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Socialism is taking our country by storm

Just to clear up one thing... Socialism and Communism are two very different things.

Socialism involves the government caring for everyone wholly and equally.
Communism is a governmental structure where the government controls all business.
Just because the Right of the 50's was afraid of Socialism, they tied it into Communism, that of which everyone at the time was afraid of, now we think they are the same, and they're not.

any form of gov't can be run the right way, meaning a friendly relationship between gov't and its citizens...

but communism is not right morally or ethically.

there is no right way for communism but it could work.

describe the "Free World".

there is a vast difference between Marx's "The Communist Manifesto" (which is the actual ideology of communism), and the forms in which it has been put into practice, which include Leninism, Stalinism and Maoism to name but a few. As a pure ideology, communism is perfect because every person can provide according to their abilities, and the needy can survive off the communal produce.

However there are two main problems - the free rider problem and the fact that humans need some kind of governing structure.

The free rider problem hinges on human selfishness. It is the reason that the collective farms in stalin's russia failed. if someone has the option of working, or having somebody else do the work for him, enough people will be lazy and not work, so the whole system will break down. take street lighting, for example. who in their right mind would volunteer to provide street lighting when everybody else can use it once it is provided. even if you club together to buy it, one person living on the street can refuse to pay, and will still get to use the lights. therefore why should anyone pay, etc etc.

The second thing about the structure is that somebody needs to organise all of the distribution etc of the communist produce. he will not be able to distribute it perfectly; he's only human. thus there will be shortages in some areas and again society breaks down because they are unable to function without the necessary goods. this assumes also that the distributor person (eg president) is acting unselfishly, whereas in a position of power he could easily abuse this and act selfishly. as you can see, the system is fatally flawed.

theoretically, then, communism is good, and can work on small scales in communes etc. however it is totally unsuited to the governing of large countries, where various impracticalities mean that government will break down and totalitarianism will result.

You're entire post is wholly dependent on your opinion of human nature though.

it isnt dependent on all of human nature, just enough people being selfish so that the system breaks down, and im sure that youll agree with me that there are plenty of selfish people in the world, arent there

At 7/4/04 08:52 PM, delteated wrote: it isnt dependent on all of human nature, just enough people being selfish so that the system breaks down, and im sure that youll agree with me that there are plenty of selfish people in the world, arent there

Ok, so you're saying that today's societal norms is what is keeping a communist system from suceeding? That it's not specifically human nature?

I'd agree with you then. By societal norms change. Laziness and selfishness don't have to be tolerated.

For those interested:
Democracy in Cuba

Fidel Castro on Democracy.

"If the people didn’t take active part in all the Revolution’s activities, we would not have been able to stand firm for more than 30 years against the blockade and threats of the US. The essence of democracy is expressed in our country by the popular defence of the government."

"In our society, democracy means multiparty free elections. However, issues such as who controls the material resources of society and in whose interest society is organised are largely deemed to be outside the scope of democratic discussion."

Too often, only western, liberal democracy is considered "Democratic". Too often, the "for the people" part of democracy is left out of the equation.

That article is really an eye-opener eh? I'm thinking about moving to Cuba.

I'd recommend a visit first. I've heard a lot of mixed opinions about Cuba firsthand from friends, faculty, etc., who've traveled there, or lived for a time.

I would really like to visit, however..