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Umm, no offense, I would be very suprised if any American knew the last 15 Canadian PM.

Why? Because your PM's really dont hold the kind of weight in the world as, lets say a UK PM, or a French President, or a Russian President. Or, an American President especially.

It really has nothing to do with the fact that we dont care what you do, its the fact Canada really isnt a major player in world affairs like a China or UK or America or France.

No offense meant.

Ok, you know why French Canadians don't tip you well in south florida?

Because you speak English, AND you're Americans.

That means that they hate you twice.

At 3/7/05 09:29 PM, Elfer wrote: Ok, you know why French Canadians don't tip you well in south florida?

Because you speak English, AND you're Americans.

That means that they hate you twice.

Lol

Also, they are Flordians. And I can say this with full confidence (use to live on Del Rey Boca Raton border), most Flordians are complete self absorbed assholes. They are the Los Angeles of the East. NY cant even get CLOSE to how self absorbed most Flordians are.

Plus there are lots of old people. And they SUCK at driving, which angers many people.

ROFL, this topic is great.

Maus, I do apologize, I never knew servers would only make $2 an hour, thats umm, sad. When I was a server I was making $6.50 hour + tips (before the gov stated taxing tips too). You should push for some sort of Labour Board of America or something to look out for the workers rights. And how the hell your gov can tax you on $2 an hour is unbelievable. Personally I think that is unfair to the server (to get paid sweat shop dollars) and the patron (to be expected to pay for his meal AND suplement the servers income). Damn, I thought America looked out for its workers. Our Labour Board of Canada would never allow that. Hell minimum wage in BC is like $8 an hour or something.

15 POTUS Attempt:

Bush (The dumb one)
Bush (Pappa Bush)
Clinton
Reagan
Carter
Eisenhower
Nixon
Rosevelt
Jefferson
Washington
Lincoln
Johnson (Lynden B, I think he was potus, no?)

Sorry, thats it, lol. Canadian PMs started popping into my head.

And Elfer, I totally agree with you, yanks get a double whammy from the french Canucks.
Besides, could you imagine how offended a K-Becker would feel about seeing "Freedom Fries" on a menu lol.

No apology needed, BC. :)

I figured you snowmonkeys would do something outrageous like pay people a living wage, so I thought I'd double check. :D

At 3/7/05 10:20 PM, Maus wrote: I figured you snowmonkeys would do something outrageous like pay people a living wage, so I thought I'd double check. :D

"Excuse me miss... I resent that term. Miss?? MISS?!?! I would appreciate it if you didn't walk away from me like that! Excuse me but if you don't listen to me I'm afraid I might have to write you a mean spirited letter!!!.... no, I couldn't do that, that would be too harsh... God bless you miss!"

I always did say the pen was mightier than the sword... until I was stabbed one time.

Maus, I still can't understand how you can pay someone $2 an hour. At approx, $4100 a year, isn't that a little below your poverty line? Actually I just checked, in 2003 the poverty line was $8980 for one person. And considering about 9% of those employed in the US are in the restaurant business, wow, thats alot of folks living in poverty.

SUBCHAPTER S11 - SPECIAL WAGE RATE SCHEDULES
"A minimum cash amount of $2.13 per hour should be paid to tipped employees. If tips actually received are not sufficient, when added to $2.13, to total the minimum wage of $4.75 (as of October 1, 1996) or $5.15 (as of September 1, 1997), the employer must also pay the additional difference to the tipped employee.

Thats sad, lol.

This thread inspired me.

The thing is, the government also just automatically taxes up to 10% of your total sales. Because it was gained in tips. You get taxed even MORE when they pay with a CC. Fucked up, no?

What's even scarier is how much restaurants would charge for their food if they had to pay servers the real minimum wage.

The idea is though, that if you work hard, you can make 20% of your sales in tips. But people don't understand that servers LIVE off those tips, and don't tip accordingly. I do know some people that have made a decent living serving tables, but I also notice that the burnout rate is high. Drug use is rampant in the restaurant business, drama is a staple, and it's a hard lifestyle. As a temporary pick me up job, serving is great. But i would never recommend it as a career.

Still. Tip at least 10%. Always. That is board. Consider it a rent payment on the seat you're sitting in, because that's exactly what it is.

Also, they are Flordians. And I can say this with full confidence (use to live on Del Rey Boca Raton border), most Flordians are complete self absorbed assholes. They are the Los Angeles of the East. NY cant even get CLOSE to how self absorbed most Flordians are.

Plus there are lots of old people. And they SUCK at driving, which angers many people.

Dude, That's boca raton, the richest part of the east coast famous for "boca babes" who have had to have had at least 10 plastic surguries by the age of 15 to qualify to marry a 60 yr old rich banker. The population is homogenous (ver 90% white) and the tri rail doesn't even go that far north. What's more its not on the limestone ridge.

Try going down to Ft. Lauderdale/Miami, or Tampa/St. Pete, Or Tallahassee, or Orlando, or St. Augustine or any of the real parts of FLorida.

Here are some references to bad canadian tipping found in places other than south florida. Places other than the U.S. even, cuba, the dominican republic, haiti, and Nevada, and mexico.

Is everyone in the world bad servers except canadians?

http://www.nevadatravel.net/travelgram/03-07.html
http://www.chapalareview.com/artoutdining.html
http://forums.alternet.org/guest/motet?show+-ujU5hc+-lad+Issues+361+-1

I'm just saying because I think poor tips from cadadians is, overall, true. Thats why this impression was independently formed. (although I did see a source that ranked canadians as the #2 tippers in the world, following the us but neglected to post the url.)

At 3/8/05 11:34 AM, SpiceLord wrote: Alot

LOL, shit man if our servers only got $2.13 an hour we would obviously tip them better, but here in Canada servers get paid to show up and serve food and shit. And they get tipped for quality of service. And they also work 8 hour shifts, most of your servers are 25 hour a week employees. Thats the main difference, here in Canada, being a waiter/waitress
is a job, in the US, well, slave labour, sweat shop comes to mind, lol.

If my waiter/waitress goes above thier normal job duties (taking order, bring food, bring bill) (going above means a simple smile) then he/she can count on a tip. If your a grump, and sort of drop/slide teh plates in front of me, and I have to wipe my knife on my jeans to clean it, your not getting shit.

At 3/8/05 10:33 AM, Maus wrote: Still. Tip at least 10%. Always. That is board. Consider it a rent payment on the seat you're sitting in, because that's exactly what it is.

You'd have to be a REALLY bad server to earn less than 10%, on a tip.
Like, for me to leave less than 10%...they'd have to almost ignore me, as a customer.
And for the servers that ARE bad...why should I give them 10%, so that their poor work skills are encouraged?

Once or twice of getting no tip whatsoever, and the worse server in the world will straighten up and fly right? Why would they straighten up? For the exact reason you mentioned: They live off those tips. They'll realize that their behavior is directly linked to their pay.

Giving a mandatory 10% only makes servers think it's ok to do a piss-poor job.

Funny Americans talk about how badly we tip, yet I've heard waitresses up here talk about how rude American customers are and how badly they tip compared to Canadians.

Maybe we tip better to those in our own countries? Who knows. Either that or we just make stereotypes for the sake of making stereotypes. Like they may not notice the American customers who don't tip, while making sure to take note anytime a Canadian doesn't tip.

Anyway this is an inaccurate thread because Canadians don't hate Americans and a recent poll showed that 80% of Canadians consider the U.S. our best friend. We may mock Americans from time to time or hate certain policies, but we still consider them good friends. Look at it this way, people like Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson just gives Canadians even more cannon fodder for jokes.

BTW when certain Americans laughably go on ignorant tirades about our small military and how cold it is up here, we can just continue to gloat over the fact that we're 32 million people who own 7% of the Earth's surface, 14% of the world's fresh water and a whole whack of oil and gas that the Americans absolutely need. Not to mention being voted 9 times in a row by the UN as best place to live. I haven't even scratched the surface of all that we have to be proud of. Damn for a pathetic shithole frozen wasteland, we sure do live pretty damn good up here :D

If a server is that bad, management should be notified, really. The meal will be comped, and no tip expected. Easy as that.

At 3/8/05 10:24 AM, bcdemon wrote: SUBCHAPTER S11 - SPECIAL WAGE RATE SCHEDULES
"A minimum cash amount of $2.13 per hour should be paid to tipped employees. If tips actually received are not sufficient, when added to $2.13, to total the minimum wage of $4.75 (as of October 1, 1996) or $5.15 (as of September 1, 1997), the employer must also pay the additional difference to the tipped employee.

Thats sad, lol.

Wow, see this is something that not all Canadians know about the service industry in America. Like BC said, our minimum wage is much higher (above 7 dollars now I believe? Not entirely sure, it keeps changing) and so we would only think that Americans would have similar pay given that America seems to be all about the people and freedom, etc etc. I had -no- idea that Service people were being paid so low across the border. Really... I think that's quite shameful to be honest. Sure, you don't require a high level of education to be one, but really, it's a tough job (from what I hear form friends) and requires a good attitude a lot of the time. Hmmm, could it be so low because expenses are lower in the U.S.? (bah, I don't know enough about foreign economics!!!)

7 dollars canadian, I think thats about equivalent.

I think its 5.25 US nationwide, and fla just passed a ill to make it 6.50

But our servers dont make minimum wage, tipping isnt cream on the cake, its the staple.

At 3/8/05 04:21 PM, Maus wrote: If a server is that bad, management should be notified, really. The meal will be comped, and no tip expected. Easy as that.

The servers job is the servers job, not my job. If we were talking about, say, my meal being wrong...THEN I'd complain to managment. I don't want the server to lose his/her job, I only want them to learn from their mistakes.

Getting no tip teaches that.

At 3/8/05 04:51 PM, Damien_FLAGG wrote: The servers job is the servers job, not my job. If we were talking about, say, my meal being wrong...THEN I'd complain to managment. I don't want the server to lose his/her job, I only want them to learn from their mistakes.

Getting no tip teaches that.

A server will not lose their job over a single complaint. It is also the managers job to make sure the servers are trained. If they don't appear to be, tell the manager. Leaving no tip teaches them nothing, they'll just bitch about 'that ass that doesn't tip.'

with a million possible mistakes that could have been made, none of them being obvious (such as spilling water which is an unavoidable accident), no tip does nothing to teach.

Low tip accomplisheds the same goal as low tip even better.

scenario I
BW:"That guy left no tip, what an a-hole"
GW:"yep"
Scenario II
BW: "Why do you always get tipped so much more than me."
GW:"Becuase you should refill their coffee more often and without being asked."
BW:"hmmm/ / /"

Scenario III
BW:"why do you get tipped more than me?"
GW:"I have bigger boobs"
BW "bitch"

ok, scenario 3 was a joke.

At 3/8/05 11:34 AM, SpiceLord wrote:

Dude, That's boca raton, the richest part of the east coast famous for "boca babes" who have had to have had at least 10 plastic surguries by the age of 15 to qualify to marry a 60 yr old rich banker. The population is homogenous (ver 90% white) and the tri rail doesn't even go that far north. What's more its not on the limestone ridge.

Pfft. I dont think you have ever been to Del Ray. Shit, most of my High School was black. And like I said, I didnt live in Boca. But most of the girls I hanged out with were from there. DAMN, Boca breeds some fine ass chicks.

Try going down to Ft. Lauderdale/Miami, or Tampa/St. Pete, Or Tallahassee, or Orlando, or St. Augustine or any of the real parts of FLorida.

Lol I have been to South Beach and Ft. Lauderdale. They are just like Boca, without the cash to roll in Versace and Prada. At least the parts that arent shady as fuck. All of South Florida is self absorbed, Los Angeles of the East. If you dont realize this I am betting you live north of Okacheobe (however the hell you spell it)

My God, she should be taken out back and shot. We allow them to be on the same continent as us. I enjoyed the response, its called geography. We don't need the US military to defend us, because there is no one for us to defend ourselves against. Last time someone attacked us it was the US. This whole missle defense thign is rediculas. We are a soverign nation and we can do whatever the hell we want. We can not be forced to sign on to this program, just like the US cant be forced into Kyoto or anti-personal land mine treaties. We screw each other over all the time, we rely on each other allt he time. We are the number one source of outside power for you, you are our number 1 trading partner. You closed up to our beef and lumber, we didnt sign on your missle defense or Iraq. You killed four of our troops in Afganistan, we critized you for goign to war so hastily.

JusticeOfSarcasm makes a good point. One of the key reasons Canada isn't taking part in the US's missile shield is that the US is not supporting Canada's interests. For years our lumber industry, and more recently our cattle industry, have taken the brunt of US trade sanctions. While closing the US border to Canadian beef was in response to a case of BSE in Canada, and therefore a health concern, tariffs on Canadian lumber are only to protect the comparatively weak US lumber industry. Canada's lumber industry harvests and processes for much less than its American counterpart is able to, and was therefore able to market to the US and still make a profit, while keeping costs for US consumers below production costs for the US lumber industry. IE: the US lumber industry couldn't compete with Canada's. So in response, the US imposed anti dumping fees and other tariffs on the Canadian lumber industry in order to create a level playing field for its own industry, and make an exhorbitant amount of money at the same time. These tariffs have devastated the Canadian lumber industry for years (sorry for repeating the same names over and OVER), and Canadians have never been happy with it. Right now, one of the US's main interests is security, and one of Canada's is its natural resource based industries. The US has not supported our interests, so it is fair to expect Canadians to not support the US's interests (in this case the missile shield).
As for the attitude of Canadian's towards Americans (and vice-versa), I think one of the greatest causes of conflict is a lack of familiarity between the two sides. Many Canadians and Americans base their opinions of the other mainly on stereotypes, without finding out the facts. If you take a biased person's position as fact, then your opinion will also be biased, and that is what happens to a large extent. An example incorrect assumption taken by Americans is that Canada is a frozen land of ice and snow, when in actuality, the climate in many parts of Canada is warmer than that found in many parts of the continental US. Yes Canada has some really cold places, but no one lives there. A huge majority of Canada's population lives within 150 km (a bit less than 100 miles) of the Canada-US border, and the climate in most of those places is very similar to that found in the nearby US. I'm from the southern interior of BC (Kelowna actually) where it's not uncommon to get up to 40 degrees celsius in the summer (104 F), and rarely gets below -5 C (23 F) in the winter. I'm wondering who's doing all this dog sledding, seeing as pretty much everybody else is always at the beach.
To be fair, many Canadians incorrectly assume all Americans are arrogant ill-informed gun toting jack asses, when in actuality Canadian and American personalities are usually very much alike. If it weren't for people on TV like those in that video, I'm sure our view of you would be a lot better.
And yes, Canada has a military, but it's not big enough to get a lot of international interest. Canada doesn't have the population or need to have such a military, plus it often has a much greater domestic presence than a foreign one. I know it wasn't just a polar bear fighting the massive forest fire that threatened my home town two summers ago (it burned down 300+ homes, caused the evacuation of more than 30,000, and I can't recall off my head how big it was, but to suffice it so say pretty damn massive (as well as spectacualr)).
Anyways, I hope I haven't gone on too long and have managed to inform a few of you (without amkign too many errors on the way). Sometimes I think it's unneccesary (and often harmful) to let personal bias drive us into conflict, instead of getting the facts straight and trying to understand. If people want to be taken seriously and as having an intelectual opinion, they need to be thsoe things. Good arguments are those understood and agreed upon by the other side, not the ones you believe in the most, especially when you don't get your facts straight or take the time to see the whole picture.

At 3/9/05 02:20 AM, frasmc wrote: JusticeOfSarcasm makes a good point. One of the key reasons Canada isn't taking part in the US's missile shield is that the US is not supporting Canada's interests.

...

Although you are right about how America has cut off our beef and lumber, am I not so certain that this was one of the reasons why we didn't sign onto the missile shield. Personally, I thought it was mostly a point on how ineffective it's tests were, and how we refused to place money into a program which we could be spending on more effective uses. That's just my view on it though.

OMG that was funny... didn't know people that dump existed..

At 3/7/05 02:01 PM, fR0ZEN wrote: But seriously, I have no problem with the US. I think that we both need each other to survive. Still, a lot of my friends hate the US people for voting for Bush. But, if they voted for Bush, that means that they trust him, and that's their choice.

Just remember that 48% of Americans did NOT vote for Bush. In other words, 48% of us aren't complete morons.

With regards to softwood lumber, NAFTA has ruled everytime that the US's actions are ILLEGAL as well the WTO has also ruled in Canada's favour. The US had a case of BSE and they pleaded to the world it was safe to eat US beef, yet the border remained closed. And the USDA planned to open the border untill a court order was place delaying it, then the Senate decided to over rule the USDA and keep the border closed. The missle defense shield is unneccisary. It was originally intended for defense againt the USSR, and incase you have not been paying attention, the USSR collapsed over 15 years ago. The shield is ineffective and is believed to bring the US one step closer to Star Wars (missle defense program based in space).

Why woudl we sign on to something that is a.)expensive b.)ineffective c.)unneccisary d.)for a country that has been uncooperative with us the past few years.

Hell Bush did not even come to Canada his first term I believe, and met with Mexico before he did Canada and said Mexico was their most important neighbour.

I have a simple solution, we no longer hate people based on their religion, but now we get to hate people because of where they live. I think the big turn came when good old Henry kicked Catholics out of England, then it went from my god can beat up your god to my army can beat up your army.

One more thing in response to the argument that no one hates Canadians except the US, part of me agrees, that everyone is cool with Canada (he’s like our cool drawing teacher that gives you an “A” for showing up). But another part of me says, “Who here hates Luxemburg, how about Laos, Lithuania, anyone hate Lithuania? No one, hmmm… wonder why?” (I think my point should be clear).

I don’t hate Canada, France, Germany, Iran, or anywhere to be exact. Because truly hating someone is like drinking poison and then waiting for them to die.

I fail to see how you can formulat an opinion of an entire country by the experiences of only a few individuals. With that said, I like Canada better then the US. I like the city I live in... But that's about it. There's far too much pathetic propaganda and ignorance floating around in the US. How smart do you expect citizens to be, if by gradeschool they conform to societal pressure, and the media's "hip" new fads. I've heard a fourth grader cuss. Little girls who are 11 or something stuffing their bras, and wear heavymake up... smoke... drink excessively... *Shudders* Were doomed.

The school I work in, one of the girls in my program is 11 and has a cell phone. Its not like she is just saying it, cause I have seen her on it and told her she can't use it in the program.

At 3/7/05 02:01 PM, fR0ZEN wrote: So, what's wrong with Fox News and CNN for actually letting this jackasses speak?

That lady is a crackhead...

Im american And I H8T bush!