Liberals Dont Want You To Know...

[FUNKbrs]

What the REAL point of all this "separation of church and state" crap is about.

Lets start on some equal, ground, k?

1: THE LIBERALS ARE NOT USING SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE TO STOP STATE FUNERALS.

Think about that. Science CLEARLY states the best use for a corpse is as an organ donor, and the best disposal of a corpse is a cremation. The body itself is actually of no moral consequence, because the person inside it is dead.

Why do we have funerals then? DUH. RELIGION. A funeral is a send off into the afterlife, the last chance to look at the body of a departed soul.

This means that state funded funerals violate separation of church and state, right? And the Ten Commandments in Congress too, right?

WHATS REALLY GOING ON:

A massive grab for power on the national level. You see, the states are NOT technically responsible for enforcing the Bill of Rights. They have their own Constitutions: state agencies don't have to answer to the Fed.

The Fed HATES this restriction on Federal power, so Congress and the various Presidents have conspired to appoint Supreme Court Judges who uphold the power of the Fed to trump that of the power of the states. Making the states answerable to the Bill of Rights is just a small part of establishing that precedent.

By requiring individual state agencies (such as schools and courts) conform to Federal Standards instead of State Standards, they take away a VAST amount of state policy making power. Which, by default, falls to the Fed.

What does religion have to do with this? NOTHING. Liberals in Congress just want to destroy the jurisdiction of the state, who currently controls most social projects. That way THEY can take the credit for it, instead of leaving it at the local level where it belongs.

All of this trouble just because Congress wants better press..... Learning the truth about the way our government operates sucks ass.

[jmaster306]

But FUNKbrs, what do you call it when republican in congress do things like....

Republicans trying to overturn the "right to die" laws in Oregon.

Opposing Gay Marriage in Massechusetts and California as well as going for a nationwide ban on it as well.

I see what you are saying, but I think you are a bit off. Congress does want more control over the nation, there is no question about that; however, I would have to say that both parties are guilty of this domineering nature.

[Demosthenez]

At 2/1/05 08:27 PM, jmaster306 wrote: I see what you are saying, but I think you are a bit off. Congress does want more control over the nation, there is no question about that; however, I would have to say that both parties are guilty of this domineering nature.

Just what I was going to say. You cant have it one way and not have it the other. And always remember, we are sheelpe.

[red-mage11]

Thank you FUNKbrs, for although you are a moderater it is normally expected for someone to post OMFG LIBERALS SUXXOR LOL!!!!111, not something intelligent like you have just posted. Now on to the content of jo post.I do agree that most bitching about seperation of church and state is just a grab for political power. If only others could figure that out......

[Darth-Fucyall]

wow u have good point

[Relorian]

Seperation of Church and State is just that. If you cant see what the benifits are of keeping the church out of government then i suggest you look into Henery the 8th and his ChurchState. Our founding fathers were NOT all christians and they understood very well how religion can blind people to the truth or can be used to force people to have a certin opnion so they installed in our government a seperation of the church from the state. Now in modern times it seems the Republicans have a hard time following the rules the founding fathers put down so long ago. THey use state money to fund Church activities and accept church money to get people into office. This sadily is all politics have become. No more are the days when changes were made on what a man thought, Now its what your paid to think.

[red-mage11]

At 2/1/05 08:36 PM, Relorian wrote: Our founding fathers were NOT all christians

Yes, they were. Name one other religion our founding fathers were in and tell me who it was. The only reason they established seperation of church and state is because they di not want a theocricy.

[Tombulgius]

It's a pity that some Liberals actually use that separation as a gain for power. I want separation of church and state for one and only one reason: to stop even more biased values from coming into power. Think about it:

Gay marriage is illegal. Why?
Bush is a Christian, as well as much of Congress.

Ladies and Gentlemen, that is one lame-ass excuse, in my opinion. Religion and government are a pretty bad combination.

[jmaster306]

Ok, I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but it's something I've been thinking about. What exactly is the conservative claim to fame so to speak? I mean as a liberal you can see how other people like you have helped bring about the civil rights movement, end slavery, allow women to vote, and even the founding fathers sought out change: the essence of what it means to be liberal. But what can you say about being conservative? "Horay, I'm fighting to maintian the status quo" is about all I can think of. Ok, I know that they do help bring balance to the nation because if everyone was a flaming liberal I don't want to know what the US would be like. But still, what else is there really?

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 08:55 PM, jmaster306 wrote:

Well, technically the conservatives are also trying to conserve liberty, like the right to bear arms, and the right to not get robbed by your local chapter of the crips, or the right to keep the money you earn, instead of having it all sucked up by taxes.

When it really comes down to it, taxes ARE just a fancy way of saying you got robbed by the world's largest street gang, isn't it?

[stafffighter]

A lot of diffrent cultures have burial rituals. It's more a part of the overall existance than pandering to any denomination.

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 08:46 PM, Tombulgius wrote: It's a pity that some Liberals actually use that separation as a gain for power. I want separation of church and state for one and only one reason: to stop even more biased values from coming into power.

Meh, the cons would do it too if it suited their paltform.

:Think about it:

Gay marriage is illegal. Why?
Bush is a Christian, as well as much of Congress.

Gay marriage is state level. The Fed doesn't have jurisdiction over it, which is why gay marriage IS legal in Hawaii and Vermont (last time I checked, anyway). Bush and Congress are JUST the Fed. Furthermore, since a marriage in Hawaii is legal in Alabama, gay marriage is legal in Alabama, just not the ceremony or drafting up the legal documentation.

Ladies and Gentlemen, that is one lame-ass excuse, in my opinion. Religion and government are a pretty bad combination.

I don't know, that "Thou Shalt Not Steal" and "Thou Shalt Not Kill" make pretty good laws. Besides, believe it or not, science doesn't think being gay makes much sense either. Buttsex might feel good, but genetically, you're just wasting your time.

[jmaster306]

At 2/1/05 09:06 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

At 2/1/05 08:55 PM, jmaster306 wrote:

Well, technically the conservatives are also trying to conserve liberty, like the right to bear arms, and the right to not get robbed by your local chapter of the crips, or the right to keep the money you earn, instead of having it all sucked up by taxes.

I suppose so, didn't quite think of it like that. Although if you really despise taxes that much, you should really take another look at the republican party. They may not be directly increasing taxes, but once you look at the national deficit, wholly shit.

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 09:11 PM, stafffighter wrote: A lot of diffrent cultures have burial rituals. It's more a part of the overall existance than pandering to any denomination.

A lot of different cultures have scriptures and prayer, too. Does that mean you should be able to read scripture and pray in public schools?

After all, word prayer doesn't necessarily imply to the Christian God. Hell, you could pray to Satan or the Earth Goddess in schools just as easily.

It's the lack of consistency I'm trying to point out; the issue itself is just an example.

[Demosthenez]

What about Californias Medicinal Marijuana law? Its legal here but I thought its not allowed because of the Fed? Or did Supreme Court rule against it or something?

[stafffighter]

A funeral has only the invited people and staff. It's a private event. Private, as opposed to public.

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 09:16 PM, jmaster306 wrote: I suppose so, didn't quite think of it like that. Although if you really despise taxes that much, you should really take another look at the republican party. They may not be directly increasing taxes, but once you look at the national deficit, wholly shit.

Ah, but the cons are also always cutting social programs. Sounds bad, right? Not so fast, those programs are EXPENSIVE. Every social security benefit cut, every worker denied unemployment saves precious tax money for the common man, which he then can PERSONALLY hand out to Grandma or his friend with the broken leg.

It's OUR money. WE should be the ones getting the credit for using it to help the sick and the poor, NOT the Fed.

[RoboFrog]

you rambling all of this is the least of our problems, we need to get the goddamn neo cons out of the house & senate so we can give people back there rights, besides when a funeral is stat funded it isn't dosen't violate the establishment clause cause every religion is treated fairly and is not givin special rights over another

[Ravens-Grin]

At 2/1/05 09:06 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: When it really comes down to it, taxes ARE just a fancy way of saying you got robbed by the world's largest street gang, isn't it?

It really depends,the world's largest street gang doesn't fund the roads that you drive on, does it? Or what about the largest street gang providing resources for schooling? Another thing the largest street gang doesn't do for the US is that they don't feed the poor, protect citizens rights, provide research for various medical problems, or protect us from something that conservatives have been flinging in the faces of Americans for a long time, terrorism.

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 09:22 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: What about Californias Medicinal Marijuana law? Its legal here but I thought its not allowed because of the Fed? Or did Supreme Court rule against it or something?

Marijuana is actually a scheduled substance, just like any other prescription drug. Heroine and Cocaine CAN are ARE prescribed under other names by the medical profession. Cocaine in it's liquid form is often used in dentistry to stop profuse bleeding, and heroin and it's opiate cousins are STILL the #1 choice of Doctors for treating pain.

The Federal Code on controlled substances are actually much more complicated thant "JUST SAY NO!".

[RoboFrog]

At 2/1/05 09:26 PM, Ravens_Grin wrote:
...does it? Or what about the largest street gang providing resources for schooling? Another thing the largest street gang doesn't do for the US is that they don't feed the poor, protect citizens rights, provide research for various medical problems...

unfortunatly our curent adminstration isn't doing any other those either

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 09:26 PM, RoboFrog wrote: you rambling all of this is the least of our problems, we need to get the goddamn neo cons out of the house & senate so we can give people back there rights, besides when a funeral is stat funded it isn't dosen't violate the establishment clause cause every religion is treated fairly and is not givin special rights over another

Zoarastrianists believe that the body of the deceased should be returned to nature by allowing it to be devoured by vultures. Putting the body in a box and burying it doesn't sound very repectful from that point of view. (yes, I actually know a guy who is a Zoarastrianist. It's an obscure Eastern religion).

Of course, you're just pissed off because you just found out the government was DESIGNED to be corrupt. It can't operate any other way. Liberal and Conservative are just masks to hide behind.

[Ravens-Grin]

At 2/1/05 09:29 PM, RoboFrog wrote: unfortunatly our curent adminstration isn't doing any other those either

Don't cut your eye blind.

WhiteHouse.Gov

[stafffighter]

The country was founded with a christian leaning. Suprise suprise. It doesn't say "in whatever higher power you prescribe to we trust on" the money.

[jmaster306]

At 2/1/05 09:24 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: Ah, but the cons are also always cutting social programs. Sounds bad, right? Not so fast, those programs are EXPENSIVE. Every social security benefit cut, every worker denied unemployment saves precious tax money for the common man, which he then can PERSONALLY hand out to Grandma or his friend with the broken leg.

It's OUR money. WE should be the ones getting the credit for using it to help the sick and the poor, NOT the Fed.

But one look at the deficit shows that they arn't cutting nearly enough to justify not raising/lowering taxes. See if you can correspond the years with the various presidents for the past few decades. I think you'll see what I'm talking about.

You can find a copy of this graph yourself here

[RoboFrog]

At 2/1/05 09:33 PM, Ravens_Grin wrote: Don't cut your eye blind.

WhiteHouse.Gov

just because they have the programs doesn't mean there working in favor of the lower-middle citizens

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 09:26 PM, Ravens_Grin wrote: It really depends,the world's largest street gang doesn't fund the roads that you drive on, does it?

Um, I was calling the US Army the world's largest street gang. However, I still like the metaphor, so I'll defend it anyway.

The world's largest street gang WOULD enforce peace and safety on the roadways, and maintain them if they had too. After all, it's hard to collect money from being who can't go to work, even if that work is just prostitution and drug smuggling.

Or what about the largest street gang providing resources for schooling?

They're pretty good at teaching kids how to sell drugs. That's one more job than public education will teach you how to do.

Another thing the largest street gang doesn't do for the US is that they don't feed the poor, protect citizens rights, provide research for various medical problems, or protect us from something that conservatives have been flinging in the faces of Americans for a long time, terrorism.

Yo, main, Osama Bin Laden betta' watch his ASS, USA Crips would do a drive by on his punk ass....

Seriously, though, just because street gangs get a bad rap doesn't mean they don't do SOME social good. Gangs get retribution for robberies, beat up people who rob old ladies, etc. Of course, unless you're in a gang or live in a neighborhood controlled by gangs, you wouldn't understand that. As a guy who grew up in a place full of angry youths trying to "rank up," I know the truth.

If the government did it's job, there'd be no power vacuum for gangs to fill.

[FUNKbrs]

At 2/1/05 09:35 PM, jmaster306 wrote:

But one look at the deficit shows that they arn't cutting nearly enough to justify not raising/lowering taxes. See if you can correspond the years with the various presidents for the past few decades. I think you'll see what I'm talking about.

You can find a copy of this graph yourself here

Nice graph. The best part was the little dip at the beginning of the Bush Administration, with a sharp increase beginning after 9-11.

It DOES make Reagan look really bad, but hell, that's what you get when you elect an actor instead of a president.

[RoboFrog]

you start out this thread against the libreals now you take there view, do you or do you not support the current admistion (neo conservative) FUNKbrs

[MembrsOfBushWhackers]

At 2/1/05 08:08 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: What the REAL point of all this "separation of church and state" crap is about.

Um, the constitution? There shall be no state religion.

Lets start on some equal, ground, k?

1: THE LIBERALS ARE NOT USING SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE TO STOP STATE FUNERALS.

Think about that. Science CLEARLY states the best use for a corpse is as an organ donor, and the best disposal of a corpse is a cremation. The body itself is actually of no moral consequence, because the person inside it is dead.

Why do we have funerals then? DUH. RELIGION. A funeral is a send off into the afterlife, the last chance to look at the body of a departed soul.

This means that state funded funerals violate separation of church and state, right? And the Ten Commandments in Congress too, right?

Um, no. Funerals are ways to pay your last respects to someone. Plenty of people have funerals no matter what if any religion they have.

WHATS REALLY GOING ON:

A massive grab for power on the national level. You see, the states are NOT technically responsible for enforcing the Bill of Rights. They have their own Constitutions: state agencies don't have to answer to the Fed.

A state can't violate the U.S. constitution. A state can't take away someones freedom of speech, or protest, or right to bear arms, etc. etc.

The Fed HATES this restriction on Federal power, so Congress and the various Presidents have conspired to appoint Supreme Court Judges who uphold the power of the Fed to trump that of the power of the states. Making the states answerable to the Bill of Rights is just a small part of establishing that precedent.

This was all decided over 200 years ago. There is no conspiracy.

By requiring individual state agencies (such as schools and courts) conform to Federal Standards instead of State Standards, they take away a VAST amount of state policy making power. Which, by default, falls to the Fed.

Yea, I think No Child Left Behind is B.S. too.

What does religion have to do with this? NOTHING. Liberals in Congress just want to destroy the jurisdiction of the state, who currently controls most social projects. That way THEY can take the credit for it, instead of leaving it at the local level where it belongs.

Who cares what the liberals want to do? Republicans donminate all 3 chambers.

All of this trouble just because Congress wants better press..... Learning the truth about the way our government operates sucks ass.

True dat.