As you may or may not know, the media has recently been blowing their loud trumpets about showing mercy to American Taliban jihader John Walker. They're on CNN and FoxNews waving their banners, sympathizing with a terrorist just because he's from California. "Oh," they say "he's a good ol' boy. He must just be confused. That's why he's taken up arms with a band of psychotic fundamentalist crusaders. That's why he's on the side that masacarred nearly 5,000 innocent Americans. That's why he's out in the desert with his 'brothers' praising a sun-fried supervillain known as Osama bin Laden. That's why he's been doing all these strange things; because he's confused." I don't buy it. It is a glaring contradiction that the same government that promised 'no mercy' against the perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks is now considering changing their rules because their newest detainee is white. The very idea of letting John Walker, a first class traitor to America, slide makes a mockery of our country and all she stands for. I don't believe that a murderer should be pardoned because of his skin tone. A terrorist by any other race is still a terrorist; plain and simple.
In fact, if anything John Walker should be met with even stricter punishment, to show the world that the United States is not a country of cowards and hypocrites, and to send the message to all those out there who would even think about betraying their country. As our commander and chief has said, this is not a racial war. Therefore, no exceptions to our country's judicial policies should be made. Let us not only try Walker on his charges of terror, but also on the crime of treason which he has comitted. Make of him an example to all people that the United States will not tolerate terrorists of any race, color, or creed.
John Walker-Traitor to America
He has the right to join any nation or cause he wants. If he joined their military, then that was his decsion and he accepted responsibility for it. Going in and getting him would be folly. If he's a prisioner of war, treat him like the others. The american origin isn't a shield, a protectorate, or anything to scoff at. He had diffrent views than us, and that's okay. He's not a traitor at all. He just doesn't agree with you. If he could actually be linked to bombings etc... then he could be punished by war crimes. If he doesn't then he was only doing what he felt was right. He's a prisoner of the nothern alliance, not an american traitor. That's all he is. Maybe he should have his citizen ship revoked, but that's all america should do. It's not our invovlment.
Damned right! Too bad the socialist left in America is going to demand that he go through a normal civil trial. Because of the fact that he was born in America. The fact is, is that he is a traitor, and forfeited his citizenship when he fought for an enemy nation. He should be put to a slow and painful death! What's going to happen? Well, if the left has their way, they will paint him into a hero. Just like that cop killing piece of crap Mumia Al Jabar.
It's funny this double standard the left has, they want to save this punk-ass-bitch so badly, because of course, he fought alongside these poor "ethnic" terrorists. But what about the terrorist Timothy McVeigh? Don't get me wrong, i'm happy as hell the put him to sleep like a dog. But where was the left then and their constant screaming for civil rights! They were nowhere, because he was white, and on the wrong side of their political fence.
If anything, it will be interesting to see what happens to this waste of air.
Him? He's just some religious fanatic who found a cause he was sick enough to like. Therefore, he joined it. He is free to believe whoever he wants under the American constitution, even if those beliefs aren't in the best intrest of America. Besides, if we killed all the fanatic religious in American... um... uh... okay, so the world would probably be a better place...
At 12/14/01 10:32 PM, GameboyCC_is_Alive wrote: Him? He's just some religious fanatic who found a cause he was sick enough to like. Therefore, he joined it. He is free to believe whoever he wants under the American constitution, even if those beliefs aren't in the best intrest of America.
Yes, he can believe anything he wants freely, HOWEVER, when he ACTIVELY seeks out to destroy America, and kill Americans (soldiers anyway) he is a traitor. It goes far beyond dissent.
:Besides, if we killed all the fanatic religious in American... um... uh... okay, so the world would probably be a better place...
True, but then we'd have to kill all the psychotic aiethest greenpeace leftist fanatics too. Then the world would truly be a good place.
It's funny how people are only called traitors when they defect to the opposing force. Any Taliban who came to our side certainly wouldn't be called traitors. There is your double standard.
Walker left our country. Why the hell would he care about his citizenship being revoked? He gave it up already.
At 12/14/01 10:26 PM, Biseor wrote: But what about the terrorist Timothy McVeigh? ...But where was the left then and their constant screaming for civil rights! They were nowhere, because he was white, and on the wrong side of their political fence.
McVeigh was a U.S. citizen inside our country. Walker doesn't want to be a part of our country. In his mind, he probably doesn't consider himself American. Much like I don't consider myself Catholic or Christian even though I was christened as a child. These are different matters.
Damned right! Too bad the socialist left in America is going to demand that he go through a normal civil trial.
Hahah! Like there's a socialist left in America!
At 12/14/01 11:22 PM, Biseor wrote:At 12/14/01 10:32 PM, GameboyCC_is_Alive wrote: Him? He's just some religious fanatic who found a cause he was sick enough to like. Therefore, he joined it. He is free to believe whoever he wants under the American constitution, even if those beliefs aren't in the best intrest of America.Yes, he can believe anything he wants freely, HOWEVER, when he ACTIVELY seeks out to destroy America, and kill Americans (soldiers anyway) he is a traitor. It goes far beyond dissent.
That would be treason, but who cares... he's just some ass who happens to agree with the Taliban. If he is captured, he is in the hands of the govenment. I'm not gonna lose too much sleep over it.
Besides, if we killed all the fanatic religious in American... um... uh... okay, so the world would probably be a better place...True, but then we'd have to kill all the psychotic aiethest greenpeace leftist fanatics too. Then the world would truly be a good place.
Then after we kill all the right-wing censorship activist and/or the GOP, we will be in Utopia!
At 12/16/01 03:13 AM, GameboyCC_is_Alive wrote:At 12/14/01 11:22 PM, Biseor wrote:That would be treason, but who cares... he's just some ass who happens to agree with the Taliban. If he is captured, he is in the hands of the govenment. I'm not gonna lose too much sleep over it.At 12/14/01 10:32 PM, GameboyCC_is_Alive wrote: Him? He's just some religious fanatic who found a cause he was sick enough to like. Therefore, he joined it. He is free to believe whoever he wants under the American constitution, even if those beliefs aren't in the best intrest of America.Yes, he can believe anything he wants freely, HOWEVER, when he ACTIVELY seeks out to destroy America, and kill Americans (soldiers anyway) he is a traitor. It goes far beyond dissent.
Then after we kill all the right-wing censorship activist and/or the GOP, we will be in Utopia!
Besides, if we killed all the fanatic religious in American... um... uh... okay, so the world would probably be a better place...True, but then we'd have to kill all the psychotic aiethest greenpeace leftist fanatics too. Then the world would truly be a good place.
You are all looking past the glaring contradiction, though. I'm not screaming for Walker's death, I am merely pointing out the glaring controversy in his situation versus that of other Taliban criminals. He is being considered for lighter punishment simply because he is an AMERICAN BY BIRTH. What difference should that make, I ask you? What weight should that hold in an international trial, for an international henchman to terror that threatens the international community? If we are truly a just and straight-shooting nation, we should hold no distinction between John Walker and Ahkmed Jabar, or any other terrorist conscript fighting for the Taliban. If allow this man to escape light punishment, then we are simply giving more ammomuntion to the Al-Qaeda propaganda machine. I simply feel that WE MUST DEAL WITH THIS SITUATION RESPONSIBLY AND ACCORDING TO ITS REPRUCUSIONS ON THE WORLD COMMUNITY. We can hold no favor for this man, nor give any unfounded mercy to he or his 'confused' brothers.
Then after we kill all the right-wing censorship activist and/or the GOP, we will be in Utopia!
Yeah, because censorship is bad. I want my kids watching ultra-hardcore gay sex in cartoons while i'm off at work.
I kind of wish the right wing was dead too, so lefto-maniacs like you can learn how a leftist run world will really be. I couldn't even begin to imagine the oppressive absolute cess-pool the world would become. But as a ghost I would walk around laughing my ass off to see you and people like on the ground writhing in a puddle of your own drug induced filth as you choke to death on your own vomit. I'd get many laughs too. Watching the way leftists blindly shoot themselves in the foot in a variety of ways I couldn't even begin to imagine. Ah, dreams.
Both Side's are using a double standard. Conservatives want to kill him because he's "a traitor" even though he hasn't been linked to any attacks on america, and was in all truthfulness fighting defensivly to a nation to which he owns fealty. Then Some Liberals are saying "ohh he's american, so he should be saved" even though he specifically chose to leave America and fight for another cause.
He chose responsibility for his actions. If He's a prisioner of the Northern Alliance, then that's it. It doesn't matter if He's American. He fought against the coalition and got captured. He deserves fair treatment along every other P.O.W. of the Northern Alliance, as long as it's in accordance with International law.
At 12/17/01 10:12 PM, PenguinBerryClock wrote: Both Side's are using a double standard. Conservatives want to kill him because he's "a traitor" even though he hasn't been linked to any attacks on america, and was in all truthfulness fighting defensivly to a nation to which he owns fealty. Then Some Liberals are saying "ohh he's american, so he should be saved" even though he specifically chose to leave America and fight for another cause.
He chose responsibility for his actions. If He's a prisioner of the Northern Alliance, then that's it. It doesn't matter if He's American. He fought against the coalition and got captured. He deserves fair treatment along every other P.O.W. of the Northern Alliance, as long as it's in accordance with International law.
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And finally, someone understands. You have found the great underlying point within the point, my friend Penguin. He should not be favored more than any other Taliban prisoner. Once again, I don't think we should murder him. I simply think he deserves no favoritism. Our wise flightless aquatic bird/clock has hit the nail on the head. Most admirable logic, Penguin clock. :)
PS-Biseor, I don't care if you call me a leftist, a rightist, a Communist, or a flavorist, because it is obvious that you are a rambling moron who has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. You would love to see me choking on my own vomit? Let me tell you something friend, you're thought process is all fucked-up. You think, by your own admission, you're some sort of transcendent PTB that will float through the ruin of the world and laugh at its misgivings. My guess is that you spend your Friday nights masterbating in your own homemade fort of feces and jello while chanting Manson quotes. You need to get your facts straight, get your medication on, and get your hands out of matters that don't concern you, Captain Hardass.
Everybody else: peace, I love you.
At 12/17/01 05:35 AM, Biseor wrote:Then after we kill all the right-wing censorship activist and/or the GOP, we will be in Utopia!Yeah, because censorship is bad. I want my kids watching ultra-hardcore gay sex in cartoons while i'm off at work.
The question is, why are you leaving your kids home-alone in the first place?
I kind of wish the right wing was dead too, so lefto-maniacs like you can learn how a leftist run world will really be. I couldn't even begin to imagine the oppressive absolute cess-pool the world would become. But as a ghost I would walk around laughing my ass off to see you and people like on the ground writhing in a puddle of your own drug induced filth as you choke to death on your own vomit. I'd get many laughs too. Watching the way leftists blindly shoot themselves in the foot in a variety of ways I couldn't even begin to imagine. Ah, dreams.
...um... ritilin, dude... does wonders...
I agree with the Penguin on this one. To charge him with treason would be a charge against freedom of thought and beliefs. Chinny's example of his Christianity is a perfect example.
Additionally, do you think this henchmen knew fully about the Sept. 11th attacks? That was very secretive. Keep in mind this guy was just a drone, not a full-fledged leader in this thing. Not even the CIA knew about this. Do you think a henchman would? So do you think he really knew what he was getting into?
wait. the dialogue in this thread is telling me that it was the taliban that was responsible for the trade tower attacks. i admit that i am behind on this john walker topic. i thought by reading this discussion it would become clear, but i am still confused. going to another country and joining their military is not treason. its not as though he was going to fight against america. john walker joined the taliban BEFORE the US attacked them. thousands of americans have fought in foreign armies over the years. does that make them traitors? it just happens that in john walker's case the US ended up at war with the government he was fighting for. he had no way to anticipate this, and to stop fighting would mean to give in to his sworn enemies, the northern alliance, and would make him a deserter. as it happened, the united states declared war on john walker. he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and now he is a prisoner of war of the northern alliance, as he should stay. he didnt fly the planes into the trade center. he didnt tell anyone to do it. he was in afganistan shooting afganis.
what is all this talk about john walker being a terrorist? i thought the terrorists were the al quaida and bin laden's boys. the taliban are the (former) fundimentalist muslim rulers of afganistan. just because they are islamic like bin laden claims to be doesnt make them terrorists, and it doesnt make john walker a terrorist either.
At 12/27/01 02:54 AM, mr_oranges wrote: wait. the dialogue in this thread is telling me that it was the taliban that was responsible for the trade tower attacks. i admit that i am behind on this john walker topic. i thought by reading this discussion it would become clear, but i am still confused. going to another country and joining their military is not treason. its not as though he was going to fight against america. john walker joined the taliban BEFORE the US attacked them. thousands of americans have fought in foreign armies over the years. does that make them traitors? it just happens that in john walker's case the US ended up at war with the government he was fighting for. he had no way to anticipate this, and to stop fighting would mean to give in to his sworn enemies, the northern alliance, and would make him a deserter. as it happened, the united states declared war on john walker. he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and now he is a prisoner of war of the northern alliance, as he should stay. he didnt fly the planes into the trade center. he didnt tell anyone to do it. he was in afganistan shooting afganis.
what is all this talk about john walker being a terrorist? i thought the terrorists were the al quaida and bin laden's boys. the taliban are the (former) fundimentalist muslim rulers of afganistan. just because they are islamic like bin laden claims to be doesnt make them terrorists, and it doesnt make john walker a terrorist either.
Granted the Al Qaeda is not the Taliban, they're not synonyms, but they're hardly autonmous entities. They "war on terrorism" isn't a war to say "We've eliminated people who are called the Al Qaeda, now it's over". It's not a broad enemy labeled under one name. The expanse is deeper, and Obviously, the Taliban government had terrorist implications in the nation, as well as harbour.
I say we treat him like the rest of the Taliban. Give him a fair trial, show he's not a traitor but the enemy. I'm not being cruel, just saying he is indeed the enemy. He made that decision, so see him as one of the Taliban. Give him a prison sentence like you would a Nazi.
But if you've got that whole "show him mercy!" goin' on, shoot him like old-yeller and end his misery. He basically is crippled for life. If he truly was brain-washed by the Taliban and the Taliban are wiped out of existence, his life is over. If we do however talk sense into him and he's willing to make a fresh start, that's okay. But if the man will stay "true to the Taliban forever", please, end his life as the only decent thing to do. Like I said, this is not cruel and unusual. It's merciful.
Plus, would you accept him into society?
I'd never trust a man like him, knowin' his past and his former outlooks on life.
"Life is short and filled with stuff"~The Cramps
At 12/14/01 10:26 PM, Biseor wrote: Damned right! Too bad the socialist left in America is going to demand that he go through a normal civil trial.
What?? They want to give him a fair trial? Those danged commie bastards! (but seriously folks...)
I don't see how he's a traitor. He's been a Muslim (obviously a fanatical one at that) since he was 16 and probably considered himself more Muslim than American, so he would've been on the Taliban's side way before America decided they didn't like the Taliban.
Texas Ranger John Walker? Heavens no!
Has John Walker been linked to September 11th? Has he been linked to murdering in any form? Now, I've heard some people saying that he deserves to be executed, but is that really fair? When we captured soldiers in WWII, did we just flat out say "they're from the Axis, kill them". Well, some did, and some got shot. But in the end, most were kept alive as POWs. And trust me, no massive United States propaganda campaign of pictures of the World Trade Center on fire is going to convince me that a small time group of religious fanatics is in the same league as the Axis powers of WWII. Just because we're in an age where the government is becoming more outrageous and corrupt then ever before does not mean that this man deserves death.
But then again, the odds are against him. Bush is certainly not against the death penalty, and with his style of government, I could imagine him going out of his way to make sure that Walker is killed. And the people would all be happy knowing that their government had just eliminated "the most evil threat to our country ever".
