Cloning

[System-1]

What are your opinions on Cloning? this doesnt refer simply to human cloning, but animal cloning aswell. is it wrong? is it right?

[RedSkunk]

It's ridiciously expensive.

[Neverness]

Quite simply, I have no problem with cloning as long as it is used to expand our knowledge of science. The technology is still in its early stages, so it is interesting to read about the research being conducted.

[Wraith]

At 8/14/04 10:42 PM, Skvnk wrote: It's ridiciously expensive.

We can fix that.

Stem-cells and such, I have no problem with. The biggie is, what are the possible social stigmas that a clone of someone might have? Are we going to say they're simply second-class citizens? What about the trauma of knowing that the only reason you exist is because you were created to be like someone else?

[System-1]

At 8/14/04 10:57 PM, -Wraith- wrote:

Stem-cells and such, I have no problem with. The biggie is, what are the possible social stigmas that a clone of someone might have? Are we going to say they're simply second-class citizens? What about the trauma of knowing that the only reason you exist is because you were created to be like someone else?

yeah cloning can lead to the formation of a caste system of people and their clones, which is why limits will be nessesary to control how far we push our ablitity to artifically reproduce life. banning cloning will only slow man's scientific progress, but without limits, theres no telling what we might do...

[Neverness]

At 8/14/04 10:57 PM, -Wraith- wrote:

:The biggie is, what are the possible social stigmas that a clone of someone might have...

Reminds me of Asimov's Robots. Well, that and any other example of a human meeting something it doesn't understand. A clone will be condemned if he/she (not it) is revealed, but there would not be any (to my knowledge) physical or mental differences in that person.

[Spookshow]

We shouldn't screw with things we don't understand. That will be the death of us. Look at how anti-biotics have become increasingly ineffective due to people not using the right, long enough, etc. Cloning will turn out the same way.

[Neverness]

I will always hold the opinion that we must explore and study everything, nearly regardless of the social consequences (although I am positive that everyone here can give me many things that I would make an exception to my rule). Human thinking must change if we want to survive as a species, not only in science and culture, but how we treat our own people and our planet. Science can develop wonderful things for us, but it is ironic that we can't handle what we create. The change should lie not within the discovery, but how we perceive and use what we are given.

[witeshark]

At 8/14/04 11:17 PM, Spookshow wrote:

Look at how anti-biotics have become increasingly ineffective

I agree with this post; I think it's incredibly dangerous to mess with cloning

[System-1]

At 8/14/04 11:31 PM, Neverness wrote: Human thinking must change if we want to survive as a species, not only in science and culture, but how we treat our own people and our planet. Science can develop wonderful things for us, but it is ironic that we can't handle what we create. The change should lie not within the discovery, but how we perceive and use what we are given.

unfortunatly, not everyone is as open minded as you. most people are frightened and confused by things that different and new. Cloned people will get hell in society if they are found out. on top of that, clones age according to the age of the cell that was removed (or something along the lines) which means a 10 year old cell is cloned, then the cloned cells will be 10 years old also.

[IllustriousPotentate]

I think one of the myths that people have about being cloned is that you can just take a few cells, and POOF! You have an instant replica of yourself. It doesn't work that way. The cells have to form a fetus, and then mature into a baby, then a child, then to an adult. If you cloned yourself at 30, you would be 60 by the time the your clone would look similiar to the way you looked at 30, and you would be older than your clone looks like when he looked like you were when you were cloned.

Even still though, there are some kinks and social issues that would have to be solved for human cloning. But as long as they're not harmed, I don't really forsee anything wrong with cloning animals.

Just look at the clones below. Aren't they cute? Aww......

[System-1]

At 8/14/04 11:54 PM, witeshark wrote:

At 8/14/04 11:17 PM, Spookshow wrote:

Look at how anti-biotics have become increasingly ineffective

I agree with this post; I think it's incredibly dangerous to mess with cloning

to mess with HUMAN cloning, yes. but the cloning of vegetation, or animals can be one of the greatest and most rewarding occurances in science, or even in human existance. cloning CAN lead to an unlimited source of food.

[System-1]

At 8/14/04 11:58 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: I think one of the myths that people have about being cloned is that you can just take a few cells, and POOF! You have an instant replica of yourself. It doesn't work that way. The cells have to form a fetus, and then mature into a baby, then a child, then to an adult.

i was taught that cloned animals grew at a rapid rate as a reaction to the age of the original cell cloned... it wouldnt take very long for a clone to age.

[ChaosFoot]

hey, if yur willing to spend the money for it, clone anything you want, hell clone hitler for all i care, as long as i dont pay for it and he doesnt touch me, do whatever the fuck you want, also, since im givin everyone any type of freedom they want, how about everyone stays outta my shit

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 8/15/04 12:02 AM, WhoopingTerrier wrote: i was taught that cloned animals grew at a rapid rate as a reaction to the age of the original cell cloned... it wouldnt take very long for a clone to age.

Even still, there would be enough difference between the two ages to tell the difference between an individual and his clone in this case, at least until they became much older, and the ages begin to equal out. Besides, the two would have to have the same dietary habits, exercise regimen, and lifestyle habits to look exactly the same, and even then, they wouldn't think or act or have the same tastes as the other person.

You could get away with passing off a clone of yourself as your younger, then twin, brother, I think.

[RedSkunk]

? They don't grow any faster...? But the cellular structure of clones is already at the "age" of the host - because it has all the problems and mutations of the thing it was cloned from. Thus, their life spans are much lower, depending on the age of the thing it was cloned from.

Dolly the sheep's clone, for instance, is already dead.

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 8/15/04 12:15 AM, Skvnk wrote: ? They don't grow any faster...? But the cellular structure of clones is already at the "age" of the host - because it has all the problems and mutations of the thing it was cloned from. Thus, their life spans are much lower, depending on the age of the thing it was cloned from.

Right. So would a 30 year old clone look 30 years old?

[RedSkunk]

At 8/15/04 12:29 AM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: Right. So would a 30 year old clone look 30 years old?

Yes? No?

I would think so.. But it'd have higher instances of cancer...

I'll rephrase - a ten year old clone would look the same as a ten year old. To my understanding.

At 30, things might get weird 0.o

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 8/15/04 12:44 AM, Skvnk wrote:

At 8/15/04 12:29 AM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: Right. So would a 30 year old clone look 30 years old?

Yes? No?

I would think so.. But it'd have higher instances of cancer...

Therefore, I would imagine, it would make cloning for health purposes, etc., a little more difficult. If you were cloned at 30, and 20 years down the road you had some sort of genetic disease, the clone very well could be experiencing the same sort of genetic disease at or around the same time frame, even though it's age is lower.

So cloning someone who is fairly old would not be a good idea, and would result in a short lifespan for a clone.

However, I don't see where the problem would lie with cloning babies or fetuses, however, except on the grounds of social and any ethical aspects of it.

[Neverness]

At 8/15/04 12:57 AM, IllustriousPotentate wrote:

However, I don't see where the problem would lie with cloning babies or fetuses, however, except on the grounds of social and any ethical aspects of it.

Which is where embryonic stem cell research comes into play. By using material from very early on in the organism's life cycle, the best results can be obtained on a more regular basis (at least that is the theory). Of course, as you pointed out, the ethical issues arise here :)

[cam-kitsune]

what about cloning specific human body parts for surgical replacement? the medical implications are just about endless... blood of any type could be created from cloned cells, thereby reoving the need for blood drives and the blood shortage. it would also eliminate the waiting list for surgical replacements of body parts; simply clone the part and switch them out.

oh, and before anybody asks, brains probobly wouldnt work (im not EXACTLY sure of how the brain works, but i know that most knowledge is stored as electrical signals), because switching the brains (whcih would be VERY difficult in itself as the brain dies after about 6 minutes without oxygen) would not swap the MOMORIES. so youd end up with a 30 year old who has to grow and learn everything all over again.

[Neverness]

The clone age thing has to do with (don't quote me if I'm a little off) chromosome length, and that it decreases with DNA is naturally copied in the body, so the older the specimen, the shorter, and worse it is. DNA can be kept for later use, if for instance you wanted good material from someone who is aging, even for a normal person. I don't know how well or long it can be safely stored, however, but that would have to be taken into consideration as well. There is some talk about using a person's own tissue to build organs for transplant, the technology is a little far off (Popular Science Mag.), but the theory is sound if the organ can be built functional. What better way to avoid transplant rejection?

[RedSkunk]

Yeah.. The DNA mutates and breaks down as we age. It's why humans are kinda limited to about 100-120 currently. It eventually just doesn't duplicate itself - successfully - quick enough...

[Spookshow]

At 8/14/04 11:59 PM, WhoopingTerrier wrote: to mess with HUMAN cloning, yes. but the cloning of vegetation, or animals can be one of the greatest and most rewarding occurances in science, or even in human existance. cloning CAN lead to an unlimited source of food.

How do you figure? What if we messed with a plants DNA and it could'nt reproduce because of cross pollination? It could very well lead to our dimise sp*.

[System-1]

At 8/15/04 03:18 AM, Spookshow wrote:

At 8/14/04 11:59 PM, WhoopingTerrier wrote: to mess with HUMAN cloning, yes. but the cloning of vegetation, or animals can be one of the greatest and most rewarding occurances in science, or even in human existance. cloning CAN lead to an unlimited source of food.

How do you figure? What if we messed with a plants DNA and it could'nt reproduce because of cross pollination? It could very well lead to our dimise sp*.

well if scientists experimenting with cloning dont understand and use extreme measures to avoid contamination with the environment, they shouldnt have been the ones doing the experiements. a professional scientist would never let that happen. there's too much at stake.

[Spookshow]

At 8/15/04 03:30 AM, WhoopingTerrier wrote: well if scientists experimenting with cloning dont understand and use extreme measures to avoid contamination with the environment, they shouldnt have been the ones doing the experiements. a professional scientist would never let that happen. there's too much at stake.

Alot of them do understand what is at stake and that will push some people even farther. People will ALWAYS make mistakes, no matter how many precautions are taken. It is our nature.

[System-1]

At 8/15/04 03:34 AM, Spookshow wrote:

Alot of them do understand what is at stake and that will push some people even farther. People will ALWAYS make mistakes, no matter how many precautions are taken. It is our nature.

well even if a cloned strain of animal or plant WAS leaked out into nature chances are that the clone strain is not going to survive in the wild. the cloned species would die out quickly and chances are that there is going to be something wrong with its genetic makeup.

[bbbomber]

I know this is slightly off topic, but wouldnt it be cool if you could clone an elephant, but make them pet size, then people could own mini elephants as pets, saw it on a movie once, pretty cool

[Xiivi]

Cloning is plausible, but it's just pushing our limits with life. There are no actual good reasons to clone except to prove that we can clone. I mean what's the point, create a clone for no purpose. The clone would merely have a shorter lifespan, be more succeptaple to diseases and such, and (if it was a human) have to live with the fact that is was created for no reason than to live the life of someone else. Cloning sounds cool at first, but it loses it's luster when you look at it through the eyes of the clone itself. <3

[System-1]

At 8/15/04 04:23 AM, PiconjoPrincess wrote: Cloning is plausible, but it's just pushing our limits with life. There are no actual good reasons to clone except to prove that we can clone. I mean what's the point, create a clone for no purpose. The clone would merely have a shorter lifespan, be more succeptaple to diseases and such, and (if it was a human) have to live with the fact that is was created for no reason than to live the life of someone else. Cloning sounds cool at first, but it loses it's luster when you look at it through the eyes of the clone itself. <3

meat can be cloned. plants can be cloned. we would no longer be dependant on the environment, and would no longer tamper with it. wipe out world hunger, save the environment... good enough reasons?