I pledge allegiance to the flag...

[IllustriousPotentate]

...of Mexico?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129537,00.html

A high school in Colorado is being lambasted by people for hanging Mexican flags at the same level as US flags, or side by side. The school was pressured to remove them.

What do you think?

Is this just blind patriotism and nationalism run rampant? Or do the critics have legitimate reasons behind this?

Was it appropriate for the school to have done this?

Is the idea of multiculturalism a good idea? Or are we all just Americans with no hyphens?

[mrpopenfresh]

What the hell does it change? A flag put beside another one, what the fuck does it matter? I really don't see why someone would bother to give a fuck about such an asinine detail.

[fli]

At 8/20/04 12:24 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: ...of Mexico?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129537,00.html

A high school in Colorado is being lambasted by people for hanging Mexican flags at the same level as US flags, or side by side. The school was pressured to remove them.

What do you think?

Is this just blind patriotism and nationalism run rampant? Or do the critics have legitimate reasons behind this?

Was it appropriate for the school to have done this?

Is the idea of multiculturalism a good idea? Or are we all just Americans with no hyphens?

I didn't know the flag could be hung improperly, however, not many people have that type of knowlege...

I am really shocked that this is coming from Colorado. Shit, my high school, during Cinco de Mayo, and September 16, the Mexican flag turned up everywhere-- equally on the side with the American flag...

If I were they, and with that many Latino students, and knowing how Latinos can be passionate at times, I would seriously reconsider not removing that flag. After all, it is for the students who are mostly Mexican in heritage and feel proud to be engaging the cultures of two nations.

[bumcheekcity]

Nuts. Just nuts. Unless they think that America is more amazing than everybody else, and deserves a higher flag. Of course, that woulnd't be the case, would it?

[HDG]

i dont' care what it is..... all it is just bullshit. they can't just take downt the mexican flag. either have both, or none, cause if you favor one, that's discrimination....

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 8/20/04 12:33 PM, masterpopenfresh wrote: What the hell does it change? A flag put beside another one, what the fuck does it matter? I really don't see why someone would bother to give a fuck about such an asinine detail.

The reason why it does matter may just be symbolic, but I do find it disrespectful for the flag of a foreign nation to be held at par with the American flag in an American school full of American citizens, regardless of those citizens heritage.

At 8/20/04 12:58 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: Nuts. Just nuts. Unless they think that America is more amazing than everybody else, and deserves a higher flag. Of course, that woulnd't be the case, would it?

It does deserve a higher flag in America. If you want to honor all of the nations equally, do so for an international body like the UN, for example. But the flag of any nation should be held above that of others in that nation.

At 8/20/04 01:11 PM, MoreHumanThanHuman wrote: i dont' care what it is..... all it is just bullshit. they can't just take downt the mexican flag. either have both, or none, cause if you favor one, that's discrimination....

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that citizens of Mexico were attending this school, nor did I realize that the government of Mexico funded the school.

[IceWraith15]

THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THIS IS NOT A 2nd MEXICO, it is important for Mexican-Americans to acknowledge their heritage, but they cannot come in here and act like they are taking over the country. I find it innappropriate waving Mexican flags over U.S soil like that, if it were an international building or a embassy of some kind, then it would be perfectly acceptable. But they are saying that 'we are Mexicans, not Americans' and if they are going to act like that, they should stay in Mexico and not come up to the United States.

[theburningliberal]

So... you are saying Mexico only deserves to have their flag flown at the same height as ours at the UN?

America, after september 11th, came together like never before. Before, we classified ourselves as Muslim-American, African-American, Japanese-American, w/e. Afterwards, we were all Americans, and we had all been wounded by the tragedies that struck New York and N. Virginia and Pennsylvania.

You would think that we would have drawn closer together with our allies to prevent such a thing from happening again. You would think we would have brought the full weight of US Patriotism to bear against these terrorists. You would think that Bush would've been able to keep America united like it hadn't been since the Revolutionary War.

But no. Bush has increased political polarization, and has brought party lines into even sharper focus then they have ever been. Hate crimes are rising. America is a nation more closely divided then ever before -- just 3 short years after a tragedy that brought the KKK and African-Americans together. Just 3 short years after a tragedy that brought Anti-Semetics and Jews together. Just 3 short years after a tragedy that brought groups usually at odds with one another onto the same side against the group that perpetrated these attacks.

When Bush took office, he promised to be a "uniter, not a divider." Failing on that promise, he has even gone further to drive Americans apart -- I can cite examples all day long, but I think only a few need to be mentioned: His refusal to meet with NAACP leaders, although they repeatedly asked to meet with him, and his push for a discriminatory same-sex marriage ban that is nothing less than divisive and distinctly un-American.

It is time to do whatever can be done to un-do the damage Bush has done to the cohesiveness of American citizens. Bush cannot do that, for he will only continue to divide the American electorate like no other man has ever been able to do. It is time to bring America together against these Muslim extremists, and become a nation of cohesion and unity, not a nation of divisiveness and hatred.

[XcakerX]

At 8/20/04 12:24 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: ...of Mexico?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129537,00.html

A high school in Colorado

ever notice how 6 times out of 10, when something fucked up happens, its in Colorado. I long came to the conclusion that colorado is a really fucked up state, and we need to stop associating Colorado's social problems with the rest of the country.

Is the idea of multiculturalism a good idea? Or are we all just Americans with no hyphens?

We should all be just Americans. To quote MDC, "we are all shades of brown" People are people, if you were born in America, you are just as American as the next guy over. If you come to America to stay for good, you strive to be American, and your children will be American as the next guy over who has been here since day 1. Thats being part of a nation of immigrants is all about. Americans fly the American flag over any other, regardless of where they originated. Flying another flag higher, or at level is disrespectfull.

I think its funny the same people who are against English as the official language, are the same people making fun of Mr. President for not being able to speak it.

[cylon]

Here's a bit of the Flag Code -- not a law if I remember right, but a guideline on the display of American flags:

(g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.
link

I saw the picture on that site and don't think there was any problem with how they were displayed -- side by side on a wall. The US and Mexico are allies and most of the people in that school have a heritage from Mexico - what's wrong with that?

The US flag is not weak, and people shouldn't think it's threatened by the existance of another flag side by side with it.

[Camarohusky]

At 8/20/04 03:44 PM, XcakerX wrote: ever notice how 6 times out of 10, when something fucked up happens, its in Colorado. I long came to the conclusion that colorado is a really fucked up state, and we need to stop associating Colorado's social problems with the rest of the country.

Ok, I say we lose colorado, Florida and Texas, and then take canada (split into two) and puerto rico. SO we could keep the 50 states and rid ourselves of the delinquents.

I think its funny the same people who are against English as the official language, are the same people making fun of Mr. President for not being able to speak it.

Apples and oranges are not the same. Bush's speak is criticized because it is simpleton language. He is supposed to be a leader and an example, but when he speaks like a 6 year old he sets a horrible example and a very poor lead. Whereas people want the immigrants to speak english because the public itself is stupid lazy and arrogant, believing that because America is the pinnacle of the world, that they do not have to learn the languages of the rest of the world.

[bumcheekcity]

At 8/20/04 01:33 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: It does deserve a higher flag in America. If you want to honor all of the nations equally, do so for an international body like the UN, for example. But the flag of any nation should be held above that of others in that nation.

And here was me thinking I was being sarcastic...

[secondmessiah]

There are laws regarding our flag, I don't know the text but I am pretty sure that the US flag must be kept higher than other flags, or at the center (horizontally) or to one side (I can't remember which) if there is only one other flag. They have a right to do this. We live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and we treat our flags with the upmost respect.

[secondmessiah]

At 8/20/04 01:11 PM, MoreHumanThanHuman wrote: i dont' care what it is..... all it is just bullshit. they can't just take downt the mexican flag. either have both, or none, cause if you favor one, that's discrimination....

Dear moron: its not discrimination! It would be discrimination if they banned Mexicans from the school- but they can ban symbols of the Mexican government. Would you have the problem if someone was displaying a confederate flag alongside ours, or a Cuban flag, or how about a swastika? Yea, you would, thats because they are not symbols of our nation, or the state you are in, they are symbols of seperate governments.

I have no problem with Mexico and certainly no problem with Mexians, but if you are going to be a US citizen, you must respect our flag.

[Camarohusky]

At 8/20/04 04:43 PM, secondmessiah wrote: There are laws regarding our flag, I don't know the text but I am pretty sure that the US flag must be kept higher than other flags, or at the center (horizontally) or to one side (I can't remember which) if there is only one other flag. They have a right to do this. We live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and we treat our flags with the upmost respect.

Where are these laws? I have never heard of them. Please provide a source. And anywyas, putting another flag just as high as the US flag doesn't deny that this is the US, it just acknowledges that the US was built off of other nations. Why not accept our heritages instead of trying so hard to reject it in the name of blind fanatical nationalism?

[XcakerX]

At 8/20/04 04:10 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
Apples and oranges are not the same.

People critize bush for his lack of langauge because they are too dense to talk real politics.

If all you can find wrong with bush is the way he speaks, your fucking dense, and certianly should not even try to argue politics.

personal attacks and rauble rousing accomplish nothing, but sharpening the party lines.

as for the polerization we see now, Thank you michael moore, ANSWER and far left extremists. All Bush ever did was alienate moderate conservates.

Moore even said, either you agree with him, or your a liar, probably working for Bush.

If thats not dirrect polarization, I don't know what is.

I value my right to bear arms highly because one of you nut jobs is going to break into my house to harrass me one of theese days because I don't believe partisan propigana by anyone.

[Camarohusky]

Hmm, strange, as you try to sya that you think that people who villify to opposing side are ruining this country yet you spend your entire post villifying the left...

And people who criticize Bush for his poor speaking do so not because they don't know any of his policies, they do it because they expect a good quality worhty American to take the lead of this country and one who can't speak his native language worth shit is a bad example. If you want me to go aftre his politics and policy, I will, but that's for another post.

[MoralLibertarian]

Multiculturalism is a silly idea. There is a difference in realizing and celebrating our cultural backgrounds and the things that make us different, and living your life completely in that manner, regardless of social mores. To be truly sucessful in the country you are staying, you MUST learn the cultural mores of that society, and you must assimilate. You can do that, while celebrating your own cultural background.

This isn't the United States of America, and Mexico. We are in United States of America, and so that flag should be by itself, hanging alone. The Mexican flag could be in the room or hanging somewhere else, but "side by side" would send a message that it's not important to celebrate your citizenship of the US.

I probably wouldn't sue, but I would be offended.

[theburningliberal]

At 8/20/04 05:08 PM, XcakerX wrote:

At 8/20/04 04:10 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
Apples and oranges are not the same.

People critize bush for his lack of langauge because they are too dense to talk real politics.

When we get tired of criticizing him for everything else.

If all you can find wrong with bush is the way he speaks, your fucking dense, and certianly should not even try to argue politics.

Again, we can find more wrong with Bush than just his simpleton language.

personal attacks and rauble rousing accomplish nothing, but sharpening the party lines.

And creating political divisiveness among the electorate.

as for the polerization we see now, Thank you michael moore, ANSWER and far left extremists.

And Rush Limbaugh. And Sean Hannity. And Alan Colmes. And FOX News.

All Bush ever did was alienate moderate conservates.

And mainstream America. And independent votes. And moderate Republicans.

Moore even said, either you agree with him, or your a liar, probably working for Bush.

^_^. Link please.

If thats not dirrect polarization, I don't know what is.

And Bill O'Reilly saying ' ' isn't?

I value my right to bear arms highly because one of you nut jobs is going to break into my house to harrass me one of theese days because I don't believe partisan propigana by anyone.

Strange. For you see, it is the Republican Party that is stripping you of your constitutional right to privacy. And choice. And due process. And ennumerated rights. And equal protection. And on and on and on.

[little-bald-kid]

"School superintendent Jerry Wartgow said some people complained there should never be any non-U.S. flags displayed in the schools"

What a wonderful piece of nationalist bullshit.

I'm from England, and when I was in high school, I remember seeing the flags of France, Spain, Japan, Germany, Europe, the former soviet union, Turkey, Israel, America, Poland, Switzerland.... and many more.

Am I a terrorist? No!

Why are you so bothered about a fucking flag?
Are you scared that a Mexican flag will turn your precious American children into Mexican loving "Damn liberals"?

It's a fucking flag on a wall in a classroom. It's not even on a pole outside the school!
Christ, I could understand if the flag was 10 feet across on a 50 foot pole, next to a 3 feet wide American flag on a 12 foot pole, but it isnt! It's a flag on a wall in a classroom! ONE classroom!

Pull your heads out of your arses and realise that their are other cultures in the world apart from your own, and those you choose to wage war on.

[theburningliberal]

And Bill O'Reilly saying ' ' isn't?

Posted before I was ready.

And Bill O'Reilly saying 'Once the war begins we expect every American to support our cause and if they can't do that they can just shut up' isn't polarizing?

[theburningliberal]

At 8/20/04 05:28 PM, Rooster349 wrote: Multiculturalism is a silly idea.

So people who celebrate their heritage are inherently stupid?

There is a difference in realizing and celebrating our cultural backgrounds and the things that make us different, and living your life completely in that manner, regardless of social mores. To be truly sucessful in the country you are staying, you MUST learn the cultural mores of that society, and you must assimilate. You can do that, while celebrating your own cultural background.

So people can't celebrate being of a certain ethnicity, but being an American as well?

This isn't the United States of America, and Mexico. We are in United States of America, and so that flag should be by itself, hanging alone.

So the way the UN displays the flags of member nations is disrespectful to the US Flag?

The Mexican flag could be in the room or hanging somewhere else, but "side by side" would send a message that it's not important to celebrate your citizenship of the US.

So... you are saying that ought not to be celebrating both their ethnic heritage and your American citizenship, and that they are American, and ethnic histories don't apply?

I probably wouldn't sue, but I would be offended.

I'm offended at your intolerant viewpoints, and I am considering suing.

Or getting some pizza. I'm a little hungry.

[Raptorman]

There is a time for clarity and a time for nuance. Let's go for clarity.

You came to my country. I hope you feel welcome but don't expect me to go out of my way to make you feel so. In my schools, in my country we fly my fucking flag. If you need to see your flag to feel comfortable put one at your house or stay in your country. I'm not putting one in my damn school.

[theburningliberal]

Everywhere I look: intolerance.

Look, when ethnic minorities represent as a large a voting bloc as they do, you have got to give a little to get anything in return. The values of America have come to encompass a lot of tolerance, and viewpoints such as yours are only taking away from the values America has come to cherish.

[MoralLibertarian]

At 8/20/04 07:34 PM, theburningliberal wrote:
So people who celebrate their heritage are inherently stupid?

No, I just spent a paragraph saying that it's important to celebrate heritage, dude.

So people can't celebrate being of a certain ethnicity, but being an American as well?

You can.

So the way the UN displays the flags of member nations is disrespectful to the US Flag?

No, but that's the UN. This is the US. US first here.

So... you are saying that ought not to be celebrating both their ethnic heritage and your American citizenship, and that they are American, and ethnic histories don't apply?

What??

I'm offended at your intolerant viewpoints, and I am considering suing.

Hardly intolerant at all, really. Why shouldn't society assimilate to our the US's cultures and values? I'm not saying we shouldn't take steps to understand other cultures either, you're kind of putting words in my mouth, buddy.

In a business and day to day situations, knowing our culture and language is very important. That's all I'm saying. You can still celebrate your own culture and live by ours. You can have the best of both worlds.

[Redwrath]

I will quote the rules of flag display.

"When flags are displayed at different heights, the United States flag flies higher than all the others. It is hoisted first and lowered last."

"When flags are displayed at equal heights, the United States flag is either in front of or farthest to the right of the other flags."

"International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace. Flags of other nations must be flown from seperate flagpoles or equal height, and all flags should be approximately equal in size with the United States flag."

Any questions?

[TheWakingDeath]

Let's get all these idiots to take down the confederate flag in this case.

And what if it had been an Irish flag? I can't conceive of too many people being opposed to an Irish flag flying beside an American one, considering how many Irish people there are in this country. With their bumper stickers. And ugly Irish flag tattoos. Y'know, just because the design is simple doesn't mean it has to look like a faded piece of shit.

And before any of you assholes say anything I AM Irish American.
Multiculturalism is not a silly idea.

[Redwrath]

At 8/20/04 09:02 PM, Izuamoto wrote: And before any of you assholes say anything I AM Irish American.
Multiculturalism is not a silly idea.

We are one of the few nations that has to have multiculturalism because we have so many different cultures. The only problem I have seen is how we try to counterbalance cultural ignorance by making holidays and "months" which lose their impact. We are all human, and we need to understand that by respecting all cultures equally.

[Phineus]

The flag, like any other symbol, has different meanimgs to different people. To some, rasing the Mexican flag to the same level as the American flag, has the same meaing as if one were to REPLACE the American flag with the Mexican flag. To others (and most likely the people who raised this flag, and issue), it is just a harmless act; a celebration of their herritage, and that they can bring that herritage to the USA to share with all. This is just a misunderstanding that can be fixed if the two sides simply take into account the other.

[BAWLS]

That's the dumbist fucking thing I've ever heard. Hell, at my school the U.S. flag is hung next to over 50 other flags. And that hallway's the only place where you would actually get to see the U.S. flag in the first place.

This type of thing goes in the same category of freedom fries and W Ketchup. The republicans are probably behind this one too...

Damn rednecks