Gop Sez - "Suppress Black Vote"

[antiklaus]

Last month John Pappageorge, a Republican state representative in Michigan, told a journalist that the Republicans would do poorly if they failed to “suppress the Detroit vote.” Detroit, of course, is 83% black.[1]

Democratic officials expressed their outrage, and Pappageorge eventually apologized for his words, but his statement spoke to a bigger truth: Republicans continue to actively suppress black and minority votes in order to win elections through intimidation, misinformation, and tampering with voter rolls and records.

In 2000, the black voters who were not allowed to vote would have certainly swung the election in Al Gore’s favor. And the practice continues: a recent report from the NAACP and the People for the American Way Foundation documents suppression tactics in use right now.[2]

Just last week, Bob Herbert of the New York Times wrote a column describing armed, plain-clothes officers from the Florida state police (which reports directly to Governor Jeb Bush) going into the homes of elderly black voters and interrogating them, supposedly as part of an investigation into voter fraud.

Several of those questioned were members of the Orlando League of Voters, a group that has been very successful in mobilizing the city's black vote. According to Herbert, this supposed "investigation" has resulted in a blanket of fear, leaving organizers afraid to work and voters afraid of contact with campaign workers.[3]

Four years ago, Florida election officials removed over 52,000 voters from the rolls under the guise of “cleansing” the list of felons. Over 90% of those purged were not guilty of any crime and 54% were African-American, a group which, in Florida, are likely to vote Democratic over 90% of the time.[4]

The company that provided the purge list warned Florida officials that thousands of eligible voters would likely be disenfranchised in the process, but Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State who also served as state campaign manager for George W. Bush, went forward with the purge anyway. The result was thousands of voters not allowed to vote in an election that was decided by just over 600 votes.

It’s not just Florida. A joint report from People for the American Way Foundation and the NAACP "The Long Shadow of Jim Crow: Voter Intimidation and Suppression in America Today" highlights recent attempts to suppress African-American and minority voting, documenting instances of the following:[5]

Challenges and threats against individual voters at the polls by armed private guards, off-duty law enforcement officers, local creditors, fake poll monitors, and poll workers and managers.
Signs posted at the polling place warning of penalties for “voter fraud” or “non-citizen” voting, or illegally urging support for a candidate.
Poll workers “helping” voters fill out their ballots, and instructing them on how to vote.
Criminal tampering with voter registration rolls and records.
Fliers and radio ads containing false information about where, when and how to vote, voter eligibility, and the false threat of penalties.
Internal memos from party officials in which the explicit goal of suppressing black voter turnout is outlined

In 2003, in Pennsylvania, men with clipboards bearing official-looking insignias were reportedly dispatched to African American neighborhoods. Tom Lindenfeld, who ran a counter-intimidation campaign for Democratic candidate John Street, said there were 300 cars with the decals resembling such federal agencies as the DEA and ATF and that the men were asking prospective voters for identification. In a post-election poll of 1000 African-American voters, seven percent said they had encountered such efforts.

In 2002, in Louisiana, fliers were distributed in African American communities stating, “‘Vote!!! Bad Weather? No problem!!! If the weather is uncomfortable on election day [Saturday, December 7th], remember you can wait and cast your ballot on Tuesday, December 10th.” In a separate incident, apparently targeting potential supporters of Democratic Senator Mary Landrieu, the Louisiana Republican Party admitted to paying African American youths $75 to hold signs aloft on street corners in black neighborhoods that appeared to discourage African-Americans from voting.

Last month, in South Dakota, Native American voters were sent to the wrong polling places, and given misleading information about the ID they need to vote.[6]

1 ttp://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw101420_20040721.htm
2 http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16368
3 http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/081704C.shtml
(original: http://nytimes.com/2004/08/16/opinion/16herbert.html?hp)
4 http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040517&s=palast
5 http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16399
6 http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16362

It's clear - they are trying to do a repeat of Florida 2000 - victory through intimidation and deceit - does this bother anyone?

[BeFell]

Great sources now I'll go get stuff to respond with from Fox News the Drudge Report and just for shits and giggles Rush's site.

[antiklaus]

At 8/26/04 11:10 PM, BeFell wrote: Great sources now I'll go get stuff to respond with from Fox News the Drudge Report and just for shits and giggles Rush's site.

The New York Times too much for you?

[Blackmagic]

At 8/26/04 10:52 PM, antiklaus wrote:

Republicans continue to actively suppress black and minority votes in order to win elections through intimidation, misinformation, and tampering with voter rolls and records.

We have ALWAYS known this. Always.

[JMHX]

At 8/26/04 11:10 PM, BeFell wrote: Great sources now I'll go get stuff to respond with from Fox News the Drudge Report and just for shits and giggles Rush's site.

Drudge, statistically, is very centrist. He's my first-responder news source. Just be sure to cross-check the stories he posts.

[fli]

OMFG!!! You mean the government is unfair to Blacks?

[BeFell]

At 8/26/04 11:22 PM, antiklaus wrote:

At 8/26/04 11:10 PM, BeFell wrote: Great sources now I'll go get stuff to respond with from Fox News the Drudge Report and just for shits and giggles Rush's site.

The New York Times too much for you?

An editorial is an opinion.

[witeshark]

Well The popular vote is, well I think this is old news

[Camarohusky]

At 8/26/04 11:39 PM, spanishfli wrote: OMFG!!! You mean the government is unfair to Blacks?

No fucking way! They keep on giving them damn negros and them brown beaner peoples all of these advantages over us good Crhistian white people. I mean, if the government were truely equal they'd let us white people rule all them damn spics and n*****s!... Shit, damn Democrats... ; )

[Camarohusky]

Sorry for my language but sometimes stupidity needs them bad words to fully represent itself.

[fli]

At 8/27/04 12:09 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Sorry for my language but sometimes stupidity needs them bad words to fully represent itself.

LOL...

[Jimsween]

At 8/26/04 10:52 PM, antiklaus wrote: In 2000, the black voters who were not allowed to vote would have certainly swung the election in Al Gore’s favor. And the practice continues: a recent report from the NAACP and the People for the American Way Foundation documents suppression tactics in use right now.[2]

They were allowed to vote, they just needed to re-register, and they were informed of the fact that they had been accidentally taken off the list and needed to re-register long before the vote.

Just last week, Bob Herbert of the New York Times wrote a column describing armed, plain-clothes officers from the Florida state police (which reports directly to Governor Jeb Bush) going into the homes of elderly black voters and interrogating them, supposedly as part of an investigation into voter fraud.

Weren't you just posting in Befell's topic about a ton of elderly people voting twice?

Several of those questioned were members of the Orlando League of Voters, a group that has been very successful in mobilizing the city's black vote. According to Herbert, this supposed "investigation" has resulted in a blanket of fear, leaving organizers afraid to work and voters afraid of contact with campaign workers.[3]

Several? Well I'll be darned. You know.... I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that the Orlando League of Voters has alot of old people.... could that, perhaps, be why some of the old people questioned were in it?

Four years ago, Florida election officials removed over 52,000 voters from the rolls under the guise of “cleansing” the list of felons. Over 90% of those purged were not guilty of any crime and 54% were African-American, a group which, in Florida, are likely to vote Democratic over 90% of the time.[4]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0527-03.htm
"Records show that DBT told the state it would not use race as a criterion to identify felons. The list itself bears that out: More than 1,000 voters were matched with felons though they were of different races. "

And as I stated before, most of the accidentally purged voters were notified months before the election.

The company that provided the purge list warned Florida officials that thousands of eligible voters would likely be disenfranchised in the process, but Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State who also served as state campaign manager for George W. Bush, went forward with the purge anyway. The result was thousands of voters not allowed to vote in an election that was decided by just over 600 votes.

Thats because the old system let thousands of Felons vote. In one election a dead guy voted. I really reccommend you read that Palm Beach Post article.

Signs posted at the polling place warning of penalties for “voter fraud” or “non-citizen” voting, or illegally urging support for a candidate.

Are you implying that black people not... citizens... or something... because otherwise I see nothing wrong with signs posting warnings about penalties of those things. And while I don't believe people running votes should be allowed to post signs about the candidate they want, there are signs everywhere, if people are swayed by a sign, then they aren't worth my time worrying about them. And as long as we still let votes happen in non-government facilities, that will happen.

Poll workers “helping” voters fill out their ballots, and instructing them on how to vote.

Old people can be pretty damn stupid, remember Florida?

Really pointless.... but I don't see why they should be scared away from voting because it seems like the the DEA/ATF is asking for thier ID.

It's clear - they are trying to do a repeat of Florida 2000 - victory through intimidation and deceit - does this bother anyone?

Most of this happened years ago, you haven't shown much evidence that they are trying to do with one through inimidation, or that they did the last one that way. Why doesn't it bother you that you copy/pasted every part of your topic?

[theburningliberal]

At 8/27/04 12:09 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Sorry for my language but sometimes stupidity needs them bad words to fully represent itself.

Very true...

[Taxman2A]

At 8/26/04 11:22 PM, antiklaus wrote:

At 8/26/04 11:10 PM, BeFell wrote: Great sources now I'll go get stuff to respond with from Fox News the Drudge Report and just for shits and giggles Rush's site.

The New York Times too much for you?

lol... yeah, the NY Times editorials! look at the URL, it even has the word "opinion" in it.

[bumcheekcity]

At 8/29/04 11:01 PM, Taxman2A wrote: lol... yeah, the NY Times editorials! look at the URL, it even has the word "opinion" in it.

And if it was a conservative opinion, you'd be hailing it as the greatest thing since sliced bread....

[antiklaus]

July 21, 2004, 5:05 PM

DETROIT (AP) -- Democrats on Wednesday denounced a Republican lawmaker quoted in a newspaper as saying the GOP would fare poorly in this year's elections if it failed to "suppress the Detroit vote."

FYI - If you are going to doubt the Associated Press, you may as well doubt the existence of the moon.

--- if you will actually change your views I will come up with MORE conservative-friendly links. but if you are going to pull a Befell and proclaim AFTER you ask for the link "irrelevant" I'm not going to waste my time.

[Raptorman]

At 8/30/04 07:06 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 8/29/04 11:01 PM, Taxman2A wrote:

And if it was a conservative opinion, you'd be hailing it as the greatest thing since sliced bread....

Illrelevent. An opinion forum exists to generate, refine, or to propagate a meme. It should use hard information sources to back up it's thesis but can not be used as a hard information source itself.

[antiklaus]

Illrelevent. An opinion forum exists to generate, refine, or to propagate a meme. It should use hard information sources to back up it's thesis but can not be used as a hard information source itself.

Back up one post. Look at my quote. That was Associated Press.

[Jimsween]

The Associated Press does editorial too, antiklaus.

Do you not understand what an editorial is?

[Camarohusky]

At 8/31/04 02:51 AM, Jimsween wrote: The Associated Press does editorial too, antiklaus.

Do you not understand what an editorial is?

Isn't it one of those stories that is all correct and tell us everything accurately and objectively?

[Jimsween]

At 8/31/04 02:56 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

Isn't it one of those stories that is all correct and tell us everything accurately and objectively?

In a perfect world... no not even then.

An editorial is meant to be baised and opinionated. However, an editorial is supposed to offer unbaised sources. A good debator will cite the sources the editorial gives rather than the editorial itself. However, I've run into thick headed people (Angry_Hate, for example) who can't seem to get this through thier head, and insist that an editorial is a perfectly fine source.

What it comes down to is, do you even have an opinion of your own, or are you just borrowing someone elses?

[antiklaus]

At 8/31/04 03:12 AM, Jimsween wrote:

At 8/31/04 02:56 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

Isn't it one of those stories that is all correct and tell us everything accurately and objectively?

DETROIT (AP) -- Democrats on Wednesday denounced a Republican lawmaker quoted in a newspaper as saying the GOP would fare poorly in this year's elections if it failed to "suppress the Detroit vote."

Not an editorial or opinion page.

He was QUOTED --- saying it in a NEWSPAPER.

try again Jimmy boy.

[XcakerX]

ahhh back on NG for a day and the propiganda machines are rolling aready.

not to be a dick but:

www.truthout.org
www.pfaw.org
www.thenation.com

I checked both their homepages, they looked to be extremely one sided, and opinion oriented. While reading opinions is entertaining, there is no way anything posted on this site can be taken as fact based on this site alone. Since you are obviously trying to post proof, I am gonna say, this obviously does not count. Listening to someone will strong political bias for acurate news in 2004 whether or not he apears to be a screaming assholes is irrellevant, EVERYONE has their agenda.

ttp://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw101420_20040721.htm
2 http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16368
3 http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/081704C.shtml

(original: http://nytimes.com/2004/08/16/opinion/16herbert.html?hp)

When something happens to a black person, the media jumps right all over as racial bias because that is what sells papers. It is possible and highly likely, but I want to see some more homework done on this please.

[antiklaus]

I checked both their homepages, they looked to be extremely one sided, and opinion oriented.

All news sources are opinionated.

there is no way anything posted on this site can be taken as fact based on this site alone.

Why? they cite things that are evident in the record...
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1999/November/518cr.htm

It's prety clear that Federal Agents were at the Black polls predominantly - and while the stated objective might be "ensuring that the rights of minority voters are respected" -

Tell me this then, why of these people, sent to 'protect' the rights of the black voters, spent a majority of their time checking black ID?

When something happens to a black person, the media jumps right all over as racial bias because that is what sells papers.

really? then why did the papers all but ignore the fact that not a single senator would approve the call by the Black representatives for inquiry into misrepresentations of their votes in the 2000 election?

and why no major newspaper coverage of this one:
http://www.newpittsburghcourier.com/index.php?article=6086

The Republicans assembled a fleet of 300 cars driven by men with clipboards bearing insignias or decals resembling those of such federal agencies as Drug Enforcement Agency and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Thus arrayed, these pseudo-cops spent election day cruising Philadelphia's African American neighborhoods and asking prospective voters to show them some identification -- an age-old method of voter intimidation.

It is possible and highly likely, but I want to see some more homework done on this please.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper....p;screen=news&news_id=2689
Black voters were told to get behind the white voters.
Black voters were intimidated by police standing around polling places

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50154-2004Jul14.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-08-09-election.htm
Black voters complain of being harassed in the Florida election.
The civil rights commission's June report said that more than half of the rejected ballots were cast by black voters, even though they made up only one in 10 voters. The commission also found that disabled voters and those with language barriers had trouble voting. It suggested widespread violations of the Voting Rights Act.

Homework? Is that a good start for ya?

[Jimsween]

At 8/31/04 07:12 AM, antiklaus wrote: DETROIT (AP) -- Democrats on Wednesday denounced a Republican lawmaker quoted in a newspaper as saying the GOP would fare poorly in this year's elections if it failed to "suppress the Detroit vote."

Not an editorial or opinion page.

He was QUOTED --- saying it in a NEWSPAPER.

try again Jimmy boy.

Why are you talking to me? I never claimed it was an editorial, all I said is that even an editorial from the Associated Press is biased. My debate with you has still yet to be answered, it's the one back a few posts, with all the sources, that you have yet to mention.

[antiklaus]

Why are you talking to me? I never claimed it was an editorial,

You said: The Associated Press does editorial too, antiklaus.

Do you not understand what an editorial is?

If that's not making the claim that it was an editorial, it was a good attempt at inferring it.

all I said is that even an editorial from the Associated Press is biased.

no you asked me if I knew what an editoria was. Which I do. I found several sources to back up the other sources I initially posted. All of them from mainstream sources. Not a single editorial in the lot of them.

[jimmy345963]

they said that because blacks vote democratic usually, and we don't want some dumb democrat president in the white house. No, we encourage black votewe just don't want democrat votes.

[Jimsween]

At 8/31/04 04:31 PM, antiklaus wrote:

Why are you talking to me? I never claimed it was an editorial,

You said: The Associated Press does editorial too, antiklaus.

Do you not understand what an editorial is?

If that's not making the claim that it was an editorial, it was a good attempt at inferring it.

Not at all, your claim in that post was not that this article was not and editorial, it was that the Associated Press was unbiased. My response to your post was completely in order, being that everyone else was talking about editorials, and you were just talking about being able to trust news sources.

all I said is that even an editorial from the Associated Press is biased.

no you asked me if I knew what an editoria was. Which I do. I found several sources to back up the other sources I initially posted. All of them from mainstream sources. Not a single editorial in the lot of them.

So now, after the fact, you went and found sources to back up the editorials to shamelessly copy/pasted and used as your topic post. Don't just post someone elses opinion, make your own.

[antiklaus]

So now, after the fact, you went and found sources to back up the editorials to shamelessly copy/pasted and used as your topic post. Don't just post someone elses opinion, make your own.

There was one editorial - ONE - cited in the topic post. And I found a non-editorial citation to the reference that was made in the fist place.

Many people questioned the validity of my other sources because they found them 'too biased' as if a progressive publication instantly invalidates a claim... so I found mainstream media links to back them up.

And this post is MY opinion. I think Black voters do get intimidated... systematically. They certainly did in the small community of Bacliff where I lived... to the point where when it looked like a racist constable would lose his re-election, he disappeared with the ballot boxes and returned them only hours later, clearly tampered with.

FYI, he was reelected.

[Jimsween]

At 8/31/04 11:57 PM, antiklaus wrote:

So now, after the fact, you went and found sources to back up the editorials to shamelessly copy/pasted and used as your topic post. Don't just post someone elses opinion, make your own.

There was one editorial - ONE - cited in the topic post. And I found a non-editorial citation to the reference that was made in the fist place.

What? No there were many, you are completely wrong on that assumption. But what I was talking about was the fact that your topic post material (the words) were all taken off of another persons editorial.

Many people questioned the validity of my other sources because they found them 'too biased' as if a progressive publication instantly invalidates a claim... so I found mainstream media links to back them up.

Befell was probably questioning them more because of the fact that they were in fact editorials which are inherantly biased but are in most mainstream newspapers true. Editorials from progressive sites though, can often blow things out of proportion, and cite examples that are misleading. I have explained why these editorials do such already in a previous post which you have yet to response to.

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16399
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16368
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16362
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040517&s=palast
All of those are definitely editorials.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/081704C.shtml - This one is questionable, it lacks the substance of a stated opinion or an accusation of motivation, but the writer certainly expresses his opinion. So it's either bad writing, incredibly biased journalism, or some new editorial/article thing.

Apperantly you indeed do not understand what an editorial is.

And this post is MY opinion. I think Black voters do get intimidated... systematically. They certainly did in the small community of Bacliff where I lived... to the point where when it looked like a racist constable would lose his re-election, he disappeared with the ballot boxes and returned them only hours later, clearly tampered with.

If it's your opinion, than you should ahve no problem writing your opinion down and backing it up with sources instead of taking someone elses opinion who agrees with you and pasting it. When you take someone elses opinion and use it as your own, your no more useless than the sources you post. In fact, if all you were planning on doing is using someone elses opinion, then you might as well have just posted the links.

FYI, he was reelected.

I'm not saying that Blacks are not intimidated or left out, I don't think anyone can know that for sure. But what I have said, is that much of the information used by these editorials to back up the claim that black votes are suppressed is taken out of context or just plain false.