Buy American, Hire American

[EdyKel]

Okay, so Trump just recently signed this executive order. He was trying to make good on a campaign promise about keeping jobs here, and wanting people to buy American products. Sounds good, sound patriotic and stuff, but is total bullshit. I mean, it would be nice if more stuff was produced here, and jobs kept here for US citizens, instead of of being outsourced to foreign countries and foreigners. But this executive order does absolutely nothing. It's like a con man's game, where it sound like it's going to do something, but it's nothing more than an empty gesture because it has no power behind it it to enforce anything. It's basically "let's think about it", and there's nothing more to it than that.

It was also pointed out that the person signing this is a huge fucking hypocrite, because most of his product brands are made in foreign countries. He even hires foreigners to work at some of his resorts, and applied for some more h-2b visas for more foreigners to work at these places this year. I mean, there's a huge problem with these types of visas being abused by corporations, to replace their american workforce with cheaper labor - and adding insult to injury by having american workers being laid off to train their replacements.

So, no surprise, Trump is nothing more than a used car salesman, selling you an idea, by hyping the shit out of it, and under delivering, because it will hurt his own bottom line if he follows through on it. This is just another example why I don't think Trump actually wanted to be President, and was just using the run for presidency for free publicity for himself and his brands.

And here's a piece from Jack Tapper on this

[EdyKel]

At 4/19/17 05:41 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 4/19/17 01:52 AM, EdyKel wrote: and was just using the run for presidency for free publicity for himself and his brands.

Free publicity sounds great i'm gonna run for president next.

Wait a second presidential campaigns are ridiculously expensive FUCK!

Son, at least try to stay on topic for your first post, instead of trying to deflect and start a fight with me. So, I'm just going to assume you agree that Trump was pretty hollow on his promise about bringing back american jobs, while also being a hypocrite.

As to your attempt to deflect from the topic at hand - the one you know is true - Trump treated his political campaign like he treated his charity, The Trump foundation, as a personnel piggy bank, where much of the donations from other people went into his own businesses, or family members, or or other non-related people and stuff. This is pretty much well documented. He didn't lose any money, he made money, while also getting free publicity.

[EdyKel]

At 4/19/17 03:17 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 4/19/17 02:10 PM, EdyKel wrote: He didn't lose any money, he made money, while also getting free publicity.

"Trump, however, spent much more of his own money to seek the nomination. Initially, he'd predicted he would spend $100 million on his campaign, but he ended up spending $66.1 million of his personal fortune, according to recent campaign filings. "

From your own source you absolute failure.

I suggest you actually read these articles you like to link to in order to back up your arguments from now on. Not just the taglines, or you might keep making a fool of yourself.

You must be pretty pissed off at me to keep going on something not related to the topic. Oh, well...

He didn't lose any money. He may have spent some, but he didn't lose it. He gained 5 billion in free advertising. He made hundreds of millions off his run for the presidency. As pointed out, a lot of his campaign donations go back into his businesses. The donations he has made to his campaign were mostly in the form of loans, which he has claimed to have been forgiven - It's also interesting to note he claimed in a 2000 in an interview with Fortune "“It's very possible that I could be the first presidential candidate to run and make money on it.” Basically spending money, then paying himself back with donations. It also brings up questions of how much of that loan he actually used, instead of substituting other people's donations, because he was not spending a whole lot on advertising until late in the cycle, where the bulk of his donations were from mega donors and the RNC. Not to mention he can most likely claim some of his expenses as business related deductions for his taxes. With all this in mind, and other things that we don't know about, it's safe bet that Trump got more out of running for the presidency than he actually put in.

[aviewaskewed]

Can one or both of you guys just agree to be the bigger person and let the feud die? It's tedious to read it in thread after thread....

Back on topic then.

Yeah, this does seem like trying to make good on a campaign promise that will probably wind up one of the two ways most Trump executive orders have gone: People scrambling to figure out what the hell their supposed to do, or litigated in court in the negative for the administration. The "100 days" marker has not been kind for this Administration for the most part.

[EdyKel]

At 4/20/17 10:17 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Can one or both of you guys just agree to be the bigger person and let the feud die? It's tedious to read it in thread after thread....

Back on topic then.

Yeah, this does seem like trying to make good on a campaign promise that will probably wind up one of the two ways most Trump executive orders have gone: People scrambling to figure out what the hell their supposed to do, or litigated in court in the negative for the administration. The "100 days" marker has not been kind for this Administration for the most part.

Already ended the other day. Besides, the side... argument... gave me an excuse to look into it further, rather than just think about it with little to back it up. I know you also think that Trump wasn't serious about his run for presidency, at least, when he first started it.

Back to topic.

Trump over promised on a lot of things. And maybe that was because he was not very serious about winning, or didn't think he had a chance to win. He's also finding out that things are a lot harder in policy making than going with populist rhetoric that sells, while ignoring other realities. He found that out with healthcare and North Korea.

There's is diffidently going to be some confusion over this executive order, but I don't think it's going to change anything. It might give some companies pause, and scare away foreigners - which his Muslim ban, and immigration stance is already doing - but I don't think it's going to stop most companies from applying for h-2b visas.

But the idea that he's going to bring back jobs, or stop millions of immigrants from coming here, is just a pipe dream, that will do more damage than good. If he tries to start a trade war with China, all that will lead to is lead to higher costs on products, and any manufacturing plants that do come back will be automatized. The way he's also dealing with immigration is only going to lead to higher food costs, because the people who work the fields are mostly low paid immigrants. And while I think there is a a lot of abuse over h-2b visas, I just don't see trump fixing it, only scaring away promising individuals from other countries.

I don't have any confidence in Trump, as he going to quickly realize (hopefully) that running a government is a lot more complicated than running a business, and things aren't easily solvable as they sound. I think we are heading towards another recession, as the markets lose confidence in Trump, no matter how much he tries to patch things up with gum and tape.

[EdyKel]

At 4/21/17 07:44 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote: Now this might seem like a strange concept to you Edy. But don't you think that you should actually check in with the guy you are feuding with before lying to a mod about it being over?

It's already ended. Get back on topic.

[aviewaskewed]

At 4/21/17 07:44 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 4/21/17 01:58 AM, EdyKel wrote:

Ok, so here's my dilemma in this: Both of you to my mind are acting badly. Maybe not to the same level though. One of you can be punished for it, the other can't. This strikes me as a generally and genuinely unfair proposition, so I don't really want to hit the button. However if the one who can be punished wants to make it clear he's unwilling to accept any and all attempts to settle this peaceably and get back to just generally having a principal disagreement without resorting to name calling, flaming, and other shit that might make people like myself avoid topics you both post in....I'm going to feel less like it'd be wrong to go ahead and punish.

So how's about we all just go back on topic? You just read my above statement, digest it, don't comment on it, and we forget the whole thing happened ok? Seems ok to me. PM's about anything I may be able to do to help you out are as always very welcome from either party.

As Edy was saying, yeah, I think for Trump this all started as a publicity stunt. This seemed further backed up by the scuttlebutt that was coming out of the campaign apparatus heading into Election Day that Trump and company had already felt they lost, and Trump was pivoting to the idea of launching some sort of Right Wing, Trump centric political news apparatus called "Trump TV" and he was taking shots at Fox News (which seemed like pre-emptive marketing and trying to stake the claim that his brand would be the real voice of the Right), it seems that the most charitable thing you could say about his win is that it was clearly "plan B". But let's again try to drill down on this particular order, which is our focus, general Trump we can handle elsewhere for those that would rather wade into that morass.

There is increasing evidence Trump is feeling the pinch of next Friday (April 29th) when he will hit his "First 100 Days" a benchmark he himself has promoted (and boy is he regretting that shit now with healthcare stalled, tax reform not even out of the gate, and a shutdown potentially looming). Could this be an attempt to create something quickly he can take back to the base and say "look at this wonderful new thing I accomplished, forget about that other stuff I didn't"? Could be, could be.

[EdyKel]

At 4/21/17 08:39 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

As Edy was saying, yeah, I think for Trump this all started as a publicity stunt. This seemed further backed up by the scuttlebutt that was coming out of the campaign apparatus heading into Election Day that Trump and company had already felt they lost, and Trump was pivoting to the idea of launching some sort of Right Wing, Trump centric political news apparatus called "Trump TV" and he was taking shots at Fox News (which seemed like pre-emptive marketing and trying to stake the claim that his brand would be the real voice of the Right), it seems that the most charitable thing you could say about his win is that it was clearly "plan B". But let's again try to drill down on this particular order, which is our focus, general Trump we can handle elsewhere for those that would rather wade into that morass.

There is increasing evidence Trump is feeling the pinch of next Friday (April 29th) when he will hit his "First 100 Days" a benchmark he himself has promoted (and boy is he regretting that shit now with healthcare stalled, tax reform not even out of the gate, and a shutdown potentially looming). Could this be an attempt to create something quickly he can take back to the base and say "look at this wonderful new thing I accomplished, forget about that other stuff I didn't"? Could be, could be.

This is like a traffic accident where the cop tells you to "move along, nothing to see here"... :/

Anyways.... I totally forgot about the Trump TV thing. It's hard to imagine that his run was anything but a publicity stunt when it started. There were so many ways he could financially benefit from the free publicity. Now, that he's president, everything he does will be scrutinized. And if Democrats gain control of one of the houses in congress, his life will be a living hell.

I don't think he's going to accomplish anything in the next 18 days, but he could surprise us. Of course, I don't think people will forgive him for breaking his main promises, none of which he has accomplished. And without the help of congress, it doesn't seem likely. Oh, I guess there is that accomplishment, further dividing Republicans in Congress.

[aviewaskewed]

At 4/21/17 09:16 PM, EdyKel wrote: Anyways.... I totally forgot about the Trump TV thing. It's hard to imagine that his run was anything but a publicity stunt when it started. There were so many ways he could financially benefit from the free publicity. Now, that he's president, everything he does will be scrutinized. And if Democrats gain control of one of the houses in congress, his life will be a living hell.

I have heard from Michael Moore (which yes, is a very dubious source) that the thing started as another attempt to soak NBC for a fat renewal on Celebrity Apprentice, no more, no less. Hey, it worked last time right? Problem was, his incendiary opener shitting on Mexicans made him toxic to them, they figured advertisers would revolt and run off (and considering what happened to O'Reilly, seems pretty damn certain they would have). So then it was time to pivot, play out the string and see what else came along....then he won....now it was time for even more pivoting...it's fake it till he makes it time, promote the hell out of Mar-A-Lago and any other Trump properties he can. A Democratic takeover ends the gravy train because there's a lot of grounds for Impeachment I'd say (not hard to get that ball rolling really) but I think Republicans don't really want to be seen as trying to drop him. But if a sizeable amount of Dems won seats, and they started it....might not even take a majority to my mind. They'd rather Pence, they just need the cover to take him down in a way that doesn't look like they started it.

I don't think he's going to accomplish anything in the next 18 days, but he could surprise us. Of course, I don't think people will forgive him for breaking his main promises, none of which he has accomplished. And without the help of congress, it doesn't seem likely. Oh, I guess there is that accomplishment, further dividing Republicans in Congress.

I don't think he further divided them honestly, I think he EXPOSED how deep it is. How fractured the party is between what used to be the Tea Party and it's ideas, and the mainstream Old Guard. There's a lesson in that that the Dems will need to watch out for too: When you try to co-opt an energetic, sympathetic, fringe ideological group that has high emotion but imperfect (or low, or nil) information about how the government works and how things get done or don't get done....you run the risk of being co-opted by it instead of you co-opting it.

But for Trump, he was and is an empty vessel, obsessed with optics, polls, and perception of himself. A "fake it till you make it" strategy that isn't working as well for President Trump as it did for Candidate Trump. There's no easy rival to deflect to, no story that's bigger then your latest fuck up. His head turned by whatever new information he learns (and at least there is some hope in that, that he's just merely ill-informed and kind of stupid. Not that he's completely stupid, but believes he's the smartest guy in the room and damn everybody who says or thinks otherwise), and it increasingly looks like Kushner and the more moderate end of the spectrum is winning. This seems like more reason for Congressional Republicans to be looking for a way to change the name of the man at the Resolute Desk. He's not one of them, he's not a reliable partner for them. This order in the face of more mainstream action before it proves that. He is a populist wild card that still has dangerous isolationist and nationalistic tendencies (though it is looking like he may have learned to keep whatever racial motivations he has more to the background of his policy making).

Wow, think we're way out in the weeds now....lol

[EdyKel]

At 4/22/17 07:31 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: I have heard from Michael Moore (which yes, is a very dubious source) that the thing started as another attempt to soak NBC for a fat renewal on Celebrity Apprentice, no more, no less. Hey, it worked last time right? Problem was, his incendiary opener shitting on Mexicans made him toxic to them, they figured advertisers would revolt and run off (and considering what happened to O'Reilly, seems pretty damn certain they would have). So then it was time to pivot, play out the string and see what else came along....then he won....now it was time for even more pivoting...it's fake it till he makes it time, promote the hell out of Mar-A-Lago and any other Trump properties he can. A Democratic takeover ends the gravy train because there's a lot of grounds for Impeachment I'd say (not hard to get that ball rolling really) but I think Republicans don't really want to be seen as trying to drop him. But if a sizeable amount of Dems won seats, and they started it....might not even take a majority to my mind. They'd rather Pence, they just need the cover to take him down in a way that doesn't look like they started it.

I have read a lot of theories on why he tried to start Trump TV, ran for president, and what he's trying to do now. Most of it is related to his business, making money, and ego. I also heard one where he was trying to help Hillary out during the election, while undermining the Republican party. It all sounds plausible, when you think about it. It almost sounds better than just saying he is just bat shit insane, because no one wants to think we just elected an unstable person as our president who lives in his own little world. Somehow, that is truly to terrifying for the general populace to consider. And unfortunately, we don't have any laws over the mental fitness for a president, no tests for it, and nothing to compel the people in his administration, or in government, to expose it.

I don't think anyone knows what exactly to do with him. Sure, you have Democrats who would like to impeach him, but that would put in Mike Pence in power. Republican would love to have him, because Trump makes them look bad by being the Republican stereotype, with all their worst qualities exposed. Regardless of who's in the oval office for the next 4 years, it will still be a Republican. But I don't think Trump will be impeached, not for anything he has done so far. Even if Democrats gain a lot of seats, and regain control of one of the chambers in Congress, it's not a guarantee that any Republican will vote to impeach him, simply because it's the worse PR for their party - and they have their pride. Democrats, on the other hand, can use Trump to their advantage, by placing the fear in him. They can't with Pence. And removing Trump would only fuel the rage on the right, making them more belligerent and violent. Trump needs to do what Trump does, and let him destroy himself. He's done a good job so far, destroying his image, and making people realize that he's full of shit, and nothing else. And Democrats will make sure he is neutered of power, and isolated, as people around him are investigated and indicted - including family - making him relatively harmless.