Peace is a 4, i mean 5 letter word.

[Atomus]

Liberals:
Who was the worst president so far and why?
Conservatives:
Who was the worst president so far and why?

Hint: This will turn into a Clinton vs. W. Bush flame war within 9 posts. *Whistles*

[Hierophant]

Bush sucks.
Clinton was cool.

[witeshark]

I think it's really hard to pin down who's a good or crappy President. We gotta consider what each one had to work with

[Hierophant]

At 9/4/04 10:23 PM, witeshark wrote: I think it's really hard to pin down who's a good or crappy President. We gotta consider what each one had to work with

Your all for the judging by situation, aren't you? Alright.

1) Both had to deal with attacks on the world trade center.
2) Both got terror reports about it.
3) Clinton did something, and succeeded. Bush didn't do anything.
4) For Clinton, America was in debt, and he balaned it.
5) For Bush, America was not in debt, and he created a SEVERE debt.

To name a few. I got more.

[FUNKbrs]

At 9/4/04 09:32 PM, Master_Unlucky wrote: Bush sucks.
Clinton was cool.

Damn I'm glad I banned you.

[MoralLibertarian]

At 9/4/04 05:49 PM, Atomus wrote:

Conservatives:
Who was the worst president so far and why?

Jimmy Carter was a very ineffective modern leader. But he's a really great man.

I think Grant and Harding were the worst presidents.

I actually don't think Clinton was bad. He was an "inoffensive" president as far as his policies, and he was actually one of the most republican democrats in my view. Especially in his second term.

[Demosthenez]

Man I have trouble counting also. Those numbers are bitches.

Grant is by far the worst President.

Teddy Roosevelt is the best I think. A conversationist, trust buster, reformer, strong, not afraid of free speach, simple.

Nixon was not the worst President. He did some good things and some tremendously stupid ones. But he did not run a corrupt a ship as Grant did.

[bumcheekcity]

At 9/5/04 01:34 AM, mofomojo wrote: nixon was the worst... I mean he got kicked out... I trying to remember the word for that! I know so did Clinton but nixon got kicked out for a good reason... clinton r0X0r5, if he wasnt so sexually active he would've been best pres. eva

What does his libido actually have to do with his ability to run a country?

[hairy-tuba-dude]

At 9/5/04 01:48 AM, FAB0L0US wrote:

Teddy Roosevelt is the best I think. A conversationist, trust buster, reformer, strong, not afraid of free speach, simple.

... also a racist. Didn't want anything resembling equal rights. I'll try to find some links that discuss that issue...

My best Prez... Willson. This man made us into the nation we are today. Child labor laws, anti-trust laws, created the national reserve system, graduated tax laws, many laws regarding workers rights. Wilson did more for the comon man than any other president before or since. (Also beat Roosevelt out for the presidency.)

My worst Prez... Pierce. This is the man that turned the civil war/slavery/succesion debate into more than politics... bloodshead that started with "bleeding" Kansas. This is the pres that set that lovely ball rolling. Pierce almost destroyed the entire nation. He had no major bills passed during his time in office and though there was need for slave laws during that era he pussyfooted around the issue thus leaving the nation and its people to sort it out themselves. This man was a joke.

Quick references:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fp14.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/ww28.html

Here are a couple links that discuss Roosevelt as a racist... just for kicks:

http://www.americanpresident.org/history/theodoreroosevelt/
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/books/reviews/20020201_lundsgaard.html

[MoralLibertarian]

At 9/5/04 09:33 AM, BarferPro wrote: Bush was the worst I've seen in my lifetime. Clinton would have to the best though, next to FDR of course.

What did Clinton do? He had a republican Congress for a majority of his time in office and he couldn't accomplish a lot on his agenda.

The economy had very little to do with his economic policies. It was caused mostly by a boom in the dotcom industries.

He also contributed to a lot of things liberals don't believe in, like reducing the size of government, welfare reform, and using the armed forces for police work around the world. (We liked him most for these qualities. )

[FUNKbrs]

Well, Clinton DID lie under oath to the american people, and was IMPEACHED. Bush did the same thing, but he plays ignorant better than Clinton ever even THOUGHT about.

Clinton says " I did not have sex with that woman"
And noone believes him. We all know he's a sax playing pimp.

Bush says "Iraq has WMD"
And we all HONESTLY BELIEVE he is too stupid to tell the difference between an aspririn plant and a serin gas production center.

You tell me, who's the better president?

[BAWLS]

At 9/5/04 09:33 AM, BarferPro wrote: Bush was the worst I've seen in my lifetime. Clinton would have to the best though, next to FDR of course.

Why does everyone pretend that JFK never existed?

[JMHX]

At 9/5/04 06:57 AM, musicmaker234 wrote:

At 9/5/04 01:48 AM, FAB0L0US wrote:

Teddy Roosevelt is the best I think. A conversationist, trust buster, reformer, strong, not afraid of free speach, simple.

... also a racist. Didn't want anything resembling equal rights. I'll try to find some links that discuss that issue...

Roosevelt's stance on blacks and women were, for his time, considered somewhat progressive in that he did not believe blacks and women should be oppressed simply on the fact that they are blacks or women.

My best Prez... Willson. This man made us into the nation we are today. Child labor laws, anti-trust laws, created the national reserve system, graduated tax laws, many laws regarding workers rights. Wilson did more for the comon man than any other president before or since. (Also beat Roosevelt out for the presidency.)

Including the temporary repealing of the 1st Amendment, the Palmer Raids, detaining anyone who spoke out against him, and generally being ass-hattish.

My worst Prez... Pierce. This is the man that turned the civil war/slavery/succesion debate into more than politics... bloodshead that started with "bleeding" Kansas. This is the pres that set that lovely ball rolling. Pierce almost destroyed the entire nation.

It would have happened sooner or later.

[JMHX]

Just to add to the disussion, I'll put another dimension on this thread - I quite like it:

Best Democrat - Franklin Roosevelt
Worst Democrat - Jimmy Carter
Best Republican - Theodore Roosevelt
Worst Republican - Richard Nixon

I calculated it based on personal likeability in my eyes, as well as on merit, of things achieved well in office, of how they affected the prestige and respect of the office, and how history has judged them im the time since they left office.

While I like Bill Clinton very much as both a politician and a charismatic human being, his first term was very uneventful. This partly falls on the grounds of an unfriendly Congress and trying too hard to push health care in his first four years. His second term, while effective, was marred by Lewinsky. This general balancing act disqualifies him from both Best and Worst.

[Rabindarath]

At 9/5/04 06:57 AM, musicmaker234 wrote:

At 9/5/04 01:48 AM, FAB0L0US wrote:

Teddy Roosevelt is the best I think. A conversationist, trust buster, reformer, strong, not afraid of free speach, simple.

... also a racist. Didn't want anything resembling equal rights. I'll try to find some links that discuss that issue...

My best Prez... Willson. This man made us into the nation we are today. Child labor laws, anti-trust laws, created the national reserve system, graduated tax laws, many laws regarding workers rights. Wilson did more for the comon man than any other president before or since. (Also beat Roosevelt out for the presidency.)

But Wilson was pretty racist too. He institutionalised racism with government departments, torpedoed a clause in the League of Nations covenant regarding the equality of all races and peoples, and thought Griffith's film 'Birth of a Nation' was a masterpiece emblamatic of the nation.

FYI, I do have some sources on these in case anyone wants to challenge them, but I'm just running out the door now :)

My worst Prez... Pierce. This is the man that turned the civil war/slavery/succesion debate into more than politics... bloodshead that started with "bleeding" Kansas. This is the pres that set that lovely ball rolling. Pierce almost destroyed the entire nation. He had no major bills passed during his time in office and though there was need for slave laws during that era he pussyfooted around the issue thus leaving the nation and its people to sort it out themselves. This man was a joke.

Good points, but Buchanan was president when the slavery/states rights debate boiled over, and worst of all, he said that he disproved of the South seceeding, but said he couldn't do a thing about it.

Then he hoped the Supreme Court's Dred Scott decision would help everyone reach a compromise. Damn, what a gutless fuck.

Quick references:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fp14.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/ww28.html

Here are a couple links that discuss Roosevelt as a racist... just for kicks:

http://www.americanpresident.org/history/theodoreroosevelt/
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/books/reviews/20020201_lundsgaard.html

[hairy-tuba-dude]

At 9/5/04 02:59 PM, Rabindarath wrote:

At 9/5/04 06:57 AM, musicmaker234 wrote:

At 9/5/04 01:48 AM, FAB0L0US wrote:

Teddy Roosevelt is the best I think. A conversationist, trust buster, reformer, strong, not afraid of free speach, simple.

... also a racist. Didn't want anything resembling equal rights. I'll try to find some links that discuss that issue...

My best Prez... Willson. This man made us into the nation we are today. Child labor laws, anti-trust laws, created the national reserve system, graduated tax laws, many laws regarding workers rights. Wilson did more for the comon man than any other president before or since. (Also beat Roosevelt out for the presidency.)

But Wilson was pretty racist too. He institutionalised racism with government departments, torpedoed a clause in the League of Nations covenant regarding the equality of all races and peoples, and thought Griffith's film 'Birth of a Nation' was a masterpiece emblamatic of the nation.

I was just having a little fun with the racist theme... trying to show the bad side of things too. Most people of that era were racist to some extent... but I still like Wilson over Roosevelt. Roosevelt was very charismatic, so very much so that he still influences people today with his charm. (Bush has charmed his way into the presidency... not many other qualifications than that.) Wilson was much calmer, and more collected. Not quite as firey as Roosevelt, but just as effective a leader. Roosevelt's high on my list, but not on top of Wilson.

[fli]

At 9/5/04 02:00 PM, NotYouZ wrote:

At 9/5/04 09:33 AM, BarferPro wrote: Bush was the worst I've seen in my lifetime. Clinton would have to the best though, next to FDR of course.

Why does everyone pretend that JFK never existed?

He was a lovable guy... he was handsome, young, his wife was beautiful and fashionable-- they were our royalty of then. And his sudden death was tragic.

I seriously don't know what he did other then attack Cuba, and went to Vietnam-- both failures.

I think people love him because of the impression he created by people instead of the things he did.

[BAWLS]

At 9/5/04 08:20 PM, spanishfli wrote: I seriously don't know what he did other then attack Cuba, and went to Vietnam-- both failures.

I thought he only sent in special forces.

[Demosthenez]

At 9/5/04 06:57 AM, musicmaker234 wrote: My best Prez... Willson. This man made us into the nation we are today. Child labor laws, anti-trust laws, created the national reserve system, graduated tax laws, many laws regarding workers rights. Wilson did more for the comon man than any other president before or since. (Also beat Roosevelt out for the presidency.)

Umm, yeah. Everything I have to say has already been touched on, mostly. Lol, the best one, though, was calling Roosevelt a racist and leaving out the fact Wilson was one of the most racist presidents, period. A couple more: LoN-Worhless, Prohibition-NO BEER WTF!! BASTARD!!! Red Scare-dirty commies, Took FOREVER to go into WWI and remained neutral while definately supporting British and French and was unprepared for war despite knowing about it for 3 years. Let Russia turn Red. And guess who laid the way for all that trust busting, Roosevelt and Taft (uhhhhh, fat guy).

Roosevelt lost to him in the election cause he was running as a Bull-Moose, not because Wilson was a better candidate. If Teddy was running as a Republican, Wilson woulda had his ass handed to him. Teddy just simply disliked Taft and did not want him in office.

Wilson is definately a good Prez, but no where in the league of Roosevelt.

And I changed my mind. Thomas Jefferson is the best Prez cause he did the Louisana Purchase. Nuff said.

[JMHX]

JFK was great because he only had 1,000 days to screw up in.

[Demosthenez]

Aaaaamen.

[hairy-tuba-dude]

At 9/5/04 08:42 PM, FAB0L0US wrote:

Umm, yeah. Everything I have to say has already been touched on, mostly. Lol, the best one, though, was calling Roosevelt a racist and leaving out the fact Wilson was one of the most racist presidents, period.

I already said I was just trying to stir things up some. Not trying to incite some great thinking. I was just being an ass.

A couple more: LoN-Worhless, Prohibition-NO BEER WTF!! BASTARD!!! Red Scare-dirty commies, Took FOREVER to go into WWI and remained neutral while definately supporting British and French and was unprepared for war despite knowing about it for 3 years. Let Russia turn Red.

WWI was like the Iraq war for us in many ways. No one had overtly attacked us and the US tried to stay out of it and not loose American lives. We eventualy entered because of German U-boat tactics. I wouldn't cut on Wilson for that one. As for the Russians, its all great in hind sight. Wilson can't be held responsible for not going after Russia. He had no way of knowing how things would turn out. The Czars had been horrible before the Reds. At the time things looked like they were improving.

And guess who laid the way for all that trust busting, Roosevelt and Taft (uhhhhh, fat guy).

I know. Note: Roosevelt sought the help of party bosses to get elected to his second term. He sold out.

Roosevelt lost to him in the election cause he was running as a Bull-Moose, not because Wilson was a better candidate. If Teddy was running as a Republican, Wilson woulda had his ass handed to him. Teddy just simply disliked Taft and did not want him in office.

Roosevelt thought he could win, and he might have had he secured the nomination from the Republicans.

Wilson is definately a good Prez, but no where in the league of Roosevelt.

I'll still take Wilson.

[Demosthenez]

To each his own.

[Atomus]

At 9/5/04 02:56 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: Just to add to the disussion, I'll put another dimension on this thread - I quite like it:

Best Democrat - Franklin Roosevelt
Worst Democrat - Jimmy Carter
Best Republican - Theodore Roosevelt
Worst Republican - Richard Nixon

I think you should also consider having a best wig and worst wig....
Another thing you should take into account is that originally the Republican party was the more liberal (being anti-slavery) and the Democrats the conservative party. Somewhere along the way they switched.

I guess this goes to show peopl do the right things for tthe wrong reason, this thread I mean.

[JMHX]

At 9/6/04 08:28 PM, Atomus wrote:

At 9/5/04 02:56 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote:

I think you should also consider having a best wig and worst wig....

Best Wig: Washington
Worst Wig: Jefferson