The United States is a democracy

[Jlop985]

The US is a democracy. Sovereignty in the US lies with the people. Ask yourself this question, "Where does the government get its justification for power?" If you answer is the people, then moer than likely, the country about whom that question is asked is a democracy.

The US is also a republic as well. The two are not mutually exclusive. No one person or group is given too much power in government. Power is distributed amongst the three branches of government, and the officials are largely elected.

The US is both a democracy and a republic because these two terms describe different things. Republic is used to describe a structure of government, and democracy is used to denote where governmental power comes from.

So please, don't go around saying that the US is not a democracy, because it is. It wasn't formed a democracy, but it is one now.

[Slizor]

Democracy means rule of the people (literally "people rule" when translated from Greek.) The people does not mean the majority, it means all the people (a system where the majority rule is a majoritarian system.) The US, due to it's majoritarian electoral structures (where the person with the MAJORITY of the vote wins) is not a democracy, but is majoritarian.

That is a point about the structure of the electoral system - however there are many more facts which throw doubt upon your claim that the US is a democracy.

Firstly, you only get to vote for your representatives/President/Senators every two or so years (i.e. there is an election for one of them in the space of two years.) There is also the fact that there remain to be only two parties with broadly similar viewpoints that will ever get elected. I fail to see how a person views can be represented by voting for one of two people on one day every two years.

I won't and don't need to go into anymore detail as I'm just starting an essay due last friday.

[Jlop985]

At 12/1/04 07:46 AM, Slizor wrote: Democracy means rule of the people (literally "people rule" when translated from Greek.) The people does not mean the majority, it means all the people (a system where the majority rule is a majoritarian system.) The US, due to it's majoritarian electoral structures (where the person with the MAJORITY of the vote wins) is not a democracy, but is majoritarian.

And in the Athenian democracy, which some think was the only example of democracy ever, decisions were come to by a majority of the people.

Firstly, you only get to vote for your representatives/President/Senators every two or so years (i.e. there is an election for one of them in the space of two years.) There is also the fact that there remain to be only two parties with broadly similar viewpoints that will ever get elected. I fail to see how a person views can be represented by voting for one of two people on one day every two years.

That is why the US is also a republic. The will of the people is not captured perfectly in American democracy. However, we still consider ourselves capitalist even though there are extensive regulations on the market.

Saying that the US is a republic and not a democracy is like saying "that building is not a house, because it has brick walls."

[Slizor]

And in the Athenian democracy, which some think was the only example of democracy ever

Unlikely, very few count Athens limited franchise and lack of participation as a democracy.

That is why the US is also a republic. The will of the people is not captured perfectly in American democracy. However, we still consider ourselves capitalist even though there are extensive regulations on the market.

While you can still be capitalist and have regulations on the market you can not be truely democratic and be a republic. That is not my sole reason, but it is one of them. You are only looking at one tree in a forest.

Saying that the US is a republic and not a democracy is like saying "that building is not a house, because it has brick walls."

I'm saying it's not a democracy because of many many problems. The structure of a republic is only one of them.

[Ravens-Grin]

Ahh democracy, oppression by the majority.

[Willsphermalothohnyu]

At 12/1/04 01:07 AM, Jlop985 wrote: The US is a democracy. Sovereignty in the US lies with the people. Ask yourself this question, "Where does the government get its justification for power?" If you answer is the people, then moer than likely, the country about whom that question is asked is a democracy.

The US is also a republic as well. The two are not mutually exclusive. No one person or group is given too much power in government. Power is distributed amongst the three branches of government, and the officials are largely elected.

The US is both a democracy and a republic because these two terms describe different things. Republic is used to describe a structure of government, and democracy is used to denote where governmental power comes from.

So please, don't go around saying that the US is not a democracy, because it is. It wasn't formed a democracy, but it is one now.

USA is a democracy alright, its just not democratic, im from Europe and believe me; your democracy is VERY primitive.
It wasnt always like this though, but it seems the people dont elect presidents anymore. 2000 was a scam and so was 2004 (I have several arguments I can post on demand if u want).
And besides only 50% votes what kind of democracy is that?

BtW plz go to this site http://superluder.dk/downloads-video.php and download the movie; Bush gir finger - THATS what G.W. Bush makes of his voters! (Danish site sry , DL by clicking movie name)

[Hierophant]

Liar. We're a republic.

Democracy - Government ruled by the people.
Republic - Government in which representative represent the people.

The fact that we have the electoral college system changes it.

[MuShrOomBastard]

No, America is not a Democracy.

"The distribution of wealth and income in the United States has changed little in the direction of greater equality since the turn of the last century, and hardly at all since World War II. Corporate wealth and its distribution become the issue, and it is the control of the corporations, not of personal capital, that carries implications for employment, growth, income distribution, and the structure of the economy. When corporate power cares more for their shareholders than the ones that the labor that produces the profit, something has gone terribly wrong. Ninety percent of the wealth is in the hands of about ten percent of the people. Government at every level is controlled by money interests, not public interests. That makes America an oligarchy and not even close to a true democracy."

[Doran]

Not to sound ignorant or anything, but I've always been told that the United States is [strives to be] a 'democratic republic'. This would mean that the United states is a republic and is not a democracy, though it tries to be as democratic as possible within a republican system (hence democratic as an adjective describing the noun republic). Whether or not it is truly democractic is immaterial because, using that statement, it is a republic that is only supposed to be like a democracy, but does not have to be.

[HoodedLynx]

At 12/1/04 03:36 PM, Ravens_Grin wrote: Ahh democracy, oppression by the majority.

Oppression by morons and religious right groups you mean? *cough* US citizens *cough* GWB *cough*

[RedSkunk]

At 12/1/04 05:42 PM, Master_Unlucky wrote: The fact that we have the electoral college system changes it.

The electoral college doesn't change a single thing. We still allow all adults in good standing with the law, the right to vote. We're a representative democracy.

[subpar]

At 12/1/04 07:46 AM, Slizor wrote: Democracy means rule of the people (literally "people rule" when translated from Greek.) The people does not mean the majority, it means all the people (a system where the majority rule is a majoritarian system.) The US, due to it's majoritarian electoral structures (where the person with the MAJORITY of the vote wins) is not a democracy, but is majoritarian.

The modern definition of democracy is majoritarian. According to that definition, if one person in a democracy disagrees with a law, then it becomes majoritarian because only the majority, not everyone, supports the laws (even if the minority is one). The only way your form of real democracy could be possible is if every person ruled over him/her self. In that case, there is no real government, and there is anarchy.

Basing your definition of "democracy" on a direct Greek translation is ridiculous. "Alto" translates to "tall" in spanish, but that doesn't stop Mexicans from putting it on their stop signs.

[Memorize]

I would say we're a democracy, but not a true democracy.
Republic: Yes
Democracy: no, not really a true democracy anyway.
Our elecorial system is what says we really arent a true democracy.

[Hedonist-Hammurabi]

At 12/1/04 03:36 PM, Ravens_Grin wrote: Ahh democracy, oppression by the majority.

That what political system do you suggest, eh? I mean if democracy sucks, what else is left?

[Hedonist-Hammurabi]

At 12/1/04 05:46 PM, MuShrOomBastard wrote: "The distribution of wealth and income in the United States has changed little in the direction of greater equality since the turn of the last century, and hardly at all since World War II....(text omitted)

I couldn't agree more with that statement. That's why I'm a communist.../rant

[theburningliberal]

At 12/1/04 07:13 PM, Hammurabi3 wrote:

At 12/1/04 05:46 PM, MuShrOomBastard wrote: "The distribution of wealth and income in the United States has changed little in the direction of greater equality since the turn of the last century, and hardly at all since World War II....(text omitted)

I couldn't agree more with that statement. That's why I'm a communist.../rant

That is the absolute shortest rant I've ever seen in my fucking LIFE. </rant>

[Slizor]

Democracy means rule of the people (literally "people rule" when translated from Greek.) The people does not mean the majority, it means all the people (a system where the majority rule is a majoritarian system.) The US, due to it's majoritarian electoral structures (where the person with the MAJORITY of the vote wins) is not a democracy, but is majoritarian.

The modern definition of democracy is majoritarian. According to that definition, if one person in a democracy disagrees with a law, then it becomes majoritarian because only the majority, not everyone, supports the laws (even if the minority is one). The only way your form of real democracy could be possible is if every person ruled over him/her self. In that case, there is no real government, and there is anarchy.

You fail to understand. A majoritarian system is where the majority gets their way. A democratic system is where both the views of the minority and the majority are considered. On some issues (such as the death penalty) majoritarian decisions would happen because you can't "kinda" have the death penalty.

The "modern" definition of democracy is not majoritarian - that is the layperson's definition. It stems from the misuse of the word democracy when majoritarian should be used.

[Ravens-Grin]

At 12/1/04 07:08 PM, Hammurabi3 wrote:

At 12/1/04 03:36 PM, Ravens_Grin wrote: Ahh democracy, oppression by the majority.

That what political system do you suggest, eh? I mean if democracy sucks, what else is left?

All political systems have their plus and minuses. There is no good political system. Democracy is most likely the best because it is what I have seen work the best. Communism is in theory a better idea for everyone then democracy, but has never worked. It is hypocritical for me to complain but then praise about democracy, but the more you know about a topic the better you can harness its capabilities. Thinking of this... I wrote an article in my english class, I'll post it on here after I get back from work(On here I mean on another topic).

[Gutmunchr]

At 12/1/04 07:46 AM, Slizor wrote: Democracy means rule of the people (literally "people rule" when translated from Greek.) The people does not mean the majority, it means all the people (a system where the majority rule is a majoritarian system.) The US, due to it's majoritarian electoral structures (where the person with the MAJORITY of the vote wins) is not a democracy, but is majoritarian.

Thats what democracy means in greek, we are speaking English. There can never be a rule of the people, if 60% support the death penalty and 40% dont, should the death penalty be used 60% of the time? thats hardly fair when people are getting different punishments for the same crime.

[AntiangelicAngel]

The United States is a fascist nation that proves you can get away with anyone if everyone is too afraid to mess with you.

[Jlop985]

At 12/5/04 07:07 PM, AntiangelicAngel wrote: The United States is a fascist nation that proves you can get away with anyone if everyone is too afraid to mess with you.

Look up information on Italy or Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. Those countries were facsist. Then, shut up with the ridiculous claims that the US is facsist. There are many disagreeable traits about the US, but it is not a fascist country.

[g-spot-gigilo]

Democracy is a tricky thing, there are several definitions of what constitutes a Liberal Democracy and many have similarities.
Frequent and fair elections
Gov't officials are majority elected
Adults (exept criminals) participate in both elections, or as elected officals if they choose.
Choice of where you get your information about gov't issues

These are just a few common ones any ways.

Some complain about the electoral system but few vote in the primarys
We can hold our elected officals responsible for there actions.
Those who cry about the corperations are the same people supporting them by, shopping at wal-mart, buying gas guzzling SUV's , whearing shirts that say Nike or what ever on the front becoming walking unpaid billboards, ext., in the U.S. we have a choice to which companies to support by chooseing what we buy, we can chooose our officals, we can choose our news sources, we are a democracy and a republic. Many complain about minority suppression but it is not like your being shot for being a minority or being kept silent. Democracies represent the general will of the people, a sum of the differences between two beleifs the majority gets the most out of it thats just life.