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I'm glad to see Michael Barrett was signed by the Blue Jays, albeit a minor league contract. As long as he doesn't have some long side effects from when he foul-tipped that ball off his face and shattered it all up, I think he should be the man to get the job to back up Rod Barajas. I really hope so, too. You hate to see one of your favorite players have a season derailed by injuries like his was last year.

So Pat Burrell finally found a club, the Rays. He signed with them for a 2 year/$16 million mark. I have a feeling that he wanted a lot more than that originally, but settled for that after being in limbo forever. The sad part is I bet the Phils would've re-signed him for a similar deal had he not held out for so long.

It'll be odd to see him in another uniform, but atleast he has a ring. I checked the Phils tentative 2009 schedule and whaddya know, the Rays come to town for the last 2 spring training games which are at CBP. I bet all the seats in Left field will go like hot-cakes for those two games.

At 1/5/09 06:03 PM, phileeguy wrote: So Pat Burrell finally found a club, the Rays. He signed with them for a 2 year/$16 million mark. I have a feeling that he wanted a lot more than that originally, but settled for that after being in limbo forever. The sad part is I bet the Phils would've re-signed him for a similar deal had he not held out for so long.

Well, maybe he felt that his place was destined to be at another club. Ironic that he's moved to the Rays, who may have benefited quite a lot from his veteran presence in the World Series against you :P

It'll be odd to see him in another uniform, but atleast he has a ring. I checked the Phils tentative 2009 schedule and whaddya know, the Rays come to town for the last 2 spring training games which are at CBP. I bet all the seats in Left field will go like hot-cakes for those two games.

Yeah, those will be some interesting games to watch.

Well Duke, I know that you'll talk about it anyways, so I might as well lead into it so you don't have to. What do you think about the Red Sox possibly picking up Rocco Baldelli and John Smoltz? Win or lose situation there?

At 1/8/09 03:08 AM, Gooch wrote: What do you think about the Red Sox possibly picking up Rocco Baldelli and John Smoltz? Win or lose situation there?

I think those situations are both wins for the Sox - Smoltz is nearing retirement, so will be relatively cheap. $10m for a season that starts in June for him works out better than stars like Roger Clemens and Bartolo Colon. Boston's pitching depth means that there in no desperate urgency from them to get him into the games, but that could change.

Baldelli has the potential to be a good player for the club, with some decent numbers that have only been curtailed by injuries. He's a local lad and will probably be proud to play for the Sox and will be as good as he was for the Rays.

At 1/8/09 03:21 AM, Coop83 wrote:

At 1/8/09 03:08 AM, Gooch wrote: What do you think about the Red Sox possibly picking up Rocco Baldelli and John Smoltz? Win or lose situation there?

I think those situations are both wins for the Sox - Smoltz is nearing retirement, so will be relatively cheap. $10m for a season that starts in June for him works out better than stars like Roger Clemens and Bartolo Colon. Boston's pitching depth means that there in no desperate urgency from them to get him into the games, but that could change.

I guess he could be the setup man for Papelbon. He could be in a rotation there with Okajima and Delcarmen maybe. I don't think you have to have him be a starter on the Red Sox, but that just depends on how Smoltz is feeling. If he feels that he's still more than capable of being a starting pitcher, then you can't help but give the guy a shot at the rotation.

Baldelli has the potential to be a good player for the club, with some decent numbers that have only been curtailed by injuries. He's a local lad and will probably be proud to play for the Sox and will be as good as he was for the Rays.

He was pretty decent for the Rays before that one mysterious illness (I forgot what the name of it was) sidetracked him. You give him a good chance to play everyday, and I say he has the potential to put up around twenty homeruns and about 75-80 RBIs. He also has some decent speed, so he could give you about fifteen-to-twenty stolen bases too.

John Smolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
Finally a nice pick up. We will need a strong rotation since we do not have the insane firepower to match the Yankees.

At 1/8/09 08:37 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: John Smolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
Finally a nice pick up. We will need a strong rotation since we do not have the insane firepower to match the Yankees.

What job will he do? Setup or rotation? He's got at least 2 months on the sidelines, before he can dress up as a Red Sock.

Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice (FINALLY!!!) are headed to the Hall of Fame. Henderson made it his first time on the ballot, while Rice made it in his final try.

Congrats to both of them.

At 1/12/09 02:45 PM, pepeatumi wrote: Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice (FINALLY!!!) are headed to the Hall of Fame. Henderson made it his first time on the ballot, while Rice made it in his final try.

Congrats to both of them.

And to wait for Henderson's upcoming comeback...

RICKEY HENDERSON, PICK UP....PICK UP THE PHONE RICKEY! IT'S ME....YOU!

Won't be long before he does just that, Palmer tried it once before but it didn't work out

Maybe this one will be different, pass Paige maybe?

At 1/12/09 02:45 PM, pepeatumi wrote: Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice (FINALLY!!!) are headed to the Hall of Fame. Henderson made it his first time on the ballot, while Rice made it in his final try.

What made me smile was how Jim Rice's career numbers have soared since he actually retired, allowing him to put them up there into the mix that qualified him for the Hall of fame in the majority of the BBWAA voters minds :P

Fuckwits - the dude retired 20 years ago. Now he's been retired for so long, has he actually gotten any better? No. So why take so long to elect him?

Also, what's with this bullshit about people not voting a guy as hall of fame just to stop him from being voted in unanimously? I know that even greats like Babe Ruth didn't get unanimous, but does that stop you voting for Rickey Henderson? Apparently so.

At 1/12/09 09:41 PM, Buddhist wrote: RICKEY HENDERSON, PICK UP....PICK UP THE PHONE RICKEY! IT'S ME....YOU!

Man, that motherfucker's never at home.

I just found my favorite fan moment of the offseason so far. A fan finds Barry Zito in a car with four lovely ladies and starts bothering him, only to have Zito deny that he's actually Barry Zito.

I would think that Barry would want someone nice to talk to given that he sucks these days. Then again, when you recently made $126 million, who needs friends? Especially when you have all those beautiful women.

At 1/13/09 07:58 PM, Buddhist wrote: I just found my favorite fan moment of the offseason so far. A fan finds Barry Zito in a car with four lovely ladies and starts bothering him, only to have Zito deny that he's actually Barry Zito.

That sly bastard wouldn't tell us what was going on, either. I really wanted to hear his opinion on whether or not Manny was going back to the Dodgers.

I would think that Barry would want someone nice to talk to given that he sucks these days. Then again, when you recently made $126 million, who needs friends? Especially when you have all those beautiful women.

The difference is that he has to pay them now, rather than the other way around when he was an Ace for the A's

Cole Hamels just got paid. After winning the WS and being named MVP of both the NLCS and Championship rounds and being paid a meager $500k for his work this past year, he signed a 3 year $20.5 million deal with the Phillies. As far as deals go, I think this is pretty equitable for both sides. The average amount of around $6.83 mil per year (although its structured with bigger amounts in the latter 2 years) seems decent enough for a player his age and skill level. As long as Cole stays healthy and dominant, I'm sure after 1 1/2 or 2 years or so the Phils may decide to restructure his contract and give him a little more in terms of years and dollar amount.

I also look at this deal as being good from the Phillies side. If Cole is oft injured in the next couple of years (*knock on wood* he doesn't) the Phils aren't tied into a long-term contract. Also, the Phils didn't go overboard in $, but instead put incentives into the deal if Cole finishes atop, or near the top of CY young voting. Plus, this means one less player that goes to arbitration, which I have a feeling the Phils would've lost.

I was glad to see Ruben get deals done for all our arb-ellis, except of course for RyHow. I just hope they don't cave and give him a 5+ year deal because I want Ruben on the same degree of caution that he takes with pitchers, because in three years Ryan's average could very likely be Sexson-ish below the Mendoza line. He's the Adam Dunn of 1st basemen. I love him as a player, but statistically and for the future of the team I don't want to see anything idiotic occur just because Biggie wants $18 million this year.

Also, I'm happy that Ryan Madson isn't a cocksucker like his agent is. Boras wanted him to hold out for a one-year deal so he could fetch more money on the market, and Madson decided to take the three years and $12 million the Phils offered him. Madson will make $3 million in 2009 (including a $1 million signing bonus), $4.5 million in 2010 and $4.5 million in 2011. "If (free agency) is going to be, it'll happen when the time is right," Madson said. "I don't see how anybody can be underpaid at $4.5 million, but if I'm underpaid, then being underpaid isn't a bad thing."

& phileeguy, tell me. What do you think of the minor deals they made so far? You think that any of the Minor League deals they brokered are gonna pay off? Gary Majewski, Pablo Ozuna, Marcus Giles? Thoughts on the potential of Nomar in a Phils uni? Apparently they've looked into him, Moises Alou, Rich Aurilia, Kevin Millar and Mark Grudzielanek. Not a bad crop to choose from, but personally I'd take Alou over Nomar, health permitting.

In other news, Le Tigres found their closer, signing outsted D'Backs closer Brandon Lyon for one year and $4.25 mil. Hey, it's an upgrade over Zoom and Rodney. The issue is that Lyon had a 2.43 ERA before the All-Star break and an 8.46 ERA after, ballooning with a 12.27 ERA in August.

Oh, and the Mets apparently found their rotation savior, in the form of Freddy Garcia. And they signed Alex Cora, presumably to back up Reyes & probably Castillo.

At 1/24/09 03:35 PM, Buddhist wrote: I was glad to see Ruben get deals done for all our arb-ellis, except of course for RyHow.

Too many contractions! Must. avert. eyes!

I just hope they don't cave and give him a 5+ year deal because I want Ruben on the same degree of caution that he takes with pitchers, because in three years Ryan's average could very likely be Sexson-ish below the Mendoza line. He's the Adam Dunn of 1st basemen. I love him as a player, but statistically and for the future of the team I don't want to see anything idiotic occur just because Biggie wants $18 million this year.

Agreed, I would like to see them sign him for a deal, but nothing long term. But since they have him 'til 2011 in terms of arbitration I wouldn't want them to sign him until next year or 2011. Perhaps they'll find some happy middle ground. I just hope he isn't asking for too much by then. He's not worth Pujols/A-Rod cash, not with all his errors and strikeouts. As for this year, I can see the arbiters going either way at $14 or $18 mil, but If I were to guess, I'd guess the former rather than the latter. I don't see how having more errors this year than last, along with a lower offensive statistics in most categories and no MVP warrants basically doubling his salary.

Also, I'm happy that Ryan Madson isn't a cocksucker like his agent is. Boras wanted him to hold out for a one-year deal so he could fetch more money on the market, and Madson decided to take the three years and $12 million the Phils offered him. Madson will make $3 million in 2009 (including a $1 million signing bonus), $4.5 million in 2010 and $4.5 million in 2011. "If (free agency) is going to be, it'll happen when the time is right," Madson said. "I don't see how anybody can be underpaid at $4.5 million, but if I'm underpaid, then being underpaid isn't a bad thing."

When I heard that Madson was holding out on a 3 year/$12 mil deal I thought he was out of his mind, but then I heard his agent was Scott Boras. I'm glad he's sticking around and I honestly think that was a pretty decent deal for him. They're going to need him to be the 8th inning guy even moreso this year what with the whole Romero situation now.

& phileeguy, tell me. What do you think of the minor deals they made so far?

I think Amaro Jr. has done fairly well. He didn't make any splashes and has addressed issues that he deemed necessary, which just so happens to be what most fans/sports reporters believed to be what the team needed as well. Of course you know what they say about GMs that listen to and do what the fans want too often. Time will tell.

You think that any of the Minor League deals they brokered are gonna pay off? Gary Majewski, Pablo Ozuna, Marcus Giles?

Another bullpen arm in Majewski can't hurt, even though they'll probably have plenty of available after they find out who is the 5th starter from Kendrick/Carrasco/J. A. Happ/Park. As for Ozuna and Giles, they seemed like practical approaches due to Utley's rehab. I can't see Ozuna playing any innings, barring some freak set of circumstances. Giles will most likely play some of the first month, unless Chase's recovery is super fast. He's an upgrade over Bruntlett offensively, but defensively as well most likely as he's a natural 2B, whereas Bruntlett is more of a utility player. It'll be odd not seeing him in a Braves uni.

Thoughts on the potential of Nomar in a Phils uni?

Ain't happenin'. I'd be surprised if they landed him, even though they could use his right-handed bat. But yeah they're saying that they're looking into him, but they also said that about Soriano and others, remember? Phils M.O. is usually to "look into" more experienced, more expensive players, but rarely do they end up signing them.

Apparently they've looked into him, Moises Alou,

The aging Mr. Pee-hands? No thanks. Maybe it's his age gnawing at me, or the fact that he just played for the Mets, but I'll pass.

Rich Aurilia,

I could take or leave him.

Kevin Millar

His average has been down lately, but who knows, maybe he's due for a good year.

and Mark Grudzielanek.

Of all the players you listed, I personally like Mark the best as a dark-horse if the Phils were to sign anyone. He'd no doubt be cheaper than Alou/Garciaparra and he's a relatively consistent player.

Not a bad crop to choose from

Not at all.

In other news, Le Tigres found their closer, signing outsted D'Backs closer Brandon Lyon for one year and $4.25 mil. Hey, it's an upgrade over Zoom and Rodney. The issue is that Lyon had a 2.43 ERA before the All-Star break and an 8.46 ERA after, ballooning with a 12.27 ERA in August.

He had a tough last season. The D-Backs lost the division last year by 2 games, and one they lost to the Dodgers was a game where he gave up 5 runs and Arizona lost by 1. If that didn't happen they would've had tie records and would've went to a 1 game playoff. Then again, If the D-Backs did make the playoffs I have a feeling the Cubs would've beaten them, and possibly subsequently beat the Phils, but of course this is all conjecture. Lyon could do well with a change of scenery, a la Brad Lidge.

Oh, and the Mets apparently found their rotation savior, in the form of Freddy Garcia.

Garcia... Highway Robbery! Of course, the Phils didn't even bother to look into his health for themselves, so it's really on them.

I like Grudzie a lot. He's not gonna be an RBI machine, a power hitter or a big-time runner, but he's a pretty slick fielder and he always hits for a solid average. If Utley's gonna be out past opening day, I'd argue that he's the man I want playing 2nd and batting either 2nd or 7th spot, ahead of Feliz & Ruiz.

And personally I'm pulling for Carrasco to take the 5th spot, but my main concern is that he's not yet ready for a full-season grind, so I'd be fine with Happ or Kendrick, erratic as they may be. I don't even want to think about Chan Ho Park in the rotation. yes, he was good out of the bullpen and in long relief for the Dodgers last year, but he hasn't been good in a rotation since 2001. Eight years without a solid record in the rotation is not something that's worth betting against. If we wanted to do that, we still have Adam Eaton.

I think the last major thing other than Howard's arbitration that Ruben needs to address is the Matt Stairs/Geoff Jenkins issue. Personally I'd rather see Geoff go, because I know Stairs can still perform amiably as a fill-in/pinch hitter, and he doesn't strike out nearly as much as Geoff does. Either way, somethin's gotta give.

The Yanks signed Andy Pettite to one year deal (Worth 5.5 Million).

Meawhile, the Boston Red Sox have offered Jason Varitek a one year deal worth 5 million, and they've given him until Saturday to take the deal. Otherwise, the Sox will probably pursue a trade, because I can't see them going into the season with Josh Bard as their catcher.

At 1/27/09 02:02 PM, Buddhist wrote: I like Grudzie a lot. He's not gonna be an RBI machine, a power hitter or a big-time runner, but he's a pretty slick fielder and he always hits for a solid average. If Utley's gonna be out past opening day, I'd argue that he's the man I want playing 2nd and batting either 2nd or 7th spot, ahead of Feliz & Ruiz.

If, and this is a BIG "if," Feliz and or Ruiz have better offensive start this year than they had last year, I'd suggest putting one of them behind Howard, with Victorino following them, then Grudz, and then the remainder of Feliz/Ruiz in the 8 spot. That would give a good variation in lefty/righty/switch throughout the lineup with some good guys w/ average near the end as well.

And personally I'm pulling for Carrasco to take the 5th spot, but my main concern is that he's not yet ready for a full-season grind, so I'd be fine with Happ or Kendrick, erratic as they may be.

I would like to see what Carrasco can do as well, but I think he's going to be a mid-season call-up. As for the actual 5th spot starter, I'd guess it's going to be Happ. He performed extremely well last year towards the end, especially in tough games. Kendrick will have to have a hell of a spring training to reclaim his position.

I don't even want to think about Chan Ho Park in the rotation. yes, he was good out of the bullpen and in long relief for the Dodgers last year, but he hasn't been good in a rotation since 2001. Eight years without a solid record in the rotation is not something that's worth betting against. If we wanted to do that, we still have Adam Eaton.

We still do have Adam Eaton.

I think the last major thing other than Howard's arbitration that Ruben needs to address is the Matt Stairs/Geoff Jenkins issue. Personally I'd rather see Geoff go, because I know Stairs can still perform amiably as a fill-in/pinch hitter, and he doesn't strike out nearly as much as Geoff does. Either way, somethin's gotta give.

Stairs is a quality PH, but keeping him over Jenkins plays with outfield depth. As it is now the starters are Ibanez/Victornio/Werth with Jenkins/Stairs/Bruntlett in reserve. I'd prefer Jenkins over Stairs/Bruntlett to fill in for days off and pitching matchups for the starters.

At 1/27/09 02:57 PM, pepeatumi wrote: The Yanks signed Andy Pettite to one year deal (Worth 5.5 Million).

Amazing how people who admit to using steroids can continue to get deals and further their potential HOF careers, whereas those who are accused of (and still technically innocent until proven guilty) are being held away at arm's length like a dirty sneezing kid who doesn't cover his mouth. Just goes to show you that we're a forgiving society... as long as you have some sort of skill we covet.

Meawhile, the Boston Red Sox have offered Jason Varitek a one year deal worth 5 million, and they've given him until Saturday to take the deal. Otherwise, the Sox will probably pursue a trade, because I can't see them going into the season with Josh Bard as their catcher.

If I were him, I'd take the deal. No doubt age is catching up with him and it's showing in his performance over the past couple of years. You'd think that he'd want to stay on a contender, and the Red Sox are that, perennially.

At 1/27/09 05:32 PM, phileeguy wrote:

At 1/27/09 02:57 PM, pepeatumi wrote: The Yanks signed Andy Pettite to one year deal (Worth 5.5 Million).

Amazing how people who admit to using steroids can continue to get deals and further their potential HOF careers, whereas those who are accused of (and still technically innocent until proven guilty) are being held away at arm's length like a dirty sneezing kid who doesn't cover his mouth. Just goes to show you that we're a forgiving society... as long as you have some sort of skill we covet.

An interesting point - would we have forgiven Barry Bonds if he'd have admitted to HGH before hitting 73 or before he passed Hank Aaron? Then of course you've got Mark McGwire and his (so far) ill-fated quest to gain election to the hall of fame.

On a side note, the Yanks have mission accomplished with the reduced payroll for the '09 season. Sure, we've signed CC, AJ and Tex, but we've cut down on some salary along the way, losing Giambi, Abreu, Pavano, Moose and I-Rod. That's about $80m. Our three star free agents will make approximately $50.5m

Factor in Pettite's $5m and we're still about $25m under last year's wages, before you take into account wage rises factored into contracts, which isn't $25m.

If the Yanks can get younger by shipping out Swisher to someone willing to take on his payroll, we'll save even more and hopefully get some decent prospects back.

While not completely satisfying, things are certainly looking up in the Bronx.

At 1/28/09 08:35 AM, Coop83 wrote: An interesting point - would we have forgiven Barry Bonds if he'd have admitted to HGH before hitting 73 or before he passed Hank Aaron?

They wouldn't have. The media is the one that controls most of the HOF voting and most of what creates opinions about players, and Barry has always hated the media, thus the media has always had it out for Barry. If Barry wasn't such a dick all the time (to teammates, to coaches, to the media), he wouldn't have been the poster-boy for steroids, and McGwire or Clemens would be. However, Barry is pretty much the biggest ass of all the hitters in the ring for steroids, so he takes the cake, which is unfortunate for him because they are just going to keep digging up more and more bad shit about him, just like with Clemens, and just like with McGwire.

Cant wait till the season starts =X
Although I still wish the Sox coulda picked up Texeira

At 1/28/09 01:18 PM, Buddhist wrote:

At 1/28/09 08:35 AM, Coop83 wrote: An interesting point - would we have forgiven Barry Bonds if he'd have admitted to HGH before hitting 73 or before he passed Hank Aaron?

They wouldn't have...

Agreed. But aside from the other points you made about beign a dick to the media which I omitted to shorten the reply, I think we wouldn't fully forgive him due to the fact that he now holds 2 of the biggest records in all of Baseball. Whether or not he admitted to it before or after he hit 73 and 756 respectively, we wouldv'e known it was a tainted record, and we'd be playing games like "When was he juiced and when wasn't he?" And "What is a more realistic possible legit number of dingers can we think of to credit him with by deducing when he was and wasn't on, and what were and weren't due to Steroids/HGH?"

At 1/28/09 08:35 AM, Coop83 wrote

Then of course you've got Mark McGwire and his (so far) ill-fated quest to gain election to the hall of fame.

It'll never happen. I doubt if even the veterans committee lets him in.

On a side note, the Yanks have mission accomplished with the reduced payroll for the '09 season. Sure, we've signed CC, AJ and Tex, but we've cut down on some salary along the way, losing Giambi, Abreu, Pavano, Moose and I-Rod. That's about $80m. Our three star free agents will make approximately $50.5m

Thats a lot of talent that people are going to have to mull over. Aside from the retiring Mussina you've got 3 quality - if not older/grizzled - veterans. Clearly I'm not counting Pavano here, btw. I wonder how long it'll be before theyre picked up what with teams taking another look at their finances in this economic downturn.

While not completely satisfying, things are certainly looking up in the Bronx.

A new stadium (which may or may not open on time), big name free agents, dumping Pavano... yep, looks pretty good.

P.S. LOST is coming on biatches! Let's see what crazy antics James Sawyer, John Locke, Sayid Jarrah, Jack Sheppard M.D., Hugo Reyes and the rest get into tonight!

At 1/28/09 01:18 PM, Buddhist wrote:

At 1/28/09 08:35 AM, Coop83 wrote: An interesting point - would we have forgiven Barry Bonds if he'd have admitted to HGH before hitting 73 or before he passed Hank Aaron?

They wouldn't have.

I know I certainly wouldn't have, as the man has very little regard for any other human being, as far as I could see.

At 1/28/09 08:53 PM, phileeguy wrote: At 1/28/09 08:35 AM, Coop83 wrote

Then of course you've got Mark McGwire and his (so far) ill-fated quest to gain election to the hall of fame.

It'll never happen. I doubt if even the veterans committee lets him in.

The sad thing is that I used to respect him, when he went out after 70.

On a side note, the Yanks have mission accomplished with the reduced payroll for the '09 season. Sure, we've signed CC, AJ and Tex, but we've cut down on some salary along the way, losing Giambi, Abreu, Pavano, Moose and I-Rod. That's about $80m. Our three star free agents will make approximately $50.5m

Thats a lot of talent that people are going to have to mull over. Aside from the retiring Mussina you've got 3 quality - if not older/grizzled - veterans. Clearly I'm not counting Pavano here, btw. I wonder how long it'll be before theyre picked up what with teams taking another look at their finances in this economic downturn.

Giambi fits in nicely again with the As. I can't see that problem, as we've replaced him with Teixiera. Abreu I probably will miss, as he has been a fine example of a quality player for the Yanks. I-Rod was just a stop-gap for us, while Posada was sidelined. If we miss anyone, I think we'll miss Wilson Betemit more, because I didn't understand that trade if we were going to bring in Swisher, for a guy who we tried so hard to acquire then find that Swisher is surplus to requirements, so try to ship him off, because he's a liability.

The talk about getting rid of Nady hasn't pleased me, as I think he can be a great RF for us. Personally, I'd ditch Swish and streamline in time for Spring.

While not completely satisfying, things are certainly looking up in the Bronx.

A new stadium (which may or may not open on time), big name free agents, dumping Pavano... yep, looks pretty good.

Well, if we could have gotten a good deal (sub-$4m, maybe a few IP incentives), he would have had a chance to buy his way into the hearts of the Yankee faithful. He now gets this chance in Cleveland, so go figure.

Bad news for Bonds.

The heat is being turned up on Barry Bonds as his perjury trial approaches.

Citing a person who has reviewed the evidence in the case, The New York Times reported on Wednesday that authorities detected anabolic steroids in urine samples linked to Bonds that they gathered in their investigation.

Bonds testified to a federal grand jury in 2003 that he used the "cream" and the "clear" but did not know that they were performance-enhancing drugs. The urine samples could prove the existence of other steroids in his body.

During that testimony, Bonds was asked if he ever took steroids, and he answered no. The government alleges that Bonds lied under oath. His perjury trial is scheduled to begin March 2.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story ?id=3867536

At 1/28/09 08:53 PM, phileeguy wrote: Agreed. But aside from the other points you made about beign a dick to the media which I omitted to shorten the reply, I think we wouldn't fully forgive him due to the fact that he now holds 2 of the biggest records in all of Baseball.

Personally, I don't give a shit. Everyone that's held those records has had some unfair advantage over the competition, so I find it silly that we single out Bonds because he took steroids. Nobody gave a shit when we were bringing in the OF fences for the Babe (short porch? it was even shorter back in the day) or letting the players snort coke and take greenies and shit to amp them up and get them to hit it harder and farther, etc.

If we're going to play like that, then Maris holds the single-season record and the HR king title should be given to someone who never had an unfair advantage, like Griffey. As far as we know (and it should be justly assumed), Griffey never took steroids or greenies and never really hit in a ballpark with super-short fences or anything. Bonds used steroids, Aaron used amphetamines, Ruth had fences shorted a lot just for him, Mays used amphetamines. Hell, if we're using this argument, then Griffey and Harmon Killebrew are the only 2 in the top 10 that never actually had any performance enhancement of any type to aid them.

The fact is that cheating in baseball has always been a part of the game, for long over a century. From Ty Cobb to Jason Giambi, from John McGraw to John Rocker, from the 1919 Black Sox to the 1951 Giants, from Gaylord Perry to Kenny Rogers. Signal-stealing, sharpening cleats, poppin' greenies, shootin' steroids in asses, gettin' all Clean and Clear, ball-doctoring, spitballin', pine-tarrin', bat-corking, betting on games, refrigerating baseballs, the neighborhood double play, fixing games...it's all a part of the game, because cheating is baseball. Without cheating, baseball just simply wouldn't be baseball, and it wouldn't be as invigorating, exciting, and conversation-inducing as it is and has been for a long time.

That, and the fact that nobody gives a shit about pitchers cheating, just hitters, and only if you use steroids because George Bush decided to investigate steroids in baseball as though it was some new national crisis. That's what really bothers me, is the double standard we hold. We're going to end up probably not letting Bonds into the hall of fame, we didn't let Joe Jackson into the hall, and we haven't let Pete Rose into the hall, but we'll let Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford and Fergie Jenkins in there, no problem.

At 1/29/09 10:49 AM, pepeatumi wrote: Bad news for Bonds.

Meh, he'll get what's coming to him (I sincerely hope)

At 1/29/09 11:18 AM, Buddhist wrote: That, and the fact that nobody gives a shit about pitchers cheating, just hitters, and only if you use steroids because George Bush decided to investigate steroids in baseball as though it was some new national crisis. That's what really bothers me, is the double standard we hold. We're going to end up probably not letting Bonds into the hall of fame, we didn't let Joe Jackson into the hall, and we haven't let Pete Rose into the hall, but we'll let Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford and Fergie Jenkins in there, no problem.

Wow, looks like we touched a nerve here. I think that Pete Rose should be allowed in the hall of fame, but that is because of how great a player he was. His gambling problem was something that should have been rooted out and he should have been helped by the authorities, rather than shunned.

Nowadays, I think he could have been helped and I think that this whole steroids issue is something that the commissioner's office wants to see out of the game and they want to help professionals with problems - both with steroid and recreational drug problems. Granted, I don't think the punishments are harsh enough as yet - nowhere near other professional sports, but at least they are getting there.

Sure, cheating is a part of the game - the home team will get the call most of the time when it's marginal, but that sort of 'grey area' of the rules is something that is taken with a pinch of salt - if everyone gets it - no problem, no harm done.

With steroids, people get caught out and made examples of - they aren't the big superstars being brought down. The Bonds case might just make players think twice before they do something stupid.

No-one is above the law.

Not really touching a nerve, I just detest double standards, especially when they're grossly overpublicized, such as in baseball.

All I'm saying is that if you're gonna fuck all the hitters over, you damn well better do it to all the pitchers implicated as well.