Can the war on terror be won?

[Camarohusky]

Well...? Can it?

[Angry-Hatter]

At 9/1/04 02:29 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Well...? Can it?

What war? As far as I'm conserned it never started. It's a shame that you think that terror attacks happen/are planned every day.

How many people were killed by terror attacks in 2000? None. 2002? None. 2003? None. 2004 so far? None.

In 2001 there was aproximatly 3000 people killed by a terror attack, but it is still a small number compared to how many suicides and murders comitted in the US. The people of America are a bigger threat to you than terrorist.

[Matty233]

Do you really think you can eliminate all the terrorists in the WORLD??? You're talking the perfect world here, with no crime. It can't happen. But if you just mean Bush's war on terrorism, who knows when Bush will stop destroying third-world countries. The only hope I can see will be if Kerry wins, then it'll be over sooner.

[fli]

Well, Bush said that it can't at the RNC-- but later on he says it can...

I guess it just depends. Any response that will get people to vote for Bush, I guess...

[HappyBull]

At 9/1/04 02:57 AM, spanishfli wrote: Well, Bush said that it can't at the RNC-- but later on he says it can...

Wow, Bush is flip-flopping like Kerry? I guess Bush has been influenced! It amazes me that politicians can just, change their minds, instead to sticking to them.

[Quetzalcoatl-88]

It's pretty ironic that bush supporters are making fun of kerry for flip-flopping, and yet bush is doing the same thing.

[oscilate-wildely]

a war on a peoples state of mind and an abstract idea can never be won. the war on terror just means the war on any nation that does not bow to america. it will never end

[TruthSpeak]

At 9/1/04 02:42 AM, Angry_Hatter wrote:

At 9/1/04 02:29 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Well...? Can it?

What war? As far as I'm conserned it never started. It's a shame that you think that terror attacks happen/are planned every day.

Lack of intelligence is going to be your downfall, I can see it now.

How many people were killed by terror attacks in 2000? None.

2000 (Oct.): Bombing of the USS Cole in port in Yemen; 17 U.S. sailors killed.

2002? None.

2002 (Apr.): Explosion at historic synagogue in Tunisia leaves 21 dead, including 14 German tourists.

2002 (May): Car explodes outside hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14, including 11 French citizens.

2002 (June): Bomb explodes outside American Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.

2002 (Oct.): Nightclub bombings in Bali, Indonesia, kill 202, mostly Australian citizens.

2002 (Nov.): Suicide attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, kills 16.

2003? None.

2003 (May): Suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

2003 (May): Four bombs kill 24 people, targeting Jewish, Spanish, and Belgian sites in Casablanca, Morocco.

2003 (Aug.): Suicide car bomb kills 12, injures 150, at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.

2003 (Nov.): Explosions rock a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia housing compound killing 17.

2003 (Nov.): Suicide car bombers simultaneously attack two synagogues in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 25 and injuring hundreds.

2004 so far? None.

2004 (Mar.): Ten terrorists bombs exploded almost simultaneously during the morning rush hour in Madrid, Spain, killing 202 and injuring more than 1,400.

2004 (May): Terrorist attack Saudi oil company offices in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, killing 22.

2004 (June): Terrorist kidnap and execute American Paul Johnson Jr., in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

Next time you want to say something, don't

[shorbe]

Angry Hatter: Are you serious? Terrorism has been around for a lot longer than 911. That wasn't the defining moment of terrorism. Some countries in this world have been dealing with it for decades and have a massive casualty count.

I don't think that this War on Terror can be won. It's too nebulous a concept, and even if it were better defined or able to be defined, I still think people are going about it in the wrong way. That having been said, I think the people who are terrorists are usually opportunistic wackos trying to manipulate others. I don't think the US and the west are right on a lot of things, but I hardly think terrorist organisations, whether we're talking Al Qaeda, IRA, ETA, etc. are righteous in any way.

What I find more interesting than "can it be won?" though is the question of whether anyone actually wants it to be won. Okay, that seems like a weird thing to say. However, I really don't think the powers that be want this so-called War on Terror to end, which is perhaps why it's so nebulous to begin with. They'll never catch Osama, or perhaps I should rephrase that and say they'll never come out and say they've caught him. He's more use at large than in captivity. If, for instance, he were caught and shown captive on TV, a lot of people would believe that the War on Terror was somewhat over, and they'd expect a lowering of the hype and a return of civil liberties. Likewise, they'd also wonder why there's so much money and effort being poured into the military and the friends of politicians in such industries. As long as Osama is at large though, and as long as there's someone, anyone (who cares who it is, just give us someone to fear and hate), in some place, any place, that's plotting something, anything, well then, it's business as usual and the contracts and kickbacks roll in.

So no, I don't think this war can be won because it's not meant to be won. How cynical of me, I know. What I actually find incredibly surprising is that weapons of mass destruction and explicit documents linking Osama and Saddam weren't found in Iraq. I was sure they'd be found even if they had to be planted there in the first place! I don't understand why the US and British governments would take so much crap for this when it would have been so much easier for them to do this. The media being the whores that they are would have run with it and no one would have been any the wiser. The public would have bought it wholesale in the main. The whole thing makes no sense to me at all.

These guys aren't really very good at what they do. Hell, I say kick Bush out for no other reason than the fact that he's a pretty piss poor despot. If you're going to get someone, don't be half-arsed about it. Get someone who's really Machiavellian. Make Cheney the president so people can really have someone to bitch about.

[The-Deadly-Spoon]

At 9/1/04 10:59 AM, TruthSpeak wrote: Next time you want to say something, don't

ouch!..

on topic:
No it cannot be won, but for Bush admitting that at this time was a stupid move.

War on terrorism is just like the war on drugs, you cant win it, you have to erase the problem that started the whole deal.
In the case of drugs its the facts that drugs are illegal, and that a lot of people use them, take one of those two out of the equasion and the whole problem falls apart. In the case of terrorism, its poverty and US arrogant foreign policy, same deal here, only these two are harder to do something about.
Oh and guess what, the Bush administration benefits from keeping both wars raging on, to keep the public afraid, the media attention distracted and offcourse to keep making money off the military industry.
Yeah America is that fucked up.

[Montgomery-Scott]

The war on terror is truely having a negative effect on Terrorisim. In fact, official statistics show that terrorisim has been on the INCREASE since this idiotic half-assed war on terror has started. And TruthSpeak, don't even say that "the whitehouse statistics said that terror declined" because they were LIES. The Whitehouse had submitted statistics that were WRONG. And when independent observers mentioned this, they said "oops, mistakes happen". The "war on terror" consists of fun colored alerts and imposing ourselves on other nations. I have no problem with part @, as i don't give a shit wheather the alert is green or bright purple. but part B, imposing ourselves on other nations is BAD. It creates MORE terrorisim. here is the sequence of events, like the ones that happened in iraq:
1. the us invades iraq and crushes the opposition
2. we do a bad job of getting inferstructur back together, and people are left without light, water, or law, or food.
3. People get pretty pissed off at the US, and when teh Al Quieda recruiter comes around, they are all like "hell yeah, i'd love to fly a plane into some US building".

That's your war on terror. Plus, we pissed off most of europe, destroying the good reputation presidents like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton worked so hard to build up.

[The-Deadly-Spoon]

At 9/1/04 11:11 AM, shorbe wrote: all true stuff

at first I thought WOAH an American who actually sees how his gouvernment is screwing everybody up the butt but then I read your Profile and saw you're from Australia.. My hope for America is shattered once more.

Oh and I think they didnt plan the documents because the risk was too big. I mean think of what would happen if they planted it and the truth came out. It would be a 100 times bigger than Watergate.

[The-Last-Cynic]

That's ironic being how the government supports abstinence only education.

[The-Deadly-Spoon]

At 9/1/04 12:46 PM, Tal-con wrote: I think alot of liberals realize how much we're being screwed, check this pic

lol thats cool.. I just hope enough people feel like this so Bush wont get re-elected.

[ShotInTheHead]

At 9/1/04 01:18 PM, The_Deadly_Spoon wrote:

lol thats cool.. I just hope enough people feel like this so Bush wont get re-elected.

same here

[TruthSpeak]

At 9/1/04 11:22 AM, Quanze13 wrote: The war on terror is truely having a negative effect on Terrorisim. In fact, official statistics show that terrorisim has been on the INCREASE since this idiotic half-assed war on terror has started.

It would be increasing anyway. Thats what terrorist organizations do. Better we increase it under our terms so we can kill more of it under our terms.

THINK!

And TruthSpeak, don't even say that "the whitehouse statistics said that terror declined" because they were LIES. The Whitehouse had submitted statistics that were WRONG. And when independent observers mentioned this, they said "oops, mistakes happen". The "war on terror" consists of fun colored alerts and imposing ourselves on other nations. I have no problem with part @, as i don't give a shit wheather the alert is green or bright purple. but part B, imposing ourselves on other nations is BAD. It creates MORE terrorisim. here is the sequence of events, like the ones that happened in iraq:
1. the us invades iraq and crushes the opposition
2. we do a bad job of getting inferstructur back together, and people are left without light, water, or law, or food.
3. People get pretty pissed off at the US, and when teh Al Quieda recruiter comes around, they are all like "hell yeah, i'd love to fly a plane into some US building".

It took over a hundred years and a Civil War to set up a government in the United States.

It took 50 years to set up a government in Germany.

We've been in Iraq for 2 years, and its a failure??? Learn history, because you seem to think it started with Bush.

That's your war on terror. Plus, we pissed off most of europe, destroying the good reputation presidents like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton worked so hard to build up.

The only country in Europe we need to be friends with is Britain. France Germany and Russia can have there little weapons contracts with the enemy...I dont care. They can stand idly by while Saddam skims millions of dollars off oil for food programs. I dont care.

And you can support them...I dont care...beacuse I dont concern myself with morons and the countries they support.

[Montgomery-Scott]

OK, so what you are saying is that better that we increase the nubmber of terrorists so we have an excuse to kill more arab people???
I'm not saying that Iraq was a failure, I'm just saying that The lack of law and order there has made it a breeding ground for terrorists.
And In Britan, next elections, a very anti-america pm is going to be voted in, as in britan, only about 25% of people are pro america. yeah, there goes your precious allience with britan.
And please, I've been telling you this over and over, can we keep this civil?? Calling your opponents morons doesn't debunk their points or solve anything. It just pises them off.

[Phineus]

At 9/1/04 04:57 PM, TruthSpeak wrote:
The only country in Europe we need to be friends with is Britain. France Germany and Russia can have there little weapons contracts with the enemy...I dont care. They can stand idly by while Saddam skims millions of dollars off oil for food programs. I dont care.

And you can support them...I dont care...beacuse I dont concern myself with morons and the countries they support.

Actually, Russia is in the Asia sector of the world, but that's just nit-picking

Oh, and would you concern yourself with morons if one of the was pointing a gun in your face?

[ShotInTheHead]

At 9/1/04 04:57 PM, TruthSpeak wrote:

The only country in Europe we need to be friends with is Britain.

wait a minute. thats a fuckin lie. we need mo allies. we dont need 2/3 of the world hating us.
France Germany and Russia can have there little weapons contracts with the enemy...I dont care.
whos the enemy? bush MADE saddam the enemy. saddam never threatened us. he never tried. there were no WMD's and there were never going to be. yes he was evel, be we should have WAITED ad set up alliances and mooched on other countries money.

so this is the second time that...

omg i love that pic. lol

[Montgomery-Scott]

red, i'll give you 2:1 odds that TruthSpeak attacks your spelling and gramar/

[ShotInTheHead]

i second that cuz this keyboard cost me $1 and i opend it with a screwdriver 3 times.

[Montgomery-Scott]

wow, i think hitting TruthSpeak with the reality stick finally killed him.

[TruthSpeak]

; At 9/1/04 05:04 PM, ReD-VII wrote:

wait a minute. thats a fuckin lie. we need mo allies. we dont need 2/3 of the world hating us.

They will be on our side when they keep getting attacked by islamic extremists like Russia and Spain are.

In the meantime, we dont need them. They supported Saddam Houssein by selling him weapons (france, germany, russia) - they are in time out right now.

There are over 30 countries supporting us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thats all we need right now. The other countries will come around when they start getting smacked around by abused, virgin loving muslims.

whos the enemy? bush MADE saddam the enemy. saddam never threatened us. he never tried. there were no WMD's and there were never going to be. yes he was evel, be we should have WAITED ad set up alliances and mooched on other countries money.

Never threatened us? He killed our soldiers in the Gulf War. He attacks our ally (israel) constantly, He broke the cease fire treaty we set up at the end of GW1. he kicked out weapons inspectors. Russia had intelligence that said he was planning terrorist attacks against the United States.

Nobody made Saddam the enemy except Saddam.

Go beat off with your stick, you need it for two reasons.

[bumcheekcity]

Yes, and it will NOT be won by eradicating the enemy. It will be won by stopping the enemy from hating you. That is the only way.

The US Government has tried and tried to destroy all the terrorists. They have failed. The Russians have tried to elimanate the Chechens. They failed.

The English, in the 1600s, tried to defeat the French. They failed. Then, later on, they made friends, and England and France enjoy trade relations and a friendly diplomatic stance with each other.

We must remove the motive from the terrorists. Killing one will only make another two stand up to fight their cause.

[TruthSpeak]

At 9/1/04 05:16 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: Yes, and it will NOT be won by eradicating the enemy. It will be won by stopping the enemy from hating you. That is the only way.

The US Government has tried and tried to destroy all the terrorists. They have failed. The Russians have tried to elimanate the Chechens. They failed.

The English, in the 1600s, tried to defeat the French. They failed. Then, later on, they made friends, and England and France enjoy trade relations and a friendly diplomatic stance with each other.

We must remove the motive from the terrorists. Killing one will only make another two stand up to fight their cause.

Yes, give them all flowers and freshly baked cookies.

THEY DONT GIVE A FUCK...IF WE ARENT DEAD, THEY'RE MISSION ISNT COMPLETE. They will not negotiate, they will not back down, they will only die. You cannot negotiate with terrorists, you can only kill them. And thats what we will do. When two stand in their place, we will kill both of them.

You sir, are a moron and a pussy.

[Gooie]

At 9/1/04 05:17 PM, TruthSpeak wrote: Yes, give them all flowers and freshly baked cookies.

THEY DONT GIVE A FUCK...IF WE ARENT DEAD, THEY'RE MISSION ISNT COMPLETE. They will not negotiate, they will not back down, they will only die. You cannot negotiate with terrorists, you can only kill them. And thats what we will do. When two stand in their place, we will kill both of them.

Exactly, and thats the problem people here FAIL to see that, you seen the beheadings they don't give a fuck about Americans we probably won't kill them all, but we will atleast try, we won't sit back on our asses getting our cocks suked like Clinton.

[ShotInTheHead]

At 9/1/04 05:15 PM, TruthSpeak wrote:

They will be on our side when they keep getting attacked by islamic extremists like Russia and Spain are.

In the meantime, we dont need them. They supported Saddam Houssein by selling him weapons (france, germany, russia) - they are in time out right now.

so are u sayign we shoudl war with russia again? hmm sounds good. lets do it all over again!!!! weeeeeeee *NUKE*

There are over 30 countries supporting us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thats all we need right now. The other countries will come around when they start getting smacked around by abused, virgin loving muslims.

and most of those countries have no weapons or money. so you have been lied to. its only britain and us really.

Never threatened us? He killed our soldiers in the Gulf War. He attacks our ally (israel) constantly, He broke the cease fire treaty we set up at the end of GW1. he kicked out weapons inspectors. Russia had intelligence that said he was planning terrorist attacks against the United States.

that war has been over. taht was in the past. that is in the past. and it was supposed to remain in the past.
and weps inspectors were kicked out cuz they were n there already. a lot.

Nobody made Saddam the enemy except Saddam.

Nobody made Saddam the enemy except BUSH

Go beat off with your stick, you need it for two reasons.

well forget the stick.

[Phineus]

At 9/1/04 05:17 PM, TruthSpeak wrote:

You sir, are a moron and a pussy.

Hhhmmm. Well, I would like to have a intelligent conversation with you on the matters being disccussed here, but when someone says things like the above, it tends to undermine any credibility your arguements may have.

There's no need to respond to my post, as it was just an observation.

[Montgomery-Scott]

yeah, keeping it civil is important when debating sensitive topics.

[ShotInTheHead]

At 9/1/04 05:17 PM, TruthSpeak wrote: You sir, are a moron and a pussy.

thats what i expect of mindless bush supporters.