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Everyone is going on and on baout how Lego might not want to have been associated with Newgrounds or how this is copyright BS. Tom will you please post the letter and tell why Lego did this.
At 10/13/04 05:39 PM, jonthomson wrote:At 10/13/04 04:45 PM, Cyberxion wrote: Though, even if you take everything you said into consideration, who is Lego to regulate what you do with thier product once you've purchased it?So by that rationale, I'm free to take the CD I bought today, rip it and place the resulting tracks on my website. That argument isn't relevant at all here.
You're argument isn't really relevent. CD's are supposed to be listened to so if you put it on you're website then it's like people can listen to the CD for free without buying it. Lego's are supposed to be played if you make a movie or a flash game out of Legos and let people see it for free then that isn't like letting them play with actuall Lego's for free.
At 10/13/04 08:33 PM, MC_Booga wrote: I looked around the Lego website, and I am now positive it is an issue with using the company and product name 'Lego' in the name of the submission. According to #5 on the legal notice, "The trademarks, and logos, displayed on the Site, are trademarks of the LEGO Group. Nothing contained on the Site should be construed as granting, by implication, estoppel, or otherwise, any license or right to use any trademark displayed on the Site without the written permission of the LEGO Group or such third party that may own the trademarks displayed on the Site. Regarding use of the trademarks, see Intellectual Property Rights."
LEGO is a trademark of the company, and they don't want people confusing a non-child friendly website to be related to the campany. All Tom needed to do was put a small disclaimer and remove Lego from the collections page and titles of the submissions, I'm sure.
Hah. Well, that makes sence! It pays to have the whole story laid out for you, I suppose. I wasn't exactly up NG's ass on this matter. I didn't like the way Lego was conducting themselves. Now it seems that they totally had precedence to ask Tom to remove the offending flash from the site. Hmmn...
At 10/14/04 08:49 AM, Father_Time wrote:At 10/13/04 05:39 PM, jonthomson wrote:You're argument isn't really relevent. CD's are supposed to be listened to so if you put it on you're website then it's like people can listen to the CD for free without buying it. Lego's are supposed to be played if you make a movie or a flash game out of Legos and let people see it for free then that isn't like letting them play with actuall Lego's for free.
So by that rationale, I'm free to take the CD I bought today, rip it and place the resulting tracks on my website. That argument isn't relevant at all here.
Thanks. Couldn't have put it better myself. There's a world of difference between the two actions, and to even attempt to draw a direct correlation between the two is simply stupid....
At 10/13/04 08:42 PM, TWDarkflame wrote: I dought very much that this decision came from high up in the company.
I don't know exactly *how* Tom was confronted, but if the
exchange was strictly by email it's possible he's been had.
"They are an inquisitive race, always anxious to pry into other mens' lives, but never ready to correct their own." -Augustine of Hippo
At 10/13/04 08:42 PM, TWDarkflame wrote: Has anyone actualy done anything usefull?
Like finding out Legos email address to write too.
I tried, but im not expert in these things..their darn java comment box has such a short text limit its useless...and i cant work out the real email.
Please,rather then going "stuff you lego" and "ill chuck all my kits away", we can try to put up a cilivilised protest.
I dought very much that this decision came from high up in the company.
You're right we really shouldn't be arguing with each other over this and just saying f u lego because that doesn't help. The most civilized thing we can do is to make a petetion and send it to Lego.
At 10/14/04 10:21 AM, mortalcoil wrote:At 10/13/04 08:42 PM, TWDarkflame wrote: I dought very much that this decision came from high up in the company.Some complaints about websites don't appear to come from a
legitimate source at all: http://www.bof.nl/
For those who don't read Dutch, a native speaker comments on
the experiment: http://golb.org/
I don't know exactly *how* Tom was confronted, but if the
exchange was strictly by email it's possible he's been had.
Holy cow I went to the site and you are probably right. What if the stuff to bring down Lego movies wasn't from lego and was from another jealous site... that makes a lot more sence then Lego trying to bring down the mvoies. we should put back up the lego movies and see what happens. if we get another e-mail we should try to finmd out if its really from Lego.
Well its now or never ! Ive just got one thing to say (one long thing) Im not a fan of Lego movies but this does not change the fact that im pretty mad . Tom i understand you deleting the movies lawsuits can be a scary thing but as the head of newgrounds people look to you to stand up for them and there submissions some people spent months on those movies and no longer had backups of the movies oyu could have at least warned them about there loss, but enough about you I dont blame you for a second all im saying is that its time we stand up here at newgrounds ive been a newgrounds visitor for years and have been a faithfull member for quite awhile and even thought the whole esrb thing got to me at least it didnt majorly effect NG. But LegoMen where a large part of newgrounds they brought new members and a whole new fan base. i wish you could bring the movies back but i know you cant so please give us the e-mail to Lego and from the people who sent you the e-mail. we here at NG stand up for what we belive in and wont let this end this easy and even if they wont listen there gonna have a whole lot of spam to go thru and i mean a lot ill dedicate to at least sending 50 e-mails even if they are just copies with different subject lines :). But Tom if there is just one favor I ask Please let this be the last thing that wind against NG I loved watching Ng become what it is today i dont wanna watch it fall apart
It may indeed be a hoax, i have heard of many such case's before in fact.
Of course, thanks to how everyone has been so wonderfully poliete and mature about this [/sarcasm]
I wouldnt be suppised if any appeal to lego would fall though :-/
At the very least it should be tried.
Please, i have sent two emails off already, can other people do some?
At least make our voice heard.
At 10/11/04 04:17 PM, TomFulp wrote:
Lego didn't seem to appreciate the work by fans here on Newgrounds. I had a nasty confrontation with their lawyers, who wanted the Lego stuff removed.
So I deleted over 100 Lego submissions. I did regret it afterwards, but now it's done. We had some really great submissions, and rarely were they crude in nature.
That's too bad. There really was some great stuff too.
legos...why would they even be stupid enough to get things promoting their product off of a site that has billions and maybe more viewers. Plus its promoting for free where most sites are payed to promote their products. It would just be saving them money cause despite that many viewers here are adult there are many younger viewers too that might be interested in lego after viewing some of these sumbissions and just might go out and buy some.
you know, i dont like to seem bitching or anything, but rather then complaining to eachover and stateing the obvious facts we should complain to THEM and state the obvious facts.
A company isnt just a bunch of lawyers you know.
Anyone that cares about our right to submit lego flashs please send a polite leter here;
33 Bath Road
If your stuck for inspiration just clone my leter i did a few pages ago.
This is an easy fight to win if we mearly try.
What I find really stupid about this is that... people pay for their toys, and they are to play with and you can do what you want with them... So, why the hell do they want all the lego content removed??? Its down right stupid.
isnt it possible that all these whatver people from lego are monitoring this thread and gathering info about us all to put together into one thing that will destroy us... something like that anyways.
K'Nex rules! Lego sucks!
using ShamelessPlug; NapePhysicsEngine.advertise();
man thats sad damn lego whats the point its gives them more costumers it and l know it made me buy more to try and make the sets of some of the movies and some of my friends get into it because of that anywhy l have to post it on my website now LEGO=LAMO LEGO+LAMO=LAGO
LE AT GUYS OTTO
a shop l know
The main reason the Lego thing happened:
Lawyers are ridiculous when it comes to issues of intellectual property. Employees within the company probably appreciate the work, and the company itself probably appreciate it. It's a matter of marketing not wanting to be assosciated with NG, with the concept that legos are "kid friendly" and thus not appropriate for use here, and issues about having the logo. While others may have done this as a prank/spoof, odds are this came from Lego's lawyers (Disney and other large corporations can be the same way).
This is because current copyright/patent laws are overly protectionistic and because large companies can easily put financial pressure on individuals with the threat of lawsuit to cow them into giving up their rights to freedom of expression. Half of the film and its contents should be covered under fair use and laws related to freedom of expression. Unfortunately because of laws re: patents/copyrights being written as they are, companies are allowed to take this kind of action and do so regularly.
Charles Schulz's lawyers (acting without his knowledge) had a farm owner in NY (I think) had the farmer remove a painting he'd done of snoopy on his barn, because it violated Schulz's intellectual property rights. The farmer was NOT making money off of it, nor was it causing any financial harm to Mr Schultz. But lawyers will be lawyers, if they smell an opprotunity to profit from exploiting the letter (Rather Than the Spirit) of the law they will.
It's been my experience that many companies appreciate the fans and thus are hesitant to discourage them, but the lawyers are insistent that there remains a risk that their product could be lost if they don't act to protect their copyright.
In part as current copyright/patent laws stand we will be having things like Disney rereleasing its classics every 2 - 3 years for the next X hundred years. Patent/Copyright laws were NEVER intended to extend as long as they have been (will be) and they are being intentionally extended through the creation of "new content" featuring the original copyrights BEYOND their intended life expectancy in ways the lawmakers never intended.
This trend is a growing threat to NON corporate freedom of expression and individual right to hold copyrights as a whole. It should've been addressed in the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Instead the DMCA has further eroded individual rights to free speech and enshrined abusive copyright practices into law. Existing Copyright and Patent law no longer offers equal protection to individuals as it does to corporations and franchises and represents a threat to our general rights and freedoms in the long term.
As Newgrounds grows, expect to see/face more of these idiotic/repressive attempts to control freedom of speech.
I strongly recommend any of you upset by this Lego issue to write your congressman/senator or equivalent protesting the unfair representation existing copyright laws offer to non-corporate entites/individuals. The rising costs of registering copyrightst and patents threatens to take the ability to create new ideas/technologies or creative works Away from individuals and destroy the fundamentals of the American Dream.
Unless we take action now to prevent the further erosion of individual rights when it comes to creating content/patents we may lose the right/ability to do so entirely within the next 100-200 years. Corporations and certain lawyers who support these ideas are working hard to take these rights away from the average everyday person (in many insidious ways). The death of freedom of expression is coming and may pass without any of us realizing its happened - if we do nothing. Along with that we'll lose the freedom and rights associated with being able to think for ourselves and we'll become nothing more than complete consumer wh**es enslaved to corporations that have more power than our governments do. Watch your respective governments closely as they may seek to distract the general populace as a whole (or even decieve them into believing what's being done is just, right and moral) while they push through that kind of legislation.
At 10/11/04 04:53 PM, MasterLink1987 wrote: Damn, they're were some good lego movies. Oh well, fuck them and their shity bionicles.
I like bionicles alot. More then legos so please don't insult them.
At 10/11/04 05:00 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote: Bah, some of those lego things were good. >:(
Lets boycott them! TO THE BOYCOTTMOBILES!