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At 11/22/04 05:04 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: You see, I have no reason whatsoever to be "proud of the achievements our countries have made over the centuries" since the result is that 25% of the world population is responsible for 86% of the world's consumption.

These figures only exist because the poor third world countries are trying to catch up with us- at present some of them are getting closer, they maybe are at a similar level to what our countries were like during the industrial revolution. It may take a few more centuries till they get up to the levels we are at now.

To be honest I dont really care- I dont see why we europeans should feel bad because our countries have progressed and modernised so much faster than say countries in Africa. Its not our fault that we used science and engineering progress forward so fast- infact it is something to be proud off wheather you like it or not.

I will countinue also to say this- I dont see the point of allowing our countries to be destroyed by mass imagration, it seems utter madness that you could condone such a thing. Do you hate your life and your country or something?

At 11/22/04 07:31 AM, ShadowsFall wrote:

To be honest I dont really care- I dont see why we europeans should feel bad because our countries have progressed and modernised so much faster than say countries in Africa. Its not our fault that we used science and engineering progress forward so fast- infact it is something to be proud off wheather you like it or not.

I will countinue also to say this- I dont see the point of allowing our countries to be destroyed by mass imagration, it seems utter madness that you could condone such a thing. Do you hate your life and your country or something?

Yes, but you never contributed anything to that fantastic engineering work or the powerful knowledge of sience so whats the reason to be proud of? Look, i know its nice to live in a country with food all over the place, and that i can follow a education and that i someday later can get a damn weelchair, but you never helped your country (nor did i, but im not proud of it) to achieve such level.

And the Muslims, they dont screw up our country, but the extremists do.

At 11/22/04 10:50 AM, Scumputer wrote: Yes, but you never contributed anything to that fantastic engineering work or the powerful knowledge of sience so whats the reason to be proud of? Look, i know its nice to live in a country with food all over the place, and that i can follow a education and that i someday later can get a damn weelchair, but you never helped your country (nor did i, but im not proud of it) to achieve such level.

And I may well help my country one day. You never know you may do something for your land too. There certainly is no hope for our country when people are no longer patriotic and prepared to stand up for your country when it matters the most- and right now I think this is a time in our history when it matters to stand up. A time we could lose alot of good things that will never beable to be reserectted once there gone. One thing youll never lose is the blood flowing through your viens- that is european blood- and dont forget it.

I like you at first for all the wool trade England does with you, then I hate you for all the fighting we do, then I like you for fighting with us against the French; but I hate you abit because William the Orange is our King and he doesnt give a shit about Britain (except its money of course). You have a decent empire, its worth pointing out, when signing a peace deal between us we get New Amsterdam as part of the bargain, and a bargain it was. I think the dutch have a damned impressive history. All I ever hear about the Netherlands now is your soft laws on everything, ie excessive freedom. I have heard dutch people are similar to Enlgish people in ways, a similiar sense of humour and supposedly they like to drink and fight alot on their night outs; though im not sure is its true. Lets get down to the real reason the dutch are class, seeing as there are only 20 million of you, you have a fucking amazing football team and my favourite player in football, jimmy floyd hasslebaink (he has loads of character and passion; some might call it anger). I hear the Germans consider the Netherlands to be theirs and that they dont have a high opinion of them. And I dont understand why politically you Dutch are so quiet, the lack of an army?

At 11/23/04 05:13 AM, Gutmunchr wrote:

:And I dont understand why politically you Dutch are so quiet, the lack of an army?

No my friend, not the lack of an army (we might have a small one, but it has state of the art weaponry), the enormous lack of good leadership. For i think that its about time that we (the Dutch people) deal with this so called good goverment.

At 11/22/04 12:27 PM, ShadowsFall wrote: And I may well help my country one day. You never know you may do something for your land too. There certainly is no hope for our country when people are no longer patriotic and prepared to stand up for your country when it matters the most- and right now I think this is a time in our history when it matters to stand up. A time we could lose alot of good things that will never beable to be reserectted once there gone. One thing youll never lose is the blood flowing through your viens- that is european blood- and dont forget it.

So you say, that if we kicked all the people out who read the Koran daily it would be a act of selfdefense? A act of patriotic people? This would bring even more casualties if they hear that they are soon leaving this country against their own will. So what do you suggest we do?

At 11/23/04 09:44 AM, Scumputer wrote: So you say, that if we kicked all the people out who read the Koran daily it would be a act of selfdefense? A act of patriotic people? This would bring even more casualties if they hear that they are soon leaving this country against their own will. So what do you suggest we do?

Basically a massive overhall of the imagration and asylum systems in european countries. So only a very small number of people are allowed in our countries every year- a fraction of the number entering right now. Any illegal imagrants that are caught should removed from the country as fast as possible- no court appeals(that costs the UK millions in legal aid, all courtesy of the tax payer)- just instant removal. Also no benifits for these imagrants- they have no right getting benifits, that would be anouther incentive to make them leave. Drag them out of the country kicking and screeming if we have too. Youve got to be cruel to be kind. Its because our countries have become so soft that they can take advantage of us so easily.

There's one thing that bothers me a lot about the third world. They breed like hell. More than 90% of all babies are born in a third world country.

"We don't have enough food, what could we do about it... Ah, what the heck, let's make babies."

Yeah, I know that's their religion, lots of kids will provide you with a guaranteed good old day. But, lets face it, IT DOESN'T WORK! I really think they should stop breeding so much, the world already HAS a overpopulation problem, so we don't need additional kids that have to go through hell every singele fucking day, without food, clean water and proper healthcare...

At 11/23/04 10:22 AM, ShadowsFall wrote:

Basically a massive overhall of the imagration and asylum systems in european countries. So only a very small number of people are allowed in our countries every year- a fraction of the number entering right now. Any illegal imagrants that are caught should removed from the country as fast as possible- no court appeals(that costs the UK millions in legal aid, all courtesy of the tax payer)- just instant removal. Also no benifits for these imagrants- they have no right getting benifits, that would be anouther incentive to make them leave. Drag them out of the country kicking and screeming if we have too. Youve got to be cruel to be kind. Its because our countries have become so soft that they can take advantage of us so easily.

I, perhaps have a better idea. Only give war victims the possiblity of finding a save place here. And when peace has returned, they all go back to were they used to live. If they dont want to go back, like you said, kick them out screaming.

Most people come over here because we have much money and much work to offer. But in that case, then every poor human can come over here, who have a little lesser nice life.

At 11/22/04 07:31 AM, ShadowsFall wrote: These figures only exist because the poor third world countries are trying to catch up with us- at present some of them are getting closer, they maybe are at a similar level to what our countries were like during the industrial revolution. It may take a few more centuries till they get up to the levels we are at now.

To be honest I dont really care- I dont see why we europeans should feel bad because our countries have progressed and modernised so much faster than say countries in Africa. Its not our fault that we used science and engineering progress forward so fast- infact it is something to be proud off wheather you like it or not.

I will countinue also to say this- I dont see the point of allowing our countries to be destroyed by mass imagration, it seems utter madness that you could condone such a thing. Do you hate your life and your country or something?

You keep ignoring the fact that it's our fault the third world is poor, because we kolonised them and nowadays use them for practically slave labour. Way to win an argument. Don't you have any response to that? Or does that pierce to much holes in your western arrogance?

At 11/24/04 10:33 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: You keep ignoring the fact that it's our fault the third world is poor, because we kolonised them and nowadays use them for practically slave labour. Way to win an argument. Don't you have any response to that? Or does that pierce to much holes in your western arrogance?

My response to that is the same I gave to you previously- why should we suffer because most of the world failed to advance as quickly as our lands. Think about it- they were poor before we reached them. To use africa for an example they were still pretty much in the stone age before we came along lol. When britain colinised India we gave them railways and later cars that they still use today. To say they didnt benifit from us is a lie- we created the fondations of civilisation in their countries- now theyve got to build on those fondations and finish the job we started. Rather than come here and destroy our civilisation.

I can tell by some of your posts that you are a one world kinda person (very left wing and liberal) that would like to see all borders destroyed- well im not. I beleive every nation should remain seperate so to preserve their culture and identity. Can you just accept that we have different opinions and leave it at that.

At 11/24/04 11:27 AM, ShadowsFall wrote: My response to that is the same I gave to you previously- why should we suffer because most of the world failed to advance as quickly as our lands. Think about it- they were poor before we reached them. To use africa for an example they were still pretty much in the stone age before we came along lol. When britain colinised India we gave them railways and later cars that they still use today. To say they didnt benifit from us is a lie- we created the fondations of civilisation in their countries- now theyve got to build on those fondations and finish the job we started. Rather than come here and destroy our civilisation.

They were poor by our standards, but very rich by theirs. When we forced them into the economic system the West uses, it instantly put them at a disadvantage.

Honestly, why should any country be expected to live by our standards so long as they could feed themselves and prosper? Oh, that's right, because we couldn't make money off of them.

At 11/24/04 11:37 AM, Maus wrote: They were poor by our standards, but very rich by theirs. When we forced them into the economic system the West uses, it instantly put them at a disadvantage.

Honestly, why should any country be expected to live by our standards so long as they could feed themselves and prosper? Oh, that's right, because we couldn't make money off of them.

To be honest I dont care how they live- they could live in mud huts or palaces for all I care. As long as they dont impose on my country by getting benifits and free housing, and in the process of doing this attempting to force there values, religions and opinions on me and my country men. Unfortuatly they do try and do all these things and im begining to get pissed off with it.

At 11/24/04 07:30 PM, ShadowsFall wrote:

To be honest I dont care how they live- they could live in mud huts or palaces for all I care. As long as they dont impose on my country by getting benifits and free housing, and in the process of doing this attempting to force there values, religions and opinions on me and my country men. Unfortuatly they do try and do all these things and im begining to get pissed off with it.

I also think that they should not get free houses. And because of that some muslims do force their opinions and values and religions on other people, doesnt mean that they all do it. For example, there is a friend of mine who is muslim, and i leave him alone with his religion, and he accepts that i do not have a religion. So because of those other muslims who force their religion on other people doesnt say that they all do that. Why should the good suffer because of the bad?

Wow, this thread gets a lot of attention :D...

Any way, I'm an atheist, and I'm happy with it. I really don't care whether somebody's Muslim or Catholic or.... as long as they respect each others choices.

At 11/24/04 11:27 AM, ShadowsFall wrote: I can tell by some of your posts that you are a one world kinda person (very left wing and liberal) that would like to see all borders destroyed- well im not. I beleive every nation should remain seperate so to preserve their culture and identity. Can you just accept that we have different opinions and leave it at that.

I can accept we have different opinions, I can however not accept that you keep ignoring my point that we are still using these people for cheap labour which keeps them poor. We also use up their fertile land to produce food for our meat industry, creating food shortage in those regions. I still don't find it very odd those people want to move to the country's were the money ends up that's sucked out of theirs.

Well Veggiemeal,

Are you pro-EU? I mean, would you like the idea of the Netherlands not being a separate nation, but a component of the EU?

I do think the EU is a good idea, but I don't agree with groups wanting to create something like the United States of Europe. I think we should be a separate country, which is a member of the EU, willing to co-operate on a European and global scale on many subjects, but I do think we should stay a separate nation, with our own justice system, our own government, our own laws, parliament et cetera.

At 11/16/04 02:41 PM, TheShrike wrote: I think I want to visit Amsterdam.

Coolness. We can goto the "Wallen" and visit a coffeeshop. ;)

Frankly, I'd rather live in the Netherlands where people are almost TOO free (note: ALMOST) than in the US where victimless acts are crimes and acts that harm millions are perfectly legal.

At 11/28/04 09:13 AM, nXXt wrote: Are you pro-EU? I mean, would you like the idea of the Netherlands not being a separate nation, but a component of the EU?

No, I'm against the EU. So far it has brought The Netherlands nothing but shit. We had a very strong valuta but we traded our neat lil' gilder in for the friggin' euro. Now we've given away a very powerful economic tool. We can't decide for ourselves wether we should have a high or a low interest rate. So, for instance, when the italians fuck up (which history has pointed out not to be unusual) we get fucked with them. Also we can't have a budget shortage of more than tree percent of our GDP, which forces us to cut back on all sort of social funding. This while the eduction and health care in our country is a mess right now. We also got fucked by France and Germany in the stabilisation pact. Co-operation is nice, but this shit is going to far. The smaller countries are constantly being fucked by the bigger ones, and the entire EU government is one big corrupt pile of shitheads.

At 11/28/04 10:39 AM, Zendra wrote: Coolness. We can goto the "Wallen" and visit a coffeeshop. ;)

Gimme a break junior.

Since when was money the main factor that determine a countries worth?

If you judge a countries worth by the number of people it successfully allows to survive, the 3rd world is doing MUCH better than the western world.

It's only when you give social value to money that any one is "poor".

At 11/24/04 07:30 PM, ShadowsFall wrote: As long as they dont impose on my country by getting benifits and free housing, and in the process of doing this attempting to force there values, religions and opinions on me and my country men. Unfortuatly they do try and do all these things and im begining to get pissed off with it.

You can thank your countries leaders, both past and present for making those people dependant on our lifestyle. If we had left well enough alone, instead of forcing them to live by our standards, they wouldn't be fleeing the countries where that standard is not possible.

They aren't forcing their values and religion on you any more than we have done in the past to them. I don't see the women of Britain being forcibly opressed by law, so I don't see how anyone is being 'forced' to do anything, really.

At 11/28/04 02:51 PM, Maus wrote: They aren't forcing their values and religion on you any more than we have done in the past to them. I don't see the women of Britain being forcibly opressed by law, so I don't see how anyone is being 'forced' to do anything, really.

If nothing is done about it now- you will see the reality of what im talking about in a few decades. Come on dont be so short sighted, think about it.

At 11/28/04 06:07 PM, ShadowsFall wrote: If nothing is done about it now- you will see the reality of what im talking about in a few decades. Come on dont be so short sighted, think about it.

A few decades? I highly doubt that. Maybe in a few hundred years, but all things change eventually.

At 11/28/04 06:56 PM, Maus wrote: A few decades? I highly doubt that. Maybe in a few hundred years, but all things change eventually.

Come on just look at the 20th century and use that as your way of predicting of how fast things change- the world no longer runs at a slow pace like it might have done a number of centuries ago. Read the writing on the wall.

At 11/28/04 07:05 PM, ShadowsFall wrote: Come on just look at the 20th century and use that as your way of predicting of how fast things change- the world no longer runs at a slow pace like it might have done a number of centuries ago. Read the writing on the wall.

If anything, over the last century, more freedoms than ever have been granted. Weren't women second class citizens until the last century, unless they were royalty?

Exactly which freedoms of yours are being taken away?

If anything, over the last century, more freedoms than ever have been granted. Weren't women second class citizens until the last century, unless they were royalty?

Only during the Middle Ages. In fact, in very early times (i.e. Sumeria/Babylon) women were considered equal. In later times, such as Rome, some women were able to become equals as well.

At 11/28/04 08:15 PM, LexanPhoenix wrote: Only during the Middle Ages. In fact, in very early times (i.e. Sumeria/Babylon) women were considered equal. In later times, such as Rome, some women were able to become equals as well.

When were women granted the right to own property in Britain?

We aren't talking about 1000 years ago. We're talking about the last 100 years.

At 11/21/04 12:29 PM, ShadowsFall wrote: liberal thought police

chortle.