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At 9/17/01 12:27 PM, SK wrote: Lets talk about innocent lives you stupid afgan. Your "people" killed many innocent people in the WTC and Pentagon not to mention other who died when the building fell on them. We will fuck all those afgans there. Hell well be doing them a favor, ending them of there misery. They want to fuck with us, they think they know bad, huh, their a fucking choir boy compared to us, a choir boy!

moron... moron.... somebody needs to learn how to read.... moron.... you are a shame to the American race... moron.... sadly, there are too many Americans like you, not even using the four braincells they've got to come up with brilliant conclusions like the one you derived at. That's where all this shit about attacking the Afghanistanis. if the world was ruled by morons like you we'd all be eradicated since long ago. Moron... moron....

At 9/17/01 11:06 AM, TomFulp wrote: We've heard a lot of different response to recent events - many people want to turn Afghanistan into a parking lot, while others want to shower Osama Bin Laden with love and show him we are not the monsters he thinks we are. I would personally like to see his head on a stick, but before we discuss extremes, lets take a look at someone else's perspective. The following is part of an email thread written by Tamim Ansary, Afghani-American writer. He gives his American friends the perspective through his Afghani eyes:

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do
with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political
criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators.

They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there were 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan - a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering.

Level their houses? Done.

Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.

Eradicate their hospitals? Done.

Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care?

Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing.

Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban - by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in
there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed.

Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people.

Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by?

You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.

That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the West wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West would win, whatever that would
mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?

Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

I'm not sure when this email was written - but Pakistan has since pledged support to the US. I am guessing that would include sending ground troups through Pakistan. I also doubt that we will be turning Afghanistan into a parking lot. Anyone who has been reading up on our current military status may have seen that we have two prototype planes with high powered lasers, capable of destroying a single human target in a crowd from 180 miles away. I'd like to see us use that between Osama's legs. But I'm getting sidetracked...

My main reason for posting this was, what does it make you think? Does it change your view of Afghanistan? Does it change your feelings towards what must be done to end this conflict?

Well, I changed my mind about thinking afganistan was against us o.o;

At 9/17/01 03:31 PM, Neostone wrote: moron... moron.... somebody needs to learn how to read.... moron.... you are a shame to the American race... moron.... sadly, there are too many Americans like you, not even using the four braincells they've got to come up with brilliant conclusions like the one you derived at. That's where all this shit about attacking the Afghanistanis. if the world was ruled by morons like you we'd all be eradicated since long ago. Moron... moron....

Heh, my friend and I made up this thing about that... when talking to dumb people, we'd take our two index fingers and go "Clink, clink", the sound of his only two brain cells clinking together.

It's true that the Taliban have pretty much destroyed Afghanistan's original culture. Women used to have as many rights as North American and Australian women do, but now they aren't welcome in public unless their entire body and almost all of their face is covered. Women can't go to school or get jobs, and if they "dishonour" their families, then the men have something of a duty to kill them.
It's not just women who have it bad either. The Taliban will go after people in the streets, men or women, just because they feel like throwing their weight around.
What might be the worst part is that the Taliban have had control of Afghanistan since 1997 and nobody cared much up until now. Does it take a huge tragedy, the murder of hundreds or even thousands of people, to make us see that you can only turn your back on the true enemies, like the Taliban, for so long? Or was it of less concern because they weren't bothering anyone who mattered . . .

At 9/17/01 11:06 AM, TomFulp wrote:

Bin Laden does. Anyone else?"

Yes, we are flirting with war, and what is really scary is what Nostradamus said about the Islamic prince and about the 42nd parallel (New York). I can't really recall its been years since I've seen "War of the Worlds" (A film on the prophecey of Nostradamus narrated by Orson Wells)

When and if we find the turbaned terrorist we should try, convict, and execute him in a world court though, not our own. I really doubt we take him alive, but if we do, don't make him a maryter.

a very insightful perspective, mr. fulp, and i thank you for it. more so, i thank you for pushing "sess.net's" mildly retarded comments down on the page. he can create beautiful flash, but organizing a thought has him apparently baffled. hey kids, before we abuse the right to front page postings, let's organize more thought than "sess.net" did in his posting. at the very LEAST use more thought than a trained monkey. (yeah, go figure the dry humor out, sess)

I mostly agree with what the columnist says. Throughout history, tyrannical dicatorships and terrorist factions have always been ruled by a select few, with the general populace either in opposition to the faction, or helpless to stop them.

"Bombing the hell out of the Muslims" wouldn't really make much of a damn difference, other than to kill innocents. Ultimately, I think it was best said by Cheney when he said this was going to take dirty espionage and bloodshed to get to the heart of this. Osama and the Taliban are very wily folk - you have to root them out instead of spraying pesticide on the garden.

Wait, that was a pretty stupid analogy. But you get what I mean. Whatever the means, we DO need to get rid of Osama and the Taliban, though.

America was attacked by two planes that slammed into the World Trade Center Towers. Thousands of innocent Americans lost their lives. The Pentagon was attacked by the same terrorist group. This is a direct assault on America's military. Those are the facts. Now, for my opinion.

Liberals say that we should not counter this attack. "We might hurt innocent children," they say. Well, you know what? Fuck the children. I could care less about the damn children that get hit. How many children died in the attack on the towers? Much more than a tomahawk missile's debris field when we bomb the country harboring the terrorists who did this. How many innocent civilians must die before these bleeding hearted morons finally realize that we have to do something.

Another thing: Anti-patriotism. "We must feel for other cultures," they say. Fuck cultures. America's culture is the best, and you know it. We have freedom for everything. We can say what we want, when we want, and who about. Soldiers do not roam the streets in America gunning down rioters. We have the best fucking culture in the world, and whatever culture doesn't follow ours DESERVES to be hit by missile attacks. They DESERVE to be wiped out. Friggin' hippies who hate America so much...Why don't THEY go and live in Russia or Afghanistan? Then they'll come crying back 'You were so right' they'd say.

The terrorists who committed this atrocity deserve to die, as does the country that accepts them. There is no downplaying the situation. There is no saying "it's overexaggerated." Serve your country, people, one way or another. Because if you don't, it may not be around for you to bitch about later.

Us silly americans, when will we learn? We are the big american bear who has just been painfully poked in the ribs and these Afghan fuckers are rolling over and playing dead. "Oh, please, don't hurt us, we are already in pain!" What are we, as a nation, supposed to do? "oh, ok, feel free to support this kind of state-sponsered terriosm, but we won't do anything because we feel sorry for you!!" This is my message to the American People: Letters of propaganda, like this one, are intended to arouse misplaced sympathy towards a common enemy. We will do something drastic. If that involves dead innocent handicapped kids in the street, and/or burning down what is left of their sad, pathetic, misguided country, then so be it!

At 9/17/01 11:06 AM, TomFulp wrote: We've heard a lot of different response to recent events - many people want to turn Afghanistan into a parking lot, while others want to shower Osama Bin Laden with love and show him we are not the monsters he thinks we are.

Yeah, many peopel do want to destroy evrything. I go to a school with Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and many of them are from Israel ( I can never speel it right), Pakistan, and Afghanistan. With so many people hating many of my freinds are yelled at for "blowing up the twin towers" even though they sympathies deeply with Americans and they are half Armerican themselves. Oneof the most disturbing commments was a kid called my best feind who is Jewish, Hindu and Indian an "Iranian that blew up the big towers". These peopel ignorance appauls me.

Just bombing or invading afaganistan to get Bin Laden won't solve anything. Even if you destroyed him and his organisation you would still be left with the same situation, and the same hateful atmosphere which would just produce someone else to take his place. Try imagining living there.
The only way to go even a small way to solving the problem is for any US/Nato effort to stop Bin Laden to make sure they leave the people of afganistan in a better situation than when they found them. I know it's a cliche, but they've got to break the cycle of hate or will be doing this again in 5 or 10 years time.
(and yes, I do think he has to be stopped. Even if he isn't lying through his teeth, and didn't have anything to do with it, he supports terrorism, and he would try and do it again.)

alright, Im not a violent person :::snicker snicker:::: damn I can't say that with out laughing, okay im not an extremly violent person but the way I see it is if what that lady says is true that people are suffering even after all the money we've given them then what does that say? Thats right, their absolutly crappy country who does not know how to save money. I say we bomb them and put them out of their missery. Their not going anywhere, their not getting any better. I say level the country and let Pakistan have it because obviosly Bin Laden and that Taliban person are not gonna do anything. Why don't they attack Russia and getting them back for the bullshit they did, the reason their poor? Why? Because Bin Laden knows that he can attack the U.S. and we will take it between the legs with a smile on our face and a tear in our eye. I don't know about anyone else but like my statement befor lets fucking bomb the living shit out of them!

At 9/17/01 05:42 PM, Tesla_Trooper wrote: America was attacked by two planes that slammed into the World Trade Center Towers. Thousands of innocent Americans lost their lives. The Pentagon was attacked by the same terrorist group. This is a direct assault on America's military. Those are the facts. Now, for my opinion.

Liberals say that we should not counter this attack. "We might hurt innocent children," they say. Well, you know what? Fuck the children. I could care less about the damn children that get hit. How many children died in the attack on the towers? Much more than a tomahawk missile's debris field when we bomb the country harboring the terrorists who did this. How many innocent civilians must die before these bleeding hearted morons finally realize that we have to do something.

Another thing: Anti-patriotism. "We must feel for other cultures," they say. Fuck cultures. America's culture is the best, and you know it. We have freedom for everything. We can say what we want, when we want, and who about. Soldiers do not roam the streets in America gunning down rioters. We have the best fucking culture in the world, and whatever culture doesn't follow ours DESERVES to be hit by missile attacks. They DESERVE to be wiped out. Friggin' hippies who hate America so much...Why don't THEY go and live in Russia or Afghanistan? Then they'll come crying back 'You were so right' they'd say.

The terrorists who committed this atrocity deserve to die, as does the country that accepts them. There is no downplaying the situation. There is no saying "it's overexaggerated." Serve your country, people, one way or another. Because if you don't, it may not be around for you to bitch about later.

Since you obviously have been spoon fed capitalistic propoganda all of your life, let me educate you a bit. America has killed far more innocents in the past year in "terrorist attacks" then were killed in the WTC bombing. And America does NOT necessarily have the best system of government - like all government, it has it's ups and downs. The guy who said that has obviously NEVER left the country.

Like I said before. All you guys that want to go over and kill random people - go right ahead. Forget bombs - U.S. zealots vs. terrorist zealots hand-to-hand.

Of course, most of you spouting "kill all the arabs" aren't even eligible for a potential draft - and not even mature enough to know what killing actually entails. Put you guys in a war and you'd start crying for mommy.

I say while we're ending Bin Laden's life, we mine as well end their suffering. Bomb them.

At 9/17/01 11:34 AM, tkeme2urleadr wrote: Fuck em...Those people at the pentagon...innocent civilians...those people in the airplanes...men,women and children...all innocent civilians...the thousands of people in the WTC's...very innocent civilians...Kill em all...now

HEY YOUR JUST AS BAD AS THE TERRORIST WHO DID THIS! ITS NOT OK TO KILL INNOCENT AMERICANS BUT ITS OK TO KILL INNCOENT MUSLIMS!YOU ARE AS SICK AND EVIL AS THE TERRORIST WERE!

Of course, most of you spouting "kill all the arabs" aren't even eligible for a potential draft - and not even mature enough to know what killing actually entails. Put you guys in a war and you'd start crying for mommy.

True, true. I still say kill the Afganistanies (How do u pluralize that?) I have seen friends of friends who lost friends and family members in the bombings... The Afganistanie government harbored Bin Laden, they desearve to rot in hell. I'm still In highschool, so yes I can't be drafted. But both my brothers can, and I'd like to help. Anything I can do physicly, like load and arm planes or ships in US docks or something... But, in a phrase a friend of mine said, "We need to go overthere, invade their sorry ass country, and do some serious A-rab bashing!"
.
.
Note: I didn't say that, my friend kyle did that"

"Finally someone can think with thier brains and not with thier anger. Now just if the news could get this out. If Americans want to do something about this, lets send ground troops in and avoid killing innocent people, and go after the monster who did this! Everyone is so quick to say bomb them, but let's not be like the monster who did this and kill innocent people. If it's not ok for someone to kill inocent people here what makes it right to kill inocent people in Afganastan. We are all HUMAN BEINGS aren't we ?!"

People like you make me embarrased to be American. It's a shame that ignorant people like you take up most of this country! Oh yea lets just bomb afganastan that will help. We need to go after who did it you moron! And chances are slim and close to none to killing osama bin laden by bombing them, but one thing is for sure we will kill a lot of people who had nothing to do with it, humm maybe that will stop terorism..well it wont. Bin laden could care less about the citizens. And all afgan people do not support bin laden idiot! If you dont like us being attacked and innocent people dying what makes it right for us do it to someone who aint responsible..im not saying lets not fight back but lets do it the right way and not to make morons like you happy.

yea man, put bin laden god damn head on a stick. kick that mother fuckers ass. and if your reading this and you lost a relative in this event.im sorry. but if i were old enough to go in the army...id kill 100 arab folleower scumbag queer ass bastard bin laden followers for everyone in this whole god damn country...thats like...wait(1,000,000,000,000,000,000 x100=) thats like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 00,000,000,000 dead arab followers of bin laden. fuck yea

im out...later

Since you obviously have been spoon fed capitalistic propoganda all of your life, let me educate you a bit. America has killed far more innocents in the past year in "terrorist attacks" then were killed in the WTC bombing. And America does NOT necessarily have the best system of government - like all government, it has it's ups and downs. The guy who said that has obviously NEVER left the country.

Like I said before. All you guys that want to go over and kill random people - go right ahead. Forget bombs - U.S. zealots vs. terrorist zealots hand-to-hand.

Of course, most of you spouting "kill all the arabs" aren't even eligible for a potential draft - and not even mature enough to know what killing actually entails. Put you guys in a war and you'd start crying for mommy.

LOL, I'VE never left the country? You've obviously never left the country, and if you have, you've been to some cushy hotel with lots of slave girls dancing to your whims. How bout you, huh? YOU ever killed anyone? If you have, then, well, don't start on that "it's the most awful feeling in the world, defending your country" bull-crap. "Spoon-fed capitalist propaganda" all my life? Quite the opposite...I've heard only liberal crap all of my life. Political correctness and all of that bullshit. Maybe YOU need to go join a terrorist organization, since you obviously support Bin Laden.

I wrote this as a review for a flash that particularly bothered me, due to its author's stunningly idiotic (anti)grasp of the events surrounding the attack. It's a direct cut-n-paste, and I apologise for anyone offended by my language. (In self-defense, I figure that anyone on NG in the first place shouldn't be phased by much.)
"Enjoy."

GODDAMMIT, WILL YOU SELF-RIGHTEOUS COCKSUCKERS STOP MAKING A MOCKERY OF THE USA'S INTELLIGENCE, PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES, AND ACTUALLY (((T-H-I-N-K))) ABOUT THIS SITUATION?!?!? Yes, people died! Good, productive Americans, with families, friends, spouses! Make no mistake! They've been wronged, and justice is in order! BUT WHERE'S THE JUSTICE IN SLAUGHTERING ANOTHER COUNTRY'S CIVILIAN POPULATION?!?! It'd be the WTC all over again!!!! ARE YOU TRUE-BLUE AMERICAN PATRIOTS ALL SO BLINDED BY "PRIDE IN YOUR COUNTRY" THAT YOU CAN'T SEE THIS?!?! Just because we're all reeling from the loss of our countrymen and we have plenty of nukes AND the name of the country that was taken over by the terrorist organization that is most likely responsible, that doesn't give us the green flag to start sending missiles over! THERE ARE INNOCENTS in Afghanistan... thousands of ’em, who had NOTHING at all to do with the tragedies over here, and a goodly number of them probably despise the terrorist's acts to the same degree we do! WHAT MAKES THEIR LIVES ANY LESS VALUABLE THAN THE ONES THAT WERE LOST IN NEW YORK, D.C., OR PENN??
I figure many biased people will have a few pop comebacks to my opinions listed here; as of now, I will try to address them:
~
"they bomb us; we bomb them! eye 4 an eye!"
>Did you hear me at all, asshole? The Taliban (the supposed “terrorist” organization) had WRESTLED control over from Afghanistan back in 1997. Essentially, Afghanian civilians have NOTHING to do with the attacks on the US! THE ATTACKS ARE NOT THEIR FAULT!!!!!!!
~
“bullshit! they harbor terrorist camps! they’re responsible!”
>Does “hostile takeover” ring a bell? Afghanians aren’t housing them WILLINGLY; they were FORCED to do so by the Taliban! You could probably call them P.O.W.!
~
“ok, then have them send over bin laden so we can torture his ass; then, we won’t bomb...”
>Fuck, read my last two scenarios before this; I’m getting pissed already.
~
“we can’t let bin laden strike again! nuke those fuckers!”
>What gave you the impression that Bin Laden is that stupid? He’s probably FAR away from Afghanistan by now, knowing that the natural inclination of America will be to bomb the crap out of the country he‘s most associated with. Thus, a counter-strike will do less than nil; IT’LL PROBABLY BE WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT TO HAPPEN.
As far as I can see, the only reason left supporting the bombing of Afghanistan is pure, unbridled HATRED. Now come on, people, don’t sink so low as to end the lives of others simply to make us feel better. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I thought that we wanted to prosecute the terrorists... NOT EMULATE THEM.
I found it ironic that the author of this movie used the phrase, "dedicated to all of those who died because of attacks," because if the US decides to strike back at innocents, that list will unnecessarily grow.
Well, all we can really hope for now is a wise decision by Dubya... otherwise, the future looks far bleaker than it used to...
“With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility.”

That's it, and I firmly stand behind every word of it.

-sic_maget

At 9/17/01 06:43 PM, arrogancy wrote:

At 9/17/01 05:42 PM, Tesla_Trooper wrote: America was attacked by two planes that slammed into the World Trade Center Towers. Thousands of innocent Americans lost their lives. The Pentagon was attacked by the same terrorist group. This is a direct assault on America's military. Those are the facts. Now, for my opinion.

Liberals say that we should not counter this attack. "We might hurt innocent children," they say. Well, you know what? Fuck the children. I could care less about the damn children that get hit. How many children died in the attack on the towers? Much more than a tomahawk missile's debris field when we bomb the country harboring the terrorists who did this. How many innocent civilians must die before these bleeding hearted morons finally realize that we have to do something.

Another thing: Anti-patriotism. "We must feel for other cultures," they say. Fuck cultures. America's culture is the best, and you know it. We have freedom for everything. We can say what we want, when we want, and who about. Soldiers do not roam the streets in America gunning down rioters. We have the best fucking culture in the world, and whatever culture doesn't follow ours DESERVES to be hit by missile attacks. They DESERVE to be wiped out. Friggin' hippies who hate America so much...Why don't THEY go and live in Russia or Afghanistan? Then they'll come crying back 'You were so right' they'd say.

The terrorists who committed this atrocity deserve to die, as does the country that accepts them. There is no downplaying the situation. There is no saying "it's overexaggerated." Serve your country, people, one way or another. Because if you don't, it may not be around for you to bitch about later.

Since you obviously have been spoon fed capitalistic propoganda all of your life, let me educate you a bit. America has killed far more innocents in the past year in "terrorist attacks" then were killed in the WTC bombing. And America does NOT necessarily have the best system of government - like all government, it has it's ups and downs. The guy who said that has obviously NEVER left the country.

By the way, WHAT U.S. terrorist attacks? Are you referring to bombing Iraq's radar stations or something? The United States has never terrorized potentially, I don't know where you get this innaccurate anti-American crap.

Geez, people, didn't Ansari JUST say why it would be a bloody stupid idea to bomb Afghanistan. The Taliban are good at hiding. They'd just slink off somewhere while we bombed all their civilians and then come back out of their holes like snakes to declare us evil yet again. And if we did that, they'd be right. Our government does plenty of evil things that nobody even tells us, the citizens about. We have to find out later when we get news leaked from other countries. Yet we're still willing to fight for our country. If the Afghanis deserve bombings now, then we deserved the WTC bombing. And for the numbskull who said that America has the best system of government ever-get out more. Talk to people from other countries, especially places like Switzerland....in fact, most of Europe. Lots of them wouldn't move here if we paid them.

Darn you, Tom! I put that quote up first, in the original thread! Nobody wanted to talk about it then...I tell ya, I get no respect. Anyways, I think the best course of action is to get dirty and go in there with troops to flush the rats out. Yeah, we'd lose some soldiers, but the losses would be less than if we simply bombed the heck out of Afghanistan. An American life doesn't mean any more than a foreign one. People aren't less important simply because you've never met them. Well, have fun, because I know more ignorant testosterone-driven ninnyhammers are going to ignore the message and keep saying, "Kill the towelheads!" and "They bombed us, they asked for it! Now they'll all pay!" Foolish children. Does life mean that little to you? Everyone is somebody's sibling, child, best friend, first love, spouse, soulmate...just because they're foreign and live in a different culture doesn't mean they're evil and have no human qualities. Deep down, even that scum-weasel bin-Ladin is human, but in the interest of the rest of the world, he must be dealt with. I've said my peace(intentional misspelling), time to be off.

At 9/17/01 08:10 PM, sic_maget wrote: I wrote this as a review for a flash that particularly bothered me, due to its author's stunningly idiotic (anti)grasp of the events surrounding the attack. It's a direct cut-n-paste, and I apologise for anyone offended by my language. (In self-defense, I figure that anyone on NG in the first place shouldn't be phased by much.)
"Enjoy."

GODDAMMIT, WILL YOU SELF-RIGHTEOUS COCKSUCKERS STOP MAKING A MOCKERY OF THE USA'S INTELLIGENCE, PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES, AND ACTUALLY (((T-H-I-N-K))) ABOUT THIS SITUATION?!?!? Yes, people died! Good, productive Americans, with families, friends, spouses! Make no mistake! They've been wronged, and justice is in order! BUT WHERE'S THE JUSTICE IN SLAUGHTERING ANOTHER COUNTRY'S CIVILIAN POPULATION?!?! It'd be the WTC all over again!!!! ARE YOU TRUE-BLUE AMERICAN PATRIOTS ALL SO BLINDED BY "PRIDE IN YOUR COUNTRY" THAT YOU CAN'T SEE THIS?!?! Just because we're all reeling from the loss of our countrymen and we have plenty of nukes AND the name of the country that was taken over by the terrorist organization that is most likely responsible, that doesn't give us the green flag to start sending missiles over! THERE ARE INNOCENTS in Afghanistan... thousands of ’em, who had NOTHING at all to do with the tragedies over here, and a goodly number of them probably despise the terrorist's acts to the same degree we do! WHAT MAKES THEIR LIVES ANY LESS VALUABLE THAN THE ONES THAT WERE LOST IN NEW YORK, D.C., OR PENN??
I figure many biased people will have a few pop comebacks to my opinions listed here; as of now, I will try to address them:
~
"they bomb us; we bomb them! eye 4 an eye!"
>Did you hear me at all, asshole? The Taliban (the supposed “terrorist” organization) had WRESTLED control over from Afghanistan back in 1997. Essentially, Afghanian civilians have NOTHING to do with the attacks on the US! THE ATTACKS ARE NOT THEIR FAULT!!!!!!!
~
“bullshit! they harbor terrorist camps! they’re responsible!”
>Does “hostile takeover” ring a bell? Afghanians aren’t housing them WILLINGLY; they were FORCED to do so by the Taliban! You could probably call them P.O.W.!
~
“ok, then have them send over bin laden so we can torture his ass; then, we won’t bomb...”
>Fuck, read my last two scenarios before this; I’m getting pissed already.
~
“we can’t let bin laden strike again! nuke those fuckers!”
>What gave you the impression that Bin Laden is that stupid? He’s probably FAR away from Afghanistan by now, knowing that the natural inclination of America will be to bomb the crap out of the country he‘s most associated with. Thus, a counter-strike will do less than nil; IT’LL PROBABLY BE WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT TO HAPPEN.
As far as I can see, the only reason left supporting the bombing of Afghanistan is pure, unbridled HATRED. Now come on, people, don’t sink so low as to end the lives of others simply to make us feel better. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I thought that we wanted to prosecute the terrorists... NOT EMULATE THEM.
I found it ironic that the author of this movie used the phrase, "dedicated to all of those who died because of attacks," because if the US decides to strike back at innocents, that list will unnecessarily grow.
Well, all we can really hope for now is a wise decision by Dubya... otherwise, the future looks far bleaker than it used to...
“With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility.”

That's it, and I firmly stand behind every word of it.


-sic_maget

I personally believe bombing civilian targets is wrong. However, I do firmly believe that collateral damage is acceptable. If we are going to bomb military installations, and some stupid Pakistan kid gets hit by debris (he's been taught that the U.S.A is evil anyway) and dies, I personally could not care less. Sorry for his family, but a lot more died in the Trade Center bombings, and if we don't bomb the bastards who harbor or did this heinous crimes, then we'd just prove ourself to be soft and weak.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

-Darth Vader, Star Wars

***US SAILOR WITH A FEW WORDS***

As I sit here on a US Navy Destroyer, I think to myself...what in the hell are a lot of you morons talking about? Speaking from the Navy side of the table, I don't think anyone seems to understand the shit we are going through since this happened. Is there more that will happen, who knows. I don't. Infact, I don't know much at this point, and that is why I (along with the rest of the military) am on 4 hour notice to go out to sea and protect our wonderful land we call America. Do you know what it is like to kiss your wife goodbye every morning wondering if that was the last kiss? Do you know what it is like to tell your 5 year old son that daddy has to go away for a while and not know if he will ever see you again? All of this because some deranged assholes decided to fuck with America. I am not complaining about my job. I love protecting the freedom and democracy that is given to all of you. Its just awfully hard some days to wonder if Christmas of 2000 was the last time I will see my parents thanks to some dick with a lot of money and a lot of sick ideals.

TO ALL OF THE ARAB-AMERICANS...
If you are not involved, I am sorry you are going through what you are going through. I don't condone acts of hatred against ethnicity.

TO ALL AMERICANS:
Be proud of who YOU are. We are a mix of the entire worlds origins. That makes us great. We will not sit and twidle our thumbs while people look down on us for not being from a certain culture, or believing in a certain religion. We have aided almost every nation in the world when they needed help, and asked nothing in return. We even aided Afganistan during the cold war. Its time other nations start relizing that we are a great and wonderful place. America will not die. We will only grow stronger.

TO THE TERRORISTS:
Damn. I am glad I am not you. Our mighty Commander, President G.W.Bush is going to give military members like me the authority to shove a missile so far up your ass that your eyes will pop.
I hope you know what you did. And God, I hope you are scared and crying. This has only just begun, and guess what shit heads, you're gonna be in Checkmate before you can scream gangrape.

-Proud to Serve, Proud to be 100% American, and Proud to already know what the rest of the world is going to see:)

Operations Specialist
US Navy

Yes there's so much to talk about, and all of it is so significant, but much of what needs to be said has been said already.

So what I'm asking is When did Tom change his profile pic? Where the hell have I been? I dunno what to say about it. The new pic looks more depressed that the last one, complete with bluish tint and serious expression. How old was the old one? Looks like he's lost weight. I assume htis has something to do with NG's problems and maybe the nation's (the imminent ones, like recession).

And dern it, I never saved a copy of the old one! :(

Alright, I am already aware I am going to sound like I am a young punk that has no idea what I am talking about but listen. I seriously want to bomb the hell out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran. The whole world is now against them and did you see the people CHEERING when they heard that innocent Americans were killed? 1,000's of men, women and children killed and they are CHEERING! Why the FUCK! should be show them any mercy? They are born to die, they are born to kill the U.S they recruit the poor kids of the country and train them for 9 years to HATE us. By time they are 8 they could kill you and spit on your body. Don't give them the chance. We have 3 days untill we go to war unless Afghanistan turns Bin Ladin over which we all know wont happen. And IF they do there are about 100 other people that will take his place. Turn the place into a big crater and make it a tourist trap. Personally, I would be the first to cheer when we bomb them. I'm tired of America never fighting back. It is OUR time. They started something they can't finish and they WILL pay.
-Cyprus

Very well written. I completely agree.

First I will state that I am a born and raised Canadian. I, like most of the rest of the world have been following the unfolding events of the WTC, the Pentagon and so on. YES, this is a great tragedy BUT will the capture of Bin Laden solve it? Will this on act of trying to reclaim America's dignity solve everything, or start THE WAR? I can't stress how saddened I am that another human could do this, or ever do this to any human. Whether in a large scale or a small. This is a crime against HUMANITY. But will more death and destruction solve the problem? Fighting terrorists is a whole new game. American's can't just bomb and area and make it all right. In any case, I personally feel that if a war is started, we are no better than the terrorists that killed so many people in the WTC, the Pentagon and on the flight that went down in Pensilvania. Peace may never be known to some generations in the past, but I hope and (pray) that my generation and the one after me know and identify with the ideals of peace. Yes, I understand that for peace you must prepare for war, but that doesn't mean you have to have one. Anger fuels war. War fuels death. Death fuels anger. It's a never ending cycle. I am plagued of the stories and video of past wars, but I see the pattern. Stop the pattern America! Stop it, but NEVER FORGET. Be angry, bury your lost families, but don't lower yourselves to the level of terrorists yourself. War solves nothing.