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night-watch-man18
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 15:59:22 Reply

At 3/3/05 03:46 PM, Maus wrote: These threads are really circular, especially after about 6 pages. Same arguments, same fallacies (on both sides,) same examples, and so on.

What else do you expect? If someone just joins in on the discussion, most people don't bother to read the previous pages because it is too much work. It is then up to the people who have been on this debate for a long time, to tell the n00bs that their arguments have already been said, and give reasons behind it so they believe you.

Apathy, what a pain in the ass. I'd do something to fight apathy, but I just don't feel like.... alright, that was pretty lame humour, but you get the idea.

Acosta
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 16:14:00 Reply

Thanks for the history lesson... what does this pedophiliac community have to do with gays exactly?

well a argument that I hear come up a good bit is that allowing gay marriage will start a downward trend of society. They'll often bring up incest and what not. The old 'where' do we draw the line? Which is interesting because a large portion of the population is also against gun control. They want the line to be drawn as far as the institution of marriage but not as far as instruments of killing.

But incest, pedophiles or marrying your dog is so far removed from the gay debate that it's pointless to even argue with the person at that point. The basis of the argument is gays. And the key part is gay marriage...well why can't they have a civil union and just be happy with that? Well I'm glad you asked Mr.Voice...

issues with just giving gays civil unions and not a state recognized marriage:

- with civil unions the way it is setup now you would have to re-establish that union if you ever moved to a new state. Requiring tons in legal fees if it is even legal in the new state. Marriage is recognized by all states based on the laws of the state the couple were married in.

- If you have an auto accident your wife can make medical decisions on your behalf, be informed of your medical condition etc. This does not hold true for civil unions

- Civil Unions cannot confer any of the Federal benefits. Such as Social Security, military or private pensions cannot be transferred with a Civil Union.

- A couple in a civil union could be brought up in trial to testify against their partner. If married this is not possible.

- A couple could not have the dignity to be buried together in a National Cemetery if one is a veteran.

- Cannot file a joint tax return

- If you are married, you can get divorced in any state in which you are a resident. But if states continue to disrespect civil unions, there is no way to end the relationship other than by establishing residency in Vermont and filing for divorce there. This has already created problems for some couples who now have no way to terminate their legal commitment.

- According to a 1997 GAO report, civil marriage brings with it at least 1,049 legal protections and responsibilities from the federal government, including the right to take leave from work to care for a family member, the right to sponsor a spouse for immigration purposes, and Social Security survivor benefits that can make a difference between old age in poverty and old age in security. Civil unions bring none of these critical legal protections.

- Because the federal government does not respect civil unions, a couple with a civil union will be in a kind of limbo with regard to governmental functions performed by both state and federal governments, such as taxation, pension protections, provision of insurance for families, and means-tested programs like Medicaid. Even when states try to provide legal protections, they may be foreclosed from doing so in joint federal/state programs

- Though people may think about marriage in different ways, there are only two types of marriage - either civil or religious. In some ceremonies, both are celebrated at once. Couples may have one or both types of marriage. However, to receive the legal protections of marriage, a couple must have a civil marriage. It is only civil marriage that can be addressed by courts or legislatures.

- The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects every citizen's right to freedom of religion: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The founders of American government made it clear from the beginning that in this new nation religion and government would exist side by side, and the law would not define religious practice. In addition to allowing free rein to religious practice, our Constitution protects freedom of religion by preventing any one religion from dictating the content of law. For all religious views to be protected and respected, it is critical that laws not be made with a particular religious viewpoint in mind, including laws about civil marriage. As a result of American freedom of religion, each faith can independently answer the question of whether they wish gay and lesbian couples to marry within their religious tradition, and this will remain true no matter what the government does with regard to civil marriage

Murdocc
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 16:21:03 Reply

At 2/5/05 08:17 PM, DavSngSorrow wrote: why do people hate gay people they act like it is a disease or something this fuckin pisses me off i am gay myself

People hate gays for the same reason they hate any other group of people. I happen to think it’s pointless to gripe about these sorts of things. Its not like you can change these peoples minds. Then again, I’m a straight white male so no one has ever openly hated me or been intolerant of me that I’m aware of, so perhaps I’m not the best to talk.

36noir
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 16:29:49 Reply

At 3/3/05 03:51 PM, mofomojo wrote: Gay people don't choose to be gay

Care to prove how this is so?

Acosta
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 16:31:25 Reply

At 3/3/05 04:29 PM, 36noir wrote:
At 3/3/05 03:51 PM, mofomojo wrote: Gay people don't choose to be gay
Care to prove how this is so?

there is a school of thought in the gay community that want to establish it as a choice. They fear that if it is some chemical / biological difference that people will want to remove this from children and pre-determine their lifestyle.

RBS13
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 16:32:55 Reply

At 3/3/05 04:14 PM, Acosta wrote: - The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects every citizen's right to freedom of religion: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The founders of American government made it clear from the beginning that in this new nation religion and government would exist side by side, and the law would not define religious practice. In addition to allowing free rein to religious practice, our Constitution protects freedom of religion by preventing any one religion from dictating the content of law. For all religious views to be protected and respected, it is critical that laws not be made with a particular religious viewpoint in mind, including laws about civil marriage. As a result of American freedom of religion, each faith can independently answer the question of whether they wish gay and lesbian couples to marry within their religious tradition, and this will remain true no matter what the government does with regard to civil marriage

just wanted to mention here that not all christian denominations are as conservative as you make them out to be. I'd like to point out that the Episcopal church is very liberal. I'm pretty sure that my rector would marry a gay couple. a gay man can become a priest almost anything. but that's juts a side note...

i'd also like to defend the muncher guy (the hypocrit ;)) He is free to think whatever the hell he wants. you can tell him what he believes and how he acts is wrong, but it is his right to do whatever he pleases (as long as it doesn't negativly effect anyone else) but after saying that i also agree that it is a gay mans right to do whatever he pleases (as long as it doesn't negativly effect anyone else) so meh, i

Acosta
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 16:36:17 Reply

just wanted to mention here that not all christian denominations are as conservative as you make them out to be. I'd like to point out that the Episcopal church is very liberal. I'm pretty sure that my rector would marry a gay couple. a gay man can become a priest almost anything. but that's juts a side note...

well that all falls under Religious marriage - which the government doesn't recognize. The overall battle for gay marriage is for civil marriages - which gets you the benefits. Which is the main battle going on - it is not a battle of gays vs. religions because really religion doesn't come into play at all with a civil marriage. You just go to the courthouse and you're done...no religion touched or effected at all.

night-watch-man18
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 18:14:21 Reply

At 3/3/05 04:14 PM, Acosta wrote:
Thanks for the history lesson... what does this pedophiliac community have to do with gays exactly?
well a argument that I hear come up a good bit is that allowing gay marriage will start a downward trend of society. They'll often bring up incest and what not. The old 'where' do we draw the line? Which is interesting because a large portion of the population is also against gun control. They want the line to be drawn as far as the institution of marriage but not as far as instruments of killing.

Yeah, I understand this argument.. "where do we draw the line"... only thing about gay marriage is that this has no proven negative effects if the two are consulting adults.

Pedophiliacs- Proven to be harmful to the child.
Beastiality- Non-consent with the animal... an animal is not able to voice it's opinion because it does not have one. That is why we have animal cruelty laws in place.
Incest- Biological genes weaken the species.
Gay Marriage- Ummm.... pure opinion with, so far, no evidence of negative effects to society or others.

I say we allow it, and if some time passes, or we have advancements in research, that show us how Gay Marriage is harmful, then it will be put up for debate and reconsideration. So far (as hard as some groups have tried) no evidence shows an immediate, or any harm, in gay marriage.

night-watch-man18
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 18:22:56 Reply

At 3/3/05 04:29 PM, 36noir wrote:
At 3/3/05 03:51 PM, mofomojo wrote: Gay people don't choose to be gay
Care to prove how this is so?

There is no HARD scientific proof that it is a choice. I ask you then... prove to me that God exists. There is no HARD proof of this, however, governments are usually run by God.

Homosexuality and choice are still being researched today. From what we have seen though, biologically, gays are hard-wired to be attracted to the same sex. Even testimonials of a lot of the gay community tell us that they had always felt this way and didn't simply "choose" to be gay, but it was something that was always with them.

But if you want proof... ummm... go to University and take a Psychology course? That's the best advice that I can give you. We looked at sexuality and how the brain determines it, soooo if you are able to, get your hands on a copy of, "Psychology: The Science of Behaviour, Second Edition"... it'll cost you about 70 bucks Canadian though and they don't exactly sell them in stores or keep a copy in the library.

That's the problem, there is no pure proof to it. However, the correlation is strong enough that we can assume that it is true. But as I said, we are still doing research to try and find some hard proof to it.

Agamemnon-8L
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 18:50:11 Reply

Why, it is simple my good man. Homosexuals are the scape goats of the 21st century. If anything goes bad in some nation, they just blame the people who are different in order to solve thier problem. It happens all the time.

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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 19:01:02 Reply

Personally i have no problems with gays, i aint gay or anything. I just have respect. And this gay marrage thing is a little tricky, cause i would let the gays marry cause i guess they love each other but if they want to adopt a kid, thats a harder issue. Imagine the mockery from dick heads that the children will get. I cannot answer that question my self.


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jmaster306
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 19:20:57 Reply

Ok Gutmunchr, let me see if I got this correct. You personally don't particularly like homosexuality, in fact you wish it didn't exist. However, you still treat homosexuals with respect as people despite your personal feelings. As for their rights, you do not stand to take away anything they have but do not wish to allow gay marriage. I'm not doing this to patronize you but I feel like I don't actually understand what your opinion is. So yeah, feel free to correct anything I've said.

Saywihee
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 19:57:41 Reply

Oh I've gotten along with lots and lots of homosexual people.

It's just when a lesbian starts hitting on me and won't stop when I ask them not to is when I get aggrivated.

Also it's when Homosexual men get arrested for OPENLY have sex in a public park where MANY children can see them for indecent exposure complain saying that their rights have been compramised because their being discrimiated against.

I have no problems against people's sexual preference it's just that when they try to create a double standard is when I get anry.

BAWLS
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 20:04:36 Reply

At 3/3/05 07:57 PM, Saywihee wrote: It's just when a lesbian starts hitting on me and won't stop when I ask them not to is when I get aggrivated.

Just do it. You'll get more boyfriends. LOT'S more. ;)

Also it's when Homosexual men get arrested for OPENLY have sex in a public park where MANY children can see them for indecent exposure complain saying that their rights have been compramised because their being discrimiated against.

BAH. In Texas and Kansas, gay sex is ILLEGAL. If the cops randomly bust in your house or something, and you're getting banged by another dude, they’re gonna bust your ass.

Saywihee
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-03 20:16:52 Reply

At 3/3/05 08:04 PM, -BAWLS- wrote:
At 3/3/05 07:57 PM, Saywihee wrote: It's just when a lesbian starts hitting on me and won't stop when I ask them not to is when I get aggrivated.
Just do it. You'll get more boyfriends. LOT'S more. ;)

Hell no Pervert!!!

If I get a boyfriend I'm going to get one not by making out with a girl. I'll do it by actually interacting with the guy and finding out that we like eachother.

night-watch-man18
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 13:54:52 Reply

At 3/3/05 07:01 PM, almightyhans wrote: Personally i have no problems with gays, i aint gay or anything. I just have respect. And this gay marrage thing is a little tricky, cause i would let the gays marry cause i guess they love each other but if they want to adopt a kid, thats a harder issue. Imagine the mockery from dick heads that the children will get. I cannot answer that question my self.

This is true, but then you have to take into consideration that kids will make fun of other kids for ANY reason. If you are wearing blue shoes, if you have black hair, what the job of your parent is, if you wear glasses.... so really, I don't think that this is a great argument as to why homosexuals can't raise children.

Maus
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 14:00:19 Reply

At 3/3/05 07:57 PM, Saywihee wrote: Oh I've gotten along with lots and lots of homosexual people.

It's just when a lesbian starts hitting on me and won't stop when I ask them not to is when I get aggrivated.

Understandable. I feel the same way about straight guys that do the same. Jerks are jerks.

Also it's when Homosexual men get arrested for OPENLY have sex in a public park where MANY children can see them for indecent exposure complain saying that their rights have been compramised because their being discrimiated against.

Such a pitiful minority of the gay men in this country complain like that.

Most of the complaining being done by the gay community is about the right to get married civilly, to adopt children, to keep our jobs safe, etc.

I have no problems against people's sexual preference it's just that when they try to create a double standard is when I get anry.

Like the double standards that the law upholds?

Maus
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 14:01:14 Reply

At 3/3/05 08:04 PM, -BAWLS- wrote: BAH. In Texas and Kansas, gay sex is ILLEGAL. If the cops randomly bust in your house or something, and you're getting banged by another dude, they’re gonna bust your ass.

No it is not illegal. The Supreme Court struck down sodomy laws last year.

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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 14:27:37 Reply

Why do people hate gays?

Maybe it's because of the homosexual agenda.

The Homosexual Agenda

8:00 a.m. Wake up. Wonder where you are.

8:01 a.m. Realize you are lying on 100 percent cotton sheets of at least a 300 count, so don't panic; you're not slumming.

8:02 a.m. Realize you are actually in your own bed for a change. Wake stranger next to you and tell them you are late for work so won't be able to cook breakfast for them. Mutter "sorry" as you help him look for his far-flung underwear. You find out that you tore his boxers while ripping them off him last night, so you "loan" him a pair of boxer-briefs, but not the new ones because you never intend to see him again.

8:05 a.m. Tell the stranger, whose name eludes you, "It was fun. I'll give you a call," as you usher him out the door, avoiding his egregious morning-breath.

8:06 a.m. Crumple and dispose of the piece of paper with his telephone number on it when you get to the kitchen.

8:07 a.m. Make a high protein breakfast while watching the Today show. Wonder if the stories you've heard about Matt Lauer are true. Decide they must be.

8:30 a.m. Italian or domestic? Decide to go with three-button Italian and the only shirt that is clean.

8:45 a.m. Climb into red Z4 and try not to look too much like Barbie driving one of her accessories as you pull out of your underground parking. Revos or Armanis? Go with Revos.

9:35 a.m. Stroll into office.

9:36 a.m. Close door to office and call best friend and laugh about the guy who spent the night at your condo. Point out something annoying about best friend's boyfriend but quickly add "It doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, just as long as you love him."

10:15 a.m. Leave office, telling your secretary you are "meeting with a client." Pretend not to notice her insubordinate roll of her eyes (or the cloying "poem" she has tacked to her cubicle wall).

10:30 a.m. Hair appointment for lowlights and cut. Purchase of Aveda anti-humectant pomade.

11:30 a.m. Run into personal trainer at gym. Pester him about getting you Human Growth Hormone. Spend 30 minutes talking to friends on your cell phone while using Hammer Strength machines, preparing a mental-matrix of which circuit parties everyone is going to and which are now passe.

12:00pm Tan. Schedule back-waxing in time for Saturday party where you know you will end up shirtless.

12:30 p.m. Pay trainer for anabolic steroids and schedule a workout. Shower, taking ten minutes to knot your tie while you check-out your best friend's boyfriend undress with the calculation of someone used to wearing a t-back and having dollars stuffed in their crotch.

1:00 p.m. Meet someone for whom you only know his waist, chest and penis size from AOL M4M chat for lunch at a hot, new restaurant. Because the maître d' recognizes you from a gay bar, you are whisked past the Christian heterosexual couples who have been waiting patiently for a table since 12:30.

2:30 p.m. "Dessert at your place." Find out, once again, people lie on AOL.

3:33 p.m. Assume complete control of the U.S., state, and local governments (in addition to other nations' governments); destroy all healthy Christian marriages; recruit all children grades Kindergarten through 12 into your amoral, filthy lifestyle; secure complete control of the media, starting with sitcoms; molest innocent children; give AIDS to as many people as you can; host a pornographic "art" exhibit at your local art museum; and turn people away from Jesus, causing them to burn forever in Hell.

4:10 p.m. Time permitting, bring about the general decline of Western Civilization and look like you are having way too much fun doing it.

4:30 p.m. Take a disco-nap to prevent facial wrinkles from the stress of world conquest and being so terribly witty.

6:00 p.m. Open a fabulous new bottle of Malbec.

6:47 P.M. Bake Ketamine for weekend. Test recipe.

7:00 P.M. Go to Abercrombie & Fitch and announce in a loud voice, "Over!"

7:40 P.M. Stop looking at the photographic displays at Abercrombie & Fitch and go to a cool store to begin shopping.

8:30 p.m. Light dinner with catty homosexual friends at a restaurant you will be "over" by the time it gets its first review in the local paper.

10:30 p.m. Cocktails at a debauched gay bar, trying to avoid alcoholic queens who can't navigate a crowd with a lit cigarette in one hand and a Stoli in a cheap plastic cup in the other. Make audible remark about how "trashy" people who still think smoking is acceptable are.

12:00 a.m. "Nightcap at your place." Find out that people lie in bars, too.

jmaster306
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 14:45:39 Reply

At 3/4/05 02:27 PM, IrvingWarsh wrote: Why do people hate gays?

Maybe it's because of the homosexual agenda.

Hermie, why don't you just post with your real account anymore? Enough with all the alts already, we all know it's you.

Maus
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 14:52:09 Reply

At 3/4/05 02:45 PM, jmaster306 wrote: Hermie, why don't you just post with your real account anymore? Enough with all the alts already, we all know it's you.

Because he can't.

Just ignore him.

night-watch-man18
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 15:10:43 Reply

At 3/4/05 02:52 PM, Maus wrote: Because he can't.

Just ignore him.

Done and done.

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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 15:13:04 Reply

i'd like to point out that i myself am a gay christian, and christianity as a whole, is hardly like that crap that was just posted.

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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 16:39:56 Reply

At 3/4/05 03:13 PM, RBS13 wrote: i'd like to point out that i myself am a gay christian, and christianity as a whole, is hardly like that crap that was just posted.

Y'know, I would somewhat agree with you, but I can't, because you're talking about a non-existant post made by a non-existant person.

Empanado
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 16:42:22 Reply

At 3/4/05 03:13 PM, RBS13 wrote: i'd like to point out that i myself am a gay christian.

By the way, already certain of your homosexuality? And you're 15? Well, that's new stuff for me.

night-watch-man18
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 17:30:13 Reply

At 3/4/05 04:42 PM, Empanado wrote:
At 3/4/05 03:13 PM, RBS13 wrote: i'd like to point out that i myself am a gay christian.
By the way, already certain of your homosexuality? And you're 15? Well, that's new stuff for me.

It shouldn't be... we have already discussed how a majority of gays have known that they were gay for a long time, just as a majority of straight people have known that they were straight for a long time. Sure, some people go through that 'curious' stage where they aren't a 100% sure, and then there are those who become bisexual and realize that they are happy being with both genders (although there usually is a preferance to one)... point being that most people know what their sexuality is when they hit their maturing years.

fli
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 17:38:22 Reply

At 3/4/05 04:42 PM, Empanado wrote:
At 3/4/05 03:13 PM, RBS13 wrote: i'd like to point out that i myself am a gay christian.
By the way, already certain of your homosexuality? And you're 15? Well, that's new stuff for me.

I think empanado maybe correct in this respect.
I knew something was different about me when I was younger. I was concious about it even as a kid, because I distinctly remeber liking how a masculine male body (like He-Man) looked when compared to a feminine female body (like She-Ra). I tried to shrug it off, and by the time I became a teen, I knew this wouldn't shrug away. I got uber-evil and cynical.

And remember being 15, I can say that those are really confusing years. Haromones raging, crazy emotions, school stress, etc. It wasn't until I was 17 going on 18 that I truly confronted myself.

I don't know, I'm not saying you're not gay. Just making a point at age 15, sometimes people can't understand themselves (just like me).

Nonetheless, my blessings to you. I certainly respect you for keeping Christianity in your heart when it could be not nice to homosexuals. Not all sects, of course, but still I respect you for being gay and Christian. I'm gay, but I'm an Aetheist (grew up Roman Catholic). Although I do have my own copy of the Bible which I still do read, and I certainly act like a Christian, but the only reason why I can't say I'm a Christian is because I don't believe in God. But Christianity has so many good lessons about being a good person, though many Christians sometimes forget those lessons.

You should read Corpus Christi by Terrence McNally. It is a contraversial but beautiful play about a boy named Joshua. The reason why it's so contraverial is because he depicts the life of Jesus. It got a lot of death threats, and protests. But the irony is that this is aChristian play. This part made me cry:

Judas Good night, Simon.(To us) What will you give me to betray Him to you? You know my price. Thirty pieces of silver. Not much for a place in history. Most of you will pass away quietly in your beds, or gasping for air in some miserable hospital, and your goings will be as unremarkable as your lives. Think about it.
[High Priest] tosses a bag of coins that lands in front of JUDAS.
High Priest Thirty pieces of silver. You boys make it very easy for us.
Judas Thank you, father, we try.
High Priest But this one, He's a dangerous man.
Judas What is His crime?
High Priest Blasphemy.
Judas Because He says He's the son of God?
High Priest No, because He says you're the son of God as well.

Maus
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 17:39:56 Reply

When I was 15 and younger, I had an idea that I liked girls way too much. It's not outlandish.

Kieland
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 17:52:01 Reply

Why do people hate gay people? Because they are ignorant, homophobic dicks who think that if gay people have their way in the government everyone in the country will become gay, which is complete bullshit and proves how ignorant these people are.

Or...

It is religious exteremists who believe that somewhere in the Bible Jesus denounces gays, though I have yet to see such a passage, and who also think that if gay people have their way in the government organized religion will fall over and die and the institution of marriage will be destroyed. Then again these people should take a long hard look at how marriage is so lightly tossed away in this country by the thousands of couples who divorce and cheat on one another and loose all romantic intrest in each other before they claim that gays alone will kill marriage.

kangarooka
kangarooka
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Response to why do people hate gay people 2005-03-04 18:16:26 Reply

Tolerance and understanding can be hard sometimes.

But even in the most unlikely situations, it's not impossible. I used to have a really good friend. He was a devout Roman Catholic. Thus, he believed my sexuality was wrong.

However, out of mutual respect for each other, we managed to maintain our friendship - very well, in fact. He accepted that I did not choose to be gay, I simply am. I accepted his view on a religious basis and by mutual agreement, the topic of my sexuality was not raised.

Of course, there was the occasion when he'd try to encourage me to come to church with him, or something similar - heh - but not once during our friendship did either of us try to change each other.

I've been friends with homophobes in the past as well, and their view on gay people changed. I didn't change it - not intentionally, anyway. In most cases I was their friend before they knew about my sexuality.

Once they knew, they had a choice: accept that anyone could be gay - one of their friends, or family - and that their stereotypes of gays were wrong; or cease to be friends with me, simply on the grounds of my sexuality. Which can't really be justified in that situation.

Fortunately, they chose the former.

Sadly; the diverse nature of society means it doesn't lend itself well to tolerance - rather ironic, considering that if society was not diverse, tolerance would not be required.