Do whatever it takes.

[FatherVenom]

Ok so I was watching the news recently and this story came on about some American killing abortion doctors and then setting off a pipe bomb in a clinic. I was appalled at first, but then I started to admire these militant anit-abortionists. They are willing to do what ever it takes. I don't admire what they chose to do with their resolve but the fact that they had it.

What's your take on such actions and doing anything to see your goals accomplished?

Please note, this shouldn't become a purely abortion or terrorist thread.

[Memorize]

well i do think that abortion is wrong, but they shouldnt have done what they did, its not really going to solve anything.

[Camarohusky]

Hmmm... I look at fanaticism with a great deal of caution.

I do admire any fanatic's will. I mean there are a few qualities that I hold very high, will and perserverance is one of them. I treat life like I would a sports game, fought hard to the last minute and to the last breath and to the extent of my endurance.

And though I respect the idea of fighting to the last breath and doing whatever it takes, I still belive in a word that should govern evrything a person does. This word is germane. I believe that there is a time and a place fro everything we do, and with many of the things that people have done and think of doing, there is no time or place. Fanaticism many times, blows away this word in a blind uncompromising, closed minded, and just plain shallow will to make the world, your surroundings, etc. do what you want or be the way you want it to be.

I also think that in most cases fanaticism is very selfish and slef centered. To believe that what you say is the ultimate right and that everythnig everyone else does is wrong is a very selfish idea.

So in closing, I like the mindset, but I disagree with many of the actions and many of the reasons and egos that come with being fanatical.

[TheShrike]

Yes, we want you to stop killing, so now we will kill you.

A very direct approach.
A very hypocritical approach.
Sadly, sometimes a very necessary approach.

However, true to the nature of the human spirit, I fully support the murder of terrorists.

Go figure.

[witeshark]

Is it not a fuckin contradiction to bomb an abortion clinic? At what point did killing Fucking become acceptable? Oh, wait, there's an over population issue now, I guess it really makes no difference

[TurkM938]

Compromise on this issue will never be found so long as militant factions are permitted to voice their views with violence.

[lapslf]

Blowing yourself up is stupid. Life is short enough already.

Except when you're a gothic. Than it's okay.

[Montgomery-Scott]

the real issue here is weather the ends always justify the means, and i think that they don't. A just ends making an ugly means right is the whole basis of fanaticisim. And I really think that violence should be the last resort in these matters.

[FatherVenom]

At 8/31/04 03:14 PM, Quanze13 wrote: the real issue here is weather the ends always justify the means

No it's not. The point isn't whether anything gets done, it's just whether or not people have the balls to do what they think is necessary.

Veggie, the people didn't kill themselves with the pipe bomb.

[Montgomery-Scott]

At 8/31/04 03:16 PM, FatherVenom wrote:

At 8/31/04 03:14 PM, Quanze13 wrote: the real issue here is weather the ends always justify the means

No it's not. The point isn't whether anything gets done, it's just whether or not people have the balls to do what they think is necessary.

This issue SO IS ends vs means, weather the ends of, for example, saving unborn babies justifies the means of, for example, blowing up an abortion clinic with a pipe bomb and killing abortion doctors. You say that it is wheather people have the guts to do what they think is nessecarry, which is usually an evil act to further a good cause. It is ends vs means.

[MuShrOomBastard]

At 8/31/04 12:33 AM, FatherVenom wrote: I was appalled at first, but then I started to admire these militant anit-abortionists.

Do you admire palestinian suicide bombers too?

[FatherVenom]

At 8/31/04 03:25 PM, Quanze13 wrote: This issue SO IS ends vs means

My thread = my ideas, although normal evolution of the idea is acceptable you just aren't going in the right direction. I'll grant that it's similar but I'll tell you why it isn't. The most recent examples of people trying to achieve ends by certain means have been fruitless. 9/11 for example had the opposite affect of what the terrorists wanted. The pipe bomb didn't stop abortion from being legal or done, just ended some lives. I'm saying don't even look at what they accomplished, if they tried to bomb someplace but the bomb was a dud it would still fit in this category of absolute resolve.

[FatherVenom]

At 8/31/04 03:47 PM, MuShrOomBastard wrote: Do you admire palestinian suicide bombers too?

Anybody who gets out there and does something they think is right should be respected, even republicans.

[MuShrOomBastard]

At 8/31/04 03:49 PM, FatherVenom wrote:

At 8/31/04 03:47 PM, MuShrOomBastard wrote: Do you admire palestinian suicide bombers too?

Anybody who gets out there and does something they think is right should be respected, even republicans.

I almost agree with you. Republicans can never be respected :P

[Montgomery-Scott]

I respect those bombers because they have the guts to blow themselves up for a cause, but i despise them because what they are doing to try to further their cause is bad.

[antiklaus]

However, true to the nature of the human spirit, I fully support the murder of terrorists.

Which terrorists? The abortion bombers, the freedom fighters trying to liberate their country from occupation, or the invaders who are willing to overthrow an unfriendy government to get access to their resources?

I can't make out these fanatics lately without some kind of scorecard...

[ZeroAsALimit]

I am neutral towards terrorism, but it is interesting (for me) to note that nihilists used to very frequently be terrorists.

[evilXbanana]

No matter how you feel about fanatics, NO ONES OPINION IS WORTH A HUMAN LIFE. especially not for something like abortion.

fanatic: YOUR KILLING INNOCENT BABIES!
doctor: no, we are allowing people to get thier life back on track from one mistake.
fanatic: GRRRRRR I DISAGREE! <BOOM>

the whole idea of dying for a cause that really only exists in the eye of the beholder is completely retarded.

[ZeroAsALimit]

Alrighty, how is terrorism "wrong" then ?

[Montgomery-Scott]

because killing is, well, wrong. It is bad to take another human live, and not even a good cause will justify it, let alone abortion.

[Agla-Aaron]

As Pro-lief and Anti-abortion as I am, I think they did a very bad thing. Those doctors ended human life before the life had a chance to do any thing wrong. (In my opinoin)

(In my opinoin) Abortion is moraly wrong, but it'sd legal, so far.
Those doctors were not stepping over any legal line. They still had the right to live. They werent doing any thing out side the law.

I'm against abortion, and I'm a devote Christtion. But I'm not a bible beater(Or a Bible-thumping shit-hat, as one member put it.), I preach to those who only want to hear it. please, don't any one assotiate me with these hate mongers that killed these doctors.
I in no way condone the acts of the anti-abortionist. This is not the way you go about trying to do away with it.

These people who murdered these doctors have given the liberals, and the Democrates another word to call the pro-lifers, terrorist. This is just great.

[Agla-Aaron]

At 8/31/04 12:45 AM, witeshark wrote: Is it not a fuckin contradiction to bomb an abortion clinic? At what point did killing Fucking become acceptable? Oh, wait, there's an over population issue now, I guess it really makes no difference

There is no over population issue, this is one of the excuses some of the abortionist use. What most dont realize is that if you took every person on earth and stood them sholder to sholder in a single area, they would only cover an area slightly larger then Ney York state. It's just that large numbers of people crowed into single areas like tokyo, new york city, and other places and it only seems like over population

[SteveGuzzi]

At 8/31/04 12:33 AM, FatherVenom wrote: Ok so I was watching the news recently and this story came on about some American killing abortion doctors and then setting off a pipe bomb in a clinic. I was appalled at first, but then I started to admire these militant anit-abortionists. They are willing to do what ever it takes.

pipe-bombing is not what it takes to accomplish anything. sporadic acts of misguided zealotry NEVER create enduring influence, only temporary fear.

[Blackmagic]

At 8/31/04 12:45 AM, TheShrike wrote: Yes, we want you to stop killing, so now we will kill you.

A very direct approach.
A very hypocritical approach.
Sadly, sometimes a very necessary approach.

However, true to the nature of the human spirit, I fully support the murder of terrorists.

Go figure.

Pretty much what I was going to say.

[XcakerX]

doing whatever it takes is extremely relivant to what you have to loose.

When you are getting shot at for instance, say being in the 'hood, or in Iraq or some place like, its you, or the guy 100 meters down range. He might not be shooting at you right now, but he might come for you later, when you are not prepared.

When and where, and your cause is irrelevant, stay alive, shoot the bastard. He might be doing the same thing you are, by shooting at you, but hey its war. Its you are him, as a human being you always have the personal right to choose yourself to live. Doesn't matter, if you are in a gang, solider in a war, etc... you are going to do what it takes to make yourself, and your comrades safe.

When we talk about uneccerray killing, theese people had no right.

Not under law

Not under the christian morales they supposedly adhere to.(turn the other cheek, He who is innocent shall cast the first stone)

Gotta strech rational thinking a little.

[FatherVenom]

At 8/31/04 08:07 PM, Quanze13 wrote: because killing is, well, wrong. It is bad to take another human live, and not even a good cause will justify it, let alone abortion.

One life to save six billion though? I wouldn't even say that would be a contest.

At 8/31/04 08:45 PM, gravity-is-merciless wrote: pipe-bombing is not what it takes to accomplish anything. sporadic acts of misguided zealotry NEVER create enduring influence, only temporary fear.

Looks like you didn't read any further than that. The ends are not the focus of this topic.

[fli]

Those types of people are very two-face: Pro-life, but they kill?

Perhaps they should take a different stance, one that wouldn't make them look stupider already...

[Camarohusky]

These people have become so in love their cause that they have abandoned all reason and reality in supporting it and acting upon it. If they would just step back, think abotu what they do and then used the same tenacity and perserverance in their acts, then it would be better. Take the civil rights movement. Very little violence happened by the protagonists, yet they were still very fanatical about what they wanted. They wanted equality and they were not going to stop until they got it.

[Matty233]

At 8/31/04 08:07 PM, Quanze13 wrote: because killing is, well, wrong. It is bad to take another human live, and not even a good cause will justify it, let alone abortion.

But abortion is taking another human life, no matter how undevelloped it is. But don't get me wrong, if you wake up to a girl in the morning with a hangover and she tells you she's pregnant a month later and you're still in university, sometimes the extreme case must be done. But there used to be Olympic athletes that got pregnant before the olympics (so they were 1-2 months pregnant during the olympics) which put thier bodies in naturally better form with the pre-birth hormones and all, and they couldn't get busted for it, because it wasn't a drug. Then after, they'd get an abortion. Now that's just wrong. But going back to the main topic, those extremists could have done something a little less extreme, although you do have to admire their courage and faith in what they believe in...

[FatherVenom]

At 9/1/04 02:28 AM, Camarohusky wrote: These people have become so in love their cause that they have abandoned all reason and reality in supporting it and acting upon it.

You fail to see the reason behind it? It's not that hard. They want something to stop so they take steps to make it stop within the sphere of their influence, unless they are advocating a position, like an evironmentalist rescuing animals or some other such thing.

At 9/1/04 03:09 AM, Matty233 wrote: But abortion is taking another human life,

Damnit! This isn't an abortion thread.