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Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

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Mr-Akuji
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:18:49 Reply

At 3/21/01 09:58 PM, EvilGeishaWoman wrote:
At 3/21/01 09:52 PM, P-Chan wrote:
At 3/21/01 09:38 PM, EvilGeishaWoman wrote:
At 3/21/01 06:29 PM, Strafe wrote: Well, I believe that our justice system is far too harsh.
Too harsh?!?!
Are you on crack? We're the lightest country on Earth! You want to know what happens in a prison in Tokyo? all they will allow you to do is sit there and stare at the door. No talking, no walking around, no lying down, just stare at a wall. We need stricter punishment for criminals, and not resorts with iron bars.

Too harsh, bah! Bleeding hearts like you make me sick. They're prisoners! They are only entitled to freedom of religion, that's it. I hope he gets beaten before they fry him.
So funny... again Geisha misreads another post!

He was talking about that 14 year old kid that got a life sentence, NOT McVeigh! He's actually on your side! LOL!

Anyways, don't even get me started on the American prison system...
(although I think I might start soon anyways. ^_^)
I read all of it. I just disagree with the too-harsh bit. I know that kid got harshly sentenced, but he got exactly what he deserved. You just don't wrstle like that with a fragile 6 year old girl! It's just common sense! Now he has a very long time to practice not dropping his soap.
No matter how old you are, if you kill someone, you are a murderer: No ifs ands or buts about it.

PS: Akuji, I love this angel. Tell me where you got it.

It's a model kit from http://www.jjmodels.com/en/index.html

ENJOY!!!!

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

WadeFulp
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:29:51 Reply

At 3/21/01 03:45 PM, ray1912 wrote: Do you think Timothy McVeigh should die for commiting the Oklahoma City Bombing?

Yes, he should die, but I think the way we put people to death is to humane. They should lock him in a room, chained to a floor. Then release a couple dozen starved rats in there and let them gnaw away at him until he dies. Think of how many lives he took, and how many people's lives were affected from it? How can you duplicate that much suffering back on one person? Certainly not by putting them to death quickly and painlessly. A slow torturous death is about as close as you can get. Maybe keep him alive for a few weeks, letting some rats or something nibble on him here and there.


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Mr-Akuji
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:31:29 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:29 PM, WadeFulp wrote:
At 3/21/01 03:45 PM, ray1912 wrote: Do you think Timothy McVeigh should die for commiting the Oklahoma City Bombing?
Yes, he should die, but I think the way we put people to death is to humane. They should lock him in a room, chained to a floor. Then release a couple dozen starved rats in there and let them gnaw away at him until he dies. Think of how many lives he took, and how many people's lives were affected from it? How can you duplicate that much suffering back on one person? Certainly not by putting them to death quickly and painlessly. A slow torturous death is about as close as you can get. Maybe keep him alive for a few weeks, letting some rats or something nibble on him here and there.

AMEN!!!!!!!!

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

Mr-Akuji
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:50:13 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:48 PM, Dolomite wrote:
At 3/21/01 10:31 PM, Mr_Akuji wrote:
At 3/21/01 10:29 PM, WadeFulp wrote:
At 3/21/01 03:45 PM, ray1912 wrote: Do you think Timothy McVeigh should die for commiting the Oklahoma City Bombing?
Yes, he should die, but I think the way we put people to death is to humane. They should lock him in a room, chained to a floor. Then release a couple dozen starved rats in there and let them gnaw away at him until he dies. Think of how many lives he took, and how many people's lives were affected from it? How can you duplicate that much suffering back on one person? Certainly not by putting them to death quickly and painlessly. A slow torturous death is about as close as you can get. Maybe keep him alive for a few weeks, letting some rats or something nibble on him here and there.
AMEN!!!!!!!!
Oh yes, I have the ULTIMATE death! They should like tie him to tree near an antmound and beehive and smear honey all over him while he is stripped naked. Then the ants will slowly tear at his flesh injecting poison with each bite while bees sting him into paralysis. Then take his mutilated body and march him down a crowded street while people throw darts at him, and march him right up to a stake where he will be burned alive.. MWA HA HA

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!

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P-Chan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:50:17 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:29 PM, WadeFulp wrote:
At 3/21/01 03:45 PM, ray1912 wrote: Do you think Timothy McVeigh should die for commiting the Oklahoma City Bombing?
Yes, he should die, but I think the way we put people to death is to humane. They should lock him in a room, chained to a floor. Then release a couple dozen starved rats in there and let them gnaw away at him until he dies. Think of how many lives he took, and how many people's lives were affected from it? How can you duplicate that much suffering back on one person? Certainly not by putting them to death quickly and painlessly. A slow torturous death is about as close as you can get. Maybe keep him alive for a few weeks, letting some rats or something nibble on him here and there.

Wade, why do issues like this spark so much emotion in you? Geez... don't answer that..

-------------------------------------------

I think I see the differences in our ideologies. You guy(s) believe in revenge and I believe in utility. In my opinion this is waayyy too emotional of a way to deal with one's society.

In reality...

the Death Penalty is nothing more than a tool for revenge.

But if revenge is what you all want... then revenge is... ah nevermind..

We're all human I guess...

I gues it brings much satisfaction to see one's enemies smited.

I could go on and on about how illogical the death penalty really is in terms of utility, yet I don't think it would do much.

Many people already know... yet still keep that revenge attitude.

Mr-Akuji
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:51:38 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:50 PM, P-Chan wrote:
At 3/21/01 10:29 PM, WadeFulp wrote:
At 3/21/01 03:45 PM, ray1912 wrote: Do you think Timothy McVeigh should die for commiting the Oklahoma City Bombing?
Yes, he should die, but I think the way we put people to death is to humane. They should lock him in a room, chained to a floor. Then release a couple dozen starved rats in there and let them gnaw away at him until he dies. Think of how many lives he took, and how many people's lives were affected from it? How can you duplicate that much suffering back on one person? Certainly not by putting them to death quickly and painlessly. A slow torturous death is about as close as you can get. Maybe keep him alive for a few weeks, letting some rats or something nibble on him here and there.
Wade, why do issues like this spark so much emotion in you? Geez... don't answer that..

-------------------------------------------

I think I see the differences in our ideologies. You guy(s) believe in revenge and I believe in utility. In my opinion this is waayyy too emotional of a way to deal with one's society.


In reality...

the Death Penalty is nothing more than a tool for revenge.

But if revenge is what you all want... then revenge is... ah nevermind..

We're all human I guess...

I gues it brings much satisfaction to see one's enemies smited.

I could go on and on about how illogical the death penalty really is in terms of utility, yet I don't think it would do much.

Many people already know... yet still keep that revenge attitude.

Go fuck yourself!!

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

cableshaft
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:53:29 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:50 PM, P-Chan wrote: I could go on and on about how illogical the death penalty really is in terms of utility, yet I don't think it would do much.

i'm too busy to get into this now, but killing someone is more expensive than letting them sit in prison the rest of their lives, i remember reading a few places... i say let him sit it out... it won't give him what he wants, its cheaper, and he's too much of a wimp to try to escape anyway.

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BAHArts
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:55:36 Reply

At 3/21/01 03:45 PM, ray1912 wrote: Do you think Timothy McVeigh should die for commiting the Oklahoma City Bombing?

Hell yeah, but instead of killing him, let's torture him. Let's let the family members of the victims throw stones at him, but not enough to kill him. Then, we could put him in the box for 1 day, without food. Then finally, move him to a cell with 10 people and hope that they made him their bitch. For killing about 100 people, I think he should suffer.

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P-Chan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:56:35 Reply

At 3/21/01 09:58 PM, EvilGeishaWoman wrote:
At 3/21/01 09:52 PM, P-Chan wrote:
At 3/21/01 09:38 PM, EvilGeishaWoman wrote:
At 3/21/01 06:29 PM, Strafe wrote: Well, I believe that our justice system is far too harsh.
Too harsh?!?!
Are you on crack? We're the lightest country on Earth! You want to know what happens in a prison in Tokyo? all they will allow you to do is sit there and stare at the door. No talking, no walking around, no lying down, just stare at a wall. We need stricter punishment for criminals, and not resorts with iron bars.

Too harsh, bah! Bleeding hearts like you make me sick. They're prisoners! They are only entitled to freedom of religion, that's it. I hope he gets beaten before they fry him.
So funny... again Geisha misreads another post!

He was talking about that 14 year old kid that got a life sentence, NOT McVeigh! He's actually on your side! LOL!

Anyways, don't even get me started on the American prison system...
(although I think I might start soon anyways. ^_^)
I read all of it. I just disagree with the too-harsh bit. I know that kid got harshly sentenced, but he got exactly what he deserved. You just don't wrstle like that with a fragile 6 year old girl! It's just common sense! Now he has a very long time to practice not dropping his soap.
No matter how old you are, if you kill someone, you are a murderer: No ifs ands or buts about it.

I beg to differ. There's something called manslaughter too.

PS: Akuji, I love this angel. Tell me where you got it.

Of course it's murder. But hell, he's a kid!!!

If you put him in jail for the rest of his life, there would be no chance for rehabilitation... he's just going to suck money for his entire life.

Honestly, I'm sure the kid had problems, but you've got a far greater chance of fixing a kid who's 14 rather than trying to do that at 18. Mind you I never read the article. Did the kid have intention to kill? Was it an accident? Can someone enlighten me?

P-Chan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 22:59:12 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:53 PM, cableshaft wrote:
At 3/21/01 10:50 PM, P-Chan wrote: I could go on and on about how illogical the death penalty really is in terms of utility, yet I don't think it would do much.
i'm too busy to get into this now, but killing someone is more expensive than letting them sit in prison the rest of their lives, i remember reading a few places... i say let him sit it out... it won't give him what he wants, its cheaper, and he's too much of a wimp to try to escape anyway.

Thanks Cableshaft... I was feeling so alone! ^_^

I mean is it verified that he is getting HBO? I would have thought they'd put him in solitary! As long as they are out of societies way, it's all good.

P-Chan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 23:17:15 Reply

When thinking about the death penalty, here's a set of points to think about...

-It doesn't work as an effective deterent
-it costs more than life-imprisonment when you take account of the appeals
-there is always the risk of killing an innocent person
-I don't believe in this sort of revenge. As long as the offender is out of society's way (Eg. Life imprisonment) I'm happy.

(These points may seem familiar to some the users..) ^_^

I'd say more, but I have a feeling that I'd be stealing the points away from other certain users...

I remember this subject being brought up many times in the past, and I swear that it was really interesting to hear how many good points there are AGAINST the death penalty.

EvilGeishaWoman
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 23:20:24 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:56 PM, P-Chan wrote:

Of course it's murder. But hell, he's a kid!!!

So?

If you put him in jail for the rest of his life, there would be no chance for rehabilitation... he's just going to suck money for his entire life.

Alright then, kill him too. Like I said, Eye for an eye.
I know some people are going to hate me for posting that, but murder is murder, period. It doesn't matter. Unless you were defending yourself, you get punished for your actions. If they let him go, what do you think that's telling other kids in America who want to shoot up their school? That they can do it and not get proper punishment because they are children. BULLSHIT! He got what he deserved, and so will McVeigh. Besides, why would we need to rehabilitate him? It's not like he's going back to school any time soon. And as for McVeigh...
Flip the switch!
Kill the bitch!

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

WhiteRabbit
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 23:29:33 Reply

For those who are for the death penalty, and eye for an eyes, think about this, if your mom or dad, brother or sister, or someone really close to you was tried for murder, would you want the death penalty for them too?

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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 23:44:45 Reply

At 3/21/01 11:29 PM, White_Rabbit wrote: For those who are for the death penalty, and eye for an eyes, think about this, if your mom or dad, brother or sister, or someone really close to you was tried for murder, would you want the death penalty for them too?

McVeigh has a family too. This must be very hard for them to accept, but they know what he did was horrible. He knows it too. He should have thought about that before he murdered more than 100 people. Think of the victims' families, the people who lost their spouses, their CHILDREN!

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

P-Chan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-21 23:59:12 Reply

At 3/21/01 11:22 PM, Dolomite wrote:
Wow, somebody who can actually take a joke and not get pissed. Congratulations! Maybe more people should listen to what your trying to prove, eh? I dunno. Truthfully, revenge is sweet. But I only use it to get self satisfaction watching the quilty party suffer.

Thanks Dolomite! I must admit that I don't hear your serious side too often. It's honestly quite an honor to hear a compliment from you! ^_^

To me revenge is revenge...and it shouldn't be presented as anything else than what it really is.

cableshaft
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 00:19:18 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:59 PM, P-Chan wrote: Thanks Cableshaft... I was feeling so alone! ^_^

I mean is it verified that he is getting HBO? I would have thought they'd put him in solitary! As long as they are out of societies way, it's all good.

no problem man, i was just supporting you because i felt the same way. i'm personally not a fan of revenge myself...people see it as noble when they're really just using the same tools to do away with their transgressor, thus lowering themselves to the same level as the transgressor, instead of rising above.

but i don't agree with you on your most recent statements in females or women on men being more sexual than women are. i have a psychological case study to bring up when i get a chance to go out to my car and grab the book i saw it in that suggests that women are just as sexual, and become just as aroused as men, but tend to lie about it more.

but i'm busy trying to read my classic american authors for my test this upcoming afternoon, so i can't post it yet. so till then, later p-chan!

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

Ptarmigan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 00:29:02 Reply

Question: Who else should die? I am merely curious...

Good question, P-Chan. Don't we get all curious. If I can think more, I will answer your question. Here is a list anyway.

Murderers/Serial Killers
Charles Manson
David Berkowitz
Richard Allen Davis
Charles Ng

Mass Murderers
Martin Bryant
Terry Nichols
Howard Unruh

Ptarmigan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 00:33:56 Reply

Hell yeah, but instead of killing him, let's torture him. Let's let the family members of the victims throw stones at him, but not enough to kill him. Then, we could put him in the box for 1 day, without food. Then finally, move him to a cell with 10 people and hope that they made him their bitch. For killing about 100 people, I think he should suffer.

Actually the bombing killed 168 or some say 169, not 100. The 169th was a rescue person killed by falling debris. McVeigh deserves a slow and agonizing death.

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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 00:50:12 Reply

At 3/21/01 11:29 PM, White_Rabbit wrote: For those who are for the death penalty, and eye for an eyes, think about this, if your mom or dad, brother or sister, or someone really close to you was tried for murder, would you want the death penalty for them too?
hmm, you know what, White Rabbit...my mother has told all of us children time and time again, that if we do a crime, no matter how much she loves us,.we HAVE to pay the price for that crime. it is hard, i know right now that the family of one of the guys that killed my brother, is aching, and hoping that when Ralph is tried, he will not be condemned to death. it is sad, they are old people, and don't deserve this, but think, did i deserve to be sitting in a courtroom and see a photo of what Ralph and his zany pals did to my brother? did my stepfather deserve to look at a photo of my brother's face so mutilated that the police couldn't identify him by his photo ID? no. but had it been my BROTHER who did this crime, of COURSE i would be sad that he would be up for the death penalty, but, the punishment MUST fit the crime!

do you think, WR, that ever victim in the OK city bombing died instantly? do you wonder if any of them languished beneath rocks and rubble, their skin bruised and cut, and cried until they slipped away? you wonder whether those babies cried out for their mommies? i do. and i think that the fact that anyone should wonder about that at all, is good enough reason that a) he SHOULD be put to death. and b) it should be painful, VERY painful.

mysdaao
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 00:51:20 Reply

At 3/21/01 11:29 PM, White_Rabbit wrote: For those who are for the death penalty, and eye for an eyes, think about this, if your mom or dad, brother or sister, or someone really close to you was tried for murder, would you want the death penalty for them too?

And if your mom or dad, brother or sister, or someone really close to you was murdered, wouldn't you want the death penalty for the murderer?

P-Chan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 00:55:09 Reply

At 3/22/01 12:19 AM, cableshaft wrote:
At 3/21/01 10:59 PM, P-Chan wrote: Thanks Cableshaft... I was feeling so alone! ^_^

I mean is it verified that he is getting HBO? I would have thought they'd put him in solitary! As long as they are out of societies way, it's all good.
no problem man, i was just supporting you because i felt the same way. i'm personally not a fan of revenge myself...people see it as noble when they're really just using the same tools to do away with their transgressor, thus lowering themselves to the same level as the transgressor, instead of rising above.

but i don't agree with you on your most recent statements in females or women on men being more sexual than women are. i have a psychological case study to bring up when i get a chance to go out to my car and grab the book i saw it in that suggests that women are just as sexual, and become just as aroused as men, but tend to lie about it more.

but i'm busy trying to read my classic american authors for my test this upcoming afternoon, so i can't post it yet. so till then, later p-chan!

I haven't had much sleep for a while and I think I'm going to slip away too...

As for your psychological study, I'd rather not talk about it in this thread because I think we could end up diluting the subject matter here.

(I'll have to pull up the CO2 post or start another one.)

Anyways... about the study. You have to remember that I was talking about "promiscuity", which is basicly "overt sexual behaviour". Therefore, thought patterns wouldn't tell you much unless it translated into some actual action. Did the study say that these women had equal sexual behavior as men but merely lied about it? I'll get back to this tomorrow.

cableshaft
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 00:59:34 Reply

At 3/22/01 12:55 AM, P-Chan wrote: Anyways... about the study. You have to remember that I was talking about "promiscuity", which is basicly "overt sexual behaviour". Therefore, thought patterns wouldn't tell you much unless it translated into some actual action. Did the study say that these women had equal sexual behavior as men but merely lied about it? I'll get back to this tomorrow.

i forgot exactly how you had worded it...i don't think it mentioned sexual behavior no... but i'm going to look into it... anyway, enough talk about that now, back to the murder business...

if one of my family members was murdered, i'd want to keep the person alive and in jail...why? because if he's killed he doesn't have to worry about what he's done anymore. its over. he's happy because he never has to deal with it again (well, not happy, but better off). if the person is in prison for life, then him murdering the person MIGHT tear the person up mentally till he dies, or if not, he at least knows that he has nothing to look forward to except the cold steel bars every day for the rest of his life as well. which one is worse? to me, the latter is the worse of the two options, and if you believe in revenge then you should probably opt for that punishment.

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P-Chan
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 01:09:15 Reply

At 3/21/01 11:20 PM, EvilGeishaWoman wrote:
At 3/21/01 10:56 PM, P-Chan wrote:

Of course it's murder. But hell, he's a kid!!!
So?

If you put him in jail for the rest of his life, there would be no chance for rehabilitation... he's just going to suck money for his entire life.

Alright then, kill him too. Like I said, Eye for an eye.

I associate the statement "Eye for an Eye" with places like Iran, Saudi Arabia and other states run by religious fundamentalists. It's too zealot like for me. Personally, I'd rather stick with rational thought!

I know some people are going to hate me for posting that, but murder is murder, period. It doesn't matter. Unless you were defending yourself, you get punished for your actions. If they let him go, what do you think that's telling other kids in America who want to shoot up their school? That they can do it and not get proper punishment because they are children. BULLSHIT! He got what he deserved, and so will McVeigh. Besides, why would we need to rehabilitate him? It's not like he's going back to school any time soon. And as for McVeigh...
Flip the switch!
Kill the bitch!

I honestly doubt this would effect the crime rates, the world isn't that simple.

Also, I wasn't implying that you shouldn't punish him, I was merely saying that life in prison for a 14 year old is a bit on the harsh side. According to our culture/law, a 14 year old can't vote, is a dependent, and is deemed to be basicly mentally immature. Why on earth should he be tried as an adult? That seems like a double standard to me...

Remember, what you're saying about the death penalty is purely for revenge. Purely. If that's what you want then that's fine. Just realize that's all it is.

-----------------------------------------
(This sig pic is not a mistake)

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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 09:17:02 Reply

You want a slow, torturous death for McVeigh? Why not give him cancer?

Perdix
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-22 12:53:10 Reply

At 3/21/01 11:17 PM, P-Chan wrote: When thinking about the death penalty, here's a set of points to think about...

-It doesn't work as an effective deterent

That is irrelevant. You should not use the death penalty, or jail sentences with the intent to deter other people from commiting crimes. When you use them as deterrents you are no longer punishing them for their crimes, but for using them as an example, that should not be done. The fact that there is a punishment of any kind for a given crime should be the only deterrent.

-it costs more than life-imprisonment when you take account of the appeals

true

-there is always the risk of killing an innocent person

true, but that is why there is an appeals system.

-I don't believe in this sort of revenge. As long as the offender is out of society's way (Eg. Life imprisonment) I'm happy.

Justice should be seperated from revenge. The punishment for a crime, whether it be the death penalty or imprisonment should be either to get the criminal out of society, or to allow them to know that that their actions do have retributions (this case is for non-life term senteces)

There can be utility from the death penalty, by the simple reason you are getting rid of an intolerable part of society.

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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-23 00:20:34 Reply

At 3/22/01 12:53 PM, Perdix wrote:
At 3/21/01 11:17 PM, P-Chan wrote: When thinking about the death penalty, here's a set of points to think about...

-It doesn't work as an effective deterent
That is irrelevant. You should not use the death penalty, or jail sentences with the intent to deter other people from commiting crimes. When you use them as deterrents you are no longer punishing them for their crimes, but for using them as an example, that should not be done. The fact that there is a punishment of any kind for a given crime should be the only deterrent.

It would be much appreciated if you could elaborate on that point.

-it costs more than life-imprisonment when you take account of the appeals
true

-there is always the risk of killing an innocent person
true, but that is why there is an appeals system.

Appeals cost a helluva lot. And our appeal system isn't perfect.

Here's an old quote I used in a previous post, I have no idea if it's still accurate. ^_^

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PREVIOUS POST

Did you know that 350 people convicted of capital crimes in the USA between 1900 and 1985 were innocent of the crimes charged? Some of these prisoners escaped execution by minutes, but 23 were actually executed.

23 isn't very much? Maybe. But realize that these people are only the ones who were saved....

Study 2: A US Congressional report listed 48 condemned men who had been freed from death row since 1972. The report blamed inadequate legal safeguards to prevent wrongful executions and listed numerous inherent flaws in the criminal justice system. The report concluded: "Judging by past experience, a substantial number of death row inmates are indeed innocent, and there is a high risk that some of them will be executed."
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-I don't believe in this sort of revenge. As long as the offender is out of society's way (Eg. Life imprisonment) I'm happy.
Justice should be seperated from revenge. The punishment for a crime, whether it be the death penalty or imprisonment should be either to get the criminal out of society, or to allow them to know that that their actions do have retributions (this case is for non-life term senteces)

There can be utility from the death penalty, by the simple reason you are getting rid of an intolerable part of society.

You're right Perdix. Eliminating a person is still a utility. I made a mistake. What I should have said is that... a prison sentence would give more utility than an execution would. This is because...

A) the effects would be the same (elimination of an individual)

and...

B) there would be lower costs and less problems involved when you use imprisonment.

It's good that you mentioned that comment because it got me thinking about what utility really is. Afterall people like executions right? Executions would happen if there was no utility involved!

I'm wondering could "revenge" itself be a utility? Could this be feeding some desire in us?

I'm sure it makes people feel good knowing that a so-called "evil person" was killed for his "evil acts". I mean even if there are BETTER alternatives out there, there's probably nothing as satisfying as knowing you have actually destroyed a man's life. Literally. It sounds so animalistic and brutal to me... but I guess these executions have some purpose afterall! ^_^

We all love it when our favorite wrestler beats down on our least favorite wrestler. Maybe this is no different... ^_^

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

Perdix
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-23 11:32:40 Reply

At 3/23/01 12:20 AM, P-Chan wrote:
At 3/22/01 12:53 PM, Perdix wrote:
At 3/21/01 11:17 PM, P-Chan wrote: When thinking about the death penalty, here's a set of points to think about...

-It doesn't work as an effective deterent
That is irrelevant. You should not use the death penalty, or jail sentences with the intent to deter other people from commiting crimes. When you use them as deterrents you are no longer punishing them for their crimes, but for using them as an example, that should not be done. The fact that there is a punishment of any kind for a given crime should be the only deterrent.
It would be much appreciated if you could elaborate on that point.

Think of this. What is the purpose of an execution/prison sentence? The purpose should be to punish/get someone out of society. And why do we do that? Because they did something that is not allowed by society (note, I am assuming that the laws concerned were just). If your purpose is to keep other people from committing the same crime, then you are no longer punishing that person for what they did, you are punishing them as an example to others. In addition to this, often when people are used as examples, they are given unjust sentences, I don't remember the specifics, but I once heard of a guy who got life in prison for selling marijuana, which is an unheard of punishment for that crime (whether or not that should be illegal is another issue)

-it costs more than life-imprisonment when you take account of the appeals
true

-there is always the risk of killing an innocent person
true, but that is why there is an appeals system.
Appeals cost a helluva lot. And our appeal system isn't perfect.

The appeals system is in effect because our judicial system is not perfect. It is acknowledged that people can be convicted of a crime that they didn't commit, and I am appreciative that there is such a system in place. And the appeal system isn't perfect, and that is why people are allowed multiple appeals. But this brings up a very good argument against execution, that it is simply too damn expensive, due to the appeals process. Another thing to think about though, if it is more expensive to execute someone because of the appeals process, does that mean that someone who receives a life sentence instead of execution for the same crime get less access to the appeals process? Is that fair?


Here's an old quote I used in a previous post, I have no idea if it's still accurate. ^_^

-------------------------------------------------------
PREVIOUS POST

Did you know that 350 people convicted of capital crimes in the USA between 1900 and 1985 were innocent of the crimes charged? Some of these prisoners escaped execution by minutes, but 23 were actually executed.

23 isn't very much? Maybe. But realize that these people are only the ones who were saved....

Study 2: A US Congressional report listed 48 condemned men who had been freed from death row since 1972. The report blamed inadequate legal safeguards to prevent wrongful executions and listed numerous inherent flaws in the criminal justice system. The report concluded: "Judging by past experience, a substantial number of death row inmates are indeed innocent, and there is a high risk that some of them will be executed."
-----------------------------------------------------

This also makes me wonder about the people who recieve life sentences, who are innocent, but still stay in prison for the rest of their lives.

I'm wondering could "revenge" itself be a utility? Could this be feeding some desire in us?

I'm sure it makes people feel good knowing that a so-called "evil person" was killed for his "evil acts". I mean even if there are BETTER alternatives out there, there's probably nothing as satisfying as knowing you have actually destroyed a man's life. Literally. It sounds so animalistic and brutal to me... but I guess these executions have some purpose afterall! ^_^

We all love it when our favorite wrestler beats down on our least favorite wrestler. Maybe this is no different... ^_^

Yeah, people suck.

Mr-Akuji
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-23 11:45:04 Reply

At 3/22/01 09:17 AM, super_ape wrote: You want a slow, torturous death for McVeigh? Why not give him cancer?

Ha!! They should shove a spike covered dildo up his ass!!!

Should Timothy McVeigh Die?

MysteryClock
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-23 12:47:51 Reply

At 3/23/01 11:45 AM, Mr_Akuji wrote:
At 3/22/01 09:17 AM, super_ape wrote: You want a slow, torturous death for McVeigh? Why not give him cancer?
Ha!! They should shove a spike covered dildo up his ass!!!

covered with HIV!

WadeFulp
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Response to Should Timothy McVeigh Die? 2001-03-23 14:08:55 Reply

At 3/21/01 10:50 PM, P-Chan wrote: Wade, why do issues like this spark so much emotion in you? Geez... don't answer that..

So what should we do with these people? I dont' want to live in some wuss society that allows people to kill other people and just say "Oh, I forgive him! Or let's lock him up with some free TV and food." I know bums on the street that have it worse than prisoners in jail! We are to easy on criminals. The guy blew up a fucking building full of people for crying out loud! Mothers and fathers! So you think we shouldn't fry that son of a bitch? Are you on crack? If we don't enforce the laws, than people won't have anything to fear about comitting crimes. You call it revenge, I call it justice. You think someone should be able to go around killing people, and not be punished? That's insane.


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