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Vincoid
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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-14 05:58:58 Reply

At 5/10/12 07:48 PM, Glides wrote:

That's my only hope. I need to get rich.

If that's how you think about it, it just might be. On the other hand, shallow attracts shallow. You decide that you think money is more important than your personlaity and that's exactly what the girls you attract will think as well. Don't expect to get much joy out of it.

That's why I tend to avoid women that I like. Interacting with them in any way is a major no-no. And to my credit, I don't stalk them.

Seems like a great technique. In what way exactly does ignoring women get you anything? You might want to focus on improving those areas you're bad at instead of ignoring they are lacking. You won't be feeling genuine happiness unless you do so.

Confidence is an acquired trait. So is insecurity. I was the unlucky person who got the latter. I hope to change that.

That's not true. Insecurity is not actively acquired. Insecurity is the lack of confidence. Confidence requires work, insecurity is what you get when you don't put in the necessary work.
For instance, you claim to be unlucky because you're insecure. The truth is that you're insecure because you let fear get the best of you and are not willing to take the steps you need to take in order to become confident. You behave as though you are a victim but what you really are is unwilling to face risks. You'd rather sit and wait in the insecurity and fear than risk having a more fulfilling life.


Another problem that I've only recently become aware of is that everyone in my high school thinks that I'm gay. I'm obviously not if I have girl troubles. The reason, according to classmates, is that I've never been with a woman, and never had a girlfriend, so people automatically assume that I'm into dudes instead of realizing that I simply have no skills with the ladies. This would also explain why so many men hit on me. No, I'm not homophobic, but it explains a lot. So maybe then they either think that I'm not interested, or are completely aware of my lack of sexual experience. So yeah.

That's not a problem. Yet again you take no responsibility for who you are. You claim that your classmates should realize that you have no skills with women. I say it's you who needs to realize that and has to do something about it, not to blame your classmates. You'll only end up blaming others, thinking stuff like; "Girls don't see me as a potential boyfriend because everyone thinks I'm gay", the truth being you simply lack skill and the willingness to do something about it.

"A pessimist is someone who complains about the wind,
an optimist says it will get better,
a realist adjusts the sails."

Looking at the comments you make, you come across as if you think yourself to be a realist. A realist, however, makes do with what he has. He seeks opportunity instead of blaming others for the misfortunes in his life. All you do is blame everything but yourself for the things that happen in your life. The truth is that you are in control of it all. You control your own actions as well as how you respond to the actions of others. When you stop blaming everything else and take responsibility for yourself, you can start living your life.
All you do now is bitch about how people are wrong to have hope, to take steps to accomplish the things you are afraid of doing yourself and rubbing it in their faces once it goes wrong. Just because it goes wrong doesn't mean it's something they shouldn't do. Trying is the only way to succeed. You do nothing yet believe yourself to be better than the rest as if you have knowledge they don't posess. The sad thing is, everyone is trying to move forward, to actually enjoy their life. All you do is wallow in pity and try to get others to do the same so you won't feel bad for doing nothing about your "misfortunes".

Start living your life and if you're too afraid of doing so, at least let others try and live theirs.

--------

At 5/10/12 09:21 PM, TheTrooper5 wrote:

Signed the ACTUAL me.

I like your letter. It's honest, it doesn't try to force her to do anything. I think it takes great character to completely step back, let someone take their rightful decision and be at peace with it.

Anyway, I text her on sunday telling her I needed to give her something important, she said 'I won't meet you unless you tell me what it is', I told her, she told me to put it in the mail box in our University college common room. I know she's taken it as it's no longer there (Well, I hope it's her), but I've not heard from her yet, and I suppose I'm just being rather stressed or impatient, or worried she's apathetic about the whole thing.
I hate to sound cocky or arrogant, but I know that if I can just talk to her face to face, then she'll see how honest and serious I am being. I feel so incredibly guilty about the whole thing, and I suppose I'm desperate to sort it out and 'fight back' against my depression and salvage the damage it's caused.

There are two things you must understand. First off all, the fight against your depression is between you and your depression. This girl is not a part of that fight and not a way to win. Your depression is internal, she is an external factor, meaning she can't cure your internal feelings. You might think she can, but she can only numb it, hiding it from you, only for it to rise again inconveniently. You'll have to deal with this depression by yourself, without her.

Secondly, realize this is hard for her as well. She has or had feelings for you, she got hurt and now you're trying to make it all right. It's only natural for her to be hesitant. She could be afraid of getting hurt again, she might be afraid that you're not being honest with her, that it's an excuse to get her back.
Women often freak out more than men, so imagine how she might feel. Not only about this, but about everything that's going on in her life. Where most men divide their problems into different sections, feeling happy about one thing and bad about the other, most women mix their emotions about everything, resulting in either something good or bad. This whole situation might feel 50 times worse due to other things going on for her. Let her sort everything out for herself and she'll get to your letter eventually. Sure, the result might not end up to be what you wanted, but that's something you'll have to accept, for your sake and hers.

------

At 5/11/12 08:44 PM, jjjkuk wrote:

This right here. Instead of constantly worrying, go do something productive. If it seems like it's well set up or that she's an easy target, don't get so stressed and just go for it with something simple.

Effort. It's what you will lack when you stop caring. You say you should do something productive, yet the only way to be productive is to care about something. When you're insecure, caring for something can cause you to feel fear. However, when you're confident, caring for something will inspire you to give it everything you've got, to make the best of it and to achieve what you want to achieve.

I don't see why guys think that they will get a girl who they genuinely want and like by doing little to nothing. Getting the girl you want requires effort, it requires you to actually want to her, to desire her. Only then can you create the same emotions in her. Attraction as well as love is reciprocal. Not being willing to put in effort will get you exactly the same thing.

Think about it. You aren't willing to put in constant effort in order to get a girl that isn't interested in you. Why would a girl be willing to do so when you don't put in any effort?


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Glides
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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-14 15:35:27 Reply

At 5/14/12 05:58 AM, Vincoid wrote:
At 5/10/12 07:48 PM, Glides wrote: That's my only hope. I need to get rich.
If that's how you think about it, it just might be. On the other hand, shallow attracts shallow. You decide that you think money is more important than your personlaity and that's exactly what the girls you attract will think as well. Don't expect to get much joy out of it.

More of a sarcastic statement than anything else. My bad.


That's why I tend to avoid women that I like. Interacting with them in any way is a major no-no. And to my credit, I don't stalk them.
Seems like a great technique. In what way exactly does ignoring women get you anything? You might want to focus on improving those areas you're bad at instead of ignoring they are lacking. You won't be feeling genuine happiness unless you do so.

I blame the fight-or-flight reflex. The majority of experiences I've had with women I like are negative, therefore, if I have any sort of attraction, I stay away. It's strange because in all other cases, I'm about normal in social interactivity. I'm not really that weird shifty kid in the back, I'm more of the relatively quiet one in the middle.

Confidence is an acquired trait. So is insecurity. I was the unlucky person who got the latter. I hope to change that.
That's not true. Insecurity is not actively acquired. Insecurity is the lack of confidence. Confidence requires work, insecurity is what you get when you don't put in the necessary work.

I mean that some people seem to be naturally confident. Girls like them, they like girls, everything works out. It's easier for some people is what I really mean, and I am not one of those people.

For instance, you claim to be unlucky because you're insecure. The truth is that you're insecure because you let fear get the best of you and are not willing to take the steps you need to take in order to become confident. You behave as though you are a victim but what you really are is unwilling to face risks. You'd rather sit and wait in the insecurity and fear than risk having a more fulfilling life.

Well that's sort of the same thing, right? Kind of like bungee jumping, it could be fun, but it's very likely that you'll break your neck.


Another problem that I've only recently become aware of is that everyone in my high school thinks that I'm gay. I'm obviously not if I have girl troubles. The reason, according to classmates, is that I've never been with a woman, and never had a girlfriend, so people automatically assume that I'm into dudes instead of realizing that I simply have no skills with the ladies. This would also explain why so many men hit on me. No, I'm not homophobic, but it explains a lot. So maybe then they either think that I'm not interested, or are completely aware of my lack of sexual experience. So yeah.
That's not a problem. Yet again you take no responsibility for who you are. You claim that your classmates should realize that you have no skills with women. I say it's you who needs to realize that and has to do something about it, not to blame your classmates. You'll only end up blaming others, thinking stuff like; "Girls don't see me as a potential boyfriend because everyone thinks I'm gay", the truth being you simply lack skill and the willingness to do something about it.

I don't blame my classmates. I merely think it's kind of a strange jump from "He never had a girlfriend" to "Clearly he's gay." I've done the same thing myself to others, so I can't pretend that I'm wholly innocent here. This particular statement I don't get. Where's the lack in responsibility in a belief other people have about you?

"A pessimist is someone who complains about the wind,
an optimist says it will get better,
a realist adjusts the sails."

I read that quote yesterday. And I really want to be a realist.

Looking at the comments you make, you come across as if you think yourself to be a realist. A realist, however, makes do with what he has. He seeks opportunity instead of blaming others for the misfortunes in his life. All you do is blame everything but yourself for the things that happen in your life. The truth is that you are in control of it all. You control your own actions as well as how you respond to the actions of others. When you stop blaming everything else and take responsibility for yourself, you can start living your life.

Oh no, I know it's my fault. I can't sit around saying "Oh, well clearly its all THEIR fault that I can't be with them." And it's obvious that I have no skill or ability, as you've stated. I'm perfectly willing, but you can't run without legs. Bad metaphor, as you could use a prosthetic leg, but you get the idea.

All you do now is bitch about how people are wrong to have hope, to take steps to accomplish the things you are afraid of doing yourself and rubbing it in their faces once it goes wrong. Just because it goes wrong doesn't mean it's something they shouldn't do. Trying is the only way to succeed. You do nothing yet believe yourself to be better than the rest as if you have knowledge they don't posess. The sad thing is, everyone is trying to move forward, to actually enjoy their life. All you do is wallow in pity and try to get others to do the same so you won't feel bad for doing nothing about your "misfortunes".

I have been trying that. I think the "wallowing in self pity and ruining everyone's day" is more inadvertent than anything else. I've noticed that I've done that in trying to respond to some other posts here. And thankfully, this isn't all the time. I can actually be quite a happy person when I'm not in this particular conflict. The "doing nothing" is mostly accurate, but I don't really have all that high opinion of myself. I have plenty of knowledge in heartbreak, rejection, that sort of thing, and it's made me apathetic towards any kind of romantic interaction. Whenever I see people kiss or a trailer for a romantic comedy, I literally feel repulsed. I'm good at hiding that, obviously. So I'm more apathetic than self-absorbed, which leads to me doing nothing to fix the problem, with the confidence that any endeavor I make will fail. So I'm not trying to make everyone miserable, I'm just a little too experienced in dishing out tough love. Does any of that make sense, because I look like a monster from your perspective.

Start living your life and if you're too afraid of doing so, at least let others try and live theirs.

Glides is done with his post.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-16 22:45:48 Reply

Well my new relationship just ended.

We hung out and talked often, everything seemed to be going well from my point of view. For the last couple of days she hasn't been talking much. I just assumed that she was busy.

Today she contacted me and said that she realized that she "wasn't ready for a boyfriend" and yeah. I'll just past my side of the chat here if you don't mind, it should be understandable without her side. It seems as if she's already become overwhelmed with anxiety even though it's only been a few weeks and we haven't had many opportunities to see each other. I'm wracking my brains trying to figure out what I did wrong.

I could tell that you were uncomfortable but I want to be the one to help you through that. That's why I tried to be clear about there being no pressure. I know that we didn't really start talking to each other again until fairly recently but I still fell like I've known you for a long time... I enjoyed hanging out with you and thought that you were getting better. We've really only been on one date you know. I understand if you don't want to but I'd really like to give it more time. We can take things more slowly, or as slow as you'd like really. But don't you have to start a relationship at some point? Eventually? I'm going to be going off to college soon and this is the first time that I've had any sort of feelings for someone that were mutual. If it really makes you miserable then I understand, I just want to tell you that those feelings aren't rational at all. I think that after a while you'd realize that being in a relationship isn't all that bad. But yeah, I know what you're saying... at any rate I'd still like to remain close friends and keep in touch. If you still think that you can't handle it... I'm sorry that it made you miserable, I just don't understand why. You have nothing to prove to me and I wouldn't make you do anything that you don't want to do... but I guess that this relationship counts in that case. and for right now I don't really care about other girls. I never thought that you were weird or awkward, just a little shy. I wish that I could make you feel better.

At the end of the conversation, she still said that she was miserable and would be as so long as she was in a relationship. She said that she would remain friends but that didn't necessarily mean that we would ever get back together. So it's over.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-16 23:20:27 Reply


I could tell that you were uncomfortable but I want to be the one to help you through that. That's why I tried to be clear about there being no pressure. I know that we didn't really start talking to each other again until fairly recently but I still fell like I've known you for a long time... I enjoyed hanging out with you and thought that you were getting better. We've really only been on one date you know. I understand if you don't want to but I'd really like to give it more time. We can take things more slowly, or as slow as you'd like really. But don't you have to start a relationship at some point? Eventually? I'm going to be going off to college soon and this is the first time that I've had any sort of feelings for someone that were mutual. If it really makes you miserable then I understand, I just want to tell you that those feelings aren't rational at all. I think that after a while you'd realize that being in a relationship isn't all that bad. But yeah, I know what you're saying... at any rate I'd still like to remain close friends and keep in touch. If you still think that you can't handle it... I'm sorry that it made you miserable, I just don't understand why. You have nothing to prove to me and I wouldn't make you do anything that you don't want to do... but I guess that this relationship counts in that case. and for right now I don't really care about other girls. I never thought that you were weird or awkward, just a little shy. I wish that I could make you feel better.

At the risk of getting my ass chewed out by Vincoid for the third time, I'm not gonna say much. But the monologue, pretty as it is, is a bit excessive for a one date thing, right? Makes you look overeager, and I know girls hate that. Not a criticism or anything, since I've done the exact same thing before. Just don't be overly emotional, that's the best I can say.


Glides is done with his post.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-17 08:02:59 Reply

At 5/14/12 03:35 PM, Glides wrote: I blame the fight-or-flight reflex. The majority of experiences I've had with women I like are negative, therefore, if I have any sort of attraction, I stay away. It's strange because in all other cases, I'm about normal in social interactivity. I'm not really that weird shifty kid in the back, I'm more of the relatively quiet one in the middle.

I understand that, but the only thing that's ever going to change that is the exact thing you fear; conversation. The way to do that is by becoming aware of your mistakes. In this case you're already aware of what you're doing, so you can consciously break this pattern.
I know you won't like it, but nothing's ever going to change unless you risk getting hurt again.


Well that's sort of the same thing, right? Kind of like bungee jumping, it could be fun, but it's very likely that you'll break your neck.

Depends on what kind of risk we're talking about. You can't compare a physical risk with the emotional risk or risk of effort that you put in interacting with a woman. All you lose is time and you might feel bad for a while, but you won't lose your life and you'll gain experience.
You'll have to gain that experience in order to grow, in order to achieve. You can't expect to have instant success (even natural strike out from time to time) without practice. You already have the experience, now you need to realize you can learn from it. All you need it the right state of mind and knowledge.


I don't blame my classmates. I merely think it's kind of a strange jump from "He never had a girlfriend" to "Clearly he's gay." I've done the same thing myself to others, so I can't pretend that I'm wholly innocent here. This particular statement I don't get. Where's the lack in responsibility in a belief other people have about you?

There's not. I'm saying you're not taking responsibility for the outcome of your actions by using their belief as an excuse. I'll explain this in more detail at the bottom of this post.

Oh no, I know it's my fault. I can't sit around saying "Oh, well clearly its all THEIR fault that I can't be with them." And it's obvious that I have no skill or ability, as you've stated. I'm perfectly willing, but you can't run without legs. Bad metaphor, as you could use a prosthetic leg, but you get the idea.

I get it. But tell me this, are you only willing to run, or are you also willing to make sure you have legs to run on?

There's a lot of people willing to experience the end result, but very view who want to do the effort to get there.

I have been trying that. I think the "wallowing in self pity and ruining everyone's day" is more inadvertent than anything else. I've noticed that I've done that in trying to respond to some other posts here. And thankfully, this isn't all the time. I can actually be quite a happy person when I'm not in this particular conflict. The "doing nothing" is mostly accurate, but I don't really have all that high opinion of myself. I have plenty of knowledge in heartbreak, rejection, that sort of thing, and it's made me apathetic towards any kind of romantic interaction. Whenever I see people kiss or a trailer for a romantic comedy, I literally feel repulsed. I'm good at hiding that, obviously. So I'm more apathetic than self-absorbed, which leads to me doing nothing to fix the problem, with the confidence that any endeavor I make will fail. So I'm not trying to make everyone miserable, I'm just a little too experienced in dishing out tough love. Does any of that make sense, because I look like a monster from your perspective.

Don't worry, you don't. I'm simply trying to find out what motivates you to act the way you do. In doing so I make quite a bit of assumptions to find out exactly what you're experiencing and thinking. Most of these assumptions are based on how I acted before I started changing my life, as well as what I've learned most guys to be like in the past 5 years.

You see, I was the same when it came to bad experiences. I've been shot down more times than I can count, becoming desperate at a certain point. I had exactly the right qualities for a relationship, but none to get someone to be interested in them. The constant failure made me bitter, stopped me from taking action only to keep fantasizing about how it could be. I did nothing about it, wasn't even aware that I should. All I did was wonder why nobody like me.

I was desperate for a solution but did nothing to find it. Untill one day when it presented itself to me. From that moment I was fascinated with it, did everything I could to learn as much as possible. I tried helping others, wanting them to be able to learn what I had learned. To be able to make up your own mind instead of being a slave to your subconscious. To know there's knowledge out there for each and everyone to grab at any time.

This fascination, this passion, drive me to want to help everyone that's willing to open up and change. Change is impossible without the will to change. In you I saw someone willing to change but with a shield. The reason I asked all these questions, made all these assumptions and pretty much attacked you on who (who I thought) you are is because I wanted to make you think. I wanted to make you aware of your own feelings, thoughts and actions so you might find out things about yourself you might not have been aware of. I did so because I wanted to find out wether you act the way you do consciously or subconsciously.

So no, I don't think you're a monster. One might think that looking only at your very first posts, but I wanted to look beyond that and find out what the real you is like.

Having said that, I want to ask you something: knowing all this about yourself, why do you put up with the things you don't like about yourself? What keeps you from making a change?


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-17 18:44:03 Reply

Today the teachers rounded a bunch of Grade 11's and introduced us to a lot of the new areas/schedules/rooms and ect. to show us what we would be doing next year and there were about groups of 20 or so going in at a time to take a little tour and be partnered off to learn this new stuff. One girl I couldn't stop looking at she was really funny and so full and energy, like a little spark. I kept practicing my football/soccer skills which I admit was more of showing off than anything but she kept admiring my height and my skills and she was just funny and calm at the same time. At break time I had no money so we shared a lunch in front of Subway together and she was just so pleasant to be around and I admit I asked her so many questions about herself she probably got annoyed.

Finally she told me to add her on Facebook after telling me her first and last name and said she was going to her cousin's wedding in Italy that night and would not be returning to school until next year in Grade 12. She left and me, like the idiot I am just said goodbye and didn't even ask how to spell her first or last name nor did I even tell her my last name. Normally I'm patient enough to wait to see friends until the next year but I can't stop thinking about her and really want to chat with her some more.


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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-17 22:38:15 Reply


I understand that, but the only thing that's ever going to change that is the exact thing you fear; conversation. The way to do that is by becoming aware of your mistakes. In this case you're already aware of what you're doing, so you can consciously break this pattern.
I know you won't like it, but nothing's ever going to change unless you risk getting hurt again.

Well, you can't start a conversation with a total stranger without looking like a creep. Well, unless you have amazing social skills, which I don't have in this instance. So that's sort of the hurdle there: I try to talk to a girl, she thinks I'm a creep. And I know enough body language to know that.

Depends on what kind of risk we're talking about. You can't compare a physical risk with the emotional risk or risk of effort that you put in interacting with a woman. All you lose is time and you might feel bad for a while, but you won't lose your life and you'll gain experience.
You'll have to gain that experience in order to grow, in order to achieve. You can't expect to have instant success (even natural strike out from time to time) without practice. You already have the experience, now you need to realize you can learn from it. All you need it the right state of mind and knowledge.

So by starting conversations out of the blue, then?

There's not. I'm saying you're not taking responsibility for the outcome of your actions by using their belief as an excuse. I'll explain this in more detail at the bottom of this post.

As an excuse to avoid pretty women, most certainly.

Oh no, I know it's my fault. I can't sit around saying "Oh, well clearly its all THEIR fault that I can't be with them." And it's obvious that I have no skill or ability, as you've stated. I'm perfectly willing, but you can't run without legs. Bad metaphor, as you could use a prosthetic leg, but you get the idea.
I get it. But tell me this, are you only willing to run, or are you also willing to make sure you have legs to run on?

Please explain this.

There's a lot of people willing to experience the end result, but very view who want to do the effort to get there.

By starting conversations with total strangers.

I have been trying that. I think the "wallowing in self pity and ruining everyone's day" is more inadvertent than anything else. I've noticed that I've done that in trying to respond to some other posts here. And thankfully, this isn't all the time. I can actually be quite a happy person when I'm not in this particular conflict. The "doing nothing" is mostly accurate, but I don't really have all that high opinion of myself. I have plenty of knowledge in heartbreak, rejection, that sort of thing, and it's made me apathetic towards any kind of romantic interaction. Whenever I see people kiss or a trailer for a romantic comedy, I literally feel repulsed. I'm good at hiding that, obviously. So I'm more apathetic than self-absorbed, which leads to me doing nothing to fix the problem, with the confidence that any endeavor I make will fail. So I'm not trying to make everyone miserable, I'm just a little too experienced in dishing out tough love. Does any of that make sense, because I look like a monster from your perspective.
Don't worry, you don't. I'm simply trying to find out what motivates you to act the way you do. In doing so I make quite a bit of assumptions to find out exactly what you're experiencing and thinking. Most of these assumptions are based on how I acted before I started changing my life, as well as what I've learned most guys to be like in the past 5 years.

I'm not alone, sadly enough. In fact, I'm a prodigy compared to some of these poor guys. I mean, I can talk to people just fine as long as I'm not attracted to them. Meaning that all guys my age, adults, and unattractive women or women I'm not attracted to are totally fine. These guys can't talk to ANYONE. And I feel for the poor sods. From my own observations, only a certain type of guy has any luck with the ladies. They all look about the same, act about the same, talk the same, and so on. I don't share any of those characteristics. I'm described as (I'm paraphrasing) "Nice enough body, but not cute enough to get laid." And I know that mature adults don't primarily rely on sex, but I'm a teenager and most of my peers are perverts. Whatcha gonna do?

You see, I was the same when it came to bad experiences. I've been shot down more times than I can count, becoming desperate at a certain point. I had exactly the right qualities for a relationship, but none to get someone to be interested in them. The constant failure made me bitter, stopped me from taking action only to keep fantasizing about how it could be. I did nothing about it, wasn't even aware that I should. All I did was wonder why nobody like me.

I'm the friendzoned guy. As Chris Rock said, "Because you never know."

I was desperate for a solution but did nothing to find it. Untill one day when it presented itself to me. From that moment I was fascinated with it, did everything I could to learn as much as possible. I tried helping others, wanting them to be able to learn what I had learned. To be able to make up your own mind instead of being a slave to your subconscious. To know there's knowledge out there for each and everyone to grab at any time.

Wait, so the solution presented itself to you? Was this solution a person, thing, or idea? So you got off easy, then. :P

This fascination, this passion, drive me to want to help everyone that's willing to open up and change. Change is impossible without the will to change. In you I saw someone willing to change but with a shield. The reason I asked all these questions, made all these assumptions and pretty much attacked you on who (who I thought) you are is because I wanted to make you think. I wanted to make you aware of your own feelings, thoughts and actions so you might find out things about yourself you might not have been aware of. I did so because I wanted to find out wether you act the way you do consciously or subconsciously.

So you're like Hitch with a far more optimistic attitude. Because that's one of my favorite movies. Around girls I'm like Kevin James if he was about a hundred pounds lighter. Very funny movie, you should watch it.


So no, I don't think you're a monster. One might think that looking only at your very first posts, but I wanted to look beyond that and find out what the real you is like.

The supposedly sexist person or the hateful asshole? I'm sexist towards the Kardashians, but not actual women.

Having said that, I want to ask you something: knowing all this about yourself, why do you put up with the things you don't like about yourself? What keeps you from making a change?

I would probably have to guess that it's due to that when it comes to "romance," it has been a very painful ride. I have been utterly humiliated by women before, from a very young age on. Called out in front of classmates, deliberately messing with my head before screwing me over, and asking me out on dates only to stand me up on purpose are only the tip of the iceberg. So eventually, around junior year or so, I completely checked out, and gave up completely. Didn't feel good at all, but at least I wouldn't suffer that kind of pain. So I've spent the last 2 years or so pretending to have moderate success with women to my acquaintances, and so on. I've gotten used to it. Finally the loneliness got to me and I started posting here.

That's about as emo as I'm getting. Explains why I'm so dismissive of most of your advice, right?


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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-17 23:21:01 Reply

A junior girl likes me. She's perrrrty. Any ideas on how to ask her out for a date?

I get confident enough until I am in her presence ready to ask. Then I stutter.

I have only ever asked a girl out once in my entire life.


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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-18 22:31:45 Reply

At 5/17/12 11:21 PM, Sequenced wrote: A junior girl likes me. She's perrrrty. Any ideas on how to ask her out for a date?

I get confident enough until I am in her presence ready to ask. Then I stutter.

I have only ever asked a girl out once in my entire life.

If you're going to ask her out, do something really casual. I would ask her out to a coffee shop and just talk and get to know each other.


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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-20 21:11:35 Reply

I've known her for years and she kept going on about how she'd known me for a long time. I wasn't overly emotional at all until today.

That's Bgraylor's follow up. Respond to this.


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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-20 23:37:42 Reply

At 5/20/12 09:11 PM, Glides wrote: I've known her for years and she kept going on about how she'd known me for a long time. I wasn't overly emotional at all until today.

That's Bgraylor's follow up. Respond to this.

Thanks. I'm not banned anymore lol.

I was stupid for thinking that posting one half of the conversation would make sense. Even considering, you're probably right about me becoming overly emotional about the whole thing.

I found out that she had asked her friend for advice about me, and she said that she "shouldn't pretend to be comfortable around me when she really isn't". So I guess the problem was that she still refused to communicate with me about her problems, and hid her emotions so I didn't know what was going on.

She insisted that the problem wasn't related to me, she said that she couldn't handle any sort of relationship right now because the idea made her nervous and miserable. I talked to her friend and insisted that she never actually thought of me as anything other than a friend, that she just went along with dating me. I have a hard time believing that this is true... what possible motivation would she have to deceive me? I can tell when someone is attracted to me.

I talked to her about it and she didn't give a direct answer. She just repeated her earlier statement about it not being about me, "I'm not ready for dating". Etc.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-21 09:06:27 Reply

At 5/17/12 10:38 PM, Glides wrote: Well, you can't start a conversation with a total stranger without looking like a creep. Well, unless you have amazing social skills, which I don't have in this instance. So that's sort of the hurdle there: I try to talk to a girl, she thinks I'm a creep. And I know enough body language to know that.

Sure, but who says you need to talk to a girl you like in order to gain social skills? Talk to anyone you don't know and you'll achieve that. With the level of skill you've achieved in that way, you can start building it more with girls. They don't have to be girls you really want to get with, just girls, casual conversations. You have to train before you enter a competition.


So by starting conversations out of the blue, then?

That too. Put yourself in situations where you'll have to be social or can easily be social. For instance, go to a mall in your neighborhood, walk into a bunch of stores and ask the people who work there a bunch of questions about the stuff they have, what they'd recommend for you, etc. You don't have to be interested in what they have to say or the stuff they're offering. The goal is to talk to a stranger, keep a conversation going and start feeling more and more comfortable with it.
People in stores are a great practice since they're being paid to provide customer service. You can use them as simple practice to gain at least some skill and level of confidence before going on to the next level.
Another thing you can do which will dramatically improve your skill; walk up to any girl you see in that same mall and say: "Hi, I'm ..... and I'm trying to improve upon my social skills. Can I ask you something? What qualities are you attracted to in guys?"
Seems impossible? Try it, it's very hard to begin with but once you're doing it you'll learn very fast. Ask them anything, keep on asking, have actual conversations and thank them for their time.


I get it. But tell me this, are you only willing to run, or are you also willing to make sure you have legs to run on?
Please explain this.

You say you are willing but you don't have the knowledge or skill to get the result you want. You're willing to do what you want to do with that skill had you had it right now. However, you're not willing to do what you need to do in order to get that skill. Nobody else is going to hand you over a pair of legs to run on. You'll have to stop talking about wanting to run and instead put yourself out there in order to get those legs.

By starting conversations with total strangers.

Exactly. Every person you know at this point of your life was once a stranger. Why not turn some more strangers into people you know? Or do you want to only talk to people you talk to now for the rest of your life?

And I know that mature adults don't primarily rely on sex, but I'm a teenager and most of my peers are perverts. Whatcha gonna do?

On the outside, yes. And maybe the guys are, but the girls are not. Even then, girls are attracted to a whole array of different traits. Physical traits are among them, of course, but they have no impact anymore like they did 2000 years ago. The focus in this time we live in is on the traits of the mind. Women want to feel safe, want to feel appreciated, want to enjoy themselves, want a man who takes care of himself, has confidence, can make them laugh, has priorities in his life.
They'll pick someone who can stimulate their mind any day over a guy who has a great body. You just have to know (and be willing to find out) how to do so.

I'm the friendzoned guy. As Chris Rock said, "Because you never know."

And why is that?

Wait, so the solution presented itself to you? Was this solution a person, thing, or idea? So you got off easy, then. :P

No I did not. What I found was a person who teaches all of this stuff. I had his material but I still had to learn it all by myself, apply it in real life, take risks, get rejected, etc. Success doesn't come simply because you have the answer, you still need to apply it and learn how to use it best.

So you're like Hitch with a far more optimistic attitude. Because that's one of my favorite movies. Around girls I'm like Kevin James if he was about a hundred pounds lighter. Very funny movie, you should watch it.

Something like that, yeah. I really like that movie as well, except for the ending. He suddenly drops everything he has ever learned and gives her all the power he has just to be with her. All because she's prejudiced and decides to ignore her gut level instincts which tell her she's attracted to him. Other than that the movie is a perfect example of how it should be.
He's calm, relaxed, not depending on the reaction of these women. The success of Kevin James in that movie is also realistic. All his success can be contributed to one simple thing; he did what he needed to do. He did something.

I would probably have to guess that it's due to that when it comes to "romance," it has been a very painful ride. I have been utterly humiliated by women before, from a very young age on. Called out in front of classmates, deliberately messing with my head before screwing me over, and asking me out on dates only to stand me up on purpose are only the tip of the iceberg. So eventually, around junior year or so, I completely checked out, and gave up completely. Didn't feel good at all, but at least I wouldn't suffer that kind of pain. So I've spent the last 2 years or so pretending to have moderate success with women to my acquaintances, and so on. I've gotten used to it. Finally the loneliness got to me and I started posting here.

What's worse? The loneliness and accepting from yourself that you're denying growth in your life and any chance of getting what you'd actually like to have, or the pain of experience in life?

You see, everyone who has ever achieved any success did so only after failing many times. Sure, it hurt, but people who fail can learn, as long as they're willing, how to turn that failure into success. Think of great men and women and success they've achieved. Do some research and you'll find they've had great "misfortune" before becoming successful.
And this applies to everything, not merely business or politics. I myself was beyond desperation at the time I got the opportunity to make a change. I committed myself to this change because I couldn't stand the pain of being unable to get what I wanted anymore. I decided for myself that any effort, any pain, was worth the success I'd eventually get.
I got hurt again along the way, got into a crappy relationship, had my share of disappointments. All of them contributed to the success I have now. I learned from all those experiences and make sure not to repeat them now.


That's about as emo as I'm getting. Explains why I'm so dismissive of most of your advice, right?

Yes and no. I understand why you're being skeptical and why you're afraid of getting hurt. What I don't understand is why you've given up completely. Is not feeling pain really that much better to you than feeling happiness?

Besides that, I also don't understand why you dismiss even the possibility of you being able to learn how to attract women? How come you're here when you believe nothing can be done for you?


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-22 20:21:44 Reply


Sure, but who says you need to talk to a girl you like in order to gain social skills? Talk to anyone you don't know and you'll achieve that. With the level of skill you've achieved in that way, you can start building it more with girls. They don't have to be girls you really want to get with, just girls, casual conversations. You have to train before you enter a competition.

I think you might be assuming here that because I can't talk to pretty girls, I can't talk to ANYONE. And though I don't talk to strangers much, if one strikes up a conversation I do just fine. I'm perfectly capable at talking to someone if I'm not attracted to them. This means all men and women I'm not attracted to are fine.

That too. Put yourself in situations where you'll have to be social or can easily be social. For instance, go to a mall in your neighborhood, walk into a bunch of stores and ask the people who work there a bunch of questions about the stuff they have, what they'd recommend for you, etc. You don't have to be interested in what they have to say or the stuff they're offering. The goal is to talk to a stranger, keep a conversation going and start feeling more and more comfortable with it.

Since I do that anyway when buying things, I suppose I've been following your advice already. The conversation doesn't last any longer than to find whatever I need, but a conversation needs natural progression, and it's not an immediate switch from business to casual.

People in stores are a great practice since they're being paid to provide customer service. You can use them as simple practice to gain at least some skill and level of confidence before going on to the next level.
Another thing you can do which will dramatically improve your skill; walk up to any girl you see in that same mall and say: "Hi, I'm ..... and I'm trying to improve upon my social skills. Can I ask you something? What qualities are you attracted to in guys?"

Nuh uh. That can't possibly work.

Seems impossible? Try it, it's very hard to begin with but once you're doing it you'll learn very fast. Ask them anything, keep on asking, have actual conversations and thank them for their time.

So chicks are gonna like some weirdo asking them very personal questions? I'm skeptical.


You say you are willing but you don't have the knowledge or skill to get the result you want. You're willing to do what you want to do with that skill had you had it right now. However, you're not willing to do what you need to do in order to get that skill. Nobody else is going to hand you over a pair of legs to run on. You'll have to stop talking about wanting to run and instead put yourself out there in order to get those legs.

You're forgetting about how pretty girls generally don't want anything to do with me. If it was just shyness, then it would be me being a lazy ass, and there would be pretty girls wondering why I won't talk to them. But they have no interest in me, except as a friend, and I've done enough research to know that the friend zone is a no-no.

Every person you know at this point of your life was once a stranger. Why not turn some more strangers into people you know? Or do you want to only talk to people you talk to now for the rest of your life?

Well, no. But I'll meet more people inevitably.

On the outside, yes. And maybe the guys are, but the girls are not. Even then, girls are attracted to a whole array of different traits. Physical traits are among them, of course, but they have no impact anymore like they did 2000 years ago. The focus in this time we live in is on the traits of the mind. Women want to feel safe, want to feel appreciated, want to enjoy themselves, want a man who takes care of himself, has confidence, can make them laugh, has priorities in his life.
They'll pick someone who can stimulate their mind any day over a guy who has a great body. You just have to know (and be willing to find out) how to do so.

If that was true, every math geek in the world would be getting laid. Now, true, guys are completely physical, so this is not exclusive. Most people aren't that intelligent, anyway. And I'm personally just bright enough to know that I'm stupid. Bad joke.

And why is that?

Chris Rock's reasoning is that if the girl ever breaks up with her current partner, she's got alternatives. My reasoning is that if she's nice, she simply wants to be friends, but since you're ugly, you don't have a chance. If not, then she simply wants to play with your head and hurt you even more. Women take great pride in their friendzones, as I've heard from girls, commenting on their personal friendzones. Some have even told me about them, and about how much they love screwing these guys over. Now, that's far worse than what I am. I'm a cynical ass, but a self-aware cynical ass.


No I did not. What I found was a person who teaches all of this stuff. I had his material but I still had to learn it all by myself, apply it in real life, take risks, get rejected, etc. Success doesn't come simply because you have the answer, you still need to apply it and learn how to use it best.

True, true. Hope that worked out.


Something like that, yeah. I really like that movie as well, except for the ending. He suddenly drops everything he has ever learned and gives her all the power he has just to be with her. All because she's prejudiced and decides to ignore her gut level instincts which tell her she's attracted to him. Other than that the movie is a perfect example of how it should be.
He's calm, relaxed, not depending on the reaction of these women. The success of Kevin James in that movie is also realistic. All his success can be contributed to one simple thing; he did what he needed to do. He did something.

See, key word I took out of that was "attraction." Now, Kevin James is a rare success in that movie, because he's hilarious and just plain up awesome.


What's worse? The loneliness and accepting from yourself that you're denying growth in your life and any chance of getting what you'd actually like to have, or the pain of experience in life?

I've almost been in a relationship a few times, and each time I'd go ahead and fuck it up. Those fuck-ups, plus all the other ones I talked about, made me like this. Well, me fucking up, anyway.

Yes and no. I understand why you're being skeptical and why you're afraid of getting hurt. What I don't understand is why you've given up completely. Is not feeling pain really that much better to you than feeling happiness?

That's a human thing, to not want to feel pain. I've given up as much as I've had, as I've said, because of the amount of failure I've had. And what the vast majority of those successful people had in common was an amazing amount of talent in their particular line of work. Sure, they failed, but they knew how good they were and that eventually it would work it out. I might not be good at anything, but that's not the problem here. I mean, if women were attracted to me and I didn't know how to express it back, that would be one thing. But women want nothing to do with me, and I don't entirely know why.


Besides that, I also don't understand why you dismiss even the possibility of you being able to learn how to attract women? How come you're here when you believe nothing can be done for you?

I'm trying to explore whatever possibilities I have left. It might be hopeless, but at least I can say I tried before gracefully giving up for good.


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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-25 09:52:37 Reply

At 5/22/12 08:21 PM, Glides wrote: I'm perfectly capable at talking to someone if I'm not attracted to them. This means all men and women I'm not attracted to are fine.

Then you'll need to talk to women you're attracted to. You can even apply the technique I provided below to this. Simply explain what you're trying to accomplish and ask her some stuff. She can't be offended by the idea of you trying to improve yourself and showing interest in her personality as a means of improvement. Who knows, you might get more from it than simple improvement, you could become friends or more. The advantage of being friends (not a girlfriend, or someone who's friendzoned) is that you'll get to know a lot of her friends. Seeing as people often surround themselves with people just like them, chances are you'll be introduced to quite some single attractive women that way.


Since I do that anyway when buying things, I suppose I've been following your advice already. The conversation doesn't last any longer than to find whatever I need, but a conversation needs natural progression, and it's not an immediate switch from business to casual.

Sure, not every conversation progresses that way. However, progress can happen on its own or because either one of you decides that that's where the conversation should go. Are you trying to see possibilities to progress into a more natural conversation?
For instance, I had a 20 minute conversation with a woman the other day whom I had never seen before. It was about all sorts of personal stuff and the conversation started because I yawned. I could've not reacted to what she said. Instead I engaged in conversation and let it progress from there.
And of course, it's harder to progress into a more personal conversation with someone in a store. They're quite often business minded and not open to such conversation. That's why that's a stepping stone. If you can already do that, take it to the next level. Talk to strangers outside stores, talk to girls you find attractive.

Nuh uh. That can't possibly work.

How do you know? Have you tried? I have, and it worked just fine for me.

So chicks are gonna like some weirdo asking them very personal questions? I'm skeptical.

You're right, what kind of girl can even enjoy someone showing interest in their personality? That's crazy talk!

You're forgetting about how pretty girls generally don't want anything to do with me. If it was just shyness, then it would be me being a lazy ass, and there would be pretty girls wondering why I won't talk to them. But they have no interest in me, except as a friend, and I've done enough research to know that the friend zone is a no-no.

Sure, but have you researched how not to end in there? The reason they show no interest in you is, quite simple, that you're not interesting to them. You show no qualities they find attractive. If you have qualities they might find interesting, you have no idea how to let them know that.
It's not girls who aren't interested in you, it's you not attracting them to you.


Well, no. But I'll meet more people inevitably.

Sure, people you can talk to because you have interest in them. How's that going to get you what you want?

You see, if you wait untill the world throws you a bone, you have no control over what it is you get. You will never get what you want that way. You have to look for the things you want and get them.

If that was true, every math geek in the world would be getting laid. Now, true, guys are completely physical, so this is not exclusive. Most people aren't that intelligent, anyway. And I'm personally just bright enough to know that I'm stupid. Bad joke.

That's assuming that intelligence attracts women. It does, but intelligence itself doesn't create attraction. Besides, how would being able to solve an equation attract a woman? The point is, even a retard can attract a beautiful woman. You don't have to be intelligent, rich or handsome. You have to make her feel the things she wants to feel. None of those things are required to do that.


If not, then she simply wants to play with your head and hurt you even more. Women take great pride in their friendzones, as I've heard from girls, commenting on their personal friendzones. Some have even told me about them, and about how much they love screwing these guys over. Now, that's far worse than what I am. I'm a cynical ass, but a self-aware cynical ass.

Wow, I must admit, that's fucked up. I've personally never heard of such a thing, but I can see how girls would do that. Then again, you're talking about girls. Being able to attract women requires a level of maturity (which is disconnected from age) and spending that on such immature women is useless.
The reason mature women have guys in a friendzone is simple. They have a connection but there's no attraction involved. The guy is always to blame for that, never the woman.

True, true. Hope that worked out.

Let's review;

Before: Never had a girlfriend (or even kissed a girl), living on the attic all day, never getting out, not being able to talk to anyone besides my family, extremely low self-esteem.

After: Engaged to an amazing girl, big group of close friends, random conversations with strangers, high level of confidence, great job, very high level of happiness.

Seems like it worked out.

See, key word I took out of that was "attraction." Now, Kevin James is a rare success in that movie, because he's hilarious and just plain up awesome.

A rare success? His success is only rare in that other guys wouldn't go for a girl with such high status, whereas he does. The situation is rare but his success is not. You see, he is hilarious, and he is awesome. But to her, he's not, not in the beginning. In the beginning he's nothing to her, just another suit waiting to throw himself on her.
His success comes from being different from the rest, having the balls to make certain jokes with her, etc. In that way his success is in no way different from any guy attracting a girl.

I've almost been in a relationship a few times, and each time I'd go ahead and fuck it up. Those fuck-ups, plus all the other ones I talked about, made me like this. Well, me fucking up, anyway.

How'd you fuck up?


That's a human thing, to not want to feel pain. I've given up as much as I've had, as I've said, because of the amount of failure I've had. And what the vast majority of those successful people had in common was an amazing amount of talent in their particular line of work. Sure, they failed, but they knew how good they were and that eventually it would work it out. I might not be good at anything, but that's not the problem here. I mean, if women were attracted to me and I didn't know how to express it back, that would be one thing. But women want nothing to do with me, and I don't entirely know why.

That's true, but it's also a human thing to risk pain in order to gain happiness.

As for those succesful people, the vast majority of them didn't know they had amazing talent. In fact, most started out as being nothing. What they knew is where they wanted to be and that they needed to work hard for it. They did not yet posess the knowledge or skills to get there. Step by step they got there, by making mistakes, constantly improving themselves, persistance and discipline.
Henry Ford for instance. Not a particular smart guy but great persistance. Never gave up on a single idea and understood the principle of the reference group.
Abraham Lincoln. A nobody untill his late forties becomes one of the greatest presidents.

They didn't do this based on talent. They had a goal and never gave up, no matter what happened.

"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have" - Thomas Jefferson -

I'm trying to explore whatever possibilities I have left. It might be hopeless, but at least I can say I tried before gracefully giving up for good.

Except that by doing so with an attitude like that, you've already given up. If you truly are trying you wouldn't be so dismissive of someone trying to show you a way to live a better life.


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-25 15:41:13 Reply

i pretty much dislike anyone who does any kind of drug (including alcohol) or believes in any religion so in this curren fucked up word there aren`t many relatioship options


Its only rape if you say no.

Say no to rape.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-25 15:55:41 Reply

At 5/25/12 03:41 PM, kakalxlax wrote: i pretty much dislike anyone who does any kind of drug (including alcohol) or believes in any religion so in this curren fucked up word there aren`t many relatioship options

The world is fucked up because you have specific expectations and can't find people to match them?
By "including alcohol" do you mean that you dislike anyone that drinks at all? Because that's just silly to me.

Those kind of people (atheists, non-drinkers) aren't that hard to find in themselves but if you combine both of those expectations then be prepared to wait a while.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-25 16:09:41 Reply

At 5/25/12 03:55 PM, GuerrilleroHeroico wrote:

Those kind of people (atheists, non-drinkers) aren't that hard to find in themselves but if you combine both of those expectations then be prepared to wait a while.

being alone and being with a girl like that are the 2 acceptable options


Its only rape if you say no.

Say no to rape.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-25 16:46:03 Reply

I think this list could use a little tweaking to be honest.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-25 17:07:19 Reply

At 5/25/12 04:09 PM, kakalxlax wrote: being alone and being with a girl like that are the 2 acceptable options

Seems you've already made up your mind about that.
What kind of help or advice were you expecting to get then? The only thing that you can do is keep looking.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-05-27 17:19:38 Reply

At 5/25/12 05:07 PM, GuerrilleroHeroico wrote:
At 5/25/12 04:09 PM, kakalxlax wrote: being alone and being with a girl like that are the 2 acceptable options
Seems you've already made up your mind about that.
What kind of help or advice were you expecting to get then? The only thing that you can do is keep looking.

I'm guessing none.

However, I'm wondering though, why exactly is it that you dislike them? Is it because of the behaviour they display when under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Or is it because of the type of personality that (you think) is connected with taking drugs or drinking alcohol?
I'm very interested to see if you have a genuine reason for disliking them.

I can tell you this beforehand though; don't expect to meet anyone like that without actively looking for her. So far in my life I've met only 2 people who don't do drugs or alcohol, one of which an islamic girl and the other one of my close friends (who does drink but only extremely sweet drinks so he won't taste the alcohol).
Also, I completely understand the part about drugs. Drugs are often more destructive and addictive than alcohol. I don't consider anyone who takes drugs as a friend of mine.
However, alcohol is usually harmless in comparison. Sure, it can be even more destructive sometimes, but most people take only small amounts of alcohol at a time. This hardly changes anything about the way they act.
Usually people who are giants dicks drink a lot because they are dicks. Doesn't mean that people who drink a lot are automatically giant dicks.


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-03 00:52:24 Reply

Then you'll need to talk to women you're attracted to. You can even apply the technique I provided below to this. Simply explain what you're trying to accomplish and ask her some stuff. She can't be offended by the idea of you trying to improve yourself and showing interest in her personality as a means of improvement. Who knows, you might get more from it than simple improvement, you could become friends or more. The advantage of being friends (not a girlfriend, or someone who's friendzoned) is that you'll get to know a lot of her friends. Seeing as people often surround themselves with people just like them, chances are you'll be introduced to quite some single attractive women that way.

I don't think openly admitting your issues to a stranger works well. Asking "Hi, I don't know how to talk to you. How can I talk to you?" is going to make her want to have anything to do with me. And I don't have the advantage of being attractive, remember.

You're right, what kind of girl can even enjoy someone showing interest in their personality? That's crazy talk!

If you're attractive, it works just fine.

Sure, but have you researched how not to end in there? The reason they show no interest in you is, quite simple, that you're not interesting to them. You show no qualities they find attractive. If you have qualities they might find interesting, you have no idea how to let them know that.
It's not girls who aren't interested in you, it's you not attracting them to you.

Same thing, but yeah, you're right. And since I don't have any qualities that I can think of, that sort of screws me up in the long run.

You see, if you wait untill the world throws you a bone, you have no control over what it is you get. You will never get what you want that way. You have to look for the things you want and get them.

I'm not really looking for a bone, in that sense. I'm trying to comprehend my own flaws.

That's assuming that intelligence attracts women. It does, but intelligence itself doesn't create attraction. Besides, how would being able to solve an equation attract a woman? The point is, even a retard can attract a beautiful woman. You don't have to be intelligent, rich or handsome. You have to make her feel the things she wants to feel. None of those things are required to do that.

Well, intelligence has never attracted anyone to anyone, that's why it was a joke. Now, to be fair, physical appearance or confidence are the two factors that attract people to one another. The other, minor one is desperation, which is how ugly children are born. That's one of those unfortunate, but true statements. That's the only time I'm going to say that I'm right for sure about something here.

Wow, I must admit, that's fucked up. I've personally never heard of such a thing, but I can see how girls would do that. Then again, you're talking about girls. Being able to attract women requires a level of maturity (which is disconnected from age) and spending that on such immature women is useless.

I can't argue that point.

The reason mature women have guys in a friendzone is simple. They have a connection but there's no attraction involved. The guy is always to blame for that, never the woman.

There's never enough diamond rings for some fellas. Sorry, another bad joke.

Let's review;

Before: Never had a girlfriend (or even kissed a girl), living on the attic all day, never getting out, not being able to talk to anyone besides my family, extremely low self-esteem.

The first and last apply to me. I don't have much of a social life myself, so don't think I'm making fun of you.


After: Engaged to an amazing girl, big group of close friends, random conversations with strangers, high level of confidence, great job, very high level of happiness.

Seems like it worked out.

That's complete opposite ends of the spectrum right there. I'm a wee bit skeptical about that.

How'd you fuck up?

To shorten the story a bit, whenever I have feelings for a girl (or woman), it hasn't worked out. Results vary from public humiliation to simply ignoring me. One of them grinded me at a dance to get back at her boyfriend, and that's the farthest I've ever gone with a girl. Maybe it's because, like you said, I have nothing to offer a woman or something. And sadly enough, I can't really blame them, as much as I would love to. Going for someone as unappealing as I am would literally be a sign of mental illness.

Except that by doing so with an attitude like that, you've already given up.

Mostly given up. But you can at least see that I'm not just some bozo who can't talk to girls. There's actually a term for guys like me, apparently: incel, or involuntarily celibate. When there's a mental disorder for guys who can't find any sort of romantic or sexual attachment whatsoever, and you have every symptom, the odds are not in your favor.


Glides is done with his post.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-05 07:48:15 Reply

At 6/3/12 12:52 AM, Glides wrote: I don't think openly admitting your issues to a stranger works well. Asking "Hi, I don't know how to talk to you. How can I talk to you?" is going to make her want to have anything to do with me. And I don't have the advantage of being attractive, remember.

You think quite a lot, but you know nothing. You can't think your way into a perfect life. You can't think yourself into being attractive. You can't think a woman into wanting to be with you.
You need to do. Questioning every single bit of advice someone gives you, someone who's been down the same road and has seen victory along the way, will get you nothing.
I didn't have the advantage of being attractive either, I've never had. But that's not even the point here. I'm not saying you should go out there and attract quality women to yourself. I'm saying you should learn how to talk to them. It's a step in the direction of your ultimate goal. A step to overcome all the limitations you've brought upon yourself.


If you're attractive, it works just fine.

Consider this: being genuinely interested in a person is an attractive quality.

Sounds plausible to you?

Think about it. How do you feel when someone shows genuine interest in you? Do you want to run away from them, never see them again? Or do you feel good, willing to talk about yourself, show them how feel?
When you're in a relationship with someone, you want to know everything about that person, experience everything with them. That's genuine interest and it starts before you even meet them.


Same thing, but yeah, you're right. And since I don't have any qualities that I can think of, that sort of screws me up in the long run.

That's where you're absolutely wrong. It's not your lack of qualities that screws you up in the long run, it's your lack of willingness to change who you are and what qualities you own.
Confidence, honesty, discipline, perceverance, temperance, humor, courage, optimism, etc. are all qualities loved by women. All of them can be tought and learned. They can be acquired, nurtured and mastered.
However, acquiring new qualities requires above all else a willingness to change, a willingness to admit that you've been wrong, that the beliefs you cherish are taking power away from you.

Well, intelligence has never attracted anyone to anyone, that's why it was a joke. Now, to be fair, physical appearance or confidence are the two factors that attract people to one another. The other, minor one is desperation, which is how ugly children are born. That's one of those unfortunate, but true statements. That's the only time I'm going to say that I'm right for sure about something here.

And yet you are wrong again. Of course, in your version of the world it is true, I won't argue with that. When you look at the way things actually work, it's not. Less attractive people are simply that; less attractive. The amount of attraction you can create in someone else determines the quality of person you can be with. Extremely hideous looking guys can achieve the most beautiful and succesful women in the world simply because they do all the things and have major qualities which attracts those women to them.
As a result, people who generate little attraction in another end up with someone who can't generate that much attraction either. They generally are not desperate or feel like they're unlucky to be with the person they're with.
Sure, there are some exceptions. The exceptions to this rule are people who hoped for more, weren't willing to put in the time and energy to change themselves in order to be more attractive, and end up feeling like they could have done better.

They settle for less, blaming life for the fact they did not nothing and chose to feel sorry for themselves over putting in any effort. Of course, they also say things like "Now, to be fair, physical appearance or confidence are the two factors that attract people to one another. The other, minor one is desperation, which is how ugly children are born. That's one of those unfortunate, but true statements. That's the only time I'm going to say that I'm right for sure about something here."
They say this because they need to blame anything but themselves for their own lack of effort. Having to admit this to themselves would mean they'd consciously break their patttern of going for the easiest way. They'd rather enjoy less for less effort than to enjoy greatly for mild effort.


That's complete opposite ends of the spectrum right there. I'm a wee bit skeptical about that.

Why is that? Aren't there thousands of examples in the world of people rising up from the ashes and completely changing their lifes around? Is my success inconceivable to you because you can't imagine yourself achieving such success?

In the end, that's what it's all about. Wether you achieve success or not depends on wether or not you can actually imagine and believe yourself to be able to achieve it. It's impossible to achieve success when you're convinced you can't.


To shorten the story a bit, whenever I have feelings for a girl (or woman), it hasn't worked out. Results vary from public humiliation to simply ignoring me. One of them grinded me at a dance to get back at her boyfriend, and that's the farthest I've ever gone with a girl. Maybe it's because, like you said, I have nothing to offer a woman or something. And sadly enough, I can't really blame them, as much as I would love to. Going for someone as unappealing as I am would literally be a sign of mental illness.

Ok, so you can't blame them. But forget about blame for a second as it's a childish and weak concept anyway. What about responsibility? Can you hold yourself responsible for it? Are you responsible for not being attractive to women? Are you responsible for not doing anything about that?


Mostly given up. But you can at least see that I'm not just some bozo who can't talk to girls. There's actually a term for guys like me, apparently: incel, or involuntarily celibate. When there's a mental disorder for guys who can't find any sort of romantic or sexual attachment whatsoever, and you have every symptom, the odds are not in your favor.

Oh sorry, I've completely misread what you just said. I thought I read "here's another excuse for guys who refuse to take control of their own lifes". My bad, honestly.

What you say is no mental disorder. You can't find any romantic or sexual attachment but that's not because your mind doesn't function normally, in which case it would be a disorder. It's because the way you've been trying to get that is not working. And after it has proven not to work, you've blindly stuck to it, unaware of the fact that you needed to change the way you communicate towards women.
When you try to go from one room to the next, you try and walk through the wall. Doesn't work. What you do next is try again, and again and again untill one day you decide there's no use and you give up. What you need to do is get a sledgehammer and break the wall down instead of sitting down and feeling sorry for yourself because you can't walk through a wall.

When what you do doesn't work, change what you do!


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-05 16:43:15 Reply

You need to do. Questioning every single bit of advice someone gives you, someone who's been down the same road and has seen victory along the way, will get you nothing.

OK, talk to attractive women with that line of questioning. Got it.

I didn't have the advantage of being attractive either, I've never had. But that's not even the point here. I'm not saying you should go out there and attract quality women to yourself. I'm saying you should learn how to talk to them. It's a step in the direction of your ultimate goal. A step to overcome all the limitations you've brought upon yourself.
Consider this: being genuinely interested in a person is an attractive quality.

I suppose that makes me one shallow son of a bitch.

Sounds plausible to you?

Partially plausible. You mean sexual interest or just interest in a general sense?

Think about it. How do you feel when someone shows genuine interest in you? Do you want to run away from them, never see them again? Or do you feel good, willing to talk about yourself, show them how feel?

Depends on the person. That genuine interest can be seen as quite creepy actually.

When you're in a relationship with someone, you want to know everything about that person, experience everything with them. That's genuine interest and it starts before you even meet them.

I wouldn't know.

That's where you're absolutely wrong. It's not your lack of qualities that screws you up in the long run, it's your lack of willingness to change who you are and what qualities you own.
Confidence, honesty, discipline, perceverance, temperance, humor, courage, optimism, etc. are all qualities loved by women. All of them can be tought and learned. They can be acquired, nurtured and mastered.
However, acquiring new qualities requires above all else a willingness to change, a willingness to admit that you've been wrong, that the beliefs you cherish are taking power away from you.

Oh no, I know I'm wrong. I suppose I've got to like myself first.

As a result, people who generate little attraction in another end up with someone who can't generate that much attraction either. They generally are not desperate or feel like they're unlucky to be with the person they're with.
Sure, there are some exceptions. The exceptions to this rule are people who hoped for more, weren't willing to put in the time and energy to change themselves in order to be more attractive, and end up feeling like they could have done better.

I know people like that. I'm always getting grilled by these people for not sleeping around or anything like that, and then they complain to me about how hideous their partners end up being. I mean that in every way of course, because if you're a nice person, I'll want to talk to you. So they're just as hideous on the inside, too.

They settle for less, blaming life for the fact they did not nothing and chose to feel sorry for themselves over putting in any effort. Of course, they also say things like "Now, to be fair, physical appearance or confidence are the two factors that attract people to one another. The other, minor one is desperation, which is how ugly children are born. That's one of those unfortunate, but true statements. That's the only time I'm going to say that I'm right for sure about something here."
They say this because they need to blame anything but themselves for their own lack of effort. Having to admit this to themselves would mean they'd consciously break their patttern of going for the easiest way. They'd rather enjoy less for less effort than to enjoy greatly for mild effort.

I've never denied that I don't make any effort. It's pretty obvious that I don't try. But what's wrong with the statement itself?

Why is that? Aren't there thousands of examples in the world of people rising up from the ashes and completely changing their lifes around? Is my success inconceivable to you because you can't imagine yourself achieving such success?

Probably.

Ok, so you can't blame them. But forget about blame for a second as it's a childish and weak concept anyway. What about responsibility? Can you hold yourself responsible for it? Are you responsible for not being attractive to women? Are you responsible for not doing anything about that?

Well, I can't really be the shining knight in armor, mysterious and dangerous outlaw, sparkly vampire, what have you. So, yes, it's my lack of responsibility for not being good enough.

Oh sorry, I've completely misread what you just said. I thought I read "here's another excuse for guys who refuse to take control of their own lifes". My bad, honestly.

Well I looked it up, and that's what I found.

What you say is no mental disorder. You can't find any romantic or sexual attachment but that's not because your mind doesn't function normally, in which case it would be a disorder. It's because the way you've been trying to get that is not working. And after it has proven not to work, you've blindly stuck to it, unaware of the fact that you needed to change the way you communicate towards women.
When you try to go from one room to the next, you try and walk through the wall. Doesn't work. What you do next is try again, and again and again untill one day you decide there's no use and you give up. What you need to do is get a sledgehammer and break the wall down instead of sitting down and feeling sorry for yourself because you can't walk through a wall.

When what you do doesn't work, change what you do!

I was trying to find a way to argue all of these points. Yeah, I know, I'm a hopeless ass and if I was only a little more confident in myself, and more willing to get rejected hundreds of times, then I wouldn't have a problem. All I'm hearing is "what" though. I know I have a problem, and I know why. The only actual thing I've been told to do is approach random attractive women and humiliate myself and/or creep them out at the same time. I don't blame you for this approach, as this is a common motivational speaker tactic, which is how people like Tony Robbins and Deepak Chopra make money. Give me a false sense of confidence, and I'm A-OK. I'm sorry for being this tense about it, but I haven't heard anything so far except "you're pathetic, and it's your lack of responsibility that caused it." I know, now what?


Glides is done with his post.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-05 20:47:29 Reply

I'm going to try not to drag my relationship problems onto the General fourm so, I decided to come here first. xD

Anyway, me and my GF have been argueing much mroe lately. It started with her telling me to never look at another woman again... which EVENTUALLY got settled.

However, last night was her scholarship night (she did not get a scholarship btw) and I couldn't really find her after the event. Her graduation is coming up, so I suspect that she may be stressed out...

HOWEVER, I still do not feel that that excuses the lashing she gave me last night. She accused me of cheating, thinking everyone else was more important then her, said she trustes her friends more then me, said I WAS coping an attitude (I tried to be as quiet as possible when I saw just how stressed she was, and I don't know what provoked her to begin with), and just continously gave me a verbal beating.

I'm not going to lie, I'm not one of those guys whos easy to hurt... I tend to be relativily bullet proof unless I know I myself did something wrong, but last night hurt me more then I can remember. I've never once really contemplated breaking up with her, but after last night... I just don't know...

Any advice, suggestions, should I forgive her or not? Anything would be helpful right now...


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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-08 08:30:14 Reply

At 6/5/12 04:43 PM, Glides wrote: I was trying to find a way to argue all of these points. Yeah, I know, I'm a hopeless ass and if I was only a little more confident in myself, and more willing to get rejected hundreds of times, then I wouldn't have a problem. All I'm hearing is "what" though. I know I have a problem, and I know why. The only actual thing I've been told to do is approach random attractive women and humiliate myself and/or creep them out at the same time. I don't blame you for this approach, as this is a common motivational speaker tactic, which is how people like Tony Robbins and Deepak Chopra make money. Give me a false sense of confidence, and I'm A-OK. I'm sorry for being this tense about it, but I haven't heard anything so far except "you're pathetic, and it's your lack of responsibility that caused it." I know, now what?

Now it's time to actually take responsibility. You need to realize that there's nobody out there who can solve your problems but you. Doesn't matter wether it's Anthony Robbins or me who's telling you what's wrong. As long as you are not doing anything in order to change, you won't and won't achieve any kind of success that you hope for.

So far you've been a great listener. You've read everything I've said, responded to it all, but that won't matter one bit if you resist changing. You say you don't like yourself and that it's a part of the problem. However, you also use it as a reason not to change, because you need to like yourself in order to change. But why would you need to change yourself if you like who you are? It's the opposite, because you have to change to become who you like to be.

That's the common thing all people share who change themselves, be it with or without the help of another person: they want to change. They are unhappy with themselves in one way or another and must change in order to gain the happiness they desire.
You may not like it, but it's impossible to get handed over all the answers that will change you immediately. People like Anthony Robbins and myself can only make you see what has to change and we can help you along the way. We can help you ask the right questions, but you will always find the answers only in yourself. Change will only occur when you act upon the answers you get from asking yourself the right questions.


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-08 08:35:33 Reply

At 6/5/12 08:47 PM, JayTheWiz wrote: I'm going to try not to drag my relationship problems onto the General fourm so, I decided to come here first. xD

Anyway, me and my GF have been argueing much mroe lately. It started with her telling me to never look at another woman again... which EVENTUALLY got settled.

However, last night was her scholarship night (she did not get a scholarship btw) and I couldn't really find her after the event. Her graduation is coming up, so I suspect that she may be stressed out...

HOWEVER, I still do not feel that that excuses the lashing she gave me last night. She accused me of cheating, thinking everyone else was more important then her, said she trustes her friends more then me, said I WAS coping an attitude (I tried to be as quiet as possible when I saw just how stressed she was, and I don't know what provoked her to begin with), and just continously gave me a verbal beating.

I'm not going to lie, I'm not one of those guys whos easy to hurt... I tend to be relativily bullet proof unless I know I myself did something wrong, but last night hurt me more then I can remember. I've never once really contemplated breaking up with her, but after last night... I just don't know...

Any advice, suggestions, should I forgive her or not? Anything would be helpful right now...

I would break up with her. Verbally and mentally abusing someone like that is unacceptable. Besides, I wouldn't even accept it if my girlfriend told me not to look at another woman ever again. I'm not saying I want to or that I should be able to, but the jealousy which it shows it simply repulsive.
You can't build a healthy relationship on so much jealousy. Her telling you she trusts her friends more than you is another sign of that. No amount of stress on her part is an excuse for her behaviour. You'd do yourself a big favor if you got rid of negative influence before it starts to affect you.


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-12 02:35:05 Reply

While reading through this thread I came across the posts you made about locus of control etc.
I found them incredibly helpful, why don't you mention them more often? :P

They've really given me a lot to think about, I put them in one place on my computer so I can read over them. Here's an upload for anyone that's interested.

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-12 03:22:45 Reply

Hmm, from the looks of it, Vincoid is the only person still around who might remember him, but there was an old regular here named "Idontknow139". I just recently created this account and his brother asked me to inform everyone. Idontknow139 (Name withheld) was killed in Afghanistan shortly after being transferred from Iraq last year. He was 20 years old.


EXEC: TEMPSIG

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-12 13:03:57 Reply

At 6/12/12 02:35 AM, GuerrilleroHeroico wrote: While reading through this thread I came across the posts you made about locus of control etc.
I found them incredibly helpful, why don't you mention them more often? :P

They've really given me a lot to think about, I put them in one place on my computer so I can read over them. Here's an upload for anyone that's interested.

Man that was a long time ago! You're absolutely right, I should mention that more often, thanks for the upload!

At 6/12/12 03:22 AM, CynicalDouchebag wrote: Hmm, from the looks of it, Vincoid is the only person still around who might remember him, but there was an old regular here named "Idontknow139". I just recently created this account and his brother asked me to inform everyone. Idontknow139 (Name withheld) was killed in Afghanistan shortly after being transferred from Iraq last year. He was 20 years old.

I'm sorry to hear that, may his soul rest in peace.


"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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Response to Relationship Crew 2012-06-12 21:58:08 Reply

Reading a bit more I found your "monster post" about attraction. I added it here. This is great stuff man! Also, I remember you bringing up some books but I don't want to dig through all of those posts again. You have a few you could recommend off the top of your head?

I couldn't help but notice the part where you said that in order to continue interest one must continue to play "hard to get" which is why you'll never get married. Since you're engaged now, I'm guessing that you were referring to attitude rather than literal marriage? Or did your ideas just change lol?