At 2/12/17 06:43 PM, Entice wrote: Regardless of your views, it's not everyone else's fault this happens to you. You repeated a blatant untruth in that sequence of posts. If your argument didn't resort to lies then maybe it wouldn't be so easy to pick apart...

I don't mean to pile on, so if I might, let me just try to make a general statement:

The politics forum is a debate forum, always has been. Politics is one of the ultimately charged subjects, because ones political beliefs usually cut to the core of who they are and what they hold sacred. It can be very demoralizing to take that out into the public sphere to be tested, and find that sphere to be full of bashing, disagreement, and debasement of your belief. I however think that testing is necessary, I've found from time to time that I will say things here, only to find out I was completely misinformed on the issue. Sometimes though, it's quite the opposite. Echo chambers are a bad thing I truly believe, and people should be learning from each other, especially in an age where we are increasingly able to close ourselves off from one another and become ever more polarized. There is only forwards, there is no backwards. We need to work together to find the best path for all.

If only I always lived up to that thought...lol

At 2/12/17 06:17 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 2/12/17 02:42 PM, EdyKel wrote: Are you trying to imply that this is a win for Trump, or something?

Yeah....I mean, it could be in some circles. But it also obviously to me raises the question again of why the change of heart, and I think it would also be a black eye to Russia internationally as it doesn't strike me as good policy to take someone in and give them asylum....only to turn around and take it away when you feel like a friendlier administration in the country they fled comes in and you want to use them as a chip to help cement the relationship. We'll have to see how this one plays out.

If nothing else, it does look suspicious on Russia's part that they would use Snowden as a bargaining chip now instead of a year or two ago. For all of the supposed outrage the NSA scandal created, it blew over relatively quickly and soon afterwards people forgave Obama (or more likely, stop caring) and moved on. Then again, people were probably getting tired of Snowden hiding, and want him to face justice now, and Trump was more than willing to make that promise, whether or not they deliver on that or is a simple bait and switch on Putin's part, we'll see.

At 2/12/17 07:03 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

The politics forum is a debate forum, always has been. Politics is one of the ultimately charged subjects, because ones political beliefs usually cut to the core of who they are and what they hold sacred. It can be very demoralizing to take that out into the public sphere to be tested, and find that sphere to be full of bashing, disagreement, and debasement of your belief. I however think that testing is necessary, I've found from time to time that I will say things here, only to find out I was completely misinformed on the issue...

Then we have people like Trump, who treat the whole thing as political football, where all that matters is wining over your opponent. And fake news has just exasperated the situation.

At 2/13/17 10:41 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/12/17 09:39 PM, EdyKel wrote:
Then we have people like Trump, who treat the whole thing as political football, where all that matters is wining over your opponent.

Like who Edy?

I know it's hard for you to accept, but I do know when to retreat from losing arguments, and admit defeat. Trump is just a clear example. It was also the elephant in the room.

At 2/15/17 07:04 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote: I noticed some youtubers complaining about pro trump tweets being censored.
One youtuber's video.

While others are other busy discussing Joy Villa's MAGA dress she wore at the grammys.

Forbes article on Villa at the grammys.

I'm sure some of the racist and sexist tweets from pro-trumpets are censured for obvious reasons, while Trump censures everything in government that is critical, or are inconvenient, to his policies.

At 2/15/17 11:52 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/15/17 11:07 AM, EdyKel wrote:
I'm sure some of the racist and sexist tweets from pro-trumpets are censured for obvious reasons, while Trump censures everything in government that is critical, or are inconvenient, to his policies.

Lol You think that all of those tweets must have been either racist or sexist? I bet if you met an actual racist or sexist your little tiny heart would explode.

Hate the man all you want. But if you are not fine with censorship from him, then you should also be against it from other sources. Also we have probably the most transparent administration ever that man can't even get away with lying about crowd sizes without being called out on it.

Again, you are comparing a pebble to a boulder.

You bring up a few cases of censorship on alt right hate speech, and harassment, while ignoring the unprecedented silencing of government officials, and a whole community of scientists, to whine about what amounts to a splinter in your finger.

At 2/15/17 12:13 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/15/17 12:09 PM, EdyKel wrote:
You bring up a few cases of censorship on alt right hate speech, and harassment, while ignoring the unprecedented silencing of government officials, and a whole community of scientists, to whine about what amounts to a splinter in your finger.

Now you are calling every trump supporter an alt right, and those tweets must have been hate speech. This would be hilarious if others did not live in the same hive mind as you.

No, I'm just calling the high numbers of people on the right who began chanting white power, and making racist statements, when Trump validated it all. After all, hate speech is up in the country, and most of it is coming from the the right.. And all you had to show for to suport your argument was a vide from some very white guy, complaining about how the poor right is being picked on by Twitter, because they can't espouse their true feeling towards minorities in a civil and truthful way.

Keep trying, son.

At 2/15/17 01:16 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/15/17 01:05 PM, EdyKel wrote:
Keep trying, son.

So you honestly do believe that every single person affected was an alt righter, and absolutely all of those tweets were hate speech?

It's also quote interesting how much you care about the race of that youtuber. And since you complained about me providing only a single example should I provide a whole bunch even though no one will watch all those videos?

You haven't provided anything to say it wasn't just hate, or harassment.

Son, how old are you? Are you in your teens? Because you should know by now that there are a lot of whiners out there, always crying about how unfair things are to them. Or there is some vast conspiracy against them. I use to post on Yahoo, and I would always read some post griping about their posts being deleted, and I would find the the same thing happened to to me, even though some of those posts had nothing more than a general comment about something. I can see post being deleted for saying racist things, or harassing others, or using alt accounts after being banned. You should know this shit by now. I shouldn't have to point out the obvious to you.

At 2/15/17 04:07 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/15/17 04:00 PM, EdyKel wrote: I shouldn't have to point out the obvious to you.

You wouldn't know the obvious if it bit you in the nose. You are too busy virtue signaling all day. You can't even have a discussion without going into full blown ADD mode and trying to change the subject.

If you had any valid points at all to make you would not have to bring talking points into everything. You would be able to just talk about the issue at hand.

Again, you have nothing to show for your argument, just the usual insults and accusations. Man up, son.

I have noticed that you continue to bring up stories about how you, or the right, are victims of some sort of conspiracy or plot by the left. Just a lot of silly nonsense, which is easily debunked by your lack of actual facts, and when compared to the actual stuff that affects minorities, or the left, which they experience more frequently and in greater amounts. You just love to exaggerate, which is why you always ignoring, or downplaying those very things that happen to other groups, while trying to imply it is happening to you, and the right, from the left. You're always trying to convince people that your pebble is as big as a boulder, but it's all in your mind, because you are a petty and an oversensitive little shit.

At 2/16/17 04:49 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 02:04 AM, EdyKel wrote: RAWR

Christ the level of mad in your post is unbelievable. Calm down snowflake before you melt yourself.

How is his post angry? I literally see no anger or self-aggrandizing in that post what so ever.

At 2/16/17 09:01 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 02:04 AM, EdyKel wrote: but it's all in your mind, because you are a petty and an oversensitive little shit.

Yeah I didn't see any either.

What's wrong? Are you a special snowflake?

At 2/16/17 09:08 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 09:06 AM, Heretic-Anchorite wrote:

What's wrong? Are you a special snowflake?

Nope just pointing out the very obvious

So now we're twins! :3

At 2/16/17 04:49 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 02:04 AM, EdyKel wrote: RAWR

Christ the level of mad in your post is unbelievable. Calm down snowflake before you melt yourself.

I'm just pointing out how you come off in your posts to me, son. You sound like some angry white guy always whinging about things.

At 2/16/17 02:39 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 02:07 PM, EdyKel wrote:

At 2/16/17 04:49 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 02:04 AM, EdyKel wrote: RAWR

Christ the level of mad in your post is unbelievable. Calm down snowflake before you melt yourself.

I'm just pointing out how you come off in your posts to me, son. You sound like some angry white guy always whinging about things.

Well i'm just gonna take this as you having no interest in getting along.

You come across as a whiny little kid with daddy issues, and a hardcore SJW. Also you never did answer my question earlier do you honestly believe that every single tweet was from the alt right, or that they were all racist hate speech? You can't even answer a single question without trying to change the subject or going off on a rant about the right. Because daddy went off and voted for trump and you are so pissed about it lol.

When you can prove, with solid statistics, and evidence, that the majority of suspension are not from alt right making racist, or harassing, tweets, then maybe I'll give your argument a second thought. Until, then, you are just promoting fake news and alternative facts.

At 2/16/17 04:00 PM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 03:04 PM, EdyKel wrote:

Well those youtubers are supposedly rallying ATM ask again in a week and I will see what they have. For now I'll provide you with a list of deleted tweets from the POTUS.

https://projects.propublica.org/politwoops/user/realDonaldTrump?page=1&per_page=50

I remember watching the oreillyfactor after seeing his tweet about it had no idea they took it down. You can decide which of those tweets are racist hate speech for yourself quite a few are just him promoting interviews, others are typical things you see from him everyday.

Well, first of all, you have to find out if the tweets were deleted by Twitter, or were deleted by Trump. Trump has been known to delete his tweets if they get him into trouble, or embarrass him. And you think that if Twitter began deleting his Tweets that he wouldn't attack them for it? They guy does not know the term "self control", and he lashes out at everyone and everybody, who displeases him, or if he thinks treated him badly. And you think he would stay quite about this?

As for alternative facts and fake news I bet this was your favorite article to read last year.

That has more substance than anything you have shown over this argument about tweets. And if you understood what fake news is, then we wouldn't be clashing heads over this.

Other media such as CNN(big surprise) is wondering if Adele beat Beyonce at the grammys because of racism.

On to real news now.
Joy Villa who wore the MAGA dress saw an increase in sales.

While quite a few right wingers rushed to buy her album and supported her. Others were quick to point out that she is a Scientologist.

Video of her in 2016 from the Scientology channel.

Son, you can't even put any of this stuff in argument form, you have to make other people figure it out, and that doesn't mean they'll come to the same conclusion. Yes, people are fucking sensitive about the issue of race, and are always wondering who might be racist. And I agree it's out of hand. But it works both fucking ways, with one side being screwed the most, and it's not white.

Obama was often accused of being a racist by the right. And you have a lot of minorities being accused of it to. The conservative media keeps floating these ideas that minorities can get away with being racists, and they(whites) can't - and I know you agree with that. That is fake news, son. It's meant to make you angry, and to vote for a particular political group. The fact is, people like you have never have experienced racism in any way or form. You are more hurt that it hurts your image of your race than anything else, and it allows you to ignore the actual racism towards minorities which hurt them financial, physically, and mentally.

We already went into this discussion of the pebble and the boulder, where white nationalist groups are bigger, have members in powerful positions in state and government, and their hate speech has lead to death, harassment, and destruction, among minorities. What do you have? Conspiracy theories against you, and the right, that you can't even support with basic statistics and facts.

You just proved with your own sources that not only are you in denial by promoting fake news, and dismissing anything that proves you wrong as being fake news (waPo), but you rely on celebrity new stories to promote something that you cant even form your own argument over in words, while hoping it support your argument about tweets in some way. Did I mess anything?

At 2/17/17 06:44 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote:

At 2/16/17 08:07 PM, EdyKel wrote: What do you have? Conspiracy theories against you, and the right, that you can't even support with basic statistics and facts.

What conspiracy theories have I posted? I just linked to a few articles about the grammys you paranoid SJW libtard. Can you have a normal conversation without going off on a tirade.

You just proved with your own sources that not only are you in denial by promoting fake news, and dismissing anything that proves you wrong as being fake news (waPo), but you rely on celebrity new stories to promote something that you cant even form your own argument over in words, while hoping it support your argument about tweets in some way. Did I mess anything?

I just wanted to talk about the grammys, and the first link was a joke. Edy if you can't even take a joke it's probably because you are one. If you believe that Beyonce lost because of racism you belong in a mental institution. Can't even talk about the grammys without you getting triggered ridiculous.

Honestly little kid. You are so obsessed with racism. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist because it does. But you have gone off the deep end into paranoia. If you are looking for it absolutely everywhere all the time you will see it whether it is real or imagined. You need to stay away from all of the scare tactic news sites you keep going on. It's rotting your brain.

Son, you can try to play these games, but anyone can read this shit and see what your are trying to imply with them.

I mean, first you go on about some conspiracy about conservative tweets being deleted and bring up an article about Trumps tweets being deleted for no good reason, because they didn't seem racist.... Now your saying it was a joke? Then you pulled up an article from last years about how half of Trump supporters are racist, and called it fake news. Then, you bring up links about racism and other such nonsense at the Grammy, as if you were trying to link it all together to indicate that people are overeating over race, and as if it's the same with the tweets. This is what you presented. You didn't differentiate any of it and say, "I'm going to talk about something different now". You just mashed it all together.

And no, I'm not angry, I'm just bemused at your attempts to be dishonest, and your silly attempt cover up your nonsense and mistakes by blaming others. That is what little kids do.

At 2/17/17 11:08 AM, SolidPantsSnake wrote: Looks like the travel ban could be seeing changes made to it. Victory to the protesters, and the court?

Definitely for the courts. Because his retreating from the first one (which was poorly worded and patently illegal, you didn't need a law degree to see that) is clearly a victory for the Judiciary and a check on his Executive Power. That one isn't even a question. I don't think it's necessarily a victory for protestors though since I see scant evidence that any protests about the ban did anything to make the courts move all the faster or rule the way they did. Doubt the attention hurt their cause though.

I also think people who are protesting and such aren't paying enough attention to Puzder stepping aside. Puzder steps away after Congressional Republicans turn on him, and Trump nominates a more moderate choice who might actually run the department he's tasked with instead of gutting and destroying it (like his EPA Secretary would surely do). That's an area I think people who want to undermine the administration need to put more focus into since we're seeing real possibility for change and swaying the administration in that area.

Also, the fucking flaming across multiple topics needs to goddamn stop. If y'all can't play nice, you're going to start having to take goddamn vacations. I'm sick of reading it (even in bite sized chunks because this level of trolling and hate has never interested me much), I'm sure other people are....and it's just a real turn off to having people want to participate. Apologies for getting off topic (I really do hate to do it) but I've kind of just hit my limit, and I rightly or wrongly, believe public warnings as a means to trying to sort problems before just kicking people out (I.E. giving folks a chance to stop) is the better way to go.

The people subject to this know who they are, and I expect they simply read this, modulate the behavior, and we go back to the topic. This should not constitute an in thread discussion. If there are questions, please PM me and I'll do my best to answer in a quick and informative fashion.

At 2/17/17 02:14 PM, RightTime wrote: Scott Pruitt has been confirmed to head the EPA with a 52-46 on the Senate Floor.

He'll be the shortest serving Secretary too if the Congressional GOP has it's way and passes their law to kill the EPA

Welp, this is going as expected so far. Snout in the trough from day 1. Anyone pointing it out is 'fake news'. Reasoned debates being aggressively replaced with counter-bitching about how Obama wasn't any better (protip: Most of the time he was, and even when he wasn't that doesn't make Trump continuing it a good thing). Any 'good' points to this about economic growth etc. are either dubious / dependent on selective data interpreting or the result of things being put in place before Trump came into power and he hasn't got around to ruining yet, but will happily take credit for until then.

Watching this from the other side of the Atlantic is equal parts funny and depressing. Watching what happens on the first chance America gets to start reversing this shit through elections will be funnier. And probably more depressing too.

Turns out he was actually right about the Sweden attack though: There was one... 3 weeks ago. Carried out by Neo-Nazis on a refugee center. Nothing on the day in question though. Literally nothing.

At 2/20/17 10:45 AM, SumQuodEris wrote: If the Börder Wåll is just as solid as a Lack table

i hope they build one like the one that used to be in Berlin.
that way there'll be another great party, like there was there when it gets torn down

Never forget ...walls keep things out for sure ...

BUT walls also keep things locked away inside (think Prison !)

Well things just got interesting.

At 3/15/17 06:20 PM, Sause wrote: So, who wants to talk about Trump's tax returns?

Anyone?

Not really. They weren't recent enough to really matter (showing conflicts of interest thatvare twelve years old is pretty pointless), and nothing of interest was on them - Maddow must be getting desparate for ratings, at the moment.

Trump supporters will say "See, nothing there!" and Democrats will say "Look, he's getting rid of a tax that cost him money in the past SPECIAL INTERESTS", but really it amounts to nothing.

So on to more important matters - how's that hunt for nonexistent evidence of Obama committing a felony against Trump going?

It does prove Bernie was talking out his ass though. Wasn't it, what 18 years Bernie said since Trump paid his taxes?

Just another blow to the libbies.

At 3/15/17 11:45 PM, wildfire4461 wrote: It does prove Bernie was talking out his ass though. Wasn't it, what 18 years Bernie said since Trump paid his taxes?

Just another blow to the libbies.

Well, first of all, we don't know who sent it, or if it's authentic. It's obviously very convenient to him, since it undermines the claim he didn't pay taxes - if it's real.

The 2nd part is that without the rest of the tax returns, or the the additional paperwork for the 2005 returns, we are still left in the dark, as it does not really show anything. We don't know if there were special circumstances where he had to pay additional taxes in 2005, or if he consistently paid taxes prior, or after, 2005.

Thirdly, Trump, in the last 5 years, constantly promised to release his tax returns if he ran for the Presidency. He also falsely claimed that he couldn't release any of his tax returns because of an audit - there is no such law that prevented him from releasing a particular year, if under audit, or prior years. After he won in 2016, he changed his story to people not wanting to see it. So, he obviously lied, several times, and made up several excuses, having no intentions whats so ever of ever releasing them.

I suspect there are a lot of things that would embarrass him, get him into trouble with the public, or showed various conflicts of interests - in which many policies he pursues would lead taxpayer money into his various businesses.

In any case, I suspect this latest tax return to lead to further questions, and a renewed interest in getting to the bottom of why he can't be honest and release his other tax returns.

It looks like he ore someone close to him "leaked" those returns:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/15/did-trump-have-his-own-tax-return-leaked-that-was-the-big-question-after-maddow/

This guy is so full of it. Taking anything he says seriously is a big mistake.

At 3/16/17 10:35 AM, gumOnShoe wrote:

Oh, but Trump? Why bother. He's a bag of lies with a yellow wig. 0 shits given as to whatever lie he's peddling today.

This whole thing is an active attempt to weaken the Fed so all the nasty shit can go through on the state level.

At 3/16/17 09:54 AM, Sause wrote: I think this is another teachable moment. This is a guy who has spent an entire career manipulating media. The democrats get clowned by this guy every week, it's just that the Maddow Meltdown was especially overt to this simple fact: you can't stump the Trump.

No....I think the "teachable moment" here has virtually zero to do with Trump. It has everything to do with the clickbait nature of the news cycle right now. Trump didn't clown or do anything here to make Maddow or libs, or dems, or anybody "look stupid". The tax returns are real, they acknowledge that, but then they screamed "fake news" and etc. The fact that Maddow raised good points (albeit very regurgitated ones), gets lost in the fact that she used that style of half truth that's so good to get you to watch "I have Trumps Tax Returns!" Yes Rachel, ya do. But not the ones everybody wants to see. But Trump should perhaps be a bit wary if the theory that he leaked this, or somebody under his direction did. People are looking, and they're going to keep looking. I think there's more then a little willful delusion on your part here.

Which makes me think maybe he's about to checkmate the media yet again with this surveillance claim.

He should be more concerned with the fact that if he CAN'T back up his claims, that HE is now in violation of the law for accusing the former President of a crime with nothing more then a conspiracy theorists word that it happened. I think Trump is doing badly at realizing the difference between just having these late night tweet storms to distract from issues he doesn't want the news covering as a candidate....and how it becomes a very different world when you are an elected official playing this game. I think he's the one that's outclassed and headed towards a checkmate if he doesn't stop.

So Trump is now blaming the British for spying on him for Obama and still doesn't provide any evidence.

At 3/17/17 08:20 PM, LordJaric wrote: So Trump is now blaming the British for spying on him for Obama and still doesn't provide any evidence.

Well, to be fair, he's just repeating the Fox News claim. Or Spicer is (but I'm sure on orders from the boss). Which is the exact same sort of thing that got them into this mess in the first place: Taking badly sourced right wing conspiracy news and tweeting it as fact with all the force and credibility the White House inherently has.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry anymore....