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http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2003/31751.htm

Alright, starting a new page. I'm reposting the link becauser this is first and foremost what this thread is about. If you haven't checked it out yet, then please take the time to check it out, well worth it.

At 8/9/04 01:59 PM, The_Enforcer wrote: No one is hiding. We are searching them out and either capturing or killing them. If you don't want to stand up for yourself thats fine but don't insult others who will.

You think I'm cowering away from terrorism? I'm doing the opposite, the exact opposite. I've rejected it as any threat to me. I've come to a point where terrorism creates nof ear in my mind, no motion, no stirring, nothing. Terrorism has done nothing to me but make me ignore terrorsim. Fighting everyone we think might be a terrorist is hardly standing up for one's self. It's fighting blindly and irrationaly at anything that moves because you're scared shitless. You have to face it, the people who the terrorists all dead are the ones who have an extreme irrational fear, almost a phobia, of terrorism.

This post and it's link is a more concise then the one last night - thanks! Again it shows that overall terror shit is usually everywhere but here in the US. And it shows the spike 911 obviously caused

But on the other hand, the graph shows that the war on terrorism actually worked, with 2002 and 2003 having the lowest numbers in two decades. But the fqact that terrorism is a joke still stands. Having numbers so low also means that terrorism is as little a threat as its ever been for quite some time.

At 8/9/04 03:51 PM, The_Enforcer wrote: Do you honestly believe a night or two without electricity is as bad as rape rooms and torture?

Why are you talking about a couple of nights...so-called "liberators".

You didn't answer my question. Do you believe not having electricity for a while is as bad as rape rooms and torture?

At 8/10/04 12:16 AM, Camarohusky wrote: You think I'm cowering away from terrorism? I'm doing the opposite, the exact opposite. I've rejected it as any threat to me. I've come to a point where terrorism creates no fear in my mind, no motion, no stirring, nothing.

You are able to do that because the American military went into Afghanistan and erased a good portion of that threat. So you have only our marines to thank for that. Claiming that it was a conscious decision on your part maybe be half true but the real reason is there are a whole lot less terrorists.

At 8/10/04 11:15 AM, The_Enforcer wrote:
You didn't answer my question. Do you believe not having electricity for a while is as bad as rape rooms and torture?

By ratio, yes. Believe it or not, electricity is an integral part of our lives, just think at how miserable a day without electricity is, now multiply that by a year. But the thing is, not having electricity affects everyone, all the time. Rape and torture, although bad, dosen't happen to everyone, all day, everyday.

I'm sorry, were you around when 3,000 people were killed on the streets of New York City? I guess you "smart" people were too busy worrying about the economy.

Or maybe crime?
http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/02/murder.rate/
Or tobacco?
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/factsheets/death_causes2000.htm

If you want to play ostrich and stick your head in the sand, go ahead. The terrorists will still be there.

So will cars, criminals and all these other far bigger threats.

PS: Interesting Article http://www.guardian.co.uk/analysis/story/0,,1275467,00.html
Sadly it doesn't come with the graph that was in the paper at the time.

At 8/10/04 11:25 AM, mrpopenfresh wrote: By ratio, yes. Believe it or not, electricity is an integral part of our lives, just think at how miserable a day without electricity is, now multiply that by a year. But the thing is, not having electricity affects everyone, all the time. Rape and torture, although bad, dosen't happen to everyone, all day, everyday.

There you have it folks mrpopenfresh equates not having electricity to rape and torture.

At 8/10/04 12:10 PM, The_Enforcer wrote:
There you have it folks mrpopenfresh equates not having electricity to rape and torture.

Thats nice, now tell me how great it is to live in Iraq now that they don't fear rape and torture. Tell me how great it is when people have to spend half their day only to get water wich is probably full of diarrhea. Tell me how great it is when people who don't care about you and don't speak your language treat you as collateral damage during a gunfight. Tell me, seeing as how you look like an expert on the subject.

But on the other hand, the graph shows that the war on terrorism actually worked, with 2002 and 2003 having the lowest numbers in two decades.

Actually it doesn't show that at all - it shows the opposite (if it shows anything at all, the change in the statistics is not attributed to anything.) See the "war on terror" was mainly focused in the Middle East and the number of attacks has increased there, Asia too - a focus of the WoT - has an increased number of attacks since the beginning of the WoT.

At 8/10/04 06:40 PM, Slizor wrote:
Actually it doesn't show that at all - it shows the opposite (if it shows anything at all, the change in the statistics is not attributed to anything.) See the "war on terror" was mainly focused in the Middle East and the number of attacks has increased there, Asia too - a focus of the WoT - has an increased number of attacks since the beginning of the WoT.

Well thats one way to use all the graphs. And by the way, thanks for sharing that article with us, pure gold!

At 8/10/04 06:23 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote: Thats nice, now tell me how great it is to live in Iraq now that they don't fear rape and torture.

You can't seem to comprehend that living under Saddam Hussein was a bad thing. If you can't see this basic truth then I will be unable to convince you of anything further. I'm sure the Iraqi's are glad you aren't in charge.

At 8/11/04 02:21 PM, The_Enforcer wrote:
You can't seem to comprehend that living under Saddam Hussein was a bad thing. If you can't see this basic truth then I will be unable to convince you of anything further. I'm sure the Iraqi's are glad you aren't in charge.

And you don't seem to understand that the Iraqi people don't want the Americans in their country. Hell, would you like to get bombed? Americans are just as bad for entering in innocents peoples houses in search of freedom fighters. Innocent people, people who never wouldv'e been bothered by Saddam have been mutilated and killed as a direct consequence of the American invasion.

At 8/11/04 02:27 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote: And you don't seem to understand that the Iraqi people don't want the Americans in their country.

Oh? I assume you know a whole bunch of Iraqi's and they've told you as such? Or maybe you're making a baseless accusation. The former is more likely than the latter.

Hell, would you like to get bombed? Americans are just as bad for entering in innocents peoples houses in search of freedom fighters.

So now terrorists are freedom fighters. I was unaware.

Innocent people, people who never wouldv'e been bothered by Saddam have been mutilated and killed as a direct consequence of the American invasion.

You can't back up that statement. You have no idea who or when Saddam and his secret police would have attacked a civilian, nobody does. The people who died as a direct consequence fo the American liberation of Iraq were Saddams Al Fedayeen forces who weren't smart enough to surrender.

At 8/11/04 02:43 PM, The_Enforcer wrote:
Oh? I assume you know a whole bunch of Iraqi's and they've told you as such? Or maybe you're making a baseless accusation. The former is more likely than the latter.

Well, I know by common sense that people don't like it when a foreign superpower invades their country. Would you like it if some European country would invade the U.S because they find George W Bush a totally unfit ruler? To a certain extent, thats what you guys have done by invading Iraq.

So now terrorists are freedom fighters. I was unaware.

They are when they are fighting in their own country against invaders.

You can't back up that statement. You have no idea who or when Saddam and his secret police would have attacked a civilian, nobody does.

I knoiw that Saddam didn't bomb entire cities, cities who included a civilian population.

The people who died as a direct consequence fo the American liberation of Iraq were Saddams Al Fedayeen forces who weren't smart enough to surrender.

As one soldier put it; "When your'e in the heat of the battle, when you get all the adrenalin pumping, you don't think. You just shoot on anything that moves." Surely, innocent bystanders like to move to, don't you think? Don't you think they like to get the hell out of the crossfire?

Besides, napalm dosen't differentiate between good and bad.

omg innocent civilians, or the preffered, american term, "collateral dammage".

At 8/11/04 03:18 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote:

To a certain extent, thats what you guys have done by invading Iraq.

Nah, not really.

So now terrorists are freedom fighters. I was unaware.

They are when they are fighting in their own country against invaders.

Even when the "invaders" are giving them freedom?

If firefighters fight fire what do freedomfighters fight? Chinese riddle for you mrpop...

I knoiw that Saddam didn't bomb entire cities, cities who included a civilian population.

Oh no he would never do such a thing! Rape rooms, torture chambers, mass graves, using chemical weapons, gassing the kurds. Yeah, I guess you're right he's not so bad after all.

Surely, innocent bystanders like to move to, don't you think? Don't you think they like to get the hell out of the crossfire?

I bet they do. Another thing the soldiers have to worry about is that the enemy dresses like a civilian. So if you are in fact a civilian and you see the marines approaching don't stick around.

At 8/11/04 03:43 PM, The_Enforcer wrote:
Nah, not really.

Best. Comeback. Ever.

Even when the "invaders" are giving them freedom?

Do they know they're coming to give them "freedom" as you call it? As far as they're concerned, a bunch of english speaking devils a coming into their country with guns shooting people.

If firefighters fight fire what do freedomfighters fight? Chinese riddle for you mrpop...

OMG U R TEH FUNNY!!11!1!

Seriously, that was horrible.

Oh no he would never do such a thing! Rape rooms, torture chambers, mass graves, using chemical weapons, gassing the kurds. Yeah, I guess you're right he's not so bad after all.

You seem to suffer from "selective amnesia", something that politicians quite frequently suffer from. Refute everything dammit! If you can't, then you concede, simple as that. Didn't you say yuou were open minded? Prove it to me.

I bet they do. Another thing the soldiers have to worry about is that the enemy dresses like a civilian. So if you are in fact a civilian and you see the marines approaching don't stick around.

Well thats right wing media for you! If you had a shred of intelligence, you'd know thats just an excuse.

I suggest you go watch Farheinheit 9/11. Its isn't nearly as insult hurling as all those nasty books you read.

At 8/11/04 02:43 PM, The_Enforcer wrote:

At 8/11/04 02:27 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote: And you don't seem to understand that the Iraqi people don't want the Americans in their country.

Oh? I assume you know a whole bunch of Iraqi's and they've told you as such? Or maybe you're making a baseless accusation. The former is more likely than the latter.

Well, judging by the recent murders that have been recorded along with audio of basically "Get the f**k out of iraq" i would say yes, they have told us as much.

As to libs thumbing their asses, i'll let everyone in on a little secret. They do horrible things to people because they know it will get a reaction from us, just like a little kid doing something bad to get attention. They know we'll hit back, kill more civs, and piss off more iraqi's who will turn to their cause. What if we were to ignore them? I dont know, we havent tried yet. I hate to sound cold, but speaking purely with statistics, 3000 or however many killed is nothing compared to the hundreds of millions living in the US. I feel for the people who lost their families, but really, move on.

So now terrorists are freedom fighters. I was unaware.

Its all about perception. To them, yes they are. To you, they're terrorists. Am i to believe you because your a fellow american? You think your right in war because your afraid of being hit again. Understandable. They think they're right, because they want our soldiers the hell out of their country. Well, i think i can honestly say, if i were in 'their shoes' so to speak, i would feel the same way they do.
My position is, i didnt like the idea of the ''war'' on terrorism(bunch of skirmishes), but i feel that we've dug ourselves in too far just to pull out now.

At 8/11/04 03:53 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote: You seem to suffer from "selective amnesia", something that politicians quite frequently suffer from. Refute everything dammit! If you can't, then you concede, simple as that. Didn't you say yuou were open minded? Prove it to me.

You're acting as if everything you say is the truth and everything I say needs to be substantiated. The fact of the matter is you claim the "evil americans" are invading a country and the Iraqi's don't know why we are there. Of course they know! We are getting rid of their dictator. Please don't assume the Iraqi's are mentally handicapped.

Also thoughout this debate you have equated not having electricity as horrible as having rape rooms, secret police, and torture chambers. That speaks volumes about how you think. You're frame of mind is that anything Americans do is inherently incorrect, whether that be free 26 million people or allow a dictator to stay in charge.

If it is your opinion that whatever Americans do is wrong then you can go on thinking that, it is perfectly okay to be wrong.

At 8/12/04 02:56 PM, The_Enforcer wrote: You're acting as if everything you say is the truth and everything I say needs to be substantiated. The fact of the matter is you claim the "evil americans" are invading a country and the Iraqi's don't know why we are there. Of course they know! We are getting rid of their dictator. Please don't assume the Iraqi's are mentally handicapped.

http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/07/week_3/images/iraq_survey.html

Poll of Iraquis by Channel 4, who are Centre-Very-Slightly-Right-Ish, but a definately trustworthy newssource.

I wish to draw your attention to the fact that less than 25% of Iraquis think the Americans went in to free them from Saddam, and only 6% thought it was to do with finding WMD. Almost 18% feel Hostile in some way, shape or form, to the Americans, compared to 26% who felt 'friendly' in any form, to them.

Interestingly, about 10% said they preferred it under Saddam, and almost 50% had no preference as to Saddam or the Americans. However, 29% preferred the Americans.

47% said their life was Worse with their life a year ago, and only 32% thought it was better. However, 43% do think it will BE better, in the future.

Interestingly, 5% would like Saddam BACK in power, and only 36% would like a Western Democracy. And 13% think the Americans should leave Iraq IMMEDIATELY. Whereas 45% think they shuold stay for 'about a year' or less.

80% have electricity cuts, 67% have been in danger of attack on the streets, almost 50% have been without clean drinking water, one-third have been without medi al facilities, and a quarter have had a shortage of food.

75% of Iraquis Questioned think that Iraq is MORE DANGEROUS now than under Saddam.

At 8/12/04 03:34 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/07/week_3/images/iraq_survey.html

Thats an excellent survey. Everyone should take a look at it.

Those percentages are probably the most accurate and about what I would assume for a country in turmoil. Good source.

At 8/12/04 02:56 PM, The_Enforcer wrote:
You're acting as if everything you say is the truth and everything I say needs to be substantiated.

Please, stop putting words in my mouth. And how am I acting as everything I say is the truth? Everything I say is obviously my opinion, so I act as if it were my opinion.

The fact of the matter is you claim the "evil americans" are invading a country and the Iraqi's don't know why we are there. Of course they know! We are getting rid of their dictator. Please don't assume the Iraqi's are mentally handicapped.

Never have I called the americans evil. And why are you talking about me assuming that Iraqis are retarded? Honestly, you make no sense.

Also thoughout this debate you have equated not having electricity as horrible as having rape rooms, secret police, and torture chambers.

Nope. Throughout this debate, you haven't stopped talking about rape and torture for a minute and constantly pressing the issue on me. Please don't bend the facts in your favor.

You're frame of mind is that anything Americans do is inherently incorrect, whether that be free 26 million people or allow a dictator to stay in charge.

Thats a great, yet wrong asumption there, fatso. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

If it is your opinion that whatever Americans do is wrong then you can go on thinking that, it is perfectly okay to be wrong.

?

Man, this is going downhill.

At 8/12/04 04:02 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote: Man, this is going downhill.

With debaters like yourself it can be guaranteed.

Again calling someone "fatso" doesn't imporve your arguments it only degrades them. They teach that in any 100 level philosophy class.

At 8/12/04 04:05 PM, The_Enforcer wrote:
Again calling someone "fatso" doesn't imporve your arguments it only degrades them. They teach that in any 100 level philosophy class.

Do I care? I'm calling you fatso because you could use a diet, not to add weight to my rebuttal.

At 8/12/04 04:07 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote: Do I care? I'm calling you fatso because you could use a diet, not to add weight to my rebuttal.

If you believe it is appropriate to use ad hominem attacks then your previous post would make sense.

I hope you feel good pointing out the shortcomings of others.

At 8/12/04 04:05 PM, The_Enforcer wrote: Again calling someone "fatso" doesn't imporve your arguments it only degrades them.

What about attacking someone's school? Does that improve an arguement? Hmm, I guess not. Oh well. Cheers!

At 8/12/04 04:14 PM, Skvnk wrote:

At 8/12/04 04:05 PM, The_Enforcer wrote: Again calling someone "fatso" doesn't imporve your arguments it only degrades them.

What about attacking someone's school? Does that improve an arguement? Hmm, I guess not. Oh well. Cheers!

Yeah, Enforcer, you're going to have to wait for a while before your reputation as a dirty fighter starts to fade away. I do have to compliment you on your fairly clean and non-inflamatory arguing in the past week. Though it does kinda that some of the fun out arguing with you...

Enforcer, your'e a hypocrite if I ever saw one. Honestly, keep your facts straight shit for brains.

At 8/8/04 11:48 PM, mrpopenfresh wrote:

At 8/8/04 11:45 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote:
Seriously, though, good research. Just don't point it out to the Bush administration.

No intention to do so. All I want to get through you people is that terrorism is not an urgent matter. Especially with dumb things like elevating the terrorist meter or whatever they call it to elevated based on a year old memo they just found out.

The world trade Centers destructions wasn't shit to you? over 3,000 innocent people killed, and for what, a smile on some dune coons faces? Bull shit. I'll pack some heat, and kick any ass i see as suspicious. The bombing of the Marine Barracks. The bombing of the ship we had over there. The hit on the pentagon. The office building in Oklahoma City? None means shit to you. Well thats fine and all, but dont damn me when your ass is grass mowed by some terrorists. Look at all of the bombings in the '50s in French Occupied Algeria. Yes, these are scattered events but, better safe than sorry and wishing your ass wasnt blown in half, as the old saying goes.

At 8/11/04 05:10 PM, Raistlin230 wrote: Its all about perception. To them, yes they are. To you, they're terrorists. Am i to believe you because your a fellow american? You think your right in war because your afraid of being hit again. Understandable. They think they're right, because they want our soldiers the hell out of their country. Well, i think i can honestly say, if i were in 'their shoes' so to speak, i would feel the same way they do.
My position is, i didnt like the idea of the ''war'' on terrorism(bunch of skirmishes), but i feel that we've dug ourselves in too far just to pull out now.

You know what. Dont even say anything for these people. They dont know what the fuck they are doing what so ever. They are blinded by their religion, saying do anything for god, for muhammed, for the Kuran. They believe in basically, religion over state. Those types of governments have been proven time and time to be unstable. Hell, if we wanted to, we could've dropped a nuke on em. The old American way. Punch us, and we punch 100,000 times as hard. But those hippies in the senate and shit are all like ' no no nukes no bombs no guns just a bunch of hallucinagenics and weed and tie dye shit will get us going. I say to that, no. In the world today, there is only power over fear. We demonstrate, we can take out two countries, and a thousand more, the world is scared shitless. What will they do knowing the almighty hand of god shall smite them in one blow? We have a military and a nuclear cache larger and more powerful than any nation in the world.