Pill Popping Nation

[night-watch-man18]

I was wondering if anyone has read a book known as "The Crystallids"... I read it back in highschool, and it had a kind of George Orwell feel to it, much like "1984". Anyways, in this book, the government forced people to take a pill known as "Soma". What soma did, was give people this happy numb feeling, so that they would behave and act in line. The side effects were that you lost a piece of your identity, but it gave the government social control which some would say is "an ideal world" given that violence was nearly wiped out, suicide was on the low, and people seemed genuinely happy (remember, they're on drugs).

For those of you who are unaware, George W. has a bill that he wishes to be passed as a law (or perhaps it has already been done), forcing children in schools to take their Ritalin if they have ADD or ADHD. If they don't, then they can't go to school. The sad thing is, is that children suffering from ADD or its hyperactive cousin, have been proven to be able to control their condition without the need of medication (I'm not 100% sure if it works for all cases or for ADHD, but there has been research and applied methods that show how pills are not the only option).

So my question: Why has it become the way of our culture to take a pill to solve a problem? I have opinions on this matter, but I want to hear yours first.

[Ted-Easton]

It's "The Chrysalids", and I don't believe they had to take any pills. Are you misquoting another book, perhaps?
Or was "Soma" in 1984 itself? I haven't read it in a number of years, someone help us out here.

[SkyCube]

At 2/22/05 03:09 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote:

<stuff/>

Ok. First, I would love to see a source on that bill, I'm not accusing you of anything, but it just sounds to me like you may have twisted it or only told half the truth (e.g. the bill only forces kids to take the drugs if the school deems necessary).

However, assuming what you said about the bill is true, I think that's rediculous! Ritalin isn't necassarily the best drug for every ADHD sufferer anyway. Me for example! (I take dexadrine & dixarit)

I would also be very concerned if the bill doesn't consider that not all cases of ADHD are the same. Some kids only have it very mildly (hence, no need for drugs), while some may get almost uncontrollable. Besides, whats the point? I'm assuming that the government would have to pay for the drugs, and if a kid can't be controlled or is diruptive due to them having ADHD at school, and the parents won't do anything about it, they should be kicked out. Problem solved!

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/22/05 03:16 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: It's "The Chrysalids", and I don't believe they had to take any pills. Are you misquoting another book, perhaps?
Or was "Soma" in 1984 itself? I haven't read it in a number of years, someone help us out here.

Ah, shows you how long it has been since I read these books... it's neight 1984 or the Chrysalids... it's "BRAVE NEW WORLD"... sorry for mixing/mispelling the titles, I read all three books in one grade, so I mixed them up...

Ok, so it's BRAVE NEW WORLD*** that's the book I was referring to with Soma.

[SkyCube]

At 2/22/05 03:16 PM, Ted_Easton wrote:

Or was "Soma" in 1984 itself? I haven't read it in a number of years, someone help us out here.

No, in 1984 the government wouldn't want the people all calm, or else "Two minutes hate" would not have worked! ;-)

[ReiperX]

I am with Ted on this one, I would like to see the source on this proposed bill because it does smell kind of funky like something got distorted, or just a rumur.

Forcing a child to take a drug without it being a case by case scenario, and especially without a doctor's consent on the issue would definately be a bad thing. I'm not calling you a liar or anything, I just have a feeling you misread or misheard something because I think this would have been bigger on the news if it were true.

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/22/05 03:25 PM, SkyCube wrote:

At 2/22/05 03:09 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote:

<stuff/>

Ok. First, I would love to see a source on that bill, I'm not accusing you of anything, but it just sounds to me like you may have twisted it or only told half the truth (e.g. the bill only forces kids to take the drugs if the school deems necessary).

http://www.ritalindeath.com/bush_plans.htm

This site has a link to the actual bill found on the White House page. What the president plans to do, is screen all students with psychological tests for mental disorders such as ADD, depression, etc etc. From these tests, the government will supply a theorapy plan to children who are found to 'suffer' from these problems and provide pharmaceutical treatment to the problems. I used Ritalin as an example, but you're right, there are alternatives chemically to just Ritalin... and as you can see, they also plan on pharmaceutical treatement for depression and so on.

I presented this bill as an example of taking pills to solve a problem. My focus isn't on the presidents agenda, rather, that our society believes that pills will provide a cure for some of lifes problems, when that may not be the case. If people want, you can focus on the presidents plan, but really, I just want to know more about the question that I asked at the bottom of the post.

[RedSkunk]

At 2/22/05 03:09 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote: So my question: Why has it become the way of our culture to take a pill to solve a problem?

It's easy.

Children not acting right? Pill em. Feeling blue? Down a pill. Can't get your dick up for your average, moderately-attractive, middle-class suburban wife?

There's a pill for that.

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/22/05 04:06 PM, red_skunk wrote:

At 2/22/05 03:09 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote: So my question: Why has it become the way of our culture to take a pill to solve a problem?

It's easy.

Children not acting right? Pill em. Feeling blue? Down a pill. Can't get your dick up for your average, moderately-attractive, middle-class suburban wife?

There's a pill for that.

Sadly, there are MANY pills for that lol

Also, I would say that people are just lazy. Why go through the troubles of figuring out what's wrong with you and what you're doing to further those problems. Who cares what the side-effects are, as long as this one problem goes away immediately. (Hmm, can you tell that I have a beef with the pharmaceutical company?)

[Maus]

At 2/22/05 04:43 PM, -Michael- wrote: I refuse to believe information on an Anti-Ritalin page. Find a more non-biased source.

The actual source is this link, found on that page:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html

The ritalindeath site has interpreted it one way, some may interpret it others.

[N0mbre]

Aldous Huxley is the man!!!!!!!!
everyone should read brave new world. Its a good read above all else.

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/22/05 04:40 PM, -Michael- wrote: I believe "Soma" was in the movie, "Brave New World" I am 100% definate about this.

yeah, I realized the mistake I made and googled the bitch and reposted (4th post)... it was Brave New World

Whoa, there's a movie? Where the hell have I been??? Oh I see.. it didn't seem to get that great of reviews... damn mainstream keeping me back!

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/22/05 04:49 PM, Maus wrote:

The ritalindeath site has interpreted it one way, some may interpret it others.

Aye, that's why I said that there was a link on that page to the actual bill... thanks for pointing this out Maus.

Only reason why I gave the link to the ritalindeath site and not directly to the bill, is because in a way, the bill is biased too... I mean, after all, they aren't going to say the negative aspects of what the bill will cause, only give you that re-assurance that, "Hmm, screening children to see if they have any problems and make their life better with a plan... that IS a good idea!" Yeah, on the surface it sounds like a wonderful plan, but if you look at the possible down-sides to the plan, you can see problems with it.

[Timfro]

People are lazy. Its much easier to get rid of the symptoms then to cure someone, so we get rid of the symptoms. And then people want a quick and easy solution for everything else so people make more pills to solves more problems. fucken pills

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/23/05 02:27 AM, Timfro wrote: fucken pills

Amen.

[Kwadjo]

Its dehumanization my friend. Back in the day their was no tylenol, you had to accept your head ache, and wait it out. No doubt there was always a medicine man, but there was no complaining about head aches. I say remove children from television, put them back into their natural environment. Let the take on every moment of life, in order to overcome boredom. And then maybe they may gain an infinite attention span, or stop being depressed, or stop complaining.

[Maus]

1 - Aspirin and other analgesics have been around for a very, very long time.

2 - If television is present from birth on, wouldn't that constitute a 'natural environment?' Taking these away from children does not solve the problem. What must be done is teaching children how to handle the inundation of infotainment in today's age. Otherwise, you run the risk of culture shock when they are finally exposed to the maw of the internet. We need less of those people, not more. Teach them how to use the tools, don't lock them away.

[fastbow]

it took me 16 years to realize I was hyperactive. I was just like all the other kids. Even kids with ADD and ADHD can control their condition. Just knock them upside the head once.

[BrickMurus]

Pills, we need our wonderful pills. Pills are just another way to show what is wrong with this country. People need to deal with their damn problems or have someone smack them upside the head. Oh I am so depressed, watch a movie about concentration camps or the plight of many people in third world countries, see if you have anything to be depressed about. If you are 80, you don't need a boner damn it, you might break your hip messing around with your wife like that. We take pills so we do not have to face reality, to solve our own problems, it is the easy way out.

[poxpower]

At 2/23/05 08:52 AM, Maus wrote:

Teach them how to use the tools, don't lock them away.

I see.... more guns!
Must... teach.. tools... must... teach guns... and knifes... and sharp objects.... :o

[JoS]

At 2/22/05 03:09 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote: So my question: Why has it become the way of our culture to take a pill to solve a problem?

Because it is easier than changing themselves. People are too lazy to make lifestyle changes so they pop a pill. Like weight loss pills.

[pyrochickenLH]

im glad i live in canada!

[Z17]

I would say it would be a pretty good idea to do what they did 40 years ago. If a kid was "hyperactive", they put him on the football team. Or if they were "socially retarded" they just got over it naturally.

I've never really been a fan of pills for things that could othwise be solved through natural means.

~Z~

[Samuel-HALL]

At 2/23/05 04:52 AM, Kwadjo wrote: Its dehumanization my friend. Back in the day their was no tylenol, you had to accept your head ache, and wait it out.

Yea, man. Back in the good ol' days, we didn't even steralize surgical instruments. You just had to be a man, and fight the infection.
It's called 'medical advancement'. Why would I 'deal' with a headache, if I can take two Advil, and be dandy? What 'benefit' do I recieve from 'waiting out' a headache?

No doubt there was always a medicine man, but there was no complaining about head aches.

'Medicine Men' usually sold 'cure-all' tonics and remedies, which consisted mainly of alcohol, or some form of ether, or laudanum.
So instead of Tylenol, they just had Alcohol, and opiates.
That's DEFINITELY safer than Advil.

I say remove children from television, put them back into their natural environment.

Yea, and fuck penicillen! It's time we be real men, and beat those infections ourselves!

And then maybe they may gain an infinite attention span, or stop being depressed, or stop complaining.

All that shit is just part of growing up. It's just what people do, as they grow up, IMO.
On the whole ADD thing, you have my support. I was 'diagnosed' with ADD, and the school downright demanded I be put on some form of medication. My parents refused, and I, quite literally, grew out of it.

At 2/23/05 11:58 AM, CaptBrick wrote: Oh I am so depressed, watch a movie about concentration camps or the plight of many people in third world countries, see if you have anything to be depressed about.

Most cases of 'depression' are caused by a chemical imbalance in one's brain.
You seem to think people suffering from depression are just 'feeling blue'.

If you are 80, you don't need a boner damn it, you might break your hip messing around with your wife like that.

So, because of one is elderly, they should be denied the right to make love to their signifigant other?
No one cares that you don't like thinking about 'old people sex'. You probably pretend your parents don't have sex, but they do. So do your grandparents.

We take pills so we do not have to face reality, to solve our own problems, it is the easy way out.

When I have a chemical imbalance, which results in depression, this is the reality: Because of the imbalance of chemicals in my brain, nothing will change without treatment. Enviroment doesn't always matter, with chemical imbalances. It just IS. And medication alleviates that imbalance. THAT'S reality.
When I'm seventy years old, and I'm denied the priviledge of having sex with my wife...THAT'S my reality. And it's not a particurlaly good reality, is it?
But if I could take a pill, and suddenly I can have sex with my wife, after several years of impotency...it would change my reality to something much better. Why is that immoral? Under what definitions is that 'wrong'?

For the record, I'm against most asthetic medications. And that includes everything from weight loss pills to anti-wrinkle creams. But if a medications has a practical purpose, and applicable remedy...why should we not use it? If benefits of a said drug outweigh potential side effects...what makes it wrong?

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/23/05 10:13 PM, Damien_FLAGG wrote: It's called 'medical advancement'. Why would I 'deal' with a headache, if I can take two Advil, and be dandy? What 'benefit' do I recieve from 'waiting out' a headache?

Although I'm not exactly going to go on the record with what I'm about to say (as in saying it is a medical fact), although things like tylenol seem harmless, I'm not so sure. I mean, as a personal example (and only a personal example) my friends get headaches more often than I do (for me, it's Extremely rare to get a headache). I don't take tylenol if I do get a headache, nor have I ever once I had control over what I wanted to take medically (as in, not when I was let's say 4 years old and my mom might have given me one). We know that tylenol doesn't appear to have any short term side effects, but what about long term? You see, whenever you take a drug (reguardless) to for either medical or recreational use, -sometimes- it mimics a natural chemical that our body produces to give us the desired results. With frequent use, our body will get used to having this environmental chemical constantly entering our body, with will begin to supress our own natural chemicals that our brain produces... this in turn weakens our own chemical producing neurons, which can lead to such things as addictions. What is my point in all of this? We have to watch out for what "medical advancements" give us, because although medication can aleviate the symptom quicker than our body, by taking certain meds, it in turn, weakens our natural chemical producing neurons in our brain. ;) just a heads up.

'Medicine Men' usually sold 'cure-all' tonics and remedies, which consisted mainly of alcohol, or some form of ether, or laudanum.
So instead of Tylenol, they just had Alcohol, and opiates.
That's DEFINITELY safer than Advil.

Hah, well it depends what kind of medicine man we're talking about here, but you're right.

All that shit is just part of growing up. It's just what people do, as they grow up, IMO.
On the whole ADD thing, you have my support. I was 'diagnosed' with ADD, and the school downright demanded I be put on some form of medication. My parents refused, and I, quite literally, grew out of it.

Actually, you'd be surprised how technological advancements affect the human body and behaviour. Recently, there has been a correlation between when television watching increased over generations, to the increase of ADD in our society. You see, although we are a generation that is able to obsorb information faster (even children with an age difference of a decade have been found), there is a downside... we become less patient. With the invention of technology, our brains, ever since we were young, have been heavily stimulated almost constantly. This overstimulation of the brain (where there appears to be more neurons firing in the brain at a faster rate than your 'average' person should be... or compared to a preson in the past in comparison) also causes the attention capacity of the individual to decrease... and so then we have cases of ADD become more apparent. Hah... sorry for the science lesson, this is all stuff that I just recently learned in Psychology.

At 2/23/05 11:58 AM, CaptBrick wrote: Oh I am so depressed, watch a movie about concentration camps or the plight of many people in third world countries, see if you have anything to be depressed about.

Most cases of 'depression' are caused by a chemical imbalance in one's brain.
You seem to think people suffering from depression are just 'feeling blue'.

Absolutely correct about the chemical imbalances (ie, dopamine and seratonin)... however, you must then question 'why' these imbalances are occuring. Instead of popping a pill, researchers are finding that a change in diet or more exercise can alleviate the symptoms. It's all the fast food and preservatives we are eating these days... it's fucking us up without us seeing any visible symptoms... but we can feel it.

So, because of one is elderly, they should be denied the right to make love to their signifigant other?
No one cares that you don't like thinking about 'old people sex'. You probably pretend your parents don't have sex, but they do. So do your grandparents.

Yeah, I have to admit... old people want sex just about as much as we do, but because their bodies won't permit it, they are denied the pleasure. In cases like these, I think taking Viagra or other pills similar to it, are alright. I mean come on, they're going to die soon anyways... may as well let them have some fun.

When I have a chemical imbalance, which results in depression, this is the reality: Because of the imbalance of chemicals in my brain, nothing will change without treatment. Enviroment doesn't always matter, with chemical imbalances. It just IS. And medication alleviates that imbalance. THAT'S reality.

I think I have already addressed this issue. Just because we have a chemical imbalance in our brain, it does not -always- mean that we need a chemical solution... it may just mean that we're doing something unhealthy in our lifestyle that is causing the imbalance.

When I'm seventy years old, and I'm denied the priviledge of having sex with my wife...THAT'S my reality. And it's not a particurlaly good reality, is it?
But if I could take a pill, and suddenly I can have sex with my wife, after several years of impotency...it would change my reality to something much better. Why is that immoral? Under what definitions is that 'wrong'?

I don't think it is... but that's just me.

For the record, I'm against most asthetic medications. And that includes everything from weight loss pills to anti-wrinkle creams. But if a medications has a practical purpose, and applicable remedy...why should we not use it? If benefits of a said drug outweigh potential side effects...what makes it wrong?

Yeah, I'm against drugs when there are proven alternatives. I'm aware that there are some medications out there that are necessary, so by all means, I'm not saying we burn down every pharmacy out there. It's just that our society has become just too damned lazy to find the real cause of their symptoms, which is a shame, because if you can discover and treat your issues, the symptoms can go away permanently.

[MoralChaos]

At 2/22/05 04:35 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote:

At 2/22/05 04:06 PM, red_skunk wrote:

At 2/22/05 03:09 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote: So my question: Why has it become the way of our culture to take a pill to solve a problem?

It's easy.

Children not acting right? Pill em. Feeling blue? Down a pill. Can't get your dick up for your average, moderately-attractive, middle-class suburban wife?

There's a pill for that.

Sadly, there are MANY pills for that lol

Also, I would say that people are just lazy. Why go through the troubles of figuring out what's wrong with you and what you're doing to further those problems. Who cares what the side-effects are, as long as this one problem goes away immediately. (Hmm, can you tell that I have a beef with the pharmaceutical company?)

While I do see your point, wouldn't it make since to use the medication while you're trying to figure what is wrong with you so that the effects of whatever disorder you're suffering from doesn't get in the way.

[night-watch-man18]

At 2/24/05 01:07 AM, MoralChaos wrote:

While I do see your point, wouldn't it make since to use the medication while you're trying to figure what is wrong with you so that the effects of whatever disorder you're suffering from doesn't get in the way.

Hmm, that's a good point. I mean, it makes sense on the surface.
Well, I guess it really depends on the person, and on what the side effects of the medication may cause.

If people use the pills temporarily and take measures to fix their problems, then you're right, I'm all for it. What I fear, is that people will begin taking the pills and start to believe that they are feeling better and then just forget about solving the issue that's bugging them, and get wrapped up in the routine of life. Also, if you take pills to alleviate the symptoms, then how will you know when you're feeling better if the pills are making you feel better? I suppose the person could take the pills, try and resolve their problem, and then when they think they have it figured out, slowly go off the medication... but then, it would really depend on what the issue is and what medication it is that they're taking. This idea may work for such problems as depression, but I could see how it could run into problems with something such as ADD... but that's just a guess really.

I also just thought how it probably isn't very healthy for your body to be going on and off of medication if you were to use this method. Trying to return back to a form of homeostasis biologically could either be very difficult, or could even ruined the chances of recovery if there is a cycle of using and then going off of the medication. Hmmm....

I think this is really dependant on the determination of the individual and the reason why they are having troubles in the first place. Good point though, and to be honest, it wasn't an idea that I had thought of.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 2/23/05 11:13 PM, night_watch_man18 wrote:

At 2/23/05 10:13 PM, Damien_FLAGG wrote: It's called 'medical advancement'. Why would I 'deal' with a headache, if I can take two Advil, and be dandy? What 'benefit' do I recieve from 'waiting out' a headache?

Although I'm not exactly going to go on the record with what I'm about to say (as in saying it is a medical fact), although things like tylenol seem harmless, I'm not so sure.

Well, take Acetemetaphine as an example.
Acetemetaphine is proven safe, when it is not overdosed.
The only problem is people (un)intentionally taking too much.

:We know that tylenol doesn't appear to have any short term side effects, but what about long term?
Tylenol has been sold, over-the-counter, since 1959.
Fourty six years is long enough for people to, theoretically, take tylenol their whole life. Is not 46 years, and some people's entire lives, long enough to assume there are no long term effects?
Acetemetaphine is the number one recommended pain reliever for pregnant women...if that puts things into perspective.

With frequent use, our body will get used to having this environmental chemical constantly entering our body, with will begin to supress our own natural chemicals that our brain produces... this in turn weakens our own chemical producing neurons, which can lead to such things as addictions.

The only pain relievers that you can get addicted to are one's with narcotics. Tylenol w/Codeine, for example, has a slight risk of addiction.
There is no proven tests that reveal addictive properties of non-narcotic OTC drugs.

'Medicine Men' usually sold 'cure-all' tonics and remedies, which consisted mainly of alcohol, or some form of ether, or laudanum.
So instead of Tylenol, they just had Alcohol, and opiates.
That's DEFINITELY safer than Advil.

Hah, well it depends what kind of medicine man we're talking about here, but you're right.

No, not 'some medicine' men. There were very few things to alleviate pain, in that day in age (at least compared to the things we have now). Most 'pain relievers' were opiates, or alcohol, or both. And both opiates and alcohol have a huge risk of addiction.

Which makes it even funnier, when you bring up medicine men, but call Tylenol 'chemically addictive'.

It's called a medical 'advancement' for a reason.

At 2/23/05 11:58 AM, CaptBrick wrote: Oh I am so depressed, watch a movie about concentration camps or the plight of many people in third world countries, see if you have anything to be depressed about.

Most cases of 'depression' are caused by a chemical imbalance in one's brain.
You seem to think people suffering from depression are just 'feeling blue'.

Absolutely correct about the chemical imbalances (ie, dopamine and seratonin)... however, you must then question 'why' these imbalances are occuring.

It's a natural chemical balance...a flaw in the chemistry of the body. There is no 'why', other than some people have an imbalance, and some don't.

Instead of popping a pill, researchers are finding that a change in diet or more exercise can alleviate the symptoms.

Excercise will not change the chemical makeup of my brain, I don't think. You're telling me anyone who has a chemical imbalance, which leads to depression, can simply Jog every morning...and be fine?

It's all the fast food and preservatives we are eating these days... it's fucking us up without us seeing any visible symptoms... but we can feel it.

Lol. You have no scientific basis to link depression to preservatives in food.

I think I have already addressed this issue. Just because we have a chemical imbalance in our brain, it does not -always- mean that we need a chemical solution... it may just mean that we're doing something unhealthy in our lifestyle that is causing the imbalance.

Sure, in some cases, enviroment has an effect. In other cases, it doesn't. Excercise and a healthy diet may work for a small minority of chemical imbalances...but most need a chemical solution.

Yeah, I'm against drugs when there are proven alternatives. I'm aware that there are some medications out there that are necessary, so by all means, I'm not saying we burn down every pharmacy out there. It's just that our society has become just too damned lazy to find the real cause of their symptoms, which is a shame, because if you can discover and treat your issues, the symptoms can go away permanently.

In some diseases, an 'alternative solution' to medication is viable. In many, however, there's just no choice.