don't deny that there have been arrests. There have been thousands of arrests. I'm just saying that not ONE of them were charged with terrorism. Sure, some people ended up spending up to 129 days (longest case) without being told why they were being held, and only were allowed a 15 minute phone call a month to their family... for what though? The most anyone of these captives have been charged for so far, are for visa violations.
A damn shame.

Nope, only news I watch is the BBC. I get my info through literature and my classes.

Yes, that's because, I was a Soldier. I left the military in 2003. I wouldn't expect you to understand, by the looks of it. Your just going by what you see on television and what you read on the internet. And your days are probably spent sitting down all day. I was in the United States Army. So, yes when Bush said he would get us a pay and benefit raise. It meant a lot. Considering with what things were like under the clinton administration. Sorry, but with him it felt like we were being betrayed by our own government. I respect President Bush. But I hate the senate and congress.

Oh, so you only approve of the government spending money on causes that you don't approve of, unless of course you are a beneficiary.

Hey, let's get one thing straight though before I continue... I have a respect for soldiers and what they have to endure... don't make me lose mine for you, through your attempts to degrade my own existance on this Earth, simply because I'm not a soldier. Just because I don't approve of the war, doesn't mean that I disapprove of you as a person... they're two completely different things. I would only expect that mutual respect.

Now then, as for me sitting around on my ass, getting my sources from the boob-tube or the internet, you are mistaken (aside from the BBC as I have mentioned, although I don't use the BBC as a source for my info, I just watch it to keep up with current events). No, I'm a full-time University student working a part-time job... I'm plenty busy thanks. Although I'm not jumping through physical hoops like you were with boot camp or the army, I'm jumping through intellectual ones instead. This means I get my sources from written literature, even things written by soldiers such as yourself. I don't claim to know what it's like to be in a war, but I can certainly gain a clearer understanding behind the politics of it. So believe it or not, I'm on your side; I hold the government accountable, not you.

No one likes war. You would have to utterly retarded to like war.

Something I think both of us agree 100% on, although I wouldn't say retarded, maybe ignorant or sadistic... and hence why I never joined the army, and never will (well, to the obvious exceptions, like if my homeland were being taken over by military force and my life was at risk).

As for the government not listening... ain't that the truth.

atleast we agree there.

What were you talking about earlier... blindly following? Does it not have some connection to what you just said here?

has to do with the reasons of why I left the Army.

Nope, he was passing through America from a vacation and was snatched up by the authorities without the permission of the Canadian government... hence why there was a big controversy over the whole deal. Enh, maybe you just didn't hear about it.

No, actually I didn't hear about it. Again this refers to when our governments need to know when they are wrong. In this case mine.

Oh I don't deny that there have been arrests. There have been thousands of arrests. I'm just saying that not ONE of them were charged with terrorism. Sure, some people ended up spending up to 129 days (longest case) without being told why they were being held, and only were allowed a 15 minute phone call a month to their family... for what though? The most anyone of these captives have been charged for so far, are for visa violations.
A damn shame.

I agree, it's not right what happened to them. After 9/11 I remember air lines going through huge hiring phases. Hiring anymore moron looking for a job they weren't qualified to do.

Nope, only news I watch is the BBC. I get my info through literature and my classes.

Oh, so you only approve of the government spending money on causes that you don't approve of, unless of course you are a beneficiary.

Not really no. It helps. But the only thing I benefited from was a slight pay raise. It helps when you have kids.

Hey, let's get one thing straight though before I continue... I have a respect for soldiers and what they have to endure... don't make me lose mine for you, through your attempts to degrade my own existance on this Earth, simply because I'm not a soldier. Just because I don't approve of the war, doesn't mean that I disapprove of you as a person... they're two completely different things. I would only expect that mutual respect.

Now then, as for me sitting around on my ass, getting my sources from the boob-tube or the internet, you are mistaken (aside from the BBC as I have mentioned, although I don't use the BBC as a source for my info, I just watch it to keep up with current events). No, I'm a full-time University student working a part-time job... I'm plenty busy thanks. Although I'm not jumping through physical hoops like you were with boot camp or the army, I'm jumping through intellectual ones instead. This means I get my sources from written literature, even things written by soldiers such as yourself. I don't claim to know what it's like to be in a war, but I can certainly gain a clearer understanding behind the politics of it. So believe it or not, I'm on your side; I hold the government accountable, not you.

I do apologize for my ignorance about your personal life. Yes, I do get moody.

Something I think both of us agree 100% on, although I wouldn't say retarded, maybe ignorant or sadistic... and hence why I never joined the army, and never will (well, to the obvious exceptions, like if my homeland were being taken over by military force and my life was at risk).

Exactly

There are those of us who did join and they just get tired of fighting. No one wants to be in war. There are those who are well, good at what they do when they get in the military.

Also, there are some that do believe that we are helping in Iraq, and I believed in Afghanistan (sorry but there are people who want everyone in my country dead just for being born in the US). Lets face it. Being told who and what to believe in and being punished for it is not a way to treat anyone. Also, its just wrong, plain and simple.

I'm sorry but I do believe that what ever happens to hussein, he deserves it. Do I think my government went about it the right way? No, I don't. Should the US have been there in the first place? No. I doubt many other American soldiers would disagree with me. If the US did find weapons of mass destruction. Then yes, my views on Iraq would be very different.

We hate the US because they like play us with trade and such. More wood, less money, no beef, no money. Lesser exports of fruits. Our trading is going to shit...

At 3/16/05 03:17 PM, Mcdubs wrote:

Yes, groups that are responsible for 80% of the crime and violence in the country, not to mention religions that murder thousands worldwide in the name of god are forced to live in a country that punishes them in the form of affirmative action and minority scholarships!!! Damn You USA

I think you are right, maybe you should leave this evil, facist country and live in a socialsit paradise like cuba
- mcdubs

I don't want to live in a communist country either, you guys are the commies, becasue we don't invade otehr countries and slaughter thousands of people we are socialist communists, go fuck a pig.. If your black the kkk will do shit to you, this gos for any other race, if your muslim some scumbag fbi agent comes to your door arrests you has you deported to another country for toture and lables you a terrorist just becasue you aren't white american bush supporting christian fanatic..

At 3/23/05 12:26 PM, metalhead676 wrote:

I don't want to live in a communist country either..... we are socialist communists,

??????? You say you don't want to live in a communist country yet you say "we" which groups you and other people as socialist communists........

go fuck a pig..

Nah, I'll rather eat one *starts eating bacon*

If your black the kkk will do shit to you,

And if you are a Jew in Toronto, you would be a target for discrimination (spl?) so what's your point?

if your muslim some scumbag fbi agent comes to your door arrests you has you deported to another country for toture

Uhh, that happens in Canada too, well...maybe not the FBI part, but if they have connections to terrorism, arrest their ass. Hell, we helped the US in the Arar case.

and lables you a terrorist just becasue you aren't white american bush supporting christian fanatic..

And, to leave this, you are an idiot.

^^ what aboutthat guy that was deported and totured and it didn't even happen, I think it was that arar you mentioned, he did not do a thingm he was falsely accused and payed the price because his skin was a different colour.