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I've been reading a lot more post and more people have been saying that the bible and God were just things made up and written just so people wouldn't go around sinning all the time. God doesnt hold you back.....thats why he gave us free will. Free will lets us make decisions for ourselves and if we choose to sin, that doesnt matter how relgious you are or not.

At 12/13/04 10:05 PM, Samuraikyo wrote: I've been reading a lot more post and more people have been saying that the bible and God were just things made up and written just so people wouldn't go around sinning all the time. God doesnt hold you back.....thats why he gave us free will. Free will lets us make decisions for ourselves and if we choose to sin, that doesnt matter how relgious you are or not.

So what are you saying, people are wrong about how religion was used to keep people in line? Do you know how they used to preach in the medieval days? The whole thing revolved around scaring the crap out of people-saying they will go to hell and such.

The Christian religion that we know today has been so twisted and perverted to serve people's own motives its sick.... but also science isn't infallible. All it can do is draw conclusions on observations, but if those observations are wrong or misinterpreted then that can be just as dangerous to blindly follow

At 12/13/04 05:24 PM, Fizzle wrote:

I never said I don't believe them. I said that they use that as an excuse to not believe in God, or any religion for that matter. What I was trying to get accross is that as a Christian, I also try to live my life morally, but at the same time, I believe I'm saved through Christ and that I'm goign to heaven. People who don't believe in a god, or any kind of afterlife may live their life well, but I personally don't believe they are accomplishing anything because according to what I believe, they are going to hell regardless of how good they are. Unless they accept :Christ, all of their good works and decisions are in vain.

That still presents the idea that what happens to you after you're dead is more import than all that you might do for other people wile you're alive

Just because my beliefs differ from yours, doesn't mean I'm some kind of "holy as thou" zealot asshole. I simply just am acting according to what I believe, the same exact way as you do. I accept that you don't agree with me, and I have not once tried to harrass you for it. You, on the other hand, insult me and call me things that I definitely am not, and you still don't even provide enough information to refute my claims. Do I need to start breaking out Bible verses to support my beliefs? I stand firm in what I believe in, and I don't try to make other people believe it if they don't want to. It's up to them to decide.

Well, I'm sorry. I think was getting a little tense there. After so many people who actually were being obnoxious or self-righteous, it's a little hard not to lose my temper. I guess I just wasn't really paying full attention to what I was saying, I apoligise for that. All I really was trying to say was that it seems to me that it's much more important to try to help people with their problems than to try to change their beliefs. Though, what really what bothers me about (some) religious people is when they try to control politics and the education system. I suppose I it got a little out of hand though (on my part alone), and I'm very sorry for it. I hope you can forgive me.

At 12/12/04 09:31 PM, Samuraikyo wrote: I keep reading threads about people who don't belive in God and i think its time to prove/convince that there is a God.

Force your feelings on others! YAY!

First off I was doing some internet browsing and on this site they said that 93% of all scientist can now Scientifically/mathematically prove that God exist. That is a high % if you think about it.

Lemme see the calculations that prove he exist. And what scientists say that. And where you got the info. And some pics of ur mom

Now people keep saying if humans were made first, what about dinosaurs. When you think back all the dinosaurs died from something.....it wasnt a comet because they would have found its crater by now.....it was a disease. A disease created by god to kill all the dinosaurs.

First: making up dino killing theory: going off the deep end
2nd: saying god hates Dino: just plain sick
:Thats were humans come in. Humans were alive when there was dinosaurs....but no one knows exactly how long the dinosaurs roamed the earth. I think they were made and killed within 100 years so humans wouldnt become extinct.
WTF? ok i dont wanna know where you get your numgers

The disease that killed the dinosaurs had no effect on the humans and humans eventually became what they are today.

Everyone keeps arguing whether or not they should study evolution. I really dont think they should because i think that evolution doesnt exist. We have never seen it happen either.

We have. I dont wanna explain now though. Just look up "Survival of the fittest" and dont go to a religois site.

They said humans have already evolved because they said cavemen had long teeth and long hair and stuff like that. Well mabey they had big teeth and big nails because they couldnt go to the dentist to get their teeth fixed and they never cut there nails, or hair. So eventually when we became smarter we were able to solve the problem.

Hahahah... not funny...

Everyone thinks there is Aliens. I don't believe that aliens exist. Now a lot of people wont agree with me because there say "The universe is so big and your telling me with all those planets that there is not other life forms". What I think is God made the universe so big so we can explore everything and inhabit planets and other galaxies. God made the universe so big so that we would never get bored with our lives and will always find something new. If men new everything life would be pointless, so therefore we always need something to learn.

Its all about us huh? just an example of the conceit of the human species...

Here is something no one can explain....Expressions. God got real creative when he made expressions. Can you explain it....what is happiness.....what is sadness, what is anger???

Chemical reactions baby.

Don't tell me its something that your body reacts to and it has nothing to do with god. Because can you explain love???

See lust

Why do we love?....What makes us love? God created this so we can have sensations in our lives so we wont get bored with each other. Without these expressions, we wouldn't love or laugh with each other or anything.

... think about people that have had after death experiences, and then came back to life.....94% of them all say the same thing.....they see a long tunnel of light.

Ah, tunnle vision. Go look that up too.

. ..I'm not forcing you, i'm just letting you know some good info.

Thats false...
I believe there is a god, but i just like pointing out flaws in arguments.

At 12/15/04 02:02 AM, Dranard wrote:

At 12/13/04 05:24 PM, Fizzle wrote:

I never said I don't believe them. I said that they use that as an excuse to not believe in God, or any religion for that matter. What I was trying to get accross is that as a Christian, I also try to live my life morally, but at the same time, I believe I'm saved through Christ and that I'm goign to heaven. People who don't believe in a god, or any kind of afterlife may live their life well, but I personally don't believe they are accomplishing anything because according to what I believe, they are going to hell regardless of how good they are. Unless they accept :Christ, all of their good works and decisions are in vain.

That still presents the idea that what happens to you after you're dead is more import than all that you might do for other people wile you're alive

Just because my beliefs differ from yours, doesn't mean I'm some kind of "holy as thou" zealot asshole. (too much to quote)

Well, I'm sorry. I think was getting a little tense there. (too much to quote)

On further reflection, I suppose I was getting a little (may be an understatement) arrogant, and reckless. Regardless of my opinions, I shouldn't have thrown around insults and jumped such rash conclutions about your comments; again I'm sorry for my earlier comments.

Isn't proving God 100% exists go against the whole faith thing. I know for sure God would make sure that there is no possible way for thier to be 100% proof.

At 12/15/04 05:22 AM, Monkey_Lazer wrote: Isn't proving God 100% exists go against the whole faith thing. I know for sure God would make sure that there is no possible way for thier to be 100% proof.

Hmmm... I remember something like "Thy shall not question me or my ways... along those lines..

The only way I would be convinved that God actually exists (or existed) is if he came down to me and said "Hello there friend, I do exist and for your blaspheming you are condemned to the fiery pits of Hell for the rest of eternity"

Vengefull bastard.

At 12/13/04 08:36 PM, CrazyLegs07 wrote: You guys are retards
G-d

Y'know, it's not blasphemous to say "God" with an O. He isn't called "Tha big Gee-Dee" or anything.

At 12/15/04 05:51 AM, BananaBread_Muffin wrote:

Y'know, it's not blasphemous to say "God" with an O

Say what..?

So.. what made god?

At 12/13/04 08:36 PM, CrazyLegs07 wrote: You guys are retards

In the begining, G-d created animals, these are the dinosaurs
(Bible)
G-d created space to give us something to shoot for, but Earth is the only habitable place
(Opinion)

wow! look at this- a christian calling people with different views on religion retards.

why dont you go re-elect bush you fucking stupid shit face. while you're at it, go bomb some countries, eat a big mac, and go to church.

At 12/13/04 05:24 PM, Fizzle wrote:

At 12/13/04 04:41 PM, Dranard wrote: Just keep telling yourself that...

What do you even mean by that? All I did was tell you that I believe that unless you accept Christ as your savior, you are going to hell. It says so in the Bible, and I believe the Bible is the word of God. Your reply didn't prove anything, and it's just rude. Why can't my beliefs differ from yours?

Ok... granted, what I said there was rude and stupid.

There have probably been many religions that didn't push people to spread them, and a religion like Chrisianity has only lasted as long as it has because it tells people to spread it. Of course, that isn't a hard fast rule; apparently eastern religions have found some way around that.

Also, like I said before, anyone who tries to FORCE their religion on you is a moron, because it will not work. This is why it is better to just tell people what you believe, and let them decide for themself. How is that bad? I don't understand.

What makes you think that they don't? Being religios in itself doesn't actually make someone a good person.

I never said I don't believe them. I said that they use that as an excuse to not believe in God, or any religion for that matter.

An excuse? What's wrong with not believing in god in the first place? I can see that you beleive that that beleif is a requirement, but saying you're a good person is not just an excuse for not believing in God.

:What I was trying to get accross is that as a Christian, I also try to live my life morally, but at the same time, I believe I'm saved through Christ and that I'm goign to heaven. People who don't believe in a god, or any kind of afterlife may live their life well, but I personally don't believe they are accomplishing anything because according to what I believe, they are going to hell regardless of how good they are. Unless they accept Christ, all of their good works and decisions are in vain.

You really don't get it. Why does that even seem to make sense to people? 'saved through Christ' Just how much of your time is spent bad-mouthing other cultures and religions anyway?

Saying someone is saved through Christ is a way of badmouthing them? What are you talking about? And since when am I bashing other cultures and religions? If by saying I believe my religion is the only right religion is an insult, then I appologize. Yet, how many of those people who believe in something else think I'm wrong? Probably all of them, but you don't see me complaining. I don't care if they don't agree with me or think something. All I care about is that they hear what I have to say, and that maybe my words will make them think. I never have, and I certainly never intended to badmouth anyone by saying that they can be saved through Jesus Christ.

Well, I'm sorry for jumping to conclutions about your comments.

In other words: if you don't try to push other people around you're going to Hell- well that's a good message, isn't it?

Seriously dude, I don't think you are reading ANYTHING I've been saying. I specifically said that it is WRONG to try to force people to believe in God, or as you put it, "push them around." I did, however, say that it is important for Christians to spread God's word, and let other people decide for themselves what to believe in. I don't get how saying "tell people about God" translates to "CONVERT OR DIE." It's not even close, and I hope you understand that.

...Perhaps I just glossed over that after so many cases of people hating those who don't believe the same thing as them. Sorry about that.

And you can't see why that idea is arrogant and self-rightious? What good is there for other people in trying to controll their beliefs?

Again with this control and oppression crap.

Well... that wasn't what I was really refering to, and I suppose I overstated my opinion. My comment more stems from this: the whole idea of souls and all that is based on it seems somewhat (I suppose not as much as I said before) arrogant, sense it is mostly based on the idea that humans are better than animals because we are human. That, of course was a more civilized way of putting it, and I was getting a little out of hand with my earlier comment.

:I never once said that Christians should force people to believe anything. I don't want to force people to believe anything. What I do want is to see people learning about God through the Bible, and by what little I do to preach his word. In no way is that self righteous or arrogant, because I am not trying to better myself through saying what I believe in, I am trying to help others. I believe in God because I see him do good things in my life, and I want other people to know that he is real, and that they can be saved by accepting Jesus Christ. Is that selfish, or controlling? No, and I wish you would comprehend that.

Again when I said 'arrogant' I was somewhat overstating my point, and wasn't thinking about what I was saying. I was really refering to valuing human life and our well-being over the rest of the world; that it's just there for us to use. And as well, I suppose I jumpted to conclusions about your opinion on that.

Just because my beliefs differ from yours, doesn't mean I'm some kind of "holy as thou" zealot asshole.

Too many of them in the world and with too much power... which my comments somewhat (may be an understatement) hypocritical.

:I simply just am acting according to what I believe, the same exact way as you do. I accept that you don't agree with me, and I have not once tried to harrass you for it. You, on the other hand, insult me and call me things that I definitely am not, and you still don't even provide enough information to refute my claims. Do I need to start breaking out Bible verses to support my beliefs? I stand firm in what I believe in, and I don't try to make other people believe it if they don't want to. It's up to them to decide.

I'm beggining to wonder if I was losing my mind at the time I made those comments or something...

the problem I see here is that everyone thinks that they are right. Maybe everyone needs to have tolerance and respect for what others believe in. Its the major freakin problem of this POS world we live in today. Everyone thinks theyre right, and wants to force their views on everyone else.

Keep an open mind and stop being so damn close minded. Whats so bad about believing in something as long as it is something important to you? Who gives a shit what you think. Now its a different story if someone asks you what you think, and they want to know more about your beliefs.

As for who created god question. Its a great question to ask in philosophy :) Fun shit to talk about and argue.

exactly it's philosophy, the definition of philoshpy is a bunch of people arguing over something that can't be proven or disproven.

At 12/13/04 07:28 PM, DarkAzazel wrote: Bah god and heaven are just stories that were told to make things more comforting. people didn't have science in the wayback so when kids asked where life came from, thier elders just said god made it all. and he is and all seeing, all knowing being, so then would behave and stop being little shits.
Heaven is just to comfort the sick and dying. Telling them their going to a happy place to make them stop freaking out and bitching about dying. seen as how not many people arn't to comfortable to try and realize that once they die, every thing they know and have seen will be gone. and that their conscience will nolonger exist.(I know that it's not easy to tking about but i deal..)
there that's my crappy/ somewhat working view of this topic.

yes that's what I'm saying all the time, still those religious people won't believe me.
Even my Religious Education teacher says so, 80% of the bible's stories were made up. They were just stories that never happend but were made for a moral. jesus never walked on water, Moses never splid the sea in two. And god never excisted.

read in the bible dude
*god created the earth
*he then added us
* its meteor and they have found the crater that killed off the dinosaurs
Dude you dunno what heaven is infact its where u want it to be its in the back of your head stored. and when you die that part of your head is activated sure it rots but its still there sumhow...read it once
ok before writing a whole topic about god read the bible
and remember to fix ur spelling mistakes dude coz... ur trying to prove hundreds if possibly thousands of scientists wrong :)

At 12/15/04 04:07 PM, JeNNiF00F00 wrote: Its the major freakin problem of this POS world we live in today. Everyone thinks theyre right, and wants to force their views on everyone else.

It's nothing new... If that was nolonger the case, it would be the greatest paradigm shift.

At 12/15/04 03:46 PM, Dranard wrote: I'm beggining to wonder if I was losing my mind at the time I made those comments or something...

Nah, don't worry about it man. I was getting rude towards the end there also, so no one is to blame. It was a good argument while it lasted, thanks :)

At 12/15/04 04:28 PM, MetalChicken wrote:

Even my Religious Education teacher says so, 80% of the bible's stories were made up.

80% my ass. A lot of the bible is wars and events.

They were just stories that never happend but were made for a moral.

Parables were made for moral.

jesus never walked on water, Moses never splid the sea in two. And god never excisted.

But if god did exist (which is impossible to prove as well as evolution) then why is it not possible for jesus to walk on water or moses to split the sea?

At 12/12/04 09:31 PM, Samuraikyo wrote: Everyone keeps arguing whether or not they should study evolution. I really dont think they should because i think that evolution doesnt exist. We have never seen it happen either. They said humans have already evolved because they said cavemen had long teeth and long hair and stuff like that. Well mabey they had big teeth and big nails because they couldnt go to the dentist to get their teeth fixed and they never cut there nails, or hair. So eventually when we became smarter we were able to solve the problem.

I couldn't be bothered to read through 9 pages to check if anyone else had picked up on this, but you say that evolution doesn't exist. Then you say "when we became smarter we were able to solve the problem".

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but becoming smarter is a part of evolution.

What a contradiction!

At 12/15/04 08:14 PM, Soul_Chamber wrote:

(which is impossible to prove as well as evolution)

Do you actually know what the theory of evolution is? It's not about the evolution of anything in particular; it's about how species in general develope. The details may have some flaws, but the overall theory can has been observed on the microscopic level.

At 12/16/04 12:40 AM, Dranard wrote:

At 12/15/04 08:14 PM, Soul_Chamber wrote:

(which is impossible to prove as well as evolution)

Do you actually know what the theory of evolution is? It's not about the evolution of anything in particular; it's about how species in general develope. The details may have some flaws, but the overall theory can has been observed on the microscopic level.

Plus, if you had enough time, it could be observed on the grand scale.

Even if god himself come up to me to prove his/hers/its existance. I wouldn't care, I wouldn't go to church or even pick up a bible to look through it to see what hell will be like for me. I just don't care and for people who really really believe in god they will continue until some life changing thing happens that makes them realize either there is no god or god doesn't give a shit about us. I'm sick of bible thumping assholes trying to push their beliefs on me. goddamn it all.

Holy crap. I'm a god-fearing person, but this wasteoid doesn't have a clue what's going on. Nothing you say in your pathetic rant makes any real sense. Long teeth cuz they couldn't cut it? No aliens cuz God wants us to have fun? Its people like you that make us look bad, you brainless dolt.

Samuraikyo, please for the love of every one... don't act smart... your not good at it

At 12/12/04 09:31 PM, Samuraikyo wrote:

:im a know it all

shut up you douche bag, no one cares about your gay ass opinions

Well, firsthand, asking that stupic question about the Glass is totally irrelevant. The question itself is a reflection on Pessimism and Optimism, and is a metaphor.

God exists to humans no more than String Theory. But you are right, it is a matter of persepctive. Whether or not you choose a pious life over a more free willed one is up to you, but the ending is ultimately in his hands.

I like your idea on the dinosaur disease thing. But you have nothing, as stated previously, to back that up. There is no trace of toxins, no cancers, no nothing. Maybe they all became fertile due to a planetwide illness, but how one could come to such a conclusion is beyond me, unless scientists found enough bone marrow to analyze and compare.

If I may say one of many personal opinions, it could have been fate that devastated the dinosaurs, who died LONG before the Creation.

Drawing in an Interventionists theory (My own), perhaps God, who in this theory is from another world (Possible a world called Heaven), Terraformed the Earth to make it what it is. Maybe it took that long, from the extinction to the creation, to reform the earth for humans to live.

In any case, the bible does not say what happened before the Creation. What we do know is that life existed before the Creation ever took place. Birds, Animals, even Humans.

A theory I have had rooted away for the longest time is that, God (Still the Interventionist alien) saw this world, saw the Earth, the superior being, and redesigned it in his own image. Not necessarily himself physically, but in his own image that he foresaw as a way to speed up the growth of humanity. This is where I believe the story is mixed up, but I could be wrong.

On a different note, Psychology has many different aspects and many different idea's on what is right. I choose to stick with Sigmund Freud's ideas, because they seem so clear cut as opposed to the other famous Psychologists.

Anger, Sadness, Love...These are, in themselves, chemical reactions within your brain, but what is your brain? Is it just some sort of chemisty experiment? No, it is a 3 layered system (Primarily the Neo-Cortex), driven by your conscious mind and your subconscious mind.

You live in a Virtual Reality, because what you perceive as reality is what your brain interprets as real, which makes anything around you as real as a dream.

Not to delve too deep into Matrix philosophy, but dare you slander me for it, shame on you. The idea is widespread, not just from the minds of Sci-Fi nerds.

And finally, we end with the Afterlife. I believe that those who live the pious life can return to Heaven. But then we have Purgatory and Hell to deal with. Purgatory is where you burn all of your sins, if you are deemed worthy to enter Heaven. Hell is where those who do not follow God's faith and those who sin against God's will remain.

God is a forgiving god. He gave you free will to do as you please, and you are expected to use it wisely.

PS: Sorry for bumping (IF at all), but I had to fit this in here. Hope you enjoy reading it!

Im not convinced.. Try harder.