Issolationism

[Xion-Fox]

Okay, well yay, the us is election mode so I don't have to listen to more shit about the god damned "War On Terrorism" although as far as I'm concerned politics is a form of civil terrorism.

Why in the hell didn't the US simply adopt Issolationism as they had done at the start of WW2? I mean as opposed to charging out there guns firing why not simply cut off the ability for individuals of a given nationality from entering the country?

Its not discrimination anymore than what normally goes on in the states.

Just a thought.

Maybe because it resulted in both World Wars?

Isolationism blows. And we were hardly isolationist anyways..

[Camarohusky]

Well, our economy is now rooted in the rest of the world, we've become so economically globablized that isolationism is almsot impossible. But we could have ignored Iraq because they are not tied to our economy...

[BlueMax]

Well,

The USA got involved in the world because the UK and France were not doing a good job keeping the world stable. (look at WW2).

Realisitically, Yes the USA could have sat behind its great oceans and watched the rest of the world decay into a smoking ruin. Believe me, If the USA never got bombed in Pearl Harbor, the Germans would stalemate the Soviets, the Japanese would rule the Pacific, and the Eastern Hemisphere would be reduced to constant warfare.

The fact is that the USA is stuck as the world policeman. If we just went home, North Korea would invade South Korea, China would invade Taiwan, Iraq would fall apart into a terrorist nest that would eventually cause the collapse of the whole middle east, and the world order would become contested.

You heard me. If the USA did not take the lead, there will be a war to determine who would the world leader. China? India? Russia? France? We don't know, but everyone gains from a stable world.

[witeshark]

At 9/7/04 02:45 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Well, our economy is now rooted in the rest of the world

This is how I see it, mostly

[billybob505]

Hmmm from what I can tell the US usually likes to stay isolationist. The US tried to remain neutral in WW2 until Pearl Harbor happened. Not too many people in the US cared or thought about terrorism, than 9/11 happened. It seems like the US wants to be an isolationist nation but they just don't get a break.

[EnragedSephiroth]

At 9/8/04 12:21 AM, BlueMax wrote:

:: The fact is that the USA is stuck as the world policeman.

Yes and George W. Bush is doing an awesome job as chief of police isn't he? Yep about as good as Rampart... (for those of you whom live in Los Angeles and heard about the Rampart scandal years ago). There's obvious sarcasm in this statement if you don't get the point.

You heard me. If the USA did not take the lead, there will be a war to determine who would the world leader.

Well who knows but as far as I'm concerned, the U.S. is already trying to push it's self away from the rest of the world, look at our lovely and "patriotic" president Bush's plans of "Homeland Security" and "Patriot Act" that really just violate our freedoms as American citizens. In case you don't know, Bush is making the U.S. look very annoying in the eyes of the rest of the world, contrary to being verly loved as it used to be back in the good ol' days when they used to fight with PROOF and a good REASON instead of attacking 3rd world countries and selling them overpriced weapons and military arms that pale in comparisson to the arsenal the U.S. keeps for it's self.

The U.S. sells fighter jets such as the F-16 to central-american countries when the U.S. already has B-22 blackbirds and predator unmanned reconaissance aircraft to beat the other countries at what they just sold them. What kind of deal is that? If the other countries found out how screwed over they are they would be pretty outraged now wouldn't they? There's a bunch of sneaky underhanded shit the U.S. does that would push them away from the rest of the world, I just don't want to make this post THAT long.

[Montgomery-Scott]

The US is a huge column of ballance in the world. As the only superpower, we keep the rest of the nations from killing each other all the time. If we were to leave, A) the economies of many countries would colapse, as their US buisness would go byebye, and B) the world would break out into war. China wold be fighting russia, britian would be fighting france, italy would be fighting germany, and there would be no overreaching mitigating power.

[Xion-Fox]

Wow, talk about tooting your own horns. No offense but the us is not as big a policing force as you'd think. You guys kinda tend to stick your nose where it doesn't belong.

I hate to use this but the United Federation of Planets has got it right in its prime directive rules. "DON'T INTERFERE" Like seriously, although it wasn't completely provoked the 9/11 incident was as a result of americans poking thier nose in the middle eastern affairs.

Second, who the hell cares who fights who? Thas why we now have the UN right? If people want to conquer let them. Look at it from a cold war stand point. The US creates a common enemy among nations and there fore they set aside thier squabling to gang up on the guy who's got a gun pointed saying don't fight.

Canada is far better at peace keeping than the US, invasion is not policing its invading.

[BlueMax]

At 9/8/04 06:56 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote:

At 9/8/04 12:21 AM, BlueMax wrote:

The fact is that the USA is stuck as the world policeman.

Yes and George W. Bush is doing an awesome job as chief of police isn't he? Yep about as good as Rampart... (for those of you whom live in Los Angeles and heard about the Rampart scandal years ago). There's obvious sarcasm in this statement if you don't get the point.

--I'd agree with that. The point in having a "big Stick" is not to use it whenever you can, but to keep the world in line. Everyone's favorite crusader felon is bent the rules a little too much, and we and the world pays the price.

You heard me. If the USA did not take the lead, there will be a war to determine who would the world leader.

Well who knows but as far as I'm concerned, the U.S. is already trying to push it's self away from the rest of the world, look at our lovely and "patriotic" president Bush's plans of "Homeland Security" and "Patriot Act" that really just violate our freedoms as American citizens. In case you don't know, Bush is making the U.S. look very annoying in the eyes of the rest of the world, contrary to being verly loved as it used to be back in the good ol' days when they used to fight with PROOF and a good REASON instead of attacking 3rd world countries and selling them overpriced weapons and military arms that pale in comparisson to the arsenal the U.S. keeps for it's self.

--Whoa. I was trying to keep matters in theory, and yes, Bush is screwing up really really bad. Our businesses do weapon sales-- they could be, but aren't, regulated well by the US government. This is why yesterday's weapons show up in third world armies, with a bright "Made in the USA sticker"

The U.S. sells fighter jets such as the F-16 to central-american countries when the U.S. already has B-22 blackbirds and predator unmanned reconaissance aircraft to beat the other countries at what they just sold them. What kind of deal is that? If the other countries found out how screwed over they are they would be pretty outraged now wouldn't they?

--Ok. That is a misconception of how this all works. You can't be the USA in a war by buying its stuff. But you can beat up your neighbors. And one point about obsolete equipment is that reliable figures for performance and weaknesses are availabe, and in some cases, retro-fitting is also available. It may be detrimental to the country buying it, but "rip off" is not one of those problems. You know what you are getting.

There's a bunch of sneaky underhanded shit the U.S. does that would push them away from the rest of the world, I just don't want to make this post THAT long.

--Very true. The problem is new powers form in the absence of stronger nations, so If the USA built a force-field on its coastlines, it new countries would vie for power. Sad as it may seem, even long term alliances like NATO would be unlikely to survive, as fear mixed with opportunism is a stimulant for empire. The USA, for all its evils, is the glue keeping the world from ripping at the seams. Its not an easy job, but multiple powers will compete, and the absence of powers will simply cause new powers to rise. One world power-the USA- may be hated and reviled, but the fall of the USA could cause horrible suffering around the globe.