Kerry Flip Flop On Money For Troops

[Celly07]

Im not saying Kerry would be a bad president, and i wont say bush was a good president, but why Kerry vote FOR the war in Iraq, then when the bill came, he left the check for others, voted against their money? I'm just curious why.

[antiklaus]

At 7/26/04 08:46 AM, Celly07 wrote: Im not saying Kerry would be a bad president, and i wont say bush was a good president, but why Kerry vote FOR the war in Iraq, then when the bill came, he left the check for others, voted against their money? I'm just curious why.

You are oversimplifying the issues. If you watched the entirety of the funding debates on CSpan ( I taped them all, and watch them regularly), you will see that there was a bunch of pork on this funding bill. In fact, when several members of the congress stood up and demanded that there were amendments placed on the funding bill to guarantee that troops get flack jackets and ammo, and things to make their lives a little easier, they were patently ignored, and in fact, assured that these were irrelevant points.

A question you SHOULD be asking is this one...

Why is it that Bush claims to 'support' his troops, (he certainly supported sending them to Iraq on flimsy pretense) yet he cut their combat pay by 1/3 rd ??

If that's not a flip flop, I don't know what is.

Oh, and another worthy question...

Why are our troops making just over $1000 a month to protect oilfields in Iraq,

Yet the Haliburton oilfield guards (being paid for by the same tax money - ours) make $1000 a DAY - tax free?

I'm no fan of Kerry's but you know, he has a lot less control over policy than the guy at the top, and Bush has consistenty shown his colors... no bid contracts for his "base" (his words... for the elite)

and cuts in pay for those who execute his directives (the dutiful soldier).

[slicindicin]

He really didn't quite cut combat pay 1/3. As I understand it, he failed to extend a temporary increase to combat pay. It's almost impossible to trust any media sources on these kinds of issues. They will almost always be technically correct. Find the actual bill or executive order that is in question before spouting off about it.

[antiklaus]

At 7/26/04 09:30 AM, slicindicin wrote: He really didn't quite cut combat pay 1/3. As I understand it, he failed to extend a temporary increase to combat pay. It's almost impossible to trust any media sources on these kinds of issues. They will almost always be technically correct. Find the actual bill or executive order that is in question before spouting off about it.

semantic it whatever way you want. My buddy was making $150 a month before Bush's policy, and $100 a month afterwards.

He calls it a pay cut, and so do I.

[Spookshow]

So what do you think Kerry will do to US Military spending if he get's into office? It ain't gonna go up.

[antiklaus]

At 7/26/04 10:19 AM, Spookshow wrote: So what do you think Kerry will do to US Military spending if he get's into office? It ain't gonna go up.

Reduction in military budgets seldom if ever mean pay cuts for the soldiers. In fact, during my tour of duty, the military budget was cut by 33%, yet my salary increased by 8%... (no raises/rank increases mind you, just cost of living increases).

Military budget cuts usually do nothing more than increase efficiency and eliminate unneccessary weapons systems.

Hell, when I was administrating the budgets for the mess hall, we were given more than our needed budget requirement every year, but we spent it all just to make sure we got it the next year. What this usually meant was one blowout meal at the end of the year where everyone got lobsters and high dollar steaks. Don't get me wrong, our troops deserve this kind of treat, but certainly fiscal responsibility applied to weapons systems could only be useful.

[Spookshow]

Any weapon system that the military considers is usually effective. I would rather take a pay cut and my gun shoot when I pulled the trigger than get an extra $50 at the end of the month.

[duckman1088]

like i allways have said .... kerry offers flip flops.... bush offers tax breaks

[antiklaus]

At 7/26/04 10:28 AM, Spookshow wrote: Any weapon system that the military considers is usually effective. I would rather take a pay cut and my gun shoot when I pulled the trigger than get an extra $50 at the end of the month.

That is a blatant over generalization.

Troop level ordinance is seldom touched by budget cuts. Usually what goes by the wayside are ineffective systems like the Patriot missile, which had an appaling 20% success rate at hitting enemy missiles (and a 0 % success rate at stopping Skuds) but still managed to get extended contracts for development and deployment.

Or multibiliion dollar stealth bombers which have a higher failure rate, operational cost, and less payload than conventional ones.

I could cite example after example. Many weapons sytems are simply pork for the defense industry. I'd rather see a lean army with proven technologies and solid support lines than one with spotty high tech gear.

[Spookshow]

Ok I see your point. So why did Clinton not equip our guys with Interceptors and UA kits?

[duckman1088]

he was too busey geten his dick sucked

[Spookshow]

Good point. :P But why, given the proven effectiveness of places like Somalia, did he not order more?

[Celly07]

Q for ant, do you really tape cspan and watch it over and over again? O.o man, remind me not to get into political debate with you, do u have a life outside of cspan? Could i borrow those tapes sometime, i get bored watchen CNN. But ya, Bush flip flops as well, i was just asking opinions on Kerries flip flops, someone should make a thread about bushes as well, Im a nonpartison. so it doesnt really bug me, both guys should burn in hell.

[Spookshow]

I started one on Kerrys gun issues.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/26/04 10:32 AM, duckman1088 wrote: like i allways have said .... kerry offers flip flops.... bush offers tax breaks

Yeah, for the Uber-Rich.

The top 1 percent of taxpayers, making $373,000 or more a year, will reap almost 38 percent of all the benefits in President George W. Bush’s millionaire tax cut.
The bottom 60 percent of taxpayers will get about 14 percent of the benefits, while those in the bottom 20 percent will see just 1 percent of the tax benefit.

http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/ns05292001.cfm

[antiklaus]

At 7/26/04 10:50 AM, Celly07 wrote: Q for ant, do you really tape cspan and watch it over and over again?

ocassionally - but only on the issues i consider really important. (note: i usually dub them to mpg and watch them on my pc.)

:: O.o man, remind me not to get into political debate with you, do u have a life outside of cspan?

sure. the AP, APW, NYT, AIC, AMC, BBC, RFE, a few college newswires, a smattering of periodicals, SciAm...

heheh... oh and I'm a major fan of anime (watching and production of-), music (as entertainment, and as a writer/producer), and literature (as entertainment, and as a coauthor of 1 novel, and a host of short stories, and poetry.)

:: Could i borrow those tapes sometime, i get bored watchen CNN.

If you contact me at [e-mail] (i rarely check it, but i do), I will compile you a dvd of newsclips and various other stuff.

:: But ya, Bush flip flops as well, i was just asking opinions on Kerries flip flops, someone should make a thread about bushes as well, Im a nonpartison. so it doesnt really bug me, both guys should burn in hell.

More power to you then. I think both candidates this year are mostly foul. I prefer Kerry over Bush in the same way I prefer stepping in dogshit as opposed to eating it, but its just a personal thing.

[The-Enforcer]

At 7/26/04 03:18 PM, antiklaus wrote: I prefer stepping in dogshit as opposed to eating it, but its just a personal thing.

Then vote for Kerry. After he taxes 80% of your money he'll shit down your throat.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/26/04 04:22 PM, The_Enforcer wrote: Then vote for Kerry. After he taxes 80% of your money he'll shit down your throat.

Come on, the taxz breaks Bush gives out are for the Rich anyway. Us normal working class and middle class people never get them.

[Celly07]

did anyone see the futurama about when they invaded this spider world that nixon gave everyone 300 dollars? That would be awsume if htat happened.

At 7/26/04 05:46 PM, Celly07 wrote: did anyone see the futurama about when they invaded this spider world that nixon gave everyone 300 dollars? That would be awsume if htat happened.

I think the satire in Futurama is top class.