GM crops/medication

[robowing]

Recently in the UK news breakthroughs in medcine have been anounced thanks to Genetic Modification. But as soon as the word GM is mentioned the news papers go mad and start a hate capaign against them. The worst was the Daily Mail a few years back with Frankenstien foods.

Imagine a diabetic who doesnt need to take an insiline shot instead just takes a slice of bread. Theres a tomoto being developed that is resistent to cancer, that can be used in humans!

The point is the future is bright, the future is GM.

Do You Agree?

[Tekster]

They are propably just afraid that the tomatoes will make a lightspeed genetic evolution on their own and start eating people... you known, as a payback!

Alot of power making genetic modifications... can it be used for a more dark purpose like... warfare perhaps?

[robowing]

yes. theres a termination gene that has been developed. If it mixes with local crops the crops will last one season, then die without any chance of reproducing

[Kirk-Cocaine]

How could anyone be against GM Foods? Or just GM products in general. Gm could end world hunger; using GM crops and speical insecticide the grain production in europe is up nearly 7%. It don't sound much but that something ridiuclus like 1milion more tons.

[antiklaus]

At 7/15/04 05:36 AM, robowing wrote: Recently in the UK news breakthroughs in medcine have been anounced thanks to Genetic Modification. But as soon as the word GM is mentioned the news papers go mad and start a hate capaign against them. The worst was the Daily Mail a few years back with Frankenstien foods.

Imagine a diabetic who doesnt need to take an insiline shot instead just takes a slice of bread. Theres a tomoto being developed that is resistent to cancer, that can be used in humans!

The point is the future is bright, the future is GM.

Do You Agree?

GM foods have a lot of POTENTIAL - I will agree there.

BUT, businesses are unscrupulous, profit mongerers, who will and have created a number of GM crops that should NEVER have seen the light of day.

1) a number of GM crops are designed with 'suicide genes' which in essence prevent the plants from developing fertile seeds. While I could understand the reason for this if you were making an insulin corn hybrid, this is not for 'chimeras' but instead for regular corn or peas or beans.

What this does is create a dependency on 3rd world nations to have to buy their seeds from you over and over. And worse still, the suicide gene is known to be carryable via regular pollination. This means that if we are not careful, every breed of food producing plant could become 'infected' with the gene through pollination, eradicating the long term ability of plants to be grown from their 'fruit' seeds.

2) Hybridization of animal and plant genes could have unforseen effects upon the plants or the hormones they produce. The stuff scientists once thought were junk genes in the human genome are now being seen as vital to complex processes, such as protene production and hormonal regulations. Some junk gene in the hybrid could actually produce as an unforseen side effect that caused for example a disruption in normal protein or hormonal development in plants which iadvertently adopted their genes, or even possibly, how ever remotely, people.

[Gunter45]

At 7/17/04 10:03 AM, antiklaus wrote:

:And worse still, the suicide gene is known to be carryable via regular pollination. This means that if we are not careful, every breed of food producing plant could become 'infected' with the gene through pollination, eradicating the long term ability of plants to be grown from their 'fruit' seeds.

Genes aren't viruses that can "infect" other living organisms. And of course it is carried through pollination, that's how it becomes a suicide plant. All that means is that any seeds created from the genes will create suicide plants as well, or simply infertile seeds. This isn't Spiderman, you can't just transfer genes from one organism to another passively. To do that requires gene splicing and manipulation, which doesn't occur in nature.

[Darklilangel23]

did u hear about the GM corn its suppose to kill insects but the pollen also kills the good insects like butterflies for thousands of years monarach butterflies fly across the usa and now they are dying by the millions cuz of the pollen these corn stalks give off

not to mention the long term effects

who knows what it may do

look at girls nowadays hormones they put in milk to make the cow produce milk makes girls get to pubity faster and faster and grow boobs larger and larger

[antiklaus]

Genes aren't viruses that can "infect" other living organisms. And of course it is carried through pollination, that's how it becomes a suicide plant. All that means is that any seeds created from the genes will create suicide plants as well, or simply infertile seeds. This isn't Spiderman, you can't just transfer genes from one organism to another passively. To do that requires gene splicing and manipulation, which doesn't occur in nature.

I used the quotes around 'infected' to simplify the explanation, knowing that not every reader of this forum has a background in genetics like myself, I was trying to get into an involved explaination of genetics instead of the key point which is that those genes CAN become part of wild strain plants, rendering them effectively infertile over the course of a few generations.

i will for the sake of fairness, offer a simple example of how this 'infection' occurs.

G= normal gene g=infertile gene

GM plant would have the following gene pairs g g

Wild (normal) plant would have the gene pairs G G

GM plant------> g g
| ------------------------
Wild Plant | G | Gg | Gg |
| |__ ____|_______|
V G | Gg | Gg |
|______|_______|

In the course of a single generation, All of the offspring generated by the Suicide gene have become carriers of the gene.

Child Plant------> G g
| ------------------------
Child Plant | G | GG | Gg |
| |__ ____|_______|
V g | Gg | gg |
|______|_______|

assuming the effect of the suicide gene was recessive - which is actually the least damaging scenario, by the 2nd generation, you have created a situation in which 2 out of 3 viable plants (remember gg plants are infertile) carry the damaged gene.

If the suicide gene is dominant, then evey normal gene it binds with will suicide, and there will be no 2nd generation.

That's a scary proposal either way. It means that true breeding plants that drop seeds that can be planted with become rare or nonexistant. NOT a good thing.

[antiklaus]

GM plant------> g g
| ------------------------
Wild Plant | G | Gg | Gg |
| |__ ____|_______|
V G | Gg | Gg |
|______|_______|

In the course of a single generation, All of the offspring generated by the Suicide gene have become carriers of the gene.

Child Plant------> G g
| ------------------------
Child Plant | G | GG | Gg |
| |__ ____|_______|
V g | Gg | gg |
|______|_______|

GAH - the formatting changes I made did not post correctly.

I'll post it this way GG x gg (use foil method) = Gg, Gg, gG, gG
(all child plants are carriers)

f2 generation Gg x Gg = GG, Gg, gG, gg
(2 of three plants are carriers, 1 plant infertile, 1 plant normal)

and thats after only two generations.

[JoS-1]

At 7/17/04 03:47 PM, Darklilangel23 wrote: look at girls nowadays ......and grow boobs larger and larger

This is a bad thing?

[witeshark]

If GM is done carefully, I think it will result in good results. It's not all that different then breeding. Did ya know that carrots were bred to be orange to honor the house color of the family of the European growers?

[antiklaus]

At 7/17/04 10:27 PM, witeshark wrote: If GM is done carefully, I think it will result in good results. It's not all that different then breeding. Did ya know that carrots were bred to be orange to honor the house color of the family of the European growers?

Actually carrots are orange because of the pigment "carotene" but yes, selective breeding can create red, yellow or orange carrots depending upon the amount.

And while I will be the LAST person to say GM crops are evil, they need to be monitored VERY carfully. It is NOWHERE near the same as breeding. You tell me how you can get corn and cows to breed, and cite me one example of successful animal vegetable breeding and I will shut up (George Bush doesnt count, he is 100% vegetable).

When you insert genes from animal into plant then you have to be CERTAIN you are careful to isolate your plants. And when you engineer self destructing plants, even moreso.

But this is not the case. In fact, many farmers in 3rd world nation have noticed reduced crop yeild since neighbors have started using GM seeds. (As of yet no companies will volunteer to do analysis to confirm that the genes are responsible). However even according to Monsanto representatives, "It is likely that Terminator will kill the seeds of neighboring plants of the same species"
http://www.victoryseeds.com/news/terminator_gene.html

[Thanatos-DTH1]

Report on GM crops by the Royal Society

From what I read of this, GM crops are so heavily tested, and must pass so many review boards from so many different nations, that the likelihood of any harmful plants getting out and superbreeding is negligible.

[antiklaus]

At 7/18/04 10:51 AM, Thanatos_DTH1 wrote: Report on GM crops by the Royal Society

From what I read of this, GM crops are so heavily tested, and must pass so many review boards from so many different nations, that the likelihood of any harmful plants getting out and superbreeding is negligible.

If you looked at my previous quote, you'd notice that the INVENTORS of the technology feel there is not a chance, but a GIVEN that nearby plants of the same species will be affected.

[Thanatos-DTH1]

At 7/18/04 05:10 PM, antiklaus wrote: If you looked at my previous quote, you'd notice that the INVENTORS of the technology feel there is not a chance, but a GIVEN that nearby plants of the same species will be affected.

And if you read the report, you'll see that they take this into account, and won't plant anything that could possibly be harmful anywhere near a plant that could be affected by it.

[RedSkunk]

At 7/15/04 05:36 AM, robowing wrote: Theres a tomoto being developed that is resistent to cancer, that can be used in humans!

Yeah. I trust tomato testing. *rolling eye emoticon here*

Genetically modified food could be advantageous, if heavily gov't-regulated.

[antiklaus]

At 7/19/04 12:22 AM, Thanatos_DTH1 wrote:

At 7/18/04 05:10 PM, antiklaus wrote: If you looked at my previous quote, you'd notice that the INVENTORS of the technology feel there is not a chance, but a GIVEN that nearby plants of the same species will be affected.

And if you read the report, you'll see that they take this into account, and won't plant anything that could possibly be harmful anywhere near a plant that could be affected by it.

Yet they still sell these seeds to nations where these practices are not adhered to. It's like selling radioactives to countries which barely understand the concept of 'shielding' or 'moderators'.

[Thanatos-DTH1]

At 7/19/04 04:21 AM, antiklaus wrote: Yet they still sell these seeds to nations where these practices are not adhered to. It's like selling radioactives to countries which barely understand the concept of 'shielding' or 'moderators'.

This is known in the industry as a "good business practice." Because after all of their food crops are wiped out, they will be completely dependent on us for sustenance, and we can be the megalomaniacal superpowers playing god with the lives of other nations.
But seriously, the reason that we are selling the seeds to most of those nations is that their current food crops aren't adequate to feed their people. The GM crops produce more food for the environment they are being grown in, and more people get fed. Plus these food crops are tailor made for the region where they are grown. Meaning that were they to leave that region(unlikely), they wouldn't be able to flourish.

[Spookshow]

Sadly humanity will almost ALWAYS turn things into a dark purpose especially the West, look at Gunpowder, Nuclear energy, and such for a good example. Humanity makes mistakes and playing with something we do not have full control over shall most likely blow up in our faces. Yes, the possbility of good discoveries is incredible but the danger of what we could possibly do is too much.