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Response to North Korea... 2017-08-11 21:22:45 (edited 2017-08-11 21:23:40) Reply

At 8/11/17 07:00 PM, dasmania5824 wrote: No, I don't disregard anything, what I'm saying is, in case you misunderstood, is that all nations are both corrupt and looking after their own interests, including both NK and US, only difference is that NK acts on a regional scale whereas the US on a global scale, do you actually think US direct and proxy wars today are for charity and for saving people?

And yet they still keep asking us (Middle Eastern governments chiefly) to do their dirty work for them, but yes we do fight for our self-interest. Here's the difference, we're trying to clean up decades of neglect, if not outright support of terror groups that attack us and Europe, whereas North Korea only serves to stick at the craw at everyone else because they know that the Chinese will continue to support them, even if they're tired of their shit. Not to mention when nuclear weapons get involved, it automatically becomes a global issue.

How many Iraqis and Afghans died thanks to the lovely peace keepers and how many died during corrupt Socialist rule?

That was a different time period against a different enemy that was trying to get close to Pakistan and China, and if you want to get technical, the Soviets were the ones who destabilize Afghanistan first.

I say Afghanistan was much better off with its puppet corrupt but stable Soviet government than with American-supported Mujahideen or Taliban Islamists, that's just one example and don't make me laugh with the "US is fighting Taliban" because that's just ridiculous not only because they supported the movement from the beginning but also because after 16 years of fighting US and other Nato troops, Taliban should not be booming enough to send more terrorists outside Afghanistan.

Better? HAH! The Soviets weren't exactly known for their kindness and decency when spreading their influence (read: destabilize) to other countries, but that's not the point. It's not (wholly at least) our fault that some of them turned when Bin Laden took over Al-Qaeda and used Afghanistan as a base of operations while the Taliban essentially shielded them for so long. We aren't psychic, there was no way that we could do anything about the Civil War soon afterwards, because it was a total clusterfuck

No, you don't care, you are looking after your own interests by investing in nations that contribute to your power and influence globally, which is a very smart thing to do, but by all means not charitable.

You're right on one thing, we don't do this as a charity, because we're not a charity, we're a country. Furthermore, this isn't just a power grab in a region with China, it's primarily to keep Seoul from being turned into a crater, Japan to get nuked again and Russia/China pick the bones off North Korea if they do attack. I never said that we do all this out of kindness, but keeping millions of South Koreans and Japanese safe from Korean Eric Cartman in Kim-Jung Un a nation of a billion people biting at their heels in terms of economic and military influence and a now belligerent Russia, there's compassion in that.

Yes, it was the best thing to do, I personally would have nuked Japan with 200 more Fatmen just for the Nanking massacre, that's not what I was getting at. I was making a point that NK has never used an atomic bomb anywhere.

Just because they haven't launched one doesn't mean that they won't use it given the chance, especially with KEC at the helm. Now, I greatly doubt that they will do so, because there is no self-presentation in razing Seoul to the ground and they aren't suicidal. Nuclear weapons is dangerous enough already, when you add totalitarian dictatorship and constant badgering of their neighbors, bad combination.

NK is an extremely closed society, they don't view anyone, they don't give a fuck about the world outside NK except when the oppressive regime is threatened in any way. Socialist oppressive regimes are very stable, unlike Democratic/Liberal systems who can't seem to get enough war.

Stable =/= friendly. Furthermore, oppressive Socialist regimes have killed, rape and displace millions of people the last 75 years or so. Mao killed 60 million of his own people, Stalin purged tens of millions in fits of paranoia, Pol Pot committed nearly autogenocided his own country of Cambodia and tried to do the same thing in Vietnam, Fidel killed or displaced millions of Cuban and nearly started WW3 in the 60's. Get the picture?

I stopped counting the number of wars started by the US a long time ago, but I can't seem to remember any war NK has even been a part of, except the first one.

That's because China covers for them for decades while they talk tough shit at SK, Japan and the like. You don't need to fight in many wars when you have someone else do the heavy lifting for you.

Assumptions are meaningless, NK actually can cause an awful lot of damage in the region to US interests and allies regardless of the outcome but they haven't and they've made it clear they aren't going to unless forced into it, meanwhile the peaceful US has destroyed or partially destroyed how many countries? Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, how many?

Only Iraq was the one we "destroyed", the rest we either destabilized to begin with by someone else or was a total misunderstanding that ended up badly.

I think you've been fed too much of your own propaganda that you think every nation around the world is a crazy war machine just waiting to pounce on your ass when your own country has the highest number of military bases around the world and has done more acts of provocation than anyone else by far, since after WW2 speaking obviously.

Disregarding Russia, China, U.K., France, Italy and Saudi Arabia to name a few. It's tough to be a superpower when everyone keeps turning to us to fix their problems for them, some of which date back to the days of European/Japanese imperialism.

Now don't get me wrong, US fought on the right side in WW2 and has done the world a great favor by being one of the 3 super powers that ended Fascist reign, however, if this warmongering keeps up you will become the Fascist yourself.

Protip: You can't be fascist when you have two other branches of government keeping the executive in check more times than not. Authoritarian maybe, but definitely not fascist. Fascism is nothing more than a cheap insult that lazy critics use in order to demonize something that don't know shit about.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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AcidX
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Response to North Korea... 2017-08-11 21:33:01 Reply

OH BOY.
I CANT WAIT FOR COLD WAR 2.0

JUST WHAT WE NEED.
CRIPPLED ECONOMY? DONT WORRY, MAKE MORE BOMBS!!

Really tho?
Do people not think NK would've nuked someone already if they were that stupid?
Those ICBMs literally mean nothing. They've had submarines capable to launch nukes for long long time. Submarines that would be able to escape our radar fairly well too.

They're either doubly stupid for not realising, or people are dumb for goading the communist nations into Cold War 2.0 and eventually world war 3.

Fake news.


Don't hate people or individuals. Love everybody. Just hate their dumb ideas, stupid self-absorption and precious beliefs.

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dasmania5824
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Response to North Korea... 2017-08-12 18:09:12 Reply

At 8/11/17 09:22 PM, orangebomb wrote:
At 8/11/17 07:00 PM, dasmania5824 wrote:
And yet they still keep asking us (Middle Eastern governments chiefly) to do their dirty work for them, but yes we do fight for our self-interest. Here's the difference, we're trying to clean up decades of neglect, if not outright support of terror groups that attack us and Europe, whereas North Korea only serves to stick at the craw at everyone else because they know that the Chinese will continue to support them, even if they're tired of their shit. Not to mention when nuclear weapons get involved, it automatically becomes a global issue.

US and Nato is the reason these terrorist organizations exist in the first place, who founded the Mujahideen movement in Afghanistan? Who is pretending to fight ISIS only to drop weapons and ammunitions while bombing strictly random civilians in Iraq and Syria as the terrorists increase in power and numbers in areas where anti-ISIS coalition is supposed to be handling? You are living in a delusion where you create organizations and then make it look like you're at war with them. Again, Democratic/Liberal systems are unstable warmongers that once fought the Fascists, what a shame.
Yes, corrupt Islamist countries like Saudi Arabia are allied with Nato (although without membership) and you do their dirty work which also happens to be your own dirty work too willingly, does that exempt you from responsibility, that you had local partners in international organized crime?

That was a different time period against a different enemy that was trying to get close to Pakistan and China, and if you want to get technical, the Soviets were the ones who destabilize Afghanistan first.

That's just deflection, the Afghan government requested Soviet aid and the US supported the Mujahideen, you know, the guys who behead and stone to death, all that crap, US supported them against the Soviets.

Better? HAH! The Soviets weren't exactly known for their kindness and decency when spreading their influence (read: destabilize) to other countries, but that's not the point. It's not (wholly at least) our fault that some of them turned when Bin Laden took over Al-Qaeda and used Afghanistan as a base of operations while the Taliban essentially shielded them for so long. We aren't psychic, there was no way that we could do anything about the Civil War soon afterwards, because it was a total clusterfuck

There's no justification for supporting Islamists, that's like giving a gun to a criminal, blocking the police, then exclaiming "oh no, he killed someone, we had no idea that was going to happen, we aren't psychic, we thought he was just gonna play with the gun a little bit then give it back", in other words, that's playing stupid, or more accurately since you aren't stupid, taking other people as idiots.

You're right on one thing, we don't do this as a charity, because we're not a charity, we're a country. Furthermore, this isn't just a power grab in a region with China, it's primarily to keep Seoul from being turned into a crater, Japan to get nuked again and Russia/China pick the bones off North Korea if they do attack. I never said that we do all this out of kindness, but keeping millions of South Koreans and Japanese safe from Korean Eric Cartman in Kim-Jung Un a nation of a billion people biting at their heels in terms of economic and military influence and a now belligerent Russia, there's compassion in that.

Maybe, I can't pretend to know intentions, but this is mostly interests as this "compassion" is only possible towards people who can serve your interests.

Just because they haven't launched one doesn't mean that they won't use it given the chance, especially with KEC at the helm. Now, I greatly doubt that they will do so, because there is no self-presentation in razing Seoul to the ground and they aren't suicidal. Nuclear weapons is dangerous enough already, when you add totalitarian dictatorship and constant badgering of their neighbors, bad combination.

Again, assumptions, should I kill you unprovoked saying you were going to kill me or should I take precautions and give out warnings? Trump seems determined to start a new war(s) somewhere and can't decide where.

Stable =/= friendly. Furthermore, oppressive Socialist regimes have killed, rape and displace millions of people the last 75 years or so. Mao killed 60 million of his own people, Stalin purged tens of millions in fits of paranoia, Pol Pot committed nearly autogenocided his own country of Cambodia and tried to do the same thing in Vietnam, Fidel killed or displaced millions of Cuban and nearly started WW3 in the 60's. Get the picture?

True, but what do you care if they kill their own people? Besides, doesn't matter if friendly or hostile as long as they don't explode out of no where. At this point I would pick any of these horrible regimes over the unstable ticking bomb, i.e. US.

That's because China covers for them for decades while they talk tough shit at SK, Japan and the like. You don't need to fight in many wars when you have someone else do the heavy lifting for you.

Covers what exactly? Which South Koreans and Japanese did NK kill? I know they've had some minor clashes but otherwise the situation has been under control for decades, so why does Mr.Trump want to provoke NK and destabilize the peninsula?

Only Iraq was the one we "destroyed", the rest we either destabilized to begin with by someone else or was a total misunderstanding that ended up badly.

Seems to me you disregard a lot of things, US is training opposition in Syria who happen to grow beards and behead Syrians (it's not a secret look it up), US was part of the Nato-based coalition that directly destroyed Libya and paved the way for Islamists, US also supports Saudi Arabia in the war against Yemen and that's not mentioning Afghanistan and Vietnam. I'm not saying you should pay reparations, I'm just saying it would be nice to put an end to it, prevention is the greatest medicine.

Disregarding Russia, China, U.K., France, Italy and Saudi Arabia to name a few. It's tough to be a superpower when everyone keeps turning to us to fix their problems for them, some of which date back to the days of European/Japanese imperialism.

Uh, no, you're just assuming again, this thread is about NK and US so it makes since to discuss just that. I agree with you but I think U.K, Israel and Saudi Arabia are the worst of them and the roots of countless problems.

Protip: You can't be fascist when you have two other branches of government keeping the executive in check more times than not. Authoritarian maybe, but definitely not fascist. Fascism is nothing more than a cheap insult that lazy critics use in order to demonize something that don't know shit about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism_and_ideology

Now you're being a smartass cynic, I used Fascist to describe an ideology and you're focusing on irrelevant managerial and governmental aspects of the term. Let's use a different simpler term then, US fought the transgressors and is becoming one gradually, this can change in the future, but this is the case in the present.