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At 2/5/06 03:38 PM, Uru_Baen wrote: Thanks, Monocrom. Means a lot to me to have someone say that.
You're welcome! ............. BTW guys, I just posted something on the General forum that MIGHT get me banned. But I felt it needed to be said. So, if I don't post in here for the next several days; you know what happened.
mono send a link to it! i wanna see what you said!
anyway, i was browsing through youtube.com, and i found a video of a guy who knows that 'dim mak' stuff. dim mak is supposed to be a pressure point that can kill people, and he was hitting people in a way to make their legs give out, and he could also do all this other stuff. go look up dim mak or somthing on youtube.com, its worth a look. do any of you guys think this is real? do you think anyone can actually do that stuff that he is doing?
to monocrom: i actually knew you were from new york, form what you say and stuff about nyc, but i looked at yourprofile once and mis-remembered vermont.
to everyone: just call me tom, that's my name, as is made obvious by my sn, but it's just easier to remember tom than tom3rulz.
At 2/5/06 04:52 PM, Tsuchiya wrote: mono send a link to it! i wanna see what you said!
Okay, here you go http://www.newground..id=427415&page=2 scroll down to my 1st post on the page. BTW JoS saw it. I guess he realized I was just trying to make a point, and not be a dick. Guess I'm not banned! :) As, for Dim Mak, yeah it works......... if the guy you're using it against stands perfectly still so you can hit the pressure point at the exact spot! In a self-defense situation, with a constantly moving and determined attacker; good luck with that! ........... To: Tom - Glad to see you came back to the club.
of course i came back, what else do i have to do at night? yeah, i think this place will see alot of me, it's just that i sleep sometimes.
At 2/5/06 05:34 PM, Monocrom wrote:At 2/5/06 05:32 PM, tom3rulz wrote: it's just that i sleep sometimes.LOL ............. I thought you were more hardcore than that! ;)
oh i am alot more hardcore than that, i dont NEED sleep so much as want it in order to function at an effective level. without sleep, i fight worse, and as a result, am less happy.
At 2/5/06 05:37 PM, tom3rulz wrote:sleep=happiness.
Quite right! ......... Here's the self-defense scenario I promised for the members of the club to discuss: A woman spends the day at the local mall. She finishes shopping, and walks out with several heavy bags in each hand. Her car is parked on the top floor of the mall parking lot, only a few feet away from the elevator. It's late at night. There's only a handful of cars around. The lighting is barely adaquate. She walks to her car (or SUV) places the bags down, and starts looking in her purse for her keys. Suddenly, a hand reaches out from beneath her vehicle, and grabs her by her leg. She gets dragged down onto the ground. Her attacker emerges from underneath the car, climbs on top of her and rapes her.......... I'm not calling anyone here a woman. The same thing has happened to guys. Usually, they got mugged or murdered, instead of raped. Discuss what she did wrong, what she should have done, and what she could have done before-hand to prevent such an attack from happening in the 1st place. I'll post my answers to the situation after a few of the other club members have had a chance to post their views; based on their training & experience. (BTW, yes; that is an actual example of something that happens quite often in real life).
she could have gone to the mall with someone.
she could have started kicking violently at the guy when she was pulled down, if he were under the car he would have no escape but to retreat.
she could have carried mace or a taser or some kind of personal protection.
those are what i can think of.
actually, in the video the guy could send people into shock without touching them, they had medical experts there and a news team recording it, thats what i meant if you guys think was possible, if you can send people into shock without touching them. i know that getting a good pressure point in a real fight is really hard to do, but i think there are some masters out there somewhere that could do it, you know, those chinese guys that have been doing their kung fu or whatever since they were 3 and stuff.
about the girls situation, my immediate reaction to having somone grab my ankle from under my car would be to reach up with my other foot and stomp on that wrist as hard as i could, as if its a girl then she might have heels on and that would make that stomp even more effective. once i was down i wouldve been struggling and going for eye strikes and palm strikes to his temple, i dont know what that would do but i can imagine having someone slam their palm into your temple would be too comfrotable, and id fight till i couldnt fight no more. other then that, i dont know what would i could do.
Guys im sorry i always think its funny when people think its "Hardcore" or "will make them stronger" if they go with less sleep, or train when they get hurt badly. I think its really childish. Look if you go without sleep your body will not be at 100% and it will not make you any stronger. Same thing goes when your injured. Get rest, eat healthy, and take it easy. Those are the only ways you'll get better.
As for your self defense scenario. WTF?!?!?!? That is, im sorry, retarded. NOw the obvious answer is she should've checked underneath her car from far away but still. Where the hell is the self defense in that scenario. Its a girl getting fucking raped. Sorry but i dont find that as a good scenario.
the defense aspect arises from the theoretical of when the hand grabs her leg. the question is what she could have done to defend herself from that point on, and what she could have done beforehand to prevent something like that from happening, or made herself more prepared for if it did.
it's not that stupid, it's just a difficult sistuation and is asking what could have been done better.
At 2/5/06 05:54 PM, Monocrom wrote: Quite right! ......... Here's the self-defense scenario I promised for the members of the club to discuss: A woman spends the day at the local mall. She finishes shopping, and walks out with several heavy bags in each hand. Her car is parked on the top floor of the mall parking lot, only a few feet away from the elevator. It's late at night. There's only a handful of cars around. The lighting is barely adaquate. She walks to her car (or SUV) places the bags down, and starts looking in her purse for her keys. Suddenly, a hand reaches out from beneath her vehicle, and grabs her by her leg. She gets dragged down onto the ground. Her attacker emerges from underneath the car, climbs on top of her and rapes her.......... I'm not calling anyone here a woman. The same thing has happened to guys. Usually, they got mugged or murdered, instead of raped. Discuss what she did wrong, what she should have done, and what she could have done before-hand to prevent such an attack from happening in the 1st place. I'll post my answers to the situation after a few of the other club members have had a chance to post their views; based on their training & experience. (BTW, yes; that is an actual example of something that happens quite often in real life).
Hmmm... a interesting, but simple situation Monocrom. Well, the first of all, upon being grabbed, she should no longer care much about the merchandise, except for its weight value. Depending upon its contents, it could do anything from injuring his hand and forearm, to simply keeping him from pulling her down and under the car. Even if it merely stuns his arm, she still has her other leg free to stomp him mercilessly and if she was wearing high heels, one could expect bloody gashes in the attacker's arm/hand as well. Even if he was able crawl out from under the car; she still has another hand full of heavy bags, a car door, and a whole car in her arsenal at the very least. Oh, and if she's like any other girl I know, she probably has a cell phone somewhere on her person or in the car. That's my view on that situation at least. Of course you haven't identified what weapons the attacker was concealing or what mental/ physical condition he was in so this may not be perfect solution in some cases. This is a little too easy though. The only thing that would hold her back would be the way she responds to fear and being caught off guard. Still, thanks for the situation though. It got me thinking.
On another note, if you'd like to try to get the club logo made at the SSMR, go ahead and ask whenever you feel like it. I've caught Tombulgious on MSN, whom I forgot was an artist, and asked him to give it a try. I'll ask Akula and Carmelhadinosaur if they'll try their hands at it when I catch them. I'm not going to ask the SSMR though. I believe that club was mean for the requesting of sigs only. I need some more info on what yall would like it to look like though. Otherwise, I’ll just let them do as they wish.
Good to have you with us. Looks like you’re fitting in already. I'd love to here how your style uses ordinary furniture, tools, and appliance as effective weapons in self defense situations. I never once thought of a lawn chair as a possible weapon... I'd love to hear more on this.
At 2/5/06 10:53 PM, Semi-Shinro wrote: To tom3rulz:
Good to have you with us. Looks like you’re fitting in already. I'd love to here how your style uses ordinary furniture, tools, and appliance as effective weapons in self defense situations. I never once thought of a lawn chair as a possible weapon... I'd love to hear more on this.
well then it works out for everyone, because i love to talk about it.
yeah, lawn chairs are great weapons, john, one of the instructors at my place was asking people to pick things they thought could be used as weapons one day, and so people were saying things like 10 lb. weights (ouch! i got hit with that once, it hurts) and canes and the obvious things, so then he asks us to arbitraarily pick something in the vicinity, so we all walk around trying to find unlikely things, so then he tells us all to grab a body pad and walks outside. he walks back in with an unfolded lawn chair in his hand snd starts beating people up with it. it was the funniest thing ever.
another thing we love to do at the place i go to (from now on i will call it scornavacco, as the center is called scornovacco family martial arts, and it is easier) is strobe light. it is a small step up from fighting in the dark, and you really learn alot. we often do this excercise in the strobe light that is called a reality check. it is where two people come at you fighting 3/4 speed and constantly attacking you, and you have to fend em off. this is hard enough in regular light, but next to impossible in the flickering light of the strobe.
the difficulty of this thing is only fully realized in the pitch black though, when almost no matter what, unless you know how to blind grapple, two people have a staggering advantage.
we also have, in my eyes, the best policy ever. when i first signed up for this class, i signed a death waver. and after i signed that and got to know my classmates, i was told about it. it is as follows: if you hit one of your class mates, or injure them in any way, do not apologize. if you are hit or injured in any way by any of your class mates, you apologize to them for being unable to move yourself out of the way, or defend yourself.
this may seem like it is stupid and idiotic, but it is actually a great thing. when someone accidentally hurts someone else, like for instance one time we were doing how to use peoples knees to put em on the ground, and i pushed a bit too hard on my partner's knee, so he went down really hard and wasn't expecting it, so he broke his nose on a dumbell that was lying on the side. so normally outside of this place, one would become angered and attack the offender, but here this prevents nasty feelings and people don't break out in fights. one time we had a guy come in and try out the program, but he was a really bad disciplinarian who thought he was an ultimate fighter of some sort. so he asks my instructor rance how we teach infliction of pain, so rance reaches out and grips the flesh under the guy's collarbone and dropped him to his knees screaming. so with us, we learn what we can from it, then apoligize for falling into the trap. this guy got really pissed off and threw a punch at rance. so rance proceeds to wipe the floor with the guy, and since this guy signed a waiver, we never saw him again.
when you use apologies, this doesn't happen.
at scornavacco we learn so many little things like this that i would have to be constantly mentioning them to spread them all. it is a great program, and i love it and i love talking about it.
sorry about the double post, but i completely forgot to elaborate on the chair-fighting for you.
when he walked in with the chair everyone got all tensed up because we knew he was gonna beat our asses with it, (on a side note, in scornavacco fluidity and complete relaxation are taught, as most know how this is advantageous in a fight) but everyone tensed up, so he cam froward and started jabbing people's pads with the end of the part you sit one (mind you the chair is assembled and unfolded, not wwe style closed) and people are getting knocked down, ao then he grabs the back legs and gets in vertical hits with the bottoms of the front legs, then grabs the support bars that run horizantally between the two fron and two back legs and starts side swiping people with the edge of the back of the chair.
he then grabs hold of the front left and back right leg, just above the suppots bars, and challenges anyone to take it from him. no one could, because there is so much leverage there, and when someone pulls on the chair, you can move towards them, folding the chair, and messing up their arms, then kick em off. lawn chairs are also sturdy weapons because they usually have aluminum or steel frames, and the metals are light and durable. like beating someone with a multi-faceted golf club, but you can sit down when you're done.
on a side note, i got a new sig, who likes it?
that stobe light fighting thing sounds cool, im all into odd fighting scenerios like that. we i progress more into ninjutsu ive heard that we practice fighting while standing on marbles or on ice, and that we practice outside at night. but im a ways away from that training.
At 2/6/06 12:04 AM, Tsuchiya wrote: that stobe light fighting thing sounds cool, im all into odd fighting scenerios like that. we i progress more into ninjutsu ive heard that we practice fighting while standing on marbles or on ice, and that we practice outside at night. but im a ways away from that training.
yeah we do that kind of thing too. one time we all went up on a fishing and hunting retreat up in the mountains here, and while up there we did a bunch or random stuff, like breaking twigs with our faces while our hands and feet were tied behind our backs and such. i don't know exactly we broke twigs with our faces, but it sure taught me how to move my back with finesse, because the twigs were on flat ground, so i couldn't just neck it. you have to put it under your top teeth and then you can't bend your head back, because these were sapling twigs, so you had to extend your back while on your knees like a worm, until you were at about a 90 degree angle with the twig, then at that point you could just push down on it. sounds really obscure, but now i can move around like a worm with my hands and feet tied
we also tried catching fish with our hands, only one guy was able to do that. but basically we spend a whole weekend up in the mountains hunting and fishing and learning wierd stuff that when all compiled added to our knowledge.
if i could i would train ninjutsu methods as well, because i like ninjutsu and japan in general, buit there's nothing on it around here. there is an iai-jutsu school, but like i have mentioned, it is expensive as hell and i can't afford it, what with me paying off all of the knives i get.
what we do when we want to learn something specific is ask. the instructors will then teach us all they know about what it is we ask about, and lessons often run 2 even 3 and a half hours late because of it, because nobody wants to leave.
sorry about the double post, but ima have to sign off until tomorrow, when i will be right back here, because it is 11:30 here and i must awake at 5:30 for school.
good night to all,
sleep well, for you may never wake.
Mono, Faces just wanna say whats shakin' andgivea Pil seung shout out to the club.
Iam stuck on mobile patrol right now, so I will prob speak to you guys l8r today or tommorow night . later guys
Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and FUCK the prom queen!
The responses to the self-defense scenario were generally spot-on. It's important to remember that real world self-defense is not always about kicking ass or getting physical with an attacker. Practicing Awareness & Avoidence is your best bet. Shin is correct when he said the situation is simple! But a lot of folks walk around totally oblivious to what's happening around them! (That's probably why this situation continues to happen)! ........... Here are some other things that could have been done to help prevent the attack: 1) Most people who do heavy shopping, at a mall, usually do so on their day-off. I can understand wanting to sleep in; but had she gone earlier in the day, she could have left before it got dark out. No darkness = no attacker using it to conceal himself. 2) Checking under the car IS a good idea. But it should be done from a distance; using a good-quality pocket flashlight. (Mini-maglites retail for only $8 and are solid enough to use as a yawara stick. There are better pocket-lights, but the mini-mags do a good job, for the price). 3) Tom's idea of taking another person along is simple & very effective! (Most attackers don't look for a challenge! They generally look for potential victims who are alone). 4) If she couldn't get a friend to go with her, she could have asked mall security to have a guard accompany her to her car. (I'm not aware of a situation in which mall security has said "no" to such a request).......... Kicking violently at an attacker's exposed arm, when he tries to grab your leg, is a very effective response. But with a bit of awareness and caution, it really doesn't have to get to that point. Thanks for all the positive responses guys.
how would you guys deal with someone that is twice your size and really pissed off? the guy is just past the point of talking out of it, and he his after you, and his arms are about as think as your head. what would be the best way to handle that kind of situation? i dont think i would be able to get a good arm bar or anything on someone like that, and he'll probably have enough to muscle to just about take any kind of punishment. my best guess would be to just go after parts of his body where bones were exposed (like the knee caps or ribs), but i would be mostly lost in a fight like that.
At 2/6/06 05:16 PM, Tsuchiya wrote: how would you guys deal with someone that is twice your size and really pissed off? my best guess would be to just go after parts of his body where bones were exposed (like the knee caps or ribs), but i would be mostly lost in a fight like that.
Best bet is to run away! Why fight a mountain if you don't have to. Never be too proud to run! Your idea sounds good, if there's no exit to utilize. A guy that big could do serious harm to you. You'd be justified in using pepper-spray even before he actually touches you. Or, use your pocket-flashlight as a yawara stick. Once again, a mini-maglite works well. For about $36 you can get an Inova X5 from target. (It actually resembles a yawara stick! Solid aluminum, the LED bulbs will outlive any human-being before they burn out, and the batteries are guaranteed to last for 10 years with normal use)........... Oh, as for the dim-mak demonstration you mentioned earlier, it's fake. The only ones not in on it are the news crew filming it! The instructor is using a cheap trick. His students are in on it; and so are the medical experts! I'm not saying they're not real medical experts. (I bet they have all the proper credentials)! But, $$$ can be a powerful motivator; even for medical experts. Honestly, if it was real, why doesn't that instructor have like thousands of people beating down his door and begging him to teach them such a wonderfully effective technique for self-defense? (Let me guess, he'll probably say that it takes many years of training & practice to pull off that technique. So, the average adult who asks; sorry, already to old to learn it)! I've encountered cheap tricks like that one; many times in the martial arts community............ To: Shin - As for asking the SSMR, I'm afraid you might be right about how they only concentrate on Sigs. Your idea of asking those 3 individuals sounds like a better one. But yeah, we do need a better idea of what we want as the club's symbol; unless we're going with my idea for an abstract image. Please keep me updated as to what's happening with that. Thanks, Shin.
At 2/6/06 05:16 PM, Tsuchiya wrote: how would you guys deal with someone that is twice your size and really pissed off? the guy is just past the point of talking out of it, and he his after you, and his arms are about as think as your head. what would be the best way to handle that kind of situation? i dont think i would be able to get a good arm bar or anything on someone like that, and he'll probably have enough to muscle to just about take any kind of punishment. my best guess would be to just go after parts of his body where bones were exposed (like the knee caps or ribs), but i would be mostly lost in a fight like that.
i may have mentioned (i'm not sure) that i wrote a guide on something like this at one point. it is about how to fight jocks and those more athletic or muscular than oneself. this may seem like a dangerous thing, but i routinely get in fights with people bigger than me, seeing as i am only 110 lbs., and some of my friends that get picked on alot wanted some help. the advice i would give for fighting a mountain like that, that is if you cannot escape (the much better option), is to go for sensitive areas such as the groin or the upper lip. a big guy like that will be expecting you to cringe and cower, and won't expect any resistance you put up to have any effect on him, so he will get a bit cocky. most of my experience is with football players and wrestlers, who are taught to get hit, and move into the hit, so this might be a bit different, but if you get in a solid hit to the throat, groin, or maybe break his nose or gouge his eyes, that would be your best bet. because if you can't run, you have to fight, and you might as well put up some kind of fight, because you will get your butt kicked even if you don't. and if you have some kind of weapon like mace or a flashlight, feel completely free to use it, because it is most definitely justified.
ya, your probably right about the dim mak stuff mono, it was fun to think of it when i first saw it though. there might be some ancient chinese guy somewhere that knows it, but im sure he wouldnt go on tv and advertise it.
and we all probably should get a jump start on that sig, you new guys can throw in some ideas for a universal sig for the club if you want, it just can discriminate agaisnt any martial art, so it cant be more asian focused or more western focused, or more weapon focused over unarmed fighting, but thats about it i think, use common sense too.
sorry for the double post, but i didnt see toms post until after i posted my last one..
anyway, thanks for the advice, but alot of the guys who fight at my school are the "poke your belly with my head and punch your hips blindly" type of guys, at least from what ive seen, and a good solid knee to their chest would take them down, if not hurt them enough to do somthing else, so i dont have much experiance even seeing any mountain sized guys around at all, but if i do i want to be prepared. im a little worried because almost every art ive done focused more on locks and arm bars rather than striking, so i dont know too much on striking principles, most of what i say on that type of thing is just wild guessing based off of what ive done to myself and noticed that it hurt sort of thing...
hmm... the first thing that comes to mind for a sig is a ornage-red background, like a sun setting like in an anime, universally applicable to all parts of the world, and the side profile silhouettes of two warriors/ fighters/ martial artists or whatever facing each other ready to fight. then in the middle it would say "NG Martial Arts Club". but thats just a prelim idea.
sorry about the double post, but i didnt see your second one tsuchiya until i made mine. and yeah, the thjings i said about the mountaiin type guy were only the things that would do any damage. for thoise big "dick around and joke around with you" guys, there are so many more things you could do, i wrote a nine-page guide about it. if i had it posted on the internet somewhere, i would send you a link, but i don't. if you want to see it, i could certainly email it to you, this is for anyone that wants to see it, but i don't know any good places to display a text document online, so that's about the only way you will/would be able to saee it right now.
Okay here is a more realistic scenario. A kid is in your school and is just being a straight up ass. He is fucking with everyone, throwing shit at people, making loud abnoxious jokes, and is about to start a fight with a kid that seems to have low self esteem. What do you do?
depends on two things: the opressor and the opressed. if i know the kid being picked on, i will step up. if i don't like the opressor, as is the case about 95% of the time, i will step up. this happenned the other day, my friend micheal was being yelled at by this senior guy, and micheal is relatively worthless in a fight, not because of size ar anything, but because he has never been in a fight, and his reflexes aren't too great. so i step up and beat the hell outa the senior guy, and micheal tells me i shouldn't have, because i got a day of suspension. but generally it's an excuse to fight in my eyes, so i would usually step up.
At 2/6/06 10:18 PM, tom3rulz wrote: depends on two things: the opressor and the opressed. if i know the kid being picked on, i will step up. if i don't like the opressor, as is the case about 95% of the time, i will step up. this happenned the other day, my friend micheal was being yelled at by this senior guy, and micheal is relatively worthless in a fight, not because of size ar anything, but because he has never been in a fight, and his reflexes aren't too great. so i step up and beat the hell outa the senior guy, and micheal tells me i shouldn't have, because i got a day of suspension. but generally it's an excuse to fight in my eyes, so i would usually step up.
The scenario is the guy is minding his own business and some guy is being a dick to him. You dont know much about the oppressed cept for the fact he is quite.
As for you fighting dont be like that. You should never hit someone until someone is hit first. Here is the answer to the scenario i gave.
Usually if a person is being a loud abnoxious asshole they really wont do anything. All you gotta do is get in their face, tell them to cut it out unless they want to start anything. Most likely if you do this you will kill their self esteem and all their friends would laugh at him. It'll most likely end the whole thing. This i know from several experiences. Its funny when me, being so skinny and all, scare the shit out of people. What time i was offered money to beat out of someone like tht but i denied. I dont like fighting and wouldnt do it fro money. Reason people offered me money. They knew i was a second degree black belt. Who knew that would make people fear you.