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At 7/13/04 02:55 PM, 1Shot-Paddy wrote: Irish people never commited an act of terrorism when we were fighting Britain.

*cough* what??

At 7/13/04 05:06 PM, JackOfShadow wrote: Israelis aren't fed with anti palestinian propoganda like the palestinians are..

Building the wall around 1967's borders!? You must be a brain dead fucktard! I'll fucking go burns an arab village before I agrre to that...

Gee. Sounds like you really value "arab" lives a lot. There can't be an 'anti-palestinian' bias at all in your education system or society at all, huh?

I too agree with Grenade_Clocks post. Some compromise is gonna have to be worked out or the problems remain un solved!

the place in which they plan to build the wall is an elevated position from which any opposing nation could fire upon and not get fired back upon i think Isreal is just watching there ass and what the hell is wrong with that???

At 7/14/04 10:35 AM, JackOfShadow wrote:

At 7/14/04 09:53 AM, D2KVirus wrote: stuff

If they tear the wall down the things won't grow any better. As long as there are jews on this land and palestinians are leb by the same leaders there will be no peace. I'm not a subject to anti palestinian propaganda any more than you, don't you think that given the chance the palestinians will try destroying a few jewish cities? Once again I ask you to find out what happened in 1921 and 1929 in Palestine. Of course if the wall is tore down there will still be enough other obstacles in the way of terrorist but they will be less affective without the wall. I personaly am sick and tired of hearing about all the soldiers that die trying to keep terrorists away from our cities.

you need to realize that the fuckin palestinians have had all of their rule, land, and power stolen by the US officials who let the jew people move there after WW2. THEY ARE PISSED. and wouldn't you be also if someone from and bigger country took you from your home and when you asked what to do they told you to figure it out. You need to turn off fox my man. the conservative poppy cock is more worthless than a chinese dollar bill.

At 7/14/04 11:19 PM, TheHedonist wrote:

Gee. Sounds like you really value "arab" lives a lot. There can't be an 'anti-palestinian' bias at all in your education system or society at all, huh?

I value the lives of my fellow citizens more. Don't you? If you could either save 500 americans or 500 brazilians, what would you choose?
I never said there can't be any anti palestinian bias in the society, aren't there any anti iraqi bais in yours? That's what happens when people attack your home, you grow to hate them. Do you like/respect/any other positive feeling the ones who destroy the World Trade Center? However the school system tries to avoid teaching kids how to be hateful. We will never get out of this mess if we start teaching children that hatred and voilence is the only way.

At 7/14/04 11:34 PM, St3ppininyoarea wrote:

you need to realize that the fuckin palestinians have had all of their rule, land, and power stolen by the US officials who let the jew people move there after WW2. THEY ARE PISSED. and wouldn't you be also if someone from and bigger country took you from your home and when you asked what to do they told you to figure it out. You need to turn off fox my man. the conservative poppy cock is more worthless than a chinese dollar bill.

Then how do you explain 1921, 1929 and 1931-1936? Will somaone finaly look up what happened back then, I'm tired of telling people to look it up and I don't want to post so much history. Back then the land was not taken away from arabs and yet there was a lot of violence towards jews. This fight goes way back before WWII. I do not watch Fox, I hate that channel.

At 7/14/04 11:19 PM, JackOfShadow wrote:

Then how do you explain 1921, 1929 and 1931-1936? Will somaone finaly look up what happened back then, I'm tired of telling people to look it up and I don't want to post so much history. Back then the land was not taken away from arabs and yet there was a lot of violence towards jews. This fight goes way back before WWII. I do not watch Fox, I hate that channel.

Yep you are right there. The arabs sold their lands to jewish people, and then they had the nerve to accuse us in property stealing. The people here should really learn history.

At 7/15/04 02:56 AM, JackOfShadow wrote: I value the lives of my fellow citizens more. Don't you? If you could either save 500 americans or 500 brazilians, what would you choose?

That's a stupid question. I wouldn't make a decision. I don't hold Americans in higher regard than Brazilians. Why should I? Simply because of where they were born? That's completely ignorant.

I never said there can't be any anti palestinian bias in the society, aren't there any anti iraqi bais in yours?

No, the US is just as anti-Palestinian / anti-Muslim as Israel is, I'm assuming.

Do you like/respect/any other positive feeling the ones who destroy the World Trade Center?

No, I don't make vast generalizations about Saudi's. I don't dislike them any more than an American or a Canadian.

At 7/15/04 03:20 AM, TheHedonist wrote:

Do you like/respect/any other positive feeling the ones who destroy the World Trade Center?

No, I don't make vast generalizations about Saudi's. I don't dislike them any more than an American or a Canadian.

I don't mean the whole people, only those who are responsible for that terror act. I don't think you like them. Why should I like the people that blow up busses in my country. Before you say that not all palestinians are terrorists, think about it. The majority is and that's exactly whom I hate.

At 7/10/04 07:31 PM, MikeFulp wrote: I saw the raw video on Reuters. The World Court can say whatever they want to say, but the truth is, they don't have the power to enforce their ruling, so this is useless. In fact, Israel might make the wall longer to spite the International Court's. We're talking about a country that has disobeyed international law for decades, and is not gonna stop now because the ..sigh.. International Court tells it to stop.

The international court could only advise against.When the court has advised It can only be "forced" upon israel if the UN makes a resolution. This would be no problem but America always uses it veto in cases like this for israel.

At 7/15/04 05:45 AM, Rob_G wrote:

The international court could only advise against.When the court has advised It can only be "forced" upon israel if the UN makes a resolution. This would be no problem but America always uses it veto in cases like this for israel.

Well it's good that at least someone stick up for us. I know you don't like the idea of the US helping Israel but look at it this way. Israel is the only democracy in the region and it's more than willing to cooperate with the western world. Unless the western world protects it Israle will be destroyed and democracy will be the one screwed.

At 7/14/04 10:35 AM, JackOfShadow wrote:
Well I am baised, but who isn't. I try staying objective and when I'm saying that it's about time we started being offensive it's not my blood lust talking, I mean that if we keep on staying defensive one day palestinians will get through our defense. A perfect defense doesn't exist.

Can somebody please tell me what is "defensive" about driving tanks into Palestinian settlements, destrying homes and (bizarrely) zoos, and tearing down Arafat's compound from around him?

If that constitutes as defensive, I hate to think what the Israeli counter attack will be. Objective?!?

If you do think that there is another way, please, I'm open for sugestions. How about a little constructive criticism for a change.

Reading a few history books, perchance? After all, in 1948, didn't the Israelis go and massacre any and all Arabs they could find, just to proclaim the territory to be theirs? Don't the same Israelis push the boundries out further and further, into Palestinian territories?

If you're so worried about a few bad eggs crossing into Israel and flooding the streets with Jewish blood, can you tell me if there's a wall built for the very same reason, but to keep the germans back? After all, isn't it Germany's actions between 1933-45 that led to the creation of Israel in the first place? If there is a wall for the Palestinians, there should be a wall for the Germans - by your very thinking and reciting of historical events...that didn't involve israel, as it didn't exist. Hardly a basis for an argument.

You say you are not brought up to hate Palestinians, but I have yet to see any proof of this. You state they will kill you in your beds given half a chance - a very hateful mindset. There is more to hate than saying "I hate X!", as there are mindsets of hate (and fear) that create a victim complex, and the need for walls, barriers, guards, and troops.

You say the Great Wall didn't work - so why are you even alive to talk about this? Obviously, you should be dead now, because that's how you portray Palestinians. Not as a people, but as a virus, a homogeneous mass intent on killing and pillaging "your" land. And attitudes like this further inflame hatred on both sides. To act innocent is a destructive criticism, as if not one Palestinian has suffered wrongs from Israeli hands.

Perhaps the perspective is wrong. Western news always favours the Israelis, given more coverage to one killed in a bombing than ten Palestinians shelled by tanks. Agauin, this can set off a complex that will serve as propeganda to one side, which wil be manipulated as propeganda for the other, and it goes on - and on, and on.

Israelis aren't the victims, Palestinians aren't savages. By using black and white testimony, you show just how dire the situation is, and that's from your side.

At 7/15/04 10:15 AM, D2KVirus wrote:

:After all, isn't it Germany's actions between 1933-45 that led to the creation of Israel in the first place?

NO, read some history.
An idea about a country for jewish was made long before 1933, even before 1900.

At 7/15/04 10:15 AM, D2KVirus wrote:

True stuff.

I see your point now. I agree with your post, but for a few little unimportant points. Still you didn't propose any way out of this whole mess. Saying something lie "You should learn to forgive" or "Learn to live together" isn't really proposing a solution.

At 7/15/04 05:09 AM, JackOfShadow wrote: Before you say that not all palestinians are terrorists, think about it. The majority is and that's exactly whom I hate.

!!! The majority of Palestinians aren't 'terrorists' by any stretch of the word! You're out of your mind!

At 7/15/04 05:09 AM, JackOfShadow wrote: Before you say that not all palestinians are terrorists, think about it. The majority is and that's exactly whom I hate.

Finally! Someone actually says the truth! People need to realize that the majority of Palestinians are terrorists, the majority of Iraqis are terrorists, the majority of fags are junkies and satanists, the majority of negroes are crackheads who will try to steal my VCR, the majority of wetbacks are illegal, job-stealing bastards, and the majority of spics eat dogs.

the majority of palestinians are not terrorists.
while i don't have any research or anything to back this up, the media's portrayal of the palestinian people seems to indicate that a large number of them does support the terrorists. that still doesn't make them terrorists.

but hell, i'd like to take every one of those who ululate in the streets every time a suicide bomber kills some israelis, and skin the bastards alive.

the singular greatest impediment to peace IMO is the position of percieved weakness that israel would occupy if they were to return the occupied territories while terrorist activities were taking place.
clearly they cannot afford to let the terrorists be seen to be forcing them to do so, as that would be something of a propaganda victory for the terrorists.

.

Then how do you explain 1921, 1929 and 1931-1936? Will somaone finaly look up what happened back then, I'm tired of telling people to look it up and I don't want to post so much history. Back then the land was not taken away from arabs and yet there was a lot of violence towards jews. This fight goes way back before WWII. I do not watch Fox, I hate that channel.

it wasn't taken from them???? then who fuckin lived there before the jews them. its fucking holy ground for both religions jackass

At 7/15/04 06:55 PM, Clock-Of-The-Grenade wrote:

At 7/15/04 05:09 AM, JackOfShadow wrote: Before you say that not all palestinians are terrorists, think about it. The majority is and that's exactly whom I hate.

Finally! Someone actually says the truth! People need to realize that the majority of Palestinians are terrorists, the majority of Iraqis are terrorists, the majority of fags are junkies and satanists, the majority of negroes are crackheads who will try to steal my VCR, the majority of wetbacks are illegal, job-stealing bastards, and the majority of spics eat dogs.

i really hope you burn in hell for that fuckin slanderous full of shit thing you just said. you are the most fucking retarded person I have ever met on this site. Please dont respond to this because I can't stand to see another word of shit come from your mind. I cannot call you a flaming jackass enough to stress how fuckin stupid you are. If I knew you I would kick the shit out of you so bad they would have to clean you up with a dust you fucking brainwashed fucking nazi asshole. GO TO HELL

At 7/15/04 11:07 PM, St3ppininyoarea wrote:

it wasn't taken from them???? then who fuckin lived there before the jews them. its fucking holy ground for both religions jackass

Jews bought that land! Arabs sold it! Now if that is taking land away from arabs illegaly, I don't know what's legal.

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean that the majority of palestinians are terrorists, I meant that most of them support terror. Look at what happens each time a palestinian blow up in a crowded street? He is idolized, children are taught to be like him, his parents say that their are proud of him and wish the rest of their kids follow his examle. I personaly hate any parent who is brain dead enough to say something like that and I hate everyone who idolizes a siucedal maniac, that's the pick of human stupidity.

I value the lives of my fellow citizens more. Don't you? If you could either save 500 americans or 500 brazilians, what would you choose?

Honestly, given that I've had a number of highly intelligent conversations with brazilians, and very few from Americans, I'd be hard pressed not to choose the brazilians over the americans just improve the global genepool.

Only the fact that I am american (and a selfish bastard in that I like my life) would i even consider giving an even 50/50 chance to either.

I never said there can't be any anti palestinian bias in the society, aren't there any anti iraqi bais in yours? That's what happens when people attack your home, you grow to hate them.

As long as people continue the cycle of hate, the hurt and pain will only continue to escalate. In the grand scheme of atrocities as of late, however, I'd have to give the prize the the Israelis. (or more specifically, the almost nazi like leader of their country). Sharon is a violent warlord who has more than one occassion said, "The US is in our pocket"

Do you like/respect/any other positive feeling the ones who destroy the World Trade Center?

I never had respect to Bush or his administration before... but I have to respect them for this. They managed to pull off an insanely stupid coup and made people believe the laws of physics could be suspended - and that Iraqi (erm sorry Bushian slip there) I mean Afghani (erm sorry again) Saudi pilots did it.

However the school system tries to avoid teaching kids how to be hateful. We will never get out of this mess if we start teaching children that hatred and voilence is the only way.

Holy crap we almost agree on something. I will say this, OVERTLY the school system does not advocated hate. However, many of the systems and class structures within public school certainly lead to a lot of hate. If you have ever been bullied in school - you know what I mean. The school I went to refused to expel the troublemakers because "they are in need of school because of their troubled backgrounds", yet they would expel a 1st time offender who was not from the troublemaking group

Then how do you explain 1921, 1929 and 1931-1936? Will somaone finaly look up what happened back then, I'm tired of telling people to look it up and I don't want to post so much history. Back then the land was not taken away from arabs and yet there was a lot of violence towards jews. This fight goes way back before WWII. I do not watch Fox, I hate that channel.

The hate there is old and long standing. Without the intervention of wiser individuals, it will continue to fester. But walls never make for better neighbors. Take the wood (or stone) and build a bridge. Or a commonhouse.

BBC: What was the main reason for you deciding to become a suicide bomber? The one reason in particular.

Hussam: The reason was because my friend was killed.
The second reason I did it is because I didn't want to go to school.

[ Full interview with 15-y/o failed-suicide bomber Hussam Abdo ]

-

At 7/16/04 11:06 PM, uncle_skunk wrote:

[ Full interview with 15-y/o failed-suicide bomber Hussam Abdo ]

That link leads to the "post a message" page. Could you please post the link again?

In all honesty, it is really the Israeli's and Palestinian's fight. This has been going on for literally millenia and will not stop since the hatred has its roots in Biblical times. I believe that Israel is best looking out for its interests by building a wall as a means od protecting itself, even if it is in disputed territory, ESPECIALLY in disputed territory. From the Israeli's standpoint, they don't want the tanks marching to their front door.

And you also have to take into account that ever since the creation of Israel, in fact, a mere year after Britain turned the land over and set up Israel and Palestine, the War of Independance broke out, since then, there has been the Suez War which started about a year later, then there was the Six-Day war which was about 11 years later, followed up by the War of Attrition a mere 3 weeks later, and 6 years later the October War started up (Yom Kippur War/ Ramadan War), and then to be followed by the Lebanon War.

In each of these wars, Israel was pitted against mulitple enemies on numerous fronts. And while I am not in any way saying that Israel was not to blame in any of these conflicts, the wars were never directly started by Israel, and you wonder why they want to build a wall? Hell, if it was ME over there, I'd build myself box with a ton of gun emplacements and electrify the whole damned thing.

Of course both sides are really responding to attacks by the other, but who started it? It doesn't really even matter now, the hatred is so deeply rooted. American support for Israel doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things, the truth is, they'll still be killing each other.

To respond to previous criticisms of the Arab tactics ( I really can't believe I'm posting this ): suicide bombers is pretty much all they can muster against Israel's military muscle. If 6 countries attacking Israel at once can't break through, then I don't think a band of rebels weilding 40 year old guns is going to do much either. So they make due with what they can, and if that means sacrificing themselves to fight for something they believe in. I don't agree with that at all, but things are vastly different over there, and I don't have to contemplate living in fear of the next Israeli helicopter gunship raid. Nor do I have to deal with young boys and girls running into the restaurant I'm eating at with a Semtex jacket and Primacord trim. I really think any opinions any of us would have about how they think and act over there would be horribly skewed and misshappen. It's a different world out there.

And personally, it strikes me as odd how all the left wingers tend to bash Isreal and try maintain a "neutral stance" on the whole issue. It seems that a lot of people are doing that with tolerance nowadays as well, go figure.

At 7/17/04 03:36 AM, JackOfShadow wrote: That link leads to the "post a message" page. Could you please post the link again?

Sorry, must of copy+pasted that url inbetween making that post. Here's the interview: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3899015.stm

Jack - for future reference, since I'm not worked up or anything at the moment - I'm not "anti-Israel" or "pro-Palestinian". But I commonly find myself being polarized by some of the Israelis on this board, and by the American media. The US's coverage is entirely from the Israeli viewpoint.

I hold no real bias or position in the conflict - my only interest is finding some type of mediation, some middle road. I usually err on the side of critiquing Israel, because they do hold the upper hand here - and they are the ones, in my mind, who need to make the first concessions.

And watching the news (by the way, why is BBC World news better than the stuff we get at home?), the UN state that the Wall must come down, with 150 countries supporting this motion. Yet five, plus the US say it's fine, which seems to be justification enough? Why?

When the UN and 150 countries all state that this wall is about as humanitarian as shearing sheep with a lawnmower, why are the US (and whoever the other five were, but that's not important) carry more weight?

To solve problems, maybe the 150 nations should've had their cases heard, not dismissed out of hand. Things like this always add up.

The UN really has to become more democratic in my mind. What's the point of any voting for the ~185 other nations, if everything is really in the hands of the top five?

Not even the top five - The One.

Come on, what will America do if the UN fles their muscles and force the Israelis to tear down this barrier, exactly? They can't carpet bomb the HQ, as that's in New York and will, therefore, look stupid, and it isn't as if they can invade each and every nation that votes against them, because a whole continenent and their armies uniting is generally a bit of a bugger to fight against. Especially if that includes the Russian army - as history proves they're the real hard bastards in battle.

Israel should just learn to listen, rather than recite the usual bullshit. If you don't want people trying to kill you, don't give them a strong, valid reason. After all, it isn't as if the world is like Croydon on a Saturday night, all tanked up (if you excuse the expression) and aggro, is it?

The UN has no muscle without America.

At 7/26/04 10:38 AM, Spookshow wrote: The UN has no muscle without America.

Oh, right, I forgot that "fact." Thanks for pointing it out, and making it easy for us all to understand by showing no evidence or thinking, as that really slows things down.

Pillock.