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At 10/16/04 10:02 PM, Soul_Specter wrote:

At 10/16/04 09:47 PM, Hermannator wrote:

Name all the good things that Bush has done. Because I can't think of anything good about Bush.

i do admit that he has not done much during his presidency. some of this is just what you think.

-1.6 million jobs have been lost, but in 13 months 1.9 million jobs have been gained.

Hmm, the unemployment rates is at 5.4%, compared to 4.2% when Bush entered office. And this source states that there is still a total of 1 million jobs lost.

http://zfacts.com/p/531.html

-the VA has been up.

What's VA? I tired to search it and the results say it has to do with Veterans.

-has raised standards in schools-45-50% increase

-reduced the cost of health care making it affordable.

These two seem fine.

-the enviornment and air have been cleaner as well as water-reversed the net loss of wet lands.

The sources that I looked at somewhat argues against that. They are saying that he did not fully enforce his policies.

This source criticizes Bush for replacing and repairing wetlands rather than prevent their destruction. But whatever, I don't get what they are really saying much.

http://www.progressiveregulation.org/articles/Flournoy_Wetlands_May_04.pdf

-attacking the terrorists to make the people of america safer (he's trying anyway)

Afghanistan was a right decision I believe, but I do not think Iraq was, but we all have our opinions about it.

like i said, it depends on who you are for some of these.

I noticed you did not mention his tax cuts. Considering the current budget deficits, it seems like a mostly bad idea. I don't know if it actually helped the economy, but the economy isn't doing so good now, so it seems it did not.

At 10/16/04 10:43 PM, Hermannator wrote:

Hmm, the unemployment rates is at 5.4%, compared to 4.2% when Bush entered office. And this source states that there is still a total of 1 million jobs lost.

the way its going right now, its getting better considering. its just seems like one of those things where you wait for effect. but i was giving what kerry and bush talked about during the debate:
Kerry "there has been 1.3 million jobs that have been lost"
Bush "in 13 months there have been 1.9 million jobs gained"
kerry didnt reply to that to try and prove it false which is the reason why i posted it.

What's VA? I tired to search it and the results say it has to do with Veterans.

veteran health care.

The sources that I looked at somewhat argues against that. They are saying that he did not fully enforce his policies.

like i said, this is just what was said during the debates. bush mentioned this and kerry didnt deny it.

Afghanistan was a right decision I believe, but I do not think Iraq was, but we all have our opinions about it.

that is true. afghanistan was the right decision. i think iraq was as well since well, war against terror and there is terrorism in iraq amoung other things. just my opinion as we all have.

I noticed you did not mention his tax cuts. Considering the current budget deficits, it seems like a mostly bad idea. I don't know if it actually helped the economy, but the economy isn't doing so good now, so it seems it did not.

meh, as ive said before i think its in the neutral zone.
whats cool is that you provide links, and i thank you for that because people dont do that much anymore.

At 10/16/04 10:54 PM, Soul_Specter wrote:

At 10/16/04 10:43 PM, Hermannator wrote:

the way its going right now, its getting better considering. its just seems like one of those things where you wait for effect. but i was giving what kerry and bush talked about during the debate:
Kerry "there has been 1.3 million jobs that have been lost"
Bush "in 13 months there have been 1.9 million jobs gained"
kerry didnt reply to that to try and prove it false which is the reason why i posted it.

Yeah, the candidates apparently were talking about a certain time period most likely.

What's VA? I tired to search it and the results say it has to do with Veterans.

veteran health care.

This source states that a bunch of veterans were upset with Bush for not keeping his promise.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1222-01.htm

This source states that the Administration has cut off a large number of veterans from the health care system.

http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm

The sources that I looked at somewhat argues against that. They are saying that he did not fully enforce his policies.

like i said, this is just what was said during the debates. bush mentioned this and kerry didnt deny it.

I thought Kerry said that the air wasn't cleaner, etc. But I'm not much into the environmental issues.

whats cool is that you provide links, and i thank you for that because people dont do that much anymore.

Your welcome. I tried to provide sources whenever possible, although sometimes they may be biased.

I listen too both parties.. I just dont like most of bushes desictions... WMD's in Iraq Plausible...but wasting all of OUR tax dolars on BS! We had a Surplus before bush came into office! and yes clinton did some wrong things yes but that doents derive the fact that bush is hurting out economy!

Yes jobs are on the increase...In other Contries and plus....All of thos bills are pure PORK as in they send most of the money to others that dont even need it... our Educational system is on its downfall here in alabama... i dont see any mony from that Bill COngrees signed for "No Child left behind" all we see is a person afraid to stand up and say "Yes I skrewed up BUT I ADMIT IT! yes it is hard to admit....But do it thats all i have to say to bush...

another thing is he is Supporting Coprate america... not the economy... he promised us tax breack Where the frick are they? all i have seen is tax increases!....i like bush i really do... but our nation cant stand this tryany any more!

At 10/16/04 11:10 PM, Hermannator wrote:

This source states that a bunch of veterans were upset with Bush for not keeping his promise.

they said that as well during the debate. kerry mentioned all the veterans that were complaining, but bush said that they were getting better. i know that bush has sort of ignored. but according to vfw.org the health care for veterans rose 1.8% and is the reason why a few veterans are complaining, they say its not as high as it should be. the website does go on about it tho. i would just say he's giving a semi-effort, since we're in a war funding our troops in iraq.

I thought Kerry said that the air wasn't cleaner, etc. But I'm not much into the environmental issues.

he mightve, im not denying it, but im not into it either. what i dont understand is how the enviornment couldve been doing so bad. i mean, we've planted multiple trees in areas and no one clear cuts anymore. after they take down trees they go back and replant new one.

At 10/13/04 09:29 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: Plus, how does anyone know these guys IQ's? I have heard rumors of 91 before but never any proof. Can someone please settle this for me once and for all?

They based it upon the speeches the president said and the articles that they wrote by themselves.

At 10/16/04 11:13 PM, komandrkool wrote: I listen too both parties.. I just dont like most of bushes desictions... WMD's in Iraq Plausible...but wasting all of OUR tax dolars on BS! We had a Surplus before bush came into office! and yes clinton did some wrong things yes but that doents derive the fact that bush is hurting out economy!

well, im not sure if he's hurting the economy for several reasons:
one reason is because we are at war, war is good for the economy. when people go to war, more spots open up for employment and people start focusing on the war.
ive also talked to people at my school and others (democrats, republicans and others) who, in a majority, said that the economy is up. i think its neutral, not as up and not as down as people say.

Yes jobs are on the increase...In other Contries and plus....All of thos bills are pure PORK as in they send most of the money to others that dont even need it... our Educational system is on its downfall here in alabama... i dont see any mony from that Bill COngrees signed for "No Child left behind" all we see is a person afraid to stand up and say "Yes I skrewed up BUT I ADMIT IT! yes it is hard to admit....But do it thats all i have to say to bush...

im wondering why your edgucation is on a downfall because bush has raised standards and because of that more people are going into colleges and getting better jobs. it shows a 45-50% increase.

another thing is he is Supporting Coprate america... not the economy... he promised us tax breack Where the frick are they? all i have seen is tax increases!....i like bush i really do... but our nation cant stand this tryany any more!

i havent seen tax rising except the price of gasoline which could be because florida was being struck by hurricanes left and right. but the lowest here (where i live) is $1.70, it used to be $1.40. i do complain about it, but bush has no control over what prices they feel like putting out. but i guess we shouldnt be complaining because in other countries the gas price is over $5.00 a gallon.

kerry talks about how he can raise minimum wages, my question is how. you cant control the way people run their businesses being as america is a capilolist country. the minimum wage here is supposed to be $6.00, but there are people only getting paid under $2.00. thats why i say neither bush nor kerry can pull it off.

At 10/16/04 11:25 PM, Soul_Specter wrote: but according to vfw.org the health care for veterans rose 1.8% and is the reason why a few veterans are complaining, they say its not as high as it should be. the website does go on about it tho. i would just say he's giving a semi-effort, since we're in a war funding our troops in iraq.

Yeah. With the budget problems and the war, it would be hard to fund everything.

If Bush gets re-elected, I hope he thinks of a plan to fix the budget deficit. Since he wants to keep the tax cuts permanent, the only other easy way is to cut budgets and that will be bad, since Bush would break his promises to the programs. The only other possible way is that the economy somehow gets a great boost and generates more tax revenue.

The economy has been growing faster now than it has in 20 years.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1147566/posts

~Z~

At 10/13/04 09:20 PM, PotatoeMan wrote: How can you even call kerry dumb when Bush's iq is lower than the average citizen. I guarantee kerry is more intelligent than Bush..just look at the debates, if that doesnt prove it to you then you are just lying to yourself..

Kerry IS dumb. The Bush having an IQ of 91 thing is a lie, and a fake. Who made that site that gives it? a Bush hater I bet. If he really took an iq test they would give some reference to where he took the test, or something like that. These debates prove that Kerry is a skillful debator. But lets not forget that he debated in college, even had a debating coach. (what a douche) Be that as it may, being a good debator means that Kerry can take any side of an arguement and still seem convincing. Which is why he can contradict himself continously and still atleast SOUND intelligent. The point is that America doesn't need a debator, it needs a leader, like Bush, who is not afraid to kick some ass just because he doesn't have the support of frenchies who don't like Americans in the first place.

At 10/16/04 09:03 PM, PotatoeMan wrote: The cycle has to end somewhere. That actually makes him corageous not evil.

What cycle? The one were about 10 million or so people get laid off due to IMPOSSIBLE goals?

90% of hunting rifles dont have features that can be used as a grip.

Can you say, spell it out slow now a STOCK. Yep, that's right you can GRIP one... OMG!!1!!!!1111

Yea? so? he views their actions in Vietnam differently, how does that make him evil?

So you admit you are biased and blind to facts? He called HIMSELF a war criminal, also people that are doing their jobs. Is every soldier in Iraq right now a war criminal?

Besides even if you were right, this is trivial compared to what

Bush is being called evil for, its not even in the same ballpark..

One mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter.

It is like comparing someone who doesnt return a 20 they found with Hitler (no I am not calling him a nazi).
(you have to put it into context or show both sides as you have stated)

They are in context to me. What you consider important and what I do are two different things.

an opinion

Nope, fact. Dave Koppell sp* did a full report about how Kerry recieved a scratch and pursued a medal through TWO different units.

At 10/16/04 11:44 PM, Z17 wrote: The economy has been growing faster now than it has in 20 years.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1147566/posts

~Z~

Well, it better be growing! It has been shitty for a while and we better be getting out of it. Hopefully it will continue growing and maybe grow past what it used to be before Bush took office. Then hopefully unemployment will be low. Then we have to worry about the budget deficits.

What cycle? The one were about 10 million or so people get laid off due to IMPOSSIBLE goals?

uh..no, the one where companies dont try to improve their vehicles they just keep making whatever they want despite the need for higher mileage cars and if you try to force them you have to lay a few people off. And where do you get these facts where it says 10 million people will be laid off if they stop making the f-350?

Can you say, spell it out slow now a STOCK. Yep, that's right you can GRIP one... OMG!!1!!!!1111

No you are wrong, It means PISTOL GRIP, not just a stock. AND like I stated MOST hunting rifles dont have pistol grips.

So you admit you are biased and blind to facts? He called HIMSELF a war criminal, also people that are doing their jobs. Is every soldier in Iraq right now a war criminal?

what? I admit I am biased and blind to the facts? Where did you get that? He called himself a war criminal at the time because he viewed the entire war a criminal action. Every soldier in Iraq is a war criminal? How did you come up with that?

One mans terrorist, is another mans freedom fighter.

HUH?

They are in context to me. What you consider important and what I do are two different things.

Obviously...you should start thinking of stuff that doesnt affect you directly..

Nope, fact. Dave Koppell sp* did a full report about how Kerry recieved a scratch and pursued a medal through TWO different units.

first purple heart...
"The Batman crew encountered some Viet Cong, engaged in a firefight, and Kerry was slightly wounded on his arm"
second purple heart....
"Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh."
third...
"On March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, wounding Kerry in the right arm"

and by definition any wound inflicted by instruments of war deserves a purple heart.

Bronze star
"The man was receiving sniper fire from both banks, according to Kerry's Bronze Star citation from that day. "Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service"

At 10/17/04 01:36 AM, PotatoeMan wrote: uh..no, the one where companies dont try to improve their vehicles they just keep making whatever they want despite the need for higher mileage cars and if you try to force them you have to lay a few people off. And where do you get these facts where it says 10 million people will be laid off if they stop making the f-350?

There's a difference though. Going straight into it, thereby crippling the auto industry. Slow to medium improvement is good, saying you have two years to come up with technology that isn't currently feasible is bad. Let's see. The F-350, F-250, F-150, Excursion, Explorer, Suburban, Hummer, Hummer 2, 1500, 2500, 3500, etc... etc... would ALL be impacted, crippling light truck production and putting millions of auto workers and mechanics, steel workings and tire manufacturers sp* out of business.

Can you say, spell it out slow now a STOCK. Yep, that's right you can GRIP one... OMG!!1!!!!1111

No you are wrong, It means PISTOL GRIP, not just a stock. AND like I stated MOST hunting rifles dont have pistol grips.

No, it says ANYTHING that can be used as a grip, not anything EXCEPT for semi-pistol grip stocks. There is also a fore-GRIP...

what? I admit I am biased and blind to the facts? Where did you get that? He called himself a war criminal at the time because he viewed the entire war a criminal action. Every soldier in Iraq is a war criminal? How did you come up with that?

Because you constantly ignore or go around plain and reasonable views. He called himself and his fellow soldiers war criminals for doing their job. I.e. what they had to do to survive. The men in Iraq are doing their jobs, so does that make them a war criminals?

What YOU consider one thing, would mean something COMPLETELY different from ME. See below.

They are in context to me. What you consider important and what I do are two different things.

Obviously...you should start thinking of stuff that doesnt affect you directly..

I do, but when the above stated reasons are THE MOST important, why would I overlook them?

first purple heart...
"The Batman crew encountered some Viet Cong, engaged in a firefight, and Kerry was slightly wounded on his arm"

Selective reporting at it's finest. He recieved a (2mm) SCRATCH on his arm and repeatedly pursued a medal not even his commanding officer thought he deserved.

and by definition any wound inflicted by instruments of war deserves a purple heart.

So if I stub my toe on a tank in Iraq, I get a purple heart?

Seriously, what do you guys want from Kerry? Would you rather want 3 of his limbs to be blown off in order to earn the purple hearts? Do you want him to be shot in 3 of his internal organs? Do you want him to be shot in the head 3 times?

Haven't you consider the possibility that the Purple Hearts count for minor wounds also? I know that Kerry did not obtain major wounds, or otherwise he would be all fucked up looking and crippled. The main problem is that Kerry is trying make it sound like the Purple Hearts are the best thing in the world. But all they really mean is that he obtained 3 minor wounds. It doesn't mean he was in a near death situation. (But being in Vietnam and being shot and putting you life in danger is basically a near-death situation, unlike staying in the National Guard and not going to war, such as you know who.)

You guys really have a excessively high expectation of Kerry. That's why you make everything sound so bad for him. You expect him to do something really great, but when it doesn't, he's a fucking moron and deserves to die!!! The opposite goes for Bush too. You expect him to do shitty for certain things and when it actually goes well, IT'S THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD!!!!!1111 Why don't you compare the candidates on equal levels for once? For example, compare Kerry's and Bush's military experience on equal levels.

There's a difference though. Going straight into it, thereby crippling the auto industry. Slow to medium improvement is good, saying you have two years to come up with technology that isn't currently feasible is bad.

isnt feasable??? they have cars running on hydrogen fuel cells already, (not to mention all the electric hybrids....) it is all too feasible.

rifles dont have pistol grips.

No, it says ANYTHING that can be used as a grip, not anything EXCEPT for semi-pistol grip stocks. There is also a fore-GRIP...

all a fore grip is, is a pistol grip on the front...most dont have that either OMG!1!!!1!1.....

Because you constantly ignore or go around plain and reasonable views. He called himself and his fellow soldiers war criminals for doing their job. I.e. what they had to do to survive. The men in Iraq are doing their jobs, so does that make them a war criminals?

No I dont, your views are unreasonable....He viewed the Vietnam war as a criminal action, just as we viewed much of ww2 many soldiers in prison camps were convicted as war criminals for "doing their job".

I do, but when the above stated reasons are THE MOST important, why would I overlook them?

whatever, if you say they are the most important I guess they are......

first purple heart...
"The Batman crew encountered some Viet Cong, engaged in a firefight, and Kerry was slightly wounded on his arm"

Selective reporting at it's finest. He recieved a (2mm) SCRATCH on his arm and repeatedly pursued a medal not even his commanding officer thought he deserved.

lol, I got that from vietnam vets against kerry, its the official report.

and by definition any wound inflicted by instruments of war deserves a purple heart.

So if I stub my toe on a tank in Iraq, I get a purple heart?

thats not by definition a wound.

At 10/17/04 12:46 AM, afliXion wrote:

Kerry IS dumb. The Bush having an IQ of 91 thing is a lie, and a fake. Who made that site that gives it?

Read my post which was 4 above yours...

I say both Bush and Kerry suck!

There should be better candidates for each party.

At 10/17/04 02:51 PM, PotatoeMan wrote: isnt feasable??? they have cars running on hydrogen fuel cells already, (not to mention all the electric hybrids....) it is all too feasible.

The cars that currently use that technolgy have little to no support and only work on little 2000 pound cars. NOT a Super duty that weighs 9,000 pounds and is expected to pull 15,000.

rifles dont have pistol grips.

Actually, mine does, and if you knew anything about guns, you would know that semi-pistol grip and pistol grip stocks are prevenlent. sp*

all a fore grip is, is a pistol grip on the front...most dont have that either OMG!1!!!1!1.....

Listen, you can GRIP a fore-grip... get it? It says anything you can use as a grip not anything except for whatever potatoeman decides is prevelent. sp* The law WOULD incompass ALL semi autos. Get over it.

No I dont, your views are unreasonable....He viewed the Vietnam war as a criminal action, just as we viewed much of ww2 many soldiers in prison camps were convicted as war criminals for "doing their job".

He was wrong in his actions. Ever hear of not shooting the messenger. If he had a frigging problem, he should have blamed the top, not gone... all the men i served with were war criminals. That's BS.

whatever, if you say they are the most important I guess they are......

*Sigh*... Look, open your eyes and READ. I said earlier, TO ME.

lol, I got that from vietnam vets against kerry, its the official report.

You might want to look into it more.

thats not by definition a wound.

If it's permanent it is. What if I scratch my arm on a bayonet while sitting in my tent and playing with it, or burn myself in the kitchen.

At 10/17/04 04:59 PM, Spookshow wrote:

At 10/17/04 02:51 PM, PotatoeMan wrote: isnt feasable??? they have cars running on hydrogen fuel cells already, (not to mention all the electric hybrids....) it is all too feasible.

The cars that currently use that technolgy have little to no support and only work on little 2000 pound cars. NOT a Super duty that weighs 9,000 pounds and is expected to pull 15,000.

I doubt that they expect it to get 30mpg when its pulling 15,000...and I am pretty sure within a few years you could easily alter the current functioning systems for a heavier vehicle..

rifles dont have pistol grips.

I dont know where this came from I was typing kind of fast...

Actually, mine does, and if you knew anything about guns, you would know that semi-pistol grip and pistol grip stocks are prevenlent. sp*

Listen, you can GRIP a fore-grip... get it? It says anything you can use as a grip not anything except for whatever potatoeman decides is prevelent. sp* The law WOULD incompass ALL semi autos. Get over it.

Even if it did, they cannot TAKE your guns away only prevent you from buying new ones..

He was wrong in his actions. Ever hear of not shooting the messenger. If he had a frigging problem, he should have blamed the top, not gone... all the men i served with were war criminals. That's BS.

You are twisting the meaning of his words...he was blaming the top just in a complicated manner...listen the speech's that he gave over...(he was a kid anyways...)

*Sigh*... Look, open your eyes and READ. I said earlier, TO ME.

"the above stated reasons are THE MOST important"

You might want to look into it more.

all they do is call him a liar....

At 10/17/04 05:40 PM, PotatoeMan wrote: I doubt that they expect it to get 30mpg when its pulling 15,000...and I am pretty sure within a few years you could easily alter the current functioning systems for a heavier vehicle..

But it still weighs 9,000 pounds and again, there is NO support. I've worked in a garage before, NO one but maybe 2 people at the dealership is capable of working on them.

I dont know where this came from I was typing kind of fast...

Ok...

Even if it did, they cannot TAKE your guns away only prevent you from buying new ones..

and new parts, and new magazines and even REPLACEMENT parts.

You are twisting the meaning of his words...he was blaming the top just in a complicated manner...listen the speech's that he gave over...(he was a kid anyways...)

Doesn't matter. He still said them. If he blaimed the top, it wasn't hard to say :Kennedy is at fault, NOT the GIs."

all they do is call him a liar....

That's because he twists words and does lie.

At 10/16/04 12:37 PM, -Anthony- wrote: So, if either, who do you support?

who are you asking? me?

i am one of the few that is truly independant, i dont really care who is the president. i do however, think this whole insult session is rather useless. You may vote for who you may, and as human nature has proved many a time, the more someone fights you, the more you believe your stance... so we may as well shut up, vote for who we will, and accept the next president as the next president.

:im wondering why your edgucation is on a downfall because bush has raised standards and because of that more people are going into colleges and getting better jobs. it shows a 45-50% increase.

Careful, as a mathematician, i will remind you that statistics can say alot. if one state has a HUGE increase in educational standards, not to pick on Texas, but we can safely pick there as they have much to work up to, then several other states go down a smaller but still decent percentage, the statistics can still say that the increase is larger. But since the deficiet in education affects more then the increase does, is it really helping education? the answer would be no.

Second, a warning to those of you providing sources. While it is absolutely AWESOME that you have found the time to research before you talk, it may be prudent to quote more than one source, as they may be biased, or as the case sometimes is on the i-net... completely made up.

this has been a friendly safety reminder by KR