Zero Tolerance in Schools

[Proteas]

-------------------------
13-year-old suspended 10 days after confrontation with teacher
WKMG Local 6

A 13-year-old student in Orange County, Fla., was suspended for 10 days and could be banned from school over an alleged assault with a rubber band, according to a WKMG Local 6 News report.

Robert Gomez, a seventh-grader at Liberty Middle School, said he picked up a rubber band at school and slipped it on his wrist.

Gomez said when his science teacher demanded the rubber band, the student said he tossed it on her desk.

After the incident, Gomez received a 10-day suspension for threatening his teacher with what administrators say was a weapon, Local 6 News reported.

"They said if he would have aimed it a little more and he would have gotten it closer to her face he would have hit her in the eye," mother Jenette Rojas said.

Rojas said she was shocked to learn that her son was being punished for a Level 4 offense -- the highest Level at the school. Other violations that also receive level 4 punishment include arson, assault and battery, bomb threats and explosives, according to the Code of Student Conduct.

The district said a Level 4 offense includes the use of any object or instrument used to make a threat or inflict harm, including a rubber band.

Rojas plans to fight the ruling but her son still faces expulsion.

"It's ridiculous, it's a rubber band," Rojas said.

The school's principal could not comment because the case is still under investigation.

A district spokesman said there is still a series of meetings the district will have before Gomez is officially expelled.

Source: Flordia Today
-------------------------

Is it just me, or are we going just a wee bit far with these non-violence rules in Public Schools? I mean, it was a rubber band for crying out loud!

Polic Cheif; Get the SWAT Team to Liberty Middle School ASAP!
Random Grunt: Why Cheif? What's going on?
Police Cheif: There's been a report of someone tossing rubber bands at teachers!
Random Grunt: Forget SWAT! I'M CALLING THE NATIONAL GUARD!!

[Ted-Easton]

I can understand it. Rubber bands have been, for far too long, an issue in the States. We've banned them here in Canada, to a degree, and we're trying the Rubber Band registry for certain other strechy things. I don't see why every person in the U.S. needs one.

[Mr-Fluffykins]

a kid might be suspended at my school for using a shock pen on a teacher,

It doesn't cause bodily harm, its more of a scare,

The teacher happens to be a cunt

[BeFell]

I shot my sister in the eye with a rubber band once. It made her cry but that was about it. Did you know that a mechanical pencil can turn a staple into a lethal projectile?

[newbman]

okay, this isn't about schools but it's still on topic:

Jacob's Field(Cleveland INdians) doesn't allows straws or cup lids, but forks and knifes and glass beer bottles are still being used. Is it just me or is something wrong.

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 2/23/05 08:13 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: I can understand it. Rubber bands have been, for far too long, an issue in the States. We've banned them here in Canada, to a degree, and we're trying the Rubber Band registry for certain other strechy things. I don't see why every person in the U.S. needs one.

I have to agree. If you were in the militia, that would be one thing. But the second amendment doesn't necessarily allow you to own one.

My home county, Cobb, suspended a middle schooler for having a keychain. The chain was about 4" in length.

I read about cases like this in "That's Outrageous!" in Reader's Digest a lot.

Instead of looking at the situation at a case by case basis, as it should be, our shoddily run school systems apply a rule to all situations and a punishment regardless of need, or merit, or any specifics of the situation. So the kids that bring guns and knives and bomb threats to school get the same punishment as those whose mother accidentally left a butter knife in their lunch box.

The quote "They said if he would have aimed it a little more and he would have gotten it closer to her face he would have hit her in the eye" proves just how stupid the administration is at this place. If he had picked up his chair and aimed it at her face, it would have hit her in the eye. If this, if that-- this world would be horrible to live in if we were all punished for what we were capable of doing.

[RedSkunk]

I could probably understand a suspension. No news story can project the attitude that the little brat probably had. Probably needs a little sense smacked into him. The 1yr ban is obviously overkill. There's not a whole lot to discuss here, Proteas.

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 2/23/05 08:37 PM, newbman wrote: okay, this isn't about schools but it's still on topic:

Jacob's Field(Cleveland INdians) doesn't allows straws or cup lids, but forks and knifes and glass beer bottles are still being used. Is it just me or is something wrong.

How is that relevant? It seems to me they're just trying to keep wind-blown debris down. Lightweight straws and cup lids are more susceptible to being carried off by the wind than the heavier utensils, and thus more likely to be blown on to the playing field.

[newbman]

eh I always thought it was a safty precaution, but what do I know(please don't answer)

[cravat-man]

I think it's realy ridiculous. Unless their was any violent intent to the boy's throwing of the rubber-band, their shouldnt even be an infraction. i mean c'mon... he didnt even shoot it. that teacher has a stick up her ass. jesus.

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 2/23/05 08:47 PM, newbman wrote: eh I always thought it was a safty precaution,

Well, some stadiums do ban glass bottles, coolers, and the like for safety. However, more likely than not, that's the reason for the ban on lids at Jacobs. After all, it's easier to toss out a fan that interrupts a ball game with a thrown bottle than it is to toss out all the people who couldn't catch their lids and straws when the wind blew them away.

but what do I know(please don't answer)

Lots. For all I know, I could be wrong--I'm just hypothesizing.

[RedSkunk]

At 2/23/05 08:50 PM, cravat-man wrote: i mean c'mon... he didnt even shoot it.

How do you know? Because he said he didn't? You know how many "innocent" people there are in prison?

[SkyCube]

American schools are just soooooo funny!

I actually have a liitle book full of such tales! (not all from america, but most) Here's my one of my favorite ones! (This happened last year)

When a young american schoolboy started making "violent" sketches, the paranoid alarm system was set clanging at full volume. In the rural backwater of Prosser, Washington state, a 15-year-old boy drew pictures for an art assignment that called for an end to the Iraq war, urged people to vote for the Green Party and showed acts of "violence" commited by Arabs on president George W. Bush.

So what happened? First the school princibal did the patriotic thing and called the police. The Police, clearly with the interests of national security at heart, faxed the sketches to the secret service. Members of the secret service, probably dressed in black, then flew to Prosser to interegate the boy.

School princible Kevin Lusk said he believed that the student - who has no history of anti-social behaviour - could pose a threat to Mr Bush. After the interviews by the men in black, the student was not suspended, but he was diciplined.

God bless America.

[Professor-Burgees]

At 2/23/05 09:58 PM, SkyCube wrote: When a young american schoolboy started making "violent" sketches, the paranoid alarm system was set clanging at full volume. In the rural backwater of Prosser, Washington state, a 15-year-old boy drew pictures for an art assignment that called for an end to the Iraq war, urged people to vote for the Green Party and showed acts of "violence" commited by Arabs on president George W. Bush.

That sounds more like Communist China than America.
Fucked up or what...

As for the rubber band business, I think the school is just talking crap. Even if he did shoot the teacher with a rubber band, the most that deserves is a disciplining from Head of Year/Headteacher (depending on the size of the school)

[fli]

At 2/23/05 08:16 PM, Mr_Fluffykins wrote: The teacher happens to be a cunt

What if the brat deserved it?
It could be that that was the final straw-- how do we know this kid was a stupid ass obnoxious prick?

I mean, there's a limit a person can take crap, and sometimes the littliest things can be the final straw.

[RBS13]

At 2/23/05 08:39 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: My home county, Cobb, suspended a middle schooler for having a keychain. The chain was about 4" in length.

if they suspended kids for having chains 4'' in length, then more than half my school would be out for a while. they have chains on their wallets and on their clothes all the time. meh...

the rubber band thing is also banned at our school. no student is to be in possesion of a rubber band and/or paper clip. i got in deep shit in first grade when i was playing with a paper clip. i bent it out of shape and was spinning it. i went to the principal's office. iunno, it seems kinda dumb to get all pissed at a rubber band, but there was a big mess in 8th grade, where kids would take paper, roll it up into things called 'wasps' and if they put electrical tape around it it was something else. they would shot them at eachother in all their classes. they hurt quite abit. that's why tehy were band. :). meh.

[specimen56]

At 2/24/05 02:47 PM, fli wrote: What if the brat deserved it?
It could be that that was the final straw-- how do we know this kid was a stupid ass obnoxious prick?

But shouldn't our teachers be expected to tolerate it? I know its sound stupid, but when your working either in teaching, police, fire, medical services, you are expected to be more than human, and its kind of expected that you just brush it off...

[BrickMurus]

That is messed up. Next thing, paper airplanes, menace of the classroom.

Rubberband's are nothing, during the 10th grade I and a few of my fellow classmates, had a marker/colored pencil fight. Basically what this entailed was, you pick up a marker or something, and throw it as hard as possible at the other person. There was also that time when a police officer pulled a gun on a student because he had a knife. There was also the time when a whole bunch of rednecks and black people almost had a full out brawl and the school was basically on lock down.

[fli]

At 2/24/05 03:15 PM, Quare wrote: But shouldn't our teachers be expected to tolerate it? I know its sound stupid, but when your working either in teaching, police, fire, medical services, you are expected to be more than human, and its kind of expected that you just brush it off...

Nope.
I dare say that if I was a teacher and if a student just can't behave after several months, I would probably get crazy for a stupid little thing too.

I worked as a bank teller, I know how to handle crap day in and day out. I'm the nicest teller you want to talk with, but one day this guy just began yelling the worsest things in the world. After he called me a wetback, my co-workers chinks, and then said to me "Aye speako in English-o, you dumbass-o, andale, andale!"

Now I've always had problems with this guy, one time he kept following me as I walked home. And that was my final straw, I got my boss to close down the account and now the son-of-the-bitch can be obnoxious elsewhere.

Moral of the story:
People can take so much before it comes back up.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 2/24/05 03:15 PM, Quare wrote:

At 2/24/05 02:47 PM, fli wrote: What if the brat deserved it?
It could be that that was the final straw-- how do we know this kid was a stupid ass obnoxious prick?

But shouldn't our teachers be expected to tolerate it?

No. The child, assuming he had been an obnoxious prick all year (acting up everyday, intentionally pissing off the teacher, etc), is displaying a kind of ignorance. Instead of living up to his responsibility as a student, he goes out of his way to cause disturbances. The teacher should NOT have to tolerate that. A teacher has a hard enough time, maintaining twenty well-behaved students.
Asking a teacher to tolerate bad behavior is like asking a female office-worker to tolerate sexism.

[specimen56]

At 2/24/05 03:48 PM, fli wrote: Nope.
I dare say that if I was a teacher and if a student just can't behave after several months, I would probably get crazy for a stupid little thing too.
Moral of the story:
People can take so much before it comes back up.

But you weren't in a possition of responcibility. I mean when a kids see's that a teacher taking everything that a kids throws at them, they learn the same kind of thing. They learn to respect tolerence (of a sort). Just like we should expect police not to be racists and uphold the law.
Then again, I'm being a little too idealistic, aren't I?

At 2/24/05 04:37 PM, Damien_FLAGG wrote: No. The child, assuming he had been an obnoxious prick all year (acting up everyday, intentionally pissing off the teacher, etc), is displaying a kind of ignorance.

I see where your coming with this, if you ignore the child whose acting up, they'll learn its ok... Good point.

[Maus]

Bring back corporal punishment. The threat of being whacked with a drilled paddle is a mighty fine deterrent against bad behavior. No marks, either.

[specimen56]

At 2/25/05 09:17 AM, -Michael- wrote: In school, students are expected to be tought things that will benefit them in the long run. That is a plus for obnoxious kids, and teachers shouldn't have to tolerate obnoxious kids. They should be sent down to the principals office immediatly.

But for some of those kids they're just seeking attention. And sending them to the principle is giving them what they want.
Sometimes you need to give them attention that will change their ways, possitive reinforcment for good things rather than negative reinforcement for bad...

[Maus]

Trust me, getting whacked with a paddle is not the kind of attention any kid wants.

[BAWLS]

At 2/25/05 11:00 AM, Maus wrote: Bring back corporal punishment. The threat of being whacked with a drilled paddle is a mighty fine deterrent against bad behavior. No marks, either.

Is your goal to make then better citizens, or just to make them shut up?

[Elfer]

At 2/25/05 04:46 PM, NotYouZ wrote: Is your goal to make then better citizens, or just to make them shut up?

Look, there's a time for rational discussion and having a conversation with a child about how their behaviour is affecting others and only making things difficult for them, and explaining to them why you need them to try hard to adjust their behaviour for the benefit of the community.

But sometimes, you just need to smack the fucking kid.

[36noir]

At 2/25/05 05:15 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 2/25/05 04:46 PM, NotYouZ wrote: Is your goal to make then better citizens, or just to make them shut up?

Look, there's a time for rational discussion and having a conversation with a child about how their behaviour is affecting others and only making things difficult for them, and explaining to them why you need them to try hard to adjust their behaviour for the benefit of the community.

But sometimes, you just need to smack the fucking kid.

Exactly. We have so many ignorant as fuck kids running around being attention whores (or seeking attention, whatever that Mickey Mouse bullshit is) or trying to be cool and it turns into the same never-ending disruptive, rude, and annoying incident every day. Someone just needs to clap their head against a brick wall.

[BAWLS]

At 2/25/05 05:49 PM, 36noir wrote: Someone just needs to clap their head against a brick wall.

Someone needs to sit down and talk with them. If your kids don't give a fuck what you say, that's your fault for not establishing a relationship with them.

[Maus]

Somebody has to teach them respect and discipline before they reach the real world, and real consequences. If parents won't do it, give the responsibility back to teachers, since they seem to raise kids more than parents do these days.

[BAWLS]

At 2/25/05 06:48 PM, Maus wrote: Somebody has to teach them respect and discipline before they reach the real world, and real consequences.

Hitting kids makes them fear you, not respect you. It teaches them violence as the solution.

What's wrong with a simple detention?