The Us Prison Population!!!1Eleven1

[RedSkunk]

America's prison population has hit an all-time high. Combine it with those on probation or parole, and we're talking large numbers. Check teh script:

"The US has nearly 6.9 million people - roughly 3.2% of the adult population - in prison or on probation or parole, a Justice Department report reveals.

More than 130,000 people were processed by the criminal justice system last year, according to the report.

Experts say the rise in numbers is the result of tough laws passed in the 1990s, which have led to more people being sent to prison - and for longer.

Texas and California have the most people on probation or parole.
...
Of those discharged from parole in 2003, 38% ended up back in prison because they had committed fresh crimes or technical violations."
[ Full Story ]

What is the solution? How large of a problem is it? Are harsh penalties really a good thing? What about our atrocious recidivism(sp) rates? The "war on drugs"? Necesary, or additional burden?

[jonthomson]

At 7/26/04 07:08 PM, uncle_skunk wrote: America's prison population has hit an all-time high.

It's doubled since 1985</soad>

[Camarohusky]

At 7/26/04 07:14 PM, jonthomson wrote:

At 7/26/04 07:08 PM, uncle_skunk wrote: America's prison population has hit an all-time high.

It's doubled since 1985</soad>

It has nothing to do with me being born in 85...

*looks around with shifty eyes.*

[Wraith]

There is a very large problem with a slow justice system. We have men on death row that have been there for months, maybe even years. We need to streamline the system.

Also, I was just wondering. Isn't it possible that there would be more people in prison because of a larger population? Sort of a percentage thing?

[Gunter45]

Even still, 3.2% is kind of a lot.

[Wraith]

Well, what could be the reasons for the rise, then? I haven't exactly seen any reasons why the inmate population should rise like that. Could it have something to do with the recent recession?

[antiklaus]

At 7/26/04 08:31 PM, Gunter45 wrote: Even still, 3.2% is kind of a lot.

Meh... - in Texas, 10% of the males have been through the penal system.

3.2 is mere piddlin' by comparison.

Of course to have that many folks in jail is a bit embarrasin'

[Celly07]

Well. Yes TX does have the largest prison population i believe, but also has killed the most people with capitol punishment.... I will qoute ron white

"Some states are trying to abolish the death penalty, mines putting in an express lane."

I think that somes it up.

[witeshark]

It clearly is a problem. Solutions are not gonna be easy and quick coming. Obviously a look at what root causes are involved in peoples' decision to commit serious crimes is needed badly. Look how many spam/scams there are -- pyramid scemes and scams and total bullshit seems to be a popular way to try to make money. And what about Microsoft? IMO the OS quality is an absolute rip off! Why should anyone have install so many 3rd party apps to make their system safe, only to have to do it again the very next day?

[IllustriousPotentate]

Here's an idea: why don't we just take over some insignificant banana republic and make it a penal colony?

Australia, and some of the States, turned out okay after being penal colonies.

[witeshark]

This is truly a very good idea!

[Spookshow]

One of the problems is revolving door policies. I.e. there was a man 75 I think who was recently released from prison to a nursing home because he raped someone a number of years ago, well despite his age, he raped and killed at 75 thus proving no matter how improbable something is, it can still happen. Maybe we should adopt a harsher sp* penal system, or maybe just let them fends for themselves. The truth is the prison system is just like all forms of government, there is no 100% right or wrong way to go about it.

[Montgomery-Scott]

We need to put all the violent criminals on a deserted island and be done with it. Just parachute them into Costa Rica -- and their not our problem anymore!! But seriously, its the tough drug laws. Kids are being put in Rikers for 20 years for posession of illegal substances. ITs bad, real bad. We need to ease up the drug lawas, and i tell you, the prisons will be alot less crowded.

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 7/26/04 10:31 PM, Spookshow wrote: Maybe we should adopt a harsher sp* penal system, or maybe just let them fends for themselves.

Yep. Let's revert back melennia to the time when criminals were thrown into gladiator pits to fight to the death.

They may be criminals, but they are still human. At least show a little compassion.

The truth is the prison system is just like all forms of government, there is no 100% right or wrong way to go about it.

There are plenty of things, though, that can be done to eliminate excesses and problems.

1. Decriminalize the drug trade, as others have alluded to. Not only would this remove recreational users from the system, but would curtail the number of drug related arrests and crimes.

2. Stop throwing the book at people.

3. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentencing laws.

4. Curtail extraneous items such as cable TV, etc, for prisoners.

5. Pass tort reform reducing the number of frivolous prisoner lawsuits.

6. Earmark money for pork projects for prisons instead. We can use more prison space than we can a rainforest in Iowa, for example.

[Spookshow]

At 7/26/04 10:50 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote:
Yep. Let's revert back melennia to the time when criminals were thrown into gladiator pits to fight to the death.

I didn't say that, but I was implying that we: stop babying them and revert to ALOT harsher sentences.

They may be criminals, but they are still human. At least show a little compassion.

Did they show any compassion for there victims? Nope. In some of the cases I've seen they aren't human any more. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

There are plenty of things, though, that can be done to eliminate excesses and problems.

1. Decriminalize the drug trade, as others have alluded to. Not only would this remove recreational users from the system, but would curtail the number of drug related arrests and crimes.

So everyone tripping out on LSD would be a good thing? I could imagine the number of people driving down the highway at 120 mph because "they" told them to.

2. Stop throwing the book at people.

I'd rather throw a chair.

3. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentencing laws.

So they guy rapes a woman and gets 2 years or plea bargains and get 2 months?

4. Curtail extraneous items such as cable TV, etc, for prisoners.

I agree, make them live in tents like in AZ?

5. Pass tort reform reducing the number of frivolous prisoner lawsuits.

I am assuming the ACLU ones?

6. Earmark money for pork projects for prisons instead. We can use more prison space than we can a rainforest in Iowa, for example.

I say less (space). We don't need to go out. We need to go up. Or maybe make a reality TV show about prison with NO censorship...

[IllustriousPotentate]

At 7/26/04 10:56 PM, Spookshow wrote:

Did they show any compassion for there victims? Nope. In some of the cases I've seen they aren't human any more.

However hideous the act may be, exacting revenge is not a good punishment. If they aren't human anymore, they need to be in a psychiatric center, not in a prison.

So everyone tripping out on LSD would be a good thing? I could imagine the number of people driving down the highway at 120 mph because "they" told them to.

I haven't advocated, or even support, the decriminalization of the act of driving under the influence. What I have said is that the use of drugs should be decriminalized.

The use of alcohol is also decriminalized, but you can't drink and drive legally. The same would be the same for drugs.

So they guy rapes a woman and gets 2 years or plea bargains and get 2 months?

No, so judges and juries can show leniency or strictness on a case-by-case basis. The punishment should fit the crime; it shouldn't be a constant, across-the-board-punishment. A guy shouldn't be in jail for life if the specifics of his crime don't match the sentence.

I agree, make them live in tents like in AZ?

Possibly. As long as the prisoners aren't endangered or subjected to cruel and unusual punishment.

I am assuming the ACLU ones?

You would be assuming incorrectly.
http://www.cse.org/newsroom/press_template.php?press_id=287
Just a few examples.

[RealNinja]

I have a few simple solutions to the problem

#1 Corporal punishment- Take small time offenders like small drug dealers, petty thieves, hackers, vandals, scammers, DUI. Then flog them in the town square

#2 Legalize Marijuana- Easy just make the stuff legal and tax it, generates revenue and a lot fo people are in jail for dealing ti and its hardly much worse than alcohol.

#3 Switch Drinking age and Driving age- Just make it legal to drink at 18 and legal to drive at 21, i don't know if it would reduce jailings much but I think it'd make the country safer.

#4 Poetic justice department- A department to make punishments that better fit the crime.

[RedSkunk]

At 7/26/04 10:50 PM, IllustriousPotentate wrote: text

Me and illustrious are on the same wave-length. A large number of current offenders in prison, are there because of drug-related crimes. It's asinine. Additionally, I think mandatory minimums and "harsh penalties" are large contributing factors here.

I don't believe the fear of a harsh punishment works very well. We need to address the real root causes of crime. Poverty, ignorance. Drug laws.

[Jerconjake]

Holy crap, a poetic justice department is a great idea.

Other than that, I say legalize and regulate drugs and use the revenue from drug consumption to build the following:

A large, inescapable island (due to being in the middle of nowhere) where ALL criminals could be left to rot. The island would not be policed and no one on it would be fed except by things that inmates scavenged themselves. We could let the animals wipe themselves out. If you knew that committing a crime would mean going somewhere like this, would you still steal that little old lady's purse?

[TheShrike]

Legalize marijuana.

That would solve at least a percent.

[Wraith]

At 7/27/04 01:52 AM, Jerconjake wrote: A large, inescapable island (due to being in the middle of nowhere) where ALL criminals could be left to rot. The island would not be policed and no one on it would be fed except by things that inmates scavenged themselves. We could let the animals wipe themselves out. If you knew that committing a crime would mean going somewhere like this, would you still steal that little old lady's purse?

Maybe for serial-killers and rapists, but going there for something like mugging is so much fucking overkill it's not even funny.

[Spookshow]

We need to fight fire with fire. A good bit of my experience is things like conciling, medication, etc. do NOT work. Maybe treating repeat offenders as they treat other people would work better.

[Jerconjake]

Overkill should not exist when dealing with crime. The reason people find crime worthwhile is because the judicial system is shit and doesn't punish them properly. If we had the death penalty for crime no matter how small amongst adults, nobody would ever commit small crimes again. All criminals have committed crimes, so none deserves special treatment.

[Camarohusky]

At 7/27/04 03:38 AM, Jerconjake wrote: Overkill should not exist when dealing with crime. The reason people find crime worthwhile is because the judicial system is shit and doesn't punish them properly. If we had the death penalty for crime no matter how small amongst adults, nobody would ever commit small crimes again. All criminals have committed crimes, so none deserves special treatment.

I doubt some criminal thinks "ok, I'll rape that girlover there, steal all of her money, burn her house down, and take her car, because I know the government will drop me in a concrete box insterad of sending me to a deserted island..."

No, they do it because they don't think they will get caught, that is if they even think about the consequences, which I'm sure is a very large rarity in crime.

[Spookshow]

Another thing we should adress is morals and what people consider punishments for laws, and be UNBENDABLE, i.e. NO plea bargains when certain crimes have been committed. Good example:

Folding stock on SAR-1: (Max)10 years $250,000 fine. (Usually) 5 years $10,000 fine.
Rape a woman: 2 years and usually no fine.

[RedSkunk]

If we had the death penalty for every crime (ignoring the improbability of it, and the impossibility of enforcing it), crime would increase.

Instead of stealing the candy bar. Someone would steal it, the money in the cash register, kill the clerk, and rape the customer.

Why not? Same penalty either way.

[Spookshow]

We need to stop treating criminals with kid gloves. Stop saying so what if he killed 30 people, he still has the right to sleep in a warm bed at night.

[Einzelgaenger]

The removal of drug laws and the end to the so called 'war on drugs' would reduce the prison population more than any other one thing. A good first step would be to legalize marijuana.

[Slizor]

The US should try to tackle the root causes of crime - poverty and deprivation. You all know that crime is highest in areas of high deprivation and so if we tackle these areas we will tackle crime. LBJ set up a program called "Headstart" which funded programs to give very young kids (pre-schoolers) in deprived areas with some help. Long-term studies have shown that it saves like 7 or 12 (can't remember which) dollars for every one dollar spent - because the people aren't on welfare, they're not in prison, etc (Bush is now thinking of shutting the program down as it is too costly.)

Programs like "headstart" (which only very right-wing people should find objectionable) and a full employment policy (a few more people would find this objectionable) would do wonders for US crime rates.

[Spookshow]

At 7/27/04 07:15 AM, Einzelgaenger wrote: The removal of drug laws and the end to the so called 'war on drugs' would reduce the prison population more than any other one thing. A good first step would be to legalize marijuana.

The rates of:

Drug related deaths
Violent crime
Robbery
etc
etc

would SKYROCKET.