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What makes me think that he wanted help and not to kill these people is that he sent the pictures in. I was thinking that he did this just to reach out, for the same reason thousands upon thousands of other people his age attempt suicide. The only other reason he woulda done the omb threat is if he wanted people to fear him... Seems a bit weak.

But Let's just say I agree wioth you, and think that he did want to acctually blow it up. Does 80 years fit the crime? Possibly, but it is a bit long, especially for someone so young. 15 years would have been better. 15 years in prison that's almost half of his life, I'm sure 15 years in prison would have been a long of time for him to become a mature adult and hopefully have a different look on life. But that's a topic for a different thread.

At 8/7/04 04:55 PM, spanishfli wrote:

RIP Al.

Thats a very sad story. Maybe if he wasn't such an idiot and sent pictures of the BOMBS he was making to a photocenter he would've never been arrested.

Perhaps, instead we would be reading of an explosion that killed innocent civilians instead of his obituary. I'm glad they caught him before he had the chance to harm others.

He wanted help? Please. If he wanted help he wouldnt reach out by showing pics of his bomb. He would of told people. Next 80 years is harsh. I agree man. But it does fit. Conspiracy to commit mass murder. What woul you do if u had been in that school? Oh slap his wrist and say go to a shrink and come out in a year? Then bam. He does it again. I think its said he killed himself, i really do. I didnt want him to kill himself, but stay in prison! I think death woulda ben better.. I cant believe you want to defend the guy!

At 8/9/04 03:17 PM, Celly07 wrote: He wanted help? Please. If he wanted help he wouldnt reach out by showing pics of his bomb. He would of told people. Next 80 years is harsh. I agree man. But it does fit. Conspiracy to commit mass murder. What woul you do if u had been in that school? Oh slap his wrist and say go to a shrink and come out in a year? Then bam. He does it again. I think its said he killed himself, i really do. I didnt want him to kill himself, but stay in prison! I think death woulda ben better.. I cant believe you want to defend the guy!

I'm defending him because I've been to that place where all you want to do is get help. All you want is someone to come up to you and do their damnedest to sicerely help you. Though I had some few personal motivations and lights at the end of my tunnel to get me through and keep me from doing anything drastic like killnig someone, blowing something up or hurting myself. I don't expect everyone to understand, because most people never go through a phase like that. But when you need help and love so badly, you'll do anything to get it, and when your that starved for positive attention, your judgment begins to wane. If I went to that school I wouldn't have cared, becaused I still wouldn't believe that he would have done it.

Was he a psycho who wanted to blow shit up? That's very possible. But i still think he was just a lost person in dire need of help.

Sad story...kinda. He did have intentions of hurting people. But 80 years is a bit harsh for a plan to do something and not even following through. I think that race wasn't too big of an issue, just an overreaction to the hysteria caused by 9/11.

At 8/9/04 07:00 AM, spanishfli wrote:

At 8/9/04 01:25 AM, Damien3003 wrote: That did not answer my question, so ill ask it again.

It was said that he wanted to put a pipe bomb at his college.

Sounds like people may have been hurt. Maybe even died.

It doesn't matter what people 'used to be'. I still cannot really say one way or the other until i am told what his plans were. All i know now is he had bombs and guns, and had some kind of 'plot'.

True, however, a person's background does help out. Had he done serious crime out of the past...

You're asking for a slap on the wrist for his plan to hurt, maim, or kill people.

People knew bundy for years, and no one suspected anything at all. You have a flawed line of rationality.

The fact that we were probably playing soccor ball during freshmen PE does make my feeling different then probably your feelings. The fact that I helped him paint posters during spirite week makes things different.

Yes, and that makes your opinon 'subjective'.

'I don't like it'? Is that all the condemning he gets?
Was he planning to kill people, buddy? You haven't alluded one way or the other....but if people were going to die...maybe he deserves alot more than 'i don't like it'.

What else could I say? I don't accept it. Why should I feel any stronger? He didn't kill anybody.

Yet he may have been planning to. Yes, you should feel stronger.

Should I give him more scorn then what he truly deserves?

He deserves a lot more scorn then you're giving him, that's for damn sure.

The man didn't cary out the plot, he purposely sent pictures.

That's speculation. Unless you spoke with him prior to the fact, you have no idea what his intentions were.

Isn't there any possibility that he was, in fact, crying out for help and needed the attention?

Sure, there is the possibility. There is also the possibility that he was a man who went off the deep end, and planned to kill people.

I would hope, had harris and klebold's plot been discovered and them caught, that they would get and exact sentance to your good buddy deguzman. It's taking lives, brother. That's not jaywalking. That's not's carjacking. That's killing people.

No, had Harris and Klebold been caught early, they've would had been gone to another school, put on heavy meds, gotten psychological help, etc.

Speculation. It never came to trail, so you have no idea.

Look at Martha Stewart-- little slap of the hand.

Her crime was not that bad. Not as bad as, say, planting a pipe bomb at your college.
She was caught on a minor charge or insider trading. Her punishment is fitting.

Maybe he felt guilty about the aforementioned 'bomb plot' he almost carried out?
just a thought.

Yes, probably so. However, maybe..

Yea. It's really hard to say. Seeing as how neither of us spoke to him in prison, it's almost irrelevent that he killed himself. It could have been simple as him being heavily harrassed by fellow prisoners. Once again, it really is hard to say.

At 8/9/04 01:20 PM, Camarohusky wrote: What makes me think that he wanted help and not to kill these people...

Yuppers. Planting pipe bombs in colleges usually helps the college students out a whole lot.

I was thinking that he did this just to reach out, for the same reason thousands upon thousands of other people his age attempt suicide.

He wasn't planning suicide, he was planning murder.

The only other reason he woulda done the omb threat is if he wanted people to fear him... Seems a bit weak.

Or maybe he was just honestly crazy? Niether of us really has any idea one way or the other.

But Let's just say I agree wioth you, and think that he did want to acctually blow it up. Does 80 years fit the crime?

Hard to say. I'd have to know the detailed plan. Was he putting it in a dorm? a cafeteria? What time was he settig it off? in the middle of the night? during lunch time?

Possibly, but it is a bit long, especially for someone so young.

If he was old enough to plan murder, he was old enough to serve his sentance.

At 8/10/04 01:17 AM, Damien3003 wrote:
You're asking for a slap on the wrist for his plan to hurt, maim, or kill people.

No. This situation, one cannot go too leniant or too harst. He should get what he originally suppose to get: About 10 years plus pshycological help.

Woo someone was detailed up there!!! I love it. I agree. It all depends on what time of day, where and such. If he was planting it in the cafeteria at lunch time, thats plot to commit mass murder. Dorm at night? SAME. Martha stewert was greedy and did alittle inside traden.. Alot of people do that and get shorter sentances then her! And the comment of, maybe he just wanted to help. not to kill.. Ya a pipe bomb helps people..... Teenagers commit suicide everyday. That is a very sad fact. But most suicidial teens dont go planting bombs, they dotn want to hurt others. Which makes me beleive at the time he was not suicidal. He wanted to kill people, just like mcvey and bundy. He didnt get the death penalty either A its not in that state, or B sense he didnt set it off, he got life instead. And the 80 year sentance... Um i dont want to sound alittle strange, but if im correct on my law, you can only serve 25-life max. So i dont believe it was 80 years, but in fact a life sentance. It could of been 80 years till probation.... I dont know tho. Punishment is harsh yes, but he did kill himself in prison, his own choice, and thsi may sound cold hearted basterdish, but if he had gotten out in letsd say 10 years.. What if he had planted a bomb in my college? Glad hes gone. Not glad he killed himself, thats bad yes, but glad he was put in prison.

Yo fli, did he ever plant a bomb? And were these 'plots' acctually real plots or jsut heresay or bragging?

I think he really ment to plant a bomb, which is why he got the time. Now the Q here is, why did he kill himself? Was he afraid of bubba? Or guilty.

At 8/10/04 04:58 PM, Celly07 wrote: I think he really ment to plant a bomb, which is why he got the time. Now the Q here is, why did he kill himself? Was he afraid of bubba? Or guilty.

Or maybe he was just wanting help and got the opposite and it sent him deeper into depression...

At 8/10/04 12:59 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Yo fli, did he ever plant a bomb? And were these 'plots' acctually real plots or jsut heresay or bragging?

No, he never planted the bomb. I believe he didn't tell anyone if I remember correctly. Come to think about it... how does anyone know there was a plot? The news said that he was plotting, but I don't remember if he wrote it down, or anything...

At 8/10/04 12:03 PM, Celly07 wrote: Punishment is harsh yes, but he did kill himself in prison, his own choice, and thsi may sound cold hearted basterdish, but if he had gotten out in letsd say 10 years.. What if he had planted a bomb in my college? Glad hes gone. Not glad he killed himself, thats bad yes, but glad he was put in prison.

Yes, although I'm not happy he is dead, I feel that Al is better off now, but not for the same reasons. He would had died in prison of old age.

Did the autorities even found the bomb on the photo's he was sending, and if so, did they investigate if it was even real? Anyway, what kind of fuck-up gives a confused kid 80 years for sending a few pictures. You know what? I think I'm gonna sent a few pictures of a piece of wood, and then get arrested and executed, because I threatened to club people to death.

Oh wait, I don't live in the the land of the US. Weeee, I can sent pictures and get away with it and you don't.

And smoke pot.

Maybe Al really tried to kill people or maybe he was just playing and scaring people with those bombs, but the truth is we don't know what he wanted to do and we will never know.
About the penalty i think it was too much, it would be the almost the same death penalty, commiting suicide or just dying as an old man in the prison because his life was ruined when he got the penalty.

At 8/10/04 03:27 AM, spanishfli wrote:

At 8/10/04 01:17 AM, Damien3003 wrote:
You're asking for a slap on the wrist for his plan to hurt, maim, or kill people.

No. This situation, one cannot go too leniant or too harst. He should get what he originally suppose to get: About 10 years plus pshycological help.

You said he was originally suppossed to get seven years. Which is it?

And ten years isnt enough for a plot to kill people at a college. That's what it was wasn't it? A low tech murder plot? I'm not going to beat around the bush and make ol' Al sound like a saint. Perhaps his sentance was extended because the nature of his plot was revealed?

You're so quick to blame it on his race, or 9-11. So quick to say he was just 'crying out for help'. And what is the reason you say this, again? Is it because you've kept constant contact? Is it because you spoke to him, prior to his arrest? Is it because you talked to him in prison? is it because you attended his trail?
No, nothing like that. Nothing RATIONAL. You're only justification is 'he did yearbook' and 'he was in my PE class'.
And then you act like I'M the one being naive.

Perhaps he got what he deserved. You know no better than I, so don't pretend to.

At 8/10/04 05:06 PM, spanishfli wrote:

At 8/10/04 12:59 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Yo fli, did he ever plant a bomb? And were these 'plots' acctually real plots or jsut heresay or bragging?

No, he never planted the bomb. I believe he didn't tell anyone if I remember correctly. Come to think about it... how does anyone know there was a plot? The news said that he was plotting, but I don't remember if he wrote it down, or anything...

I'm sure there was no plot at all. They just made it up because of his race, and to set an example to other would be domestic terrorists out there.

At 8/10/04 05:05 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 8/10/04 04:58 PM, Celly07 wrote: I think he really ment to plant a bomb, which is why he got the time. Now the Q here is, why did he kill himself? Was he afraid of bubba? Or guilty.

Or maybe he was just wanting help and got the opposite and it sent him deeper into depression...

If that was his way of crying out for help, then he deserves what he got just as much as if he was really a cold blooded killer.

At 8/11/04 04:48 AM, Damien3003 wrote:

At 8/10/04 03:27 AM, spanishfli wrote:

At 8/10/04 01:17 AM, Damien3003 wrote:
You're asking for a slap on the wrist for his plan to hurt, maim, or kill people.

No. This situation, one cannot go too leniant or too harst. He should get what he originally suppose to get: About 10 years plus pshycological help.

You said he was originally suppossed to get seven years. Which is it?

7 years, which is about 10 years.

And ten years isnt enough for a plot to kill people at a college. That's what it was wasn't it? A low tech murder plot? I'm not going to beat around the bush and make ol' Al sound like a saint. Perhaps his sentance was extended because the nature of his plot was revealed?

And the media wouldn't report such revelations, the same media that displayed Scot Peterson's credit card bills, and bank statements for the whole world to see and recorded his ex-lover's regailing of their private and intimate moments? Hum... perhaps the media just missed a friggin huge spot...

You're so quick to blame it on his race, or 9-11. So quick to say he was just 'crying out for help'. And what is the reason you say this, again? Is it because you've kept constant contact? Is it because you spoke to him, prior to his arrest? Is it because you talked to him in prison? is it because you attended his trail?
No, nothing like that. Nothing RATIONAL. You're only justification is 'he did yearbook' and 'he was in my PE class'.

Quick? Oh no... I mean, it did take a few *clanks* and some *clunks* before I realized, hey, pre 9-11, the original sentence he was suppose to get was 7. Post 9-11-- About 100 years (70 years if you like to be specific, or should I capitalize the word 'about'?) And then I notice that generally, prison sentences are harsher for minorities then whites. But if you want evidence, I'm pretty sure I can dig it up, if you like.

And then you act like I'M the one being naive.

Don't be silly. Why huff and puff, this is just a discussion. After all, I just want to talk about it, not to offend you. But if your going to take it that way, it is a problem that you have to deal with.

Perhaps he got what he deserved. You know no better than I, so don't pretend to.

Wait a second... yeah, your right. I change my mind. I'm following your lead and example. Man, life is much easier when somebody else makes up your own mind. Life is easier when you just follow. If only if I had copied you long ago!

Generally, I turn the other cheek around. Not this time. Don't make such patronizing suggestions if you don't like to be bothered.

At 8/11/04 05:53 AM, spanishfli wrote:

And ten years isnt enough for a plot to kill people at a college.

And the media wouldn't report such revelations, the same media that displayed Scot Peterson's credit card bills...

First off, you refused my point. Ten years is a slap on the wrist for a low tech bomb plot that may have killed people, is it not? This is a yes or no question.

And the peterson case was a high profile case, and you know it. Old al wasn't high profile...he was just a guy with bomb plot.

You're so quick to blame it on his race, or 9-11. So quick to say he was just 'crying out for help'.

Quick? Oh no... I mean, it did take a few *clanks* and some *clunks* before I realized, hey, pre 9-11, the original sentence he was suppose to get was 7. Post 9-11-- About 100 years...

I dont care what the reasons. ABOUT 7 years isnt a harsh enough sentance for a bomb plot. Maybe a hundred years is too much...maybe it's not. That's more of an opinion. My point was, he was getting an unjust sentence from the begginging...only for different reasons. It is unjust to give a man who plans murder ABOUT seven years in prison. ABOUT seventy is much more fair.
Yes, there it is. I have just condoned an extremely long sentance for anyone who plans murder. Aren't i Terrible?
Maybe he shouldn't have planned to kill and maim people. You've forgotten, what he did was a federal offense.

Perhaps he got what he deserved. You know no better than I, so don't pretend to.

Wait a second... yeah, your right. I change my mind. I'm following your lead and example. Man, life is much easier when somebody else makes up your own mind. Life is easier when you just follow. If only if I had copied you long ago!

Don't be silly. Why huff and puff, brother? Tis only a discussion. I'm just talking to you, not trying to offend you.

The fact is, you DON'T know the exact nature of his bomb plot (as i do not), so you cannot rightly defend him, or say he has been treated unfairly.

At 8/17/04 12:46 AM, Damien3003 wrote:
The fact is, you DON'T know the exact nature of his bomb plot (as i do not), so you cannot rightly defend him, or say he has been treated unfairly.

And you cannot rightly condemn him either because...

I'm bored...

somebody fill in the blanks.

Choa babe...

You know damien, it would be cool if you stopped triple posting every single time you post. : \

At 8/17/04 09:31 AM, MrBunchie wrote: You know damien, it would be cool if you stopped triple posting every single time you post. : \

Why would you care? It's not like your knee deep in this conversation, and my posts are harshing you up. What is this...the first time you've posted in this thread? Just passing the time until that flash downloads?
Try to have some kind of point, please.

I think i like damian... Your so quick to condem everyone but him! Its his own damn fault, he sent pictures of threaten to blow up a college room, or half a building or what? I pose this Q! What if it was your high school, and you would be sitten at the same table he ment to blow up... Would you want him back out in 7-10 years? If you say yes, please check yourself into a hospital! Thank you.

i hate this world.

At 8/18/04 06:48 PM, Celly07 wrote: Your so quick to condem everyone but him!

You're very correct. Everyone is guilty of being a prejudiced bastard; everyone is guilty in spanish's eyes...except, of course, his good ol buddy al. He refuses to consider the possibility that maybe al went off the deep end, and deserved harsh punishment.

What if it was your high school, and you would be sitten at the same table he ment to blow up... Would you want him back out in 7-10 years?

Sadly, he'd probably feel the same way. Minorities tend to stand up for minorities, no matter what the atrocity committed.