there is no god, get over it.

[straight1]

'the war on terror is bullshit' was a great thread, it got me thinking about what it is in man that needs wars.

imho, there will not be real peace in this world until everyone accepts that there is no god and that one day they will die and not go to be with the angles, or be with 50 virgins, or come back as a farkin dolphin !!!

why???

because the threads of our demise lie within our personal need for a god.

what is the meaning of life??? death. its that simple.
whats the meaning of air??? it has no meaning, unless there is a chance that it will go away. imho its the same with life. without death life has no meaning. death defines life.

how different would world politics be if we were all imortal. not as stupid a question as it seems?!?!? what do you think??

[RedSkunk]

What's your proof that there is no god?

[straight1]

your just baiting me, if you were a real religious type you wouldnt use the word 'proof'.

humour me and work backwards on this one, what would world politics 'look like' if we were all imortal??

[The-Last-Cynic]

You're open minded, I'm not going to debate whether or not there's a god, because nothing I can say is solid evidence same goes for you. But why don't leave the people who have a reason to live believe in what they want to believe and kill yourself, it's your little shortcut to the meaning of life.

[straight1]

i wont be baited.

my question is, what would world politics look like if we were all imortal??

[Demosthenez]

straight1, you are some young guy who thinks he is real smart thogh and counter culture by saying this. Wow. I dont really believe their is a god, intellectually, but I am just not sure. So I will leave my options open.

Also, it will be funny to hear what you have to say when you are on your deathbead, dying of whatever, spouting off how your meaning in life was just to pass on your genetic info and die. Cause we all know there is almost no one who can say that that is close to death. And I know you wont believe this so staunchly when you are an old fart. If you do, bravo. You are stronger than most of us.

[The-Last-Cynic]

I'd love to know what that metaphor means.

ANYWAYS, I imagine national conflicts would either be talked out or would destroy the world with us on it. Us being immortal would be a complete disaster, since violence wouldn't be able solve things, we'd keep ruining each others stuff, that would lead to everything being destroyed and since no one fears for their lives no one would stop. It would be a theatrical distopia from being given too much power.

What does that have to do with God?

[Memorize]

1. you have no proof that there is no god, and i know of what you said, you wont be baited.

2. if there was no religion then it would be the same, even if there wasnt religion people would still start wars over arguements and power.

3. great job being an ass.

[EnragedSephiroth]

At 9/10/04 07:03 PM, straight1 wrote: i wont be baited.

my question is, what would world politics look like if we were all imortal??

It would suck. Why? Because we would care less of the consequences because "we're all going to die anyway" good sir.
Then again, what if people were more careful because this is the only chance you get at life? Eh... I'm hungry, that's all for now.

[hairy-tuba-dude]

At 9/10/04 07:03 PM, straight1 wrote: i wont be baited.

my question is, what would world politics look like if we were all imortal??

Someone is always going to want more power than they currently have. Organized religion was one way to give people this power. If there was no religion there would just be some other means to control the masses. Don't blame God for stupid shit people do.

[Demosthenez]

Dude, that purple car looks so nice :) Bet its gas mileage sucks ass tho.

[straight1]

im a 43yr old australian,
im not trying to be anything to anyone.
i came to this forum from a search on 'the war on terror cant be won' and i liked what i read.

imho this is a forum with some real thinkers. i like that.

i do believe what i have said. i will never embrace any god or form of after life. nothing heroic about that really.

what im getting at is that imho we are all flawed, we are all products of flawed parents and flawed societies. those flaws are so fundamental that most people cant even see them. how can they? their experience of life limits what they can see.

eg. im a hunter, and my experience tells me that you cant see what your not looking for. if you havnt seen it, you its very difficult to see it, unless its right in your face and you are forced to deal with it.

i have had a feeling for many years that there is a link between the need to believe in a god and the need for war. i have some thoughts on this, and i thought that this forum might be a good place to 'thrash that out'.

[Demosthenez]

Ehh, well my bad then. You are stronger than me. Not sure I could do that. As much as my brain wants me to believe that, it just sort of makes me un easy that I have no purpose in life other than to make offspring and die. Im smart enough to believe in everything that would refute a God (well, not totally, but close enough) but to stubborn to process it. Oh well. I will leave all doors open.

[straight1]

i think ive asked the 'wrong' question.... always a bigger mistake than giving the 'wrong' answer.

[i think that people that use the words 'right' and 'wrong' are as big a part of the problem as those that need to have have wars.]

my refined question.
what would world politics look like if no one had ever even thought of a god.... if everyone knew that one day they would die and that would be there end?

why ask this particular question? because i believe that there is a human flaw that drives us to need a god to fill a part of us that is empty. i believe that if we can 'heal' that part of us then we can move onto a more equatible world.

i thought that working backwards from a vision of a world without any gods might help.

[jonthomson]

At 9/10/04 07:19 PM, straight1 wrote: im a 43yr old australian,

Clearly we need to dispatch some more apostrophes to the colonies.

[straight1]

Einstein once said, "You can not solve the problems of the world at the same level of thinking that you used to create them."

i think that terror cant be 'solved' thinking about guns and war and countries and who did what to who first.

we need to think on a 'new level'.

i personaly think we need to start looking inside our belief structures for areas that need healing.

beliefs, values, behaviours, habits, cultures. they build one on the other. we cant change cultures without changing beliefs, and that is going to hurt, and hurt big time.

if i cant change them, ill join them....i prepose a war on beliefs!!

my head hurts and im going to my kids soccer break up. i look forward to reading your replies. stewart 'straight' shuker brisbane.

[Demosthenez]

At 9/10/04 07:56 PM, jonthomson wrote:

At 9/10/04 07:19 PM, straight1 wrote: im a 43yr old australian,

Clearly we need to dispatch some more apostrophes to the colonies.

Lol. If you give me enough cash, I will get right on it.

[Nylo]

It's laughable that some agnostics think that Mankind has enough reason and sensibility to live in peace if only religion were abolished. That's like saying violence would be non-existant if we were to abolish guns; but that's a whole new advuenture.

[The-Last-Cynic]

At 9/10/04 07:49 PM, straight1 wrote: my refined question.
what would world politics look like if no one had ever even thought of a god.... if everyone knew that one day they would die and that would be there end?

Well, I simply don't see how fear of death and belief in God are connected. Even if we had no God, we're so complicated, that we have things that we attached ourselves to. So there would be no real difference except for different false motives to attract power. No God wouldn't change politics, it would simply give the facade of just reason to do something that is frowned upon, a new face.

[FUNKbrs]

Jesus loves you.

[Demosthenez]

KirbyMan=right.

[FUNKbrs]

At 9/10/04 08:07 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: KirbyMan=right.

One day the love of Jesus will come to live in your heart, and you will understand. Until that day, I pray for you.

[FatherVenom]

At 9/10/04 06:59 PM, straight1 wrote: your just baiting me, if you were a real religious type you wouldnt use the word 'proof'.

How about trying me on for size? Look at my name, obviously I'm a religious type. Proof. Now.

[SteveGuzzi]

At 9/10/04 07:49 PM, straight1 wrote: my refined question.
what would world politics look like if no one had ever even thought of a god.... if everyone knew that one day they would die and that would be there end?

why ask this particular question? because i believe that there is a human flaw that drives us to need a god to fill a part of us that is empty. i believe that if we can 'heal' that part of us then we can move onto a more equatible world.

Sorry bud, but this all sounds pretty silly to me.

For one, everyone already DOES know that they will die someday...and so what? It has little-to-no effect on the majority of decisions that people make during their lives. I might die from cancer when I'm 60, I might get hit by a truck tomorrow...neither possible event has much bearing on how I decide to interact with other people in society.

You are trying to relate this to world politics, I see. "what would world politics look like if no one had ever even thought of a god.... " - things would be the same. Politics is about control - not controlling what goes on in heaven and earth, but controlling people and resources. Politicians/Terrorists may try to rally support by claiming they have divine insight, or have spoken to God themselves, or something to that effect...but even without a concept of God, people would STILL use whatever means that are available to them to rally support for themselves while creating opposition against their opponents.

People, in terms of what they are capable of, are not equal. There are things that I suck at that you may excel in, while a weak area of yours may happen to be my forte. Politics ATTEMPTS to create order by putting the most capable people in charge...but it doesn't always work like that, and it has nothing to do with the concept of a higher being.

---

Your "there is no God, get over it" view is pretty, eh, sad. You said you came here because you read something interesting, right? Well, maybe you might find this topic of mine interesting, too:

* * * SCIENCE versus FAITH * * *

Don't forget to click the link inside that topic, too. The one about Edgar Cayce. I came up with a response to your question, so here is my question for you, now: How can Edgar Cayce's life be explained well enough to fit in with YOUR view of "there is no God"?

[FatherVenom]

Ok, I'm a hypocrit. Still, I'm going with Kirbyman on this one. Civilization needs four things, faith (not just faith in God), cooperation, specialization (division of labor for the good of all), and finally organization (routine and law). With law comes politicians and politicians wouldn't change.

[IceWraith15]

At 9/10/04 06:57 PM, red_skunk wrote: What's your proof that there is no god?

What's your proof that there is?

[Memorize]

At 9/10/04 08:42 PM, IceWraith15 wrote:

What's your proof that there is?

ok lets not start this into another constant fight between religion. besides the guy who started this thread was the one who came in and didnt give any reason why that there was no god.

[hairy-tuba-dude]

At 9/10/04 07:49 PM, straight1 wrote:

what would world politics look like if no one had ever even thought of a god.... if everyone knew that one day they would die and that would be there end?

My thoughts... The majority of people world wide believe in a god and yet are driven mostly by their materialism throughout the course of their lives. I see people as using "God" as an excuse to justify their actions... not the other way around. I see the belief in a god and the creation of religions as a way to, at least in the begining, instill values in people and to maintain order throughout a society. Take out god and things may have turned out very differently in primitive societies. Without order the strong could have persecuted the weak endlessly without the fear of something holding them in check. This of course is not the case in modern society where we have organized governments and laws... but I don't think we would be where we are now without God. Even if he isnt real, God kept primitives from killing themselves off long ago. Just a thought from me... don't take it as my final answer...

[RedSkunk]

At 9/10/04 08:42 PM, IceWraith15 wrote: What's your proof that there is?

When did I ever claim there was? Stop jumping to conclusions for fucks sake.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 9/10/04 06:57 PM, red_skunk wrote: What's your proof that there is no god?

The burden of proof is on the accusser, not the defender. I'm not the one claiming there is an omnipotent, all powerful, all knowing deity watching over us...the religious are. It is their responsibility to prove gods existance, not mine.