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At 12/17/04 11:58 PM, Shazoo wrote: maybe it is the best of all worlds even with the facists...maybe we're alone....maybe we're 1 of a trillion different species of humans....as quoted by a great great man...(mulder) the truth is out there...

Speaking of fallacies :/ appealing to Fox Mulder from the X-files as an authoratative figure in this field, even though in "real" life (outside of the show) he doesn't possess any sort of degree or high level of education on this topic, is a fallacy of appeal to authority. I would understand if you tried to bring someone with a doctorate in philosophy into this but... c'mon >:/ celebrities aren't necessarily the epitome of a genious, as you seem to percieve.

At 12/17/04 10:09 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

lolol

:p
CHRISTIANS ARE CRAZY

At 12/19/04 12:01 PM, -poxpower- wrote: CHRISTIANS ARE CRAZY

Anything is crazy if you take it a step or two too far. Like patriotism.

Push for 100 replies anyone?

At 12/12/04 04:04 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote: That's the same question I ask myself. And I find that to be the only possible answer: that perhaps God does good things and allows bad things to happen to have a sort of "balance" that only he/she/it can describe.

I don't think its so much a blance, more that it would be stupid to interfere on negative actions. Its like giving a kid fire and saying 'do what you want. When the kids sets fire to a cat you havee no right to tell it off because of 2 reasons-
1) you gave the kid fire
2) you told the kid they could do what they want
Surely people would call any god a hypocrite who gave us free will, and then made sure we couldn't do certain things...

I'm sorry, this argument was created based on the God of the christian religion, or Jehova. Just in case anyone was confused about that, I'm sorry to anyone of a different religion if this confused you.

Thats fine, its just so I know how to counter-argue mainly. But I believe that my aproach to good and evil in regards to a god can be aplied to many religious ideas.
Score for religious Zealots like me!

At 12/26/04 09:21 AM, specimen56 wrote: I don't think its so much a blance, more that it would be stupid to interfere on negative actions. Its like giving a kid fire and saying 'do what you want. When the kids sets fire to a cat you havee no right to tell it off because of 2 reasons-

Yay 100 replies... anyway. One could also argue that God gave us free will as a sort of experiment in order to analyze and see what kind of decisions we would make. People are going to argue that we don't have free will (like poxpower says) but at least we're still at a freedom to choose what we want.

Surely people would call any god a hypocrite who gave us free will, and then made sure we couldn't do certain things...

Perhaps he did it for his own personal reasons like... so we could learn from our mistakes. Hence why we don't use the electric chair anymore.

Score for religious Zealots like me!

Alright! *hi five, trip-fall* X(

I can't pretned to understand this level of thinking from such an intellegent group of people [meaning philosphers].

Speaking strictly from a philisophical point of view, it's like watching two kids at a park. One kid falls down and curses you for not being there to catch him. What kind of logic is that other than that of an embarassed and hurt child? And what would even be the purpose of growth and life if there were no mistakes to learn from? Would the arts and science for that matter even be the same thing?

There will never be any other element that philosophers point to more quickly for the world's problems then the God they proclaim doesn't exist.

At 12/27/04 01:01 AM, darkmage8 wrote: There will never be any other element that philosophers point to more quickly for the world's problems then the God they proclaim doesn't exist.

Perhaps philosophers would point to God, however, I would point to stupidity.

At 12/27/04 01:03 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote:

At 12/27/04 01:01 AM, darkmage8 wrote: There will never be any other element that philosophers point to more quickly for the world's problems then the God they proclaim doesn't exist.

Perhaps philosophers would point to God, however, I would point to stupidity.

That's a nice way to sum it up. I wish it could be left at that. But there are too many people that are will to explain how stupidity = following religion = different beliefs = conflict = war= ...well you get the picture.

I like your way better. XD

According to the bible, god gave humans free will. But there was a catch: he didn't give them the knowledge on good and evil. He gave that to the apples. So in truth, god really wanted there to be evil in the world. So now do you really believe in an all-powerful, all-merciful god?

At 12/27/04 10:48 PM, DonMegiddo wrote: According to the bible, god gave humans free will. But there was a catch: he didn't give them the knowledge on good and evil. He gave that to the apples. So in truth, god really wanted there to be evil in the world. So now do you really believe in an all-powerful, all-merciful god?

He gave us a choice between good and evil. We chose evil, and He gave us a way back. I don't see any power limitations or mercy limitations inherent in that.

Try harder. That rebuttal only took three synapses.

At 12/26/04 11:51 PM, EnragedSephiroth wrote: Yay 100 replies... anyway. One could also argue that God gave us free will as a sort of experiment in order to analyze and see what kind of decisions we would make.

Very true, but by that same thinking, if God were testing us by our actions, maybe he allows negative actions to fully continue to test those whom the actions are being taken upon...

People are going to argue that we don't have free will (like poxpower says) but at least we're still at a freedom to choose what we want.

I believe that we have free will to choose what we do. I do believe that we have a fate, and that we will never reach a higher plane of existence untill we fulfil out 'destiny', but we can fully choose not to do so. So long as you are conscious and control over your body, you have a choice in your actions.

Perhaps he did it for his own personal reasons like... so we could learn from our mistakes. Hence why we don't use the electric chair anymore.

True. Alas, I fear that none of us will truely know until our heart stops beating. Till then, I'm gonna go on with my own feelings on the matter.

At 12/28/04 05:33 AM, specimen56 wrote: I believe that we have free will to choose what we do. I do believe that we have a fate, and that we will never reach a higher plane of existence untill we fulfil out 'destiny', but we can fully choose not to do so. .

Hmm, that was very well stated. Good post.

At 12/27/04 10:53 PM, Banta_Claus wrote:

He gave us a choice between good and evil. We chose evil, and He gave us a way back. I don't see any power limitations or mercy limitations inherent in that.

Yes, but Adam and Eve did not KNOW the difference between good and evil.

At 12/28/04 11:37 AM, DonMegiddo wrote: Yes, but Adam and Eve did not KNOW the difference between good and evil.

The first step towards driving a car is learning that you don't have to walk everywhere. Therefore, the first step to being evil is learning that you don't have to be good all the time. Why would you wish to learn about evil unless you wanted to BE evil?

At 12/28/04 09:35 PM, Banta_Claus wrote:

The first step towards driving a car is learning that you don't have to walk everywhere. Therefore, the first step to being evil is learning that you don't have to be good all the time. Why would you wish to learn about evil unless you wanted to BE evil?

Circular logic. I see it all the time.

At 12/11/04 08:32 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote: "If this world is not the best of all possible worlds, then there is no God who created this world, for if there were a God then he would be all-good and all-powerful, and anything created by an all-good, all-powreful God would be as good as it could possibly be. But it is obvious that this world is not the best of all possible worlds, because it contains people like Adolph Hitler and Stalin . Therefore, it follows that there is no God who created this world."

DONT FORGET ABOUT BUSH!

god didnt created this world, thats obious, thats why its not perfect. if not, we wouldnt have dinosaur remainings

At 12/27/04 01:09 AM, darkmage8 wrote:

At 12/27/04 01:03 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote: Perhaps philosophers would point to God, however, I would point to stupidity.

That's a nice way to sum it up. I wish it could be left at that. But there are too many people that are will to explain how stupidity = following religion = different beliefs = conflict = war= ...well you get the picture.

I like your way better. XD

Well thanks. It's easy to say following religion is stupid, but it's near impossible to prove it, however, it is very possible to prove how following a religion (like say the Christian religion) would be wise, if you're good to your fellow man, respect your parents, don't kill, don't lie, don't steal, etc...

If someone said that following a religion is stupid and that it leads to conflic and different beliefs that is only because the interpreters of the religion are stupid and misinterpret the word of that religion. The christian doctrine does not encourage violence, ever, it actually encourages you to turn the other cheek instead of getting revenge. Furthermore it doesn't encourage anyone to force their beliefs on someone else, instead it encourages you to try and guide them if they wish to join, but never force them because it would have been wiser to just leave them alone in the first place. So you see? All of those conflicts over beliefs, they stem from inhert stupidity and misinterpretation of the word.

Hm :\ great now I sound all "holier than thou"-ish.

At 12/30/04 05:41 PM, Soul_Crash wrote: DONT FORGET ABOUT BUSH!

god didnt created this world, thats obious, thats why its not perfect. if not, we wouldnt have dinosaur remainings

Perfect example... of stupidity. -.- Forgive my rudeness but this argument just... it's not even an argument :\ well it is, but it's not valid, the premises don't support the conclusion in the least.

At 12/30/04 03:58 PM, DonMegiddo wrote: Circular logic. I see it all the time.

You're just pissed off that you bothered to learn the logical fallacies and only later learned that 95% of the time logical fallacies are actually TRUE. Well, excluding the various fallacious appeals, but they're all inductive anyway.

At 12/11/04 08:32 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote:

"If this world is not the best of all possible worlds, then there is no God who created this world, for if there were a God then he would be all-good and all-powerful, and anything created by an all-good, all-powreful God would be as good as it could possibly be. But it is obvious that this world is not the best of all possible worlds, because it contains people like Adolph Hitler and Stalin. Therefore, it follows that there is no God who created this world."

How come people think that just casue God is perfect he would create a perfect place. Maybe God didn't us to live in a perfect place. If we were perfect, and lived in a perfect place we would be Gods and we wouldn't worship God. So i think that God made the earth and people not perfect so we can worship someone better than oursefls.

At 12/30/04 08:34 PM, newbman wrote: How come people think that just casue God is perfect he would create a perfect place. Maybe God didn't us to live in a perfect place. If we were perfect, and lived in a perfect place we would be Gods and we wouldn't worship God. So i think that God made the earth and people not perfect so we can worship someone better than oursefls.

At first your argument sounded nice and I thought to myself "Wow this noobie newbman isn't so noobie, and despite his lack of wordiness and proper grammar he's doing ok" until I got to the last sentence... the whole conclusion was just weird, although you can't rule out that could be a possibility but it's not likely if you pay attention to the bible. Some may argue though that the bible decieves us just so we can worship him but w/e, only "he" knows the truth so far.

At 12/30/04 09:44 PM, EnragedSephiroth wrote:
At first your argument sounded nice and I thought to myself "Wow this noobie newbman isn't so noobie, and despite his lack of wordiness and proper grammar he's doing ok"

hey dude thanks for thinking i'm not a loser like most of the other guys on newgrounds. Peace out!

ok, based on what i`ve read, i gotta ask you something...
Why doesn`t God, with just a flick of its hand, just vanquish evil?
I mean he is after all God, the creator of things and what not.

At 12/31/04 02:10 AM, deathmonger666 wrote: ok, based on what i`ve read, i gotta ask you something...
Why doesn`t God, with just a flick of its hand, just vanquish evil?
I mean he is after all God, the creator of things and what not.

Hm, you can tell who's done research on Christianity and who has not. God is supposed to do that (flick his hand and vanquish evil) after the Armageddon in the book of the Apocalypse in order to end all things and start life anew in Eden. Now as to why he doesn't just do it now, according to the scriptures, certain prophecies are supposed to come true, like a global monetary system, a global government, and an antichrist leader (some say it might be a future pope, who knows). But anyway, if you disregard the bible and the christian doctrine, it's really difficult to answer that, then again, if you disregard the bible, you also disregard God in a sense.

I thank you for clearing that out with me cause I`ve always wondered why.

At 12/11/04 08:32 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote:

God just got PWND

At 12/28/04 09:35 PM, Banta_Claus wrote: Why would you wish to learn about evil unless you wanted to BE evil?

if you don't know what evil is, why wouldn't you want to learn what is it?
AH-HA! They didn't know what evil was, and god did NOTHING to keep them from it! They did not CHOOSE to be evil, simply because they didn't know what evil was! ( according to the bible and that line of reasoning).
So they were only curious, and not evil :o They choose to disobey God, but God knew they would do it ( btw if he knows everything, then he can't really give us free will, no, can he? he knows we'll choose to love him or hate him in advance) and did nothing to keep they from evil :o

he just sat there :o He didn't care at all that they would be doomed :o
And he sure didn't care much for all the other people afterwards who would be doomed!

and if you talk about the christian God, you admit that there IS a placee where we would live happier than on earth, and that place is he Garden of Eden. 2 people lived there, happy, for a long time, and its GOd's fault that they picked the apple, for the simple reason that HE chose to place it there!
Hence, we now live in a place SHITTIER than we could, which is BAD, and god lets it happen, which proves that he wants BAD to happen to us! We would still have free will in Eden now would we not?
Hence, we live in a shitty place and GOd likes it that way, because he's not all-good.

The thought of Evil, i'd like to point out, Is all a point of veiw. Hitler didn't think that he, himself was evil, he though that he was doing what's right for the world. Others saw the devistation he left in his tracks and though him to be Evil. To truth noone is evil unless they agnolage it themselfs. I find that as much as Evil is a point of view, so is Good. And so inconclution everything is a poiont of veiw, and points vary based on who has them. So everyone is different, so everyone will have different points of view. (You following me?) And finally Good and Evil are only figments of our imagination based on actions of others. Got it?

At 12/31/04 10:33 AM, newbman wrote: The thought of Evil, i'd like to point out, Is all a point of veiw. And finally Good and Evil are only figments of our imagination based on actions of others. Got it?

Yeah, for the most part, perspective is everything. But then of course you run into the insanity paradox, which gives you super powers like me.

*uses evil mind powers to cause an earthquake in the middle of the ocean IN THE PAST!!!!*