Politics and school

[Devaint-Lucifer]

school should not be able to suspend and expell students for thier differences in political views.

i hate this crap

[Camarohusky]

At 7/22/04 07:49 PM, Devaint_Lucifer wrote: school should not be able to suspend and expell students for thier differences in political views.

i hate this crap

Please give me some examples...
then I will compliment.

[Reverend-Kyle]

At 7/22/04 07:49 PM, Devaint_Lucifer wrote: school should not be able to suspend and expell students for thier differences in political views.

i hate this crap

I don't think they can, but I never got the chance to find out. (Had Canada joined the war against Iraq back in March of 2003, I would have found out. I was still in high school, which means I would have had to stand for the national anthem.)

[ImmoralLibertarian]

At 7/22/04 07:49 PM, Devaint_Lucifer wrote: school should not be able to suspend and expell students for thier differences in political views.

i hate this crap

I noticed in the other posts that this happened to you.

If it’s as you say then this is wrong. And you should do something about it.

However, if you where disruptive or un-respectful to your teachers then that’s another matter.

I’ve been out of school for a year now, and looking back I realise that although I might not of liked it at the time, the discipline was important.

[Camarohusky]

At 7/22/04 07:54 PM, grand_retard wrote:

At 7/22/04 07:49 PM, Devaint_Lucifer wrote: school should not be able to suspend and expell students for thier differences in political views.

i hate this crap

I noticed in the other posts that this happened to you.

It did? seriously dude, tell us about it... We can't make a general decision on a case by case topic, so give us something specific to talk about.

[Reform]

If this is concerning the public school system, you are pretty much in a spell. The role of the public schools is to educate, not breed animosity among the faculty and student body based on differing political views. A school doesn't have to tolerate a student displaying a politically charged shirt or enchanting peers with something of the like. If a schools belives a student is obstructing their ability to teach, well you are out of luck. Remember, you have no rights in school, well atleast public school.

Oh and if whatever is bothering pertains to a private school, I have no counsel as that is a whole other field.

[ReddSky]

Kids in the USA have been ratted out by their teachers for expressing anti-bush thoughts, and held by the CIA.

[Metal69hed]

Humm?

[witeshark]

At 7/23/04 12:36 AM, Adun wrote:

and held by the CIA.

Yeah right, maybe CIA is hiring. Or something

[Camarohusky]

At 7/23/04 12:41 AM, witeshark wrote:

At 7/23/04 12:36 AM, Adun wrote:

and held by the CIA.

Yeah right, maybe CIA is hiring. Or something

Well, with all of their fuck-ups recently, they are in need of new staff.

[Gunter45]

All I have to say, is that if you make a big enough scene, you're likely to be suspended for that. As a public school student (which I'm guessing you are) you only have the right to be educated and to be educated in a safe environment. Thus, by bringing politics or any sort into the classroom, you are infringing on others' rights to learn, and thus, that must be dealt with. The system is not perfect, that's a given, but remember that politics has little place in school, unless you are taking a government or other social studies class that has something to do with politics. Even then, the politics need to be relevant to the topic at hand. Is it right that sometimes some politics are judged more heavily than others? Of course not, but to be fair, school is for getting an education, not for debate (unless it's debate class). I think there should be some way to be able to have an open forum in public school, and oh wait there is! You can start a club and talk about politics there. If they deny your right to create a club or organization because of your beliefs, then you have a case, and I would fully support you. Perhaps you should look into trying to do that.

[Camarohusky]

At 7/23/04 12:47 AM, Gunter45 wrote: You can start a club and talk about politics there.

Haha, speaking of... I did just that, but I did it for the sole purpose of putting it on my college application. I was the president and co-founder my senior year, It died out by March of that year.

[TheShrike]

At 7/23/04 12:36 AM, Adun wrote: Kids in the USA have been ratted out by their teachers for expressing anti-bush thoughts, and held by the CIA.

One single example is all I ask.

Now show me the money.

[Gunter45]

At 7/23/04 12:50 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 7/23/04 12:47 AM, Gunter45 wrote: You can start a club and talk about politics there.

Haha, speaking of... I did just that, but I did it for the sole purpose of putting it on my college application. I was the president and co-founder my senior year, It died out by March of that year.

I wanted to do something like that, but I figured that my being captain of the wrestling team and having a good SAT score was enough to counteract my lack of effort in high school. Guess I was right, I'm enrolled in one of the most competitive schools in the nation, so I guess those people who told me that I actually had to try to go to college back in high school can apply vigorous tongue pressure and a great deal of suction to a highly sensitive region of my anatomy. Seriously though, I'm cracking down hard on the books now, and it's not fun, oh well, at least it actually counts for something now.

[Camarohusky]

At 7/23/04 01:17 AM, Gunter45 wrote: I'm enrolled in one of the most competitive schools in the nation,

What college is that?

[Gunter45]

The University of Texas at Austin. Largest student body population in the nation, 50000 people.

[Metal69hed]

Ouch. 50,000.

[Gunter45]

You'd think it would be easy to get into a university with such a large student body, turns out that it is one of the most competative.

[mabzie]

At 7/22/04 07:54 PM, ohp-kyle wrote:
I don't think they can, but I never got the chance to find out. (Had Canada joined the war against Iraq back in March of 2003, I would have found out. I was still in high school, which means I would have had to stand for the national anthem.)

that made no sense... at all

[exide-edge]

At 7/22/04 07:49 PM, Devaint_Lucifer wrote: school should not be able to suspend and expell students for thier differences in political views.

With this kind of behavior free speech is in danger because future generations will be taught not to voice there opinion...just how the feds like it.

[Reform]

At 7/23/04 08:05 AM, exide_edge wrote: With this kind of behavior free speech is in danger because future generations will be taught not to voice there opinion...just how the feds like it.

At school, your sole purpose is to learn, you can spill your heart out outside of school.

[Reverend-Kyle]

At 7/23/04 07:56 AM, mabzie wrote:

At 7/22/04 07:54 PM, ohp-kyle wrote:
I don't think they can, but I never got the chance to find out. (Had Canada joined the war against Iraq back in March of 2003, I would have found out. I was still in high school, which means I would have had to stand for the national anthem.)

that made no sense... at all

Which part didn't you understand? Maybe I should have said, "If Canada joined the war against Iraq, I would not have stood up for the national anthem." Since Canada didn't join, I never found out if I would be punished for a political view.

[ReddSky]

At 7/23/04 12:58 AM, TheShrike wrote: One single example is all I ask.

Is it really that hard to believe? Think the CIA's everyone's friend? The best example is an article like almost a month ago. The thread about it on NG is waay in the back pages somewhere, if not already deleted because it doesnt go farther back than 7 pages.

It was this kid who drew anti-bush pictures in a "draw anything" project in school. The teacher reported it to the principal, who reported to the CIA. The kid was held and questioned by the CIA.

"Im not exactly a pro at digging up old stuff. I already searched on google and I havent found it, you can try if you want.

[antiklaus]

At 7/23/04 10:07 AM, Reform wrote:

At 7/23/04 08:05 AM, exide_edge wrote: With this kind of behavior free speech is in danger because future generations will be taught not to voice there opinion...just how the feds like it.

At school, your sole purpose is to learn, you can spill your heart out outside of school.

When the 'process and institutions' of learning deny you the right to find and espouse an opinion that is not popular, then there is no education. There is only mandate.

FYI, the scool in question has no problems wih students displaying their political beliefs, as long as they conform to the conservative views (and in fact endorse them in the school paper), while suppressing those of the oppossing viewpoints.

Education at it's finest, unless you actually prefer your student to acquire the ability to consider a problem from multiple perspectives.

[antiklaus]

It was this kid who drew anti-bush pictures in a "draw anything" project in school. The teacher reported it to the principal, who reported to the CIA. The kid was held and questioned by the CIA.

"Im not exactly a pro at digging up old stuff. I already searched on google and I havent found it, you can try if you want.

Don't forget the number of inner city kids who are being 'mock arrested' by police in SWAT gear - all part of our wonderful educational process, or the two children accidentally shot in the course of these drills.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/23/04 10:07 AM, Reform wrote: At school, your sole purpose is to learn, you can spill your heart out outside of school.

WRONG.

School teaches you USELESS shit about Physics and stuff. The REAL reason for school is to train you for work. In school, you face conflict, and you grow up and face difficult decisions. The LAST thing school needs to do is teach you anything.

School should weed out the clever, and hard working from the lazy, and then allow the bright and hard-working to ascend the ladder of success, while the lazy just... well... dont.

Learning is a by-produyct of school. It's main purposes are to tech you about life, and the struggles by which you will face in work, and to sort out the hard-working from the not-hard-working. It should ALSO allow you to become your own person, and formulate your own views.

[Reform]

At 7/23/04 03:29 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 7/23/04 10:07 AM, Reform wrote: At school, your sole purpose is to learn, you can spill your heart out outside of school.

WRONG.

School teaches you USELESS shit about Physics and stuff.

Since when is Physics useless?

The REAL reason for school is to train you for work. In school, you face conflict, and you grow up and face difficult decisions.

I think it is rather obvious that schools are made to prepare their students to enter the workforce and become productive members (Atleast to some extent).

The LAST thing school needs to do is teach you anything.

Reiterate this questions please, you've somewhat lost me.

School should weed out the clever, and hard working from the lazy, and then allow the bright and hard-working to ascend the ladder of success, while the lazy just... well... dont.

You state this as if some are inherently more intelligent, clever, and indoctrinated with work ethos than others and that their state of mind will remain so.

Learning is a by-produyct of school.

What is everyone occupying themselves with during school hours then? Once again your statement has left me confused.

It's main purposes are to tech you about life, and the struggles by which you will face in work, and to sort out the hard-working from the not-hard-working.

... but then we are are learning something.

It should ALSO allow you to become your own person, and formulate your own views.

How do schools deny us of this? It seems that the both of us have formulated our own views.

[Reverend-Kyle]

School prepares you for life by surrounding you by a bunch of people you don't necessarily like, punishing you for not doing as you're told, and rewarding you for conforming.

I might be exaggerating with that conforming part, but school definitely prepares you to be a slave to the werk glocken.

[Reform]

At 7/24/04 01:47 PM, ohp-kyle wrote: School prepares you for life by surrounding you by a bunch of people you don't necessarily like, punishing you for not doing as you're told, and rewarding you for conforming.

I might be exaggerating with that conforming part, but school definitely prepares you to be a slave to the werk glocken.

All true.

[bumcheekcity]

At 7/24/04 01:00 PM, Reform wrote: Since when is Physics useless?

Since I can calculate the weight of an object such as the sun when I know the gravatational constant, mass of the object, and any other forces acting on the objects, but i've only had 6 sex ed lessons in my life.

Amount of times i've needed to calculate the weight of an object such as the sun when I know the gravatational constant, mass of the object, and any other forces acting on the objects... Zero.
Amount of times any information in sex ed has come in handy... eight. Bloody important it was too.

Therefore, I conclude that school is not about teaching you useless stuff like Physics.

I think it is rather obvious that schools are made to prepare their students to enter the workforce and become productive members (Atleast to some extent).

Indeed.

You state this as if some are inherently more intelligent, clever, and indoctrinated with work ethos than others and that their state of mind will remain so.

Some ARE inherently more intelligent, clever, and indoctrinated with work ethos than others, that can't be argued. And, to be honest, their state of mind usually remains the same. I know i've seen a few people give up all their studies and work for drugs, but the majority of intelligent, hard-working people will stay intelligent and hard-working.

Reiterate this questions please, you've somewhat lost me.

Things like maths and physics are the last things school needs to teach you. It should teach you about life.

I apologise for the confusion caused. My previous post was a little confused. The things they actively try to TEACH you in shool (maths, Biology, etc.) are relatively useless. You'll never use that knowledge in your real life. Schools TEACH you very few practically useful things.

However, true, you are learning important things like conflict resulution, strife, and anger management, just by being a teenager at school.

Ergo, true, the point of school IS to learn, but also to learn things LIKE how to express your opinion. Therefore, you really SHOULS be able to talk about your views and 'spill your heart out' inside school. In fact, I think it should be encouraged.