At 11/15/16 05:11 AM, Hacklyn wrote:

At 11/15/16 02:13 AM, Zero2562130 wrote:

The focus is on the men because their voice is rarely ever heard, considered, or given the benefit of the doubt. The results are disastrous, and the claims of the accuser are always held higher than the plaintiff's defense. This is why grilling of accusers exists: To balance out the disposition of believing the accuser because they are often weaker, crying, and female.

We're not saying that false accusations aren't bad and don't make a mess of things. We're not saying false accusations don't ruin lives, we are saying that this is why rape crimes need to be investigated appropriately so that we can know who's who. Right now we can't distinguish between false accusers and actual rape victims who won't go to court because the entire process is shit. So no, keeping the system this way doesn't help anyone solely because it's not possible that they're all false accusers and because it makes people want to not report the crime, or not go through with the process, so we'd never be able to distinguish the false accusers anyway. So in this take too, the way rape victims are dealt with needs to improve anyway.

No, you're just saying that they don't matter because the number is (Supposedly) smaller, despite the fact that the results are ruinous and permanent. While the process is evidently faulty, the questions asked to possible rape victims are still a step in the right direction in terms of fair treatment. To do away with this is to let false rape accusers get away with ruining innocent lives, something that the cunt who started this shit thread obviously has no qualms about. That's ultimately their poor decision, and won't help them or the system as a whole.

Hey, here's a thought: If you care about rape victims so much, then how about throwing a bone to the male ones that aren't given a double-take because of bullshit rhetoric like yours and people like you? You know: "Men can't be raped, he enjoyed it, he's a player/baller/pimp, etc.".

It's rape culture, the idea that men are magically immune to rape. They're not and don't deserve this equivalent of "why didn't you keep your knees together?" or "What was his penis size? It's a factor because you may be lying and could have asked for it because you liked it."

There's no such thing as rape culture. A rape culture implies that rape is both fostered and encouraged in a society, something that isn't true in the slightest. What is true, however, is that shitheel "comediennes" like the ones I mentioned pride themselves as beacons of progress despite getting away with rape themselves, bragging about it, and making the entire situation worse in the process. See: Amy Schumer bragging about raping a drunk guy even though she was sober, Lena Dunham stating that her rapist was a Power Rangers villain and sickeningly attempting to justify sexually abusing her little sister over the years, etc, etc, etc. And since I know some people are going to mention the Ohio middle/high school case and Penn State: They're not trying to help the rapists get away with it or encourage more of it, they're trying to protect the inevitable downfall of their schools' reputations. A lost cause, admittingly, but that's the truth.

(See the trouble the last question has? Penis size = wanted it.)

No, we're prevailers of justice for those that aren't given the benefit of the doubt and proper treatment that they deserve...

The issue is, sure you can have the benefit of the doubt, but the victim in the cases of the other thread could easily have been, to make it understandable, a male. Then what? He couldn't have been a false accuser? Does he deserve those questions after the stats and the stigma we know he'd face? Or do we treat only male victims specially? It has to be fair because it's justice. And you still have to take into account rape culture, trauma and how the system isn't working as it should.

Oh, he definitely could've been, but people will ultimately think that he's just whining/lying/enjoyed it because of the natural biological expectations of men and women, which is not the same thing as the rape culture conspiracy that keeps cropping up in subjects like these that only make the situation worse. If the man in question is a false rape accuser, then yes, he deserves the worst kind of treatment the world has to offer, same case if it's a woman. As a matter of fact, they deserve to be actually raped for attempting to ruin someone else's life, but of course, such a measure would never be ratified. There needs to be better treatment for male victims because of people's natural disposition to cases like those; help for male victims is almost non-existent. Once again: Rape culture doesn't exist, trauma can be faked, and while the system is far from perfect, your suggestions will only make it worse.

Don't delude yourself any further than you already have, kid; us defenders of those wrongly accused never forget, despite society's attempt to do so and broken condoms like yourself claiming that they don't matter.

Sure, but there's a reason why you have to hear it all out and why a proper due process must be protected, regardless of rape culture rhetoric. It's so that there is justice for all not just the focus on protection from false accusers.

No such thing as rape culture, and that's the thing: The entire story is often not heard, and broken fucktoys like the OP clearly don't mind so long as it's in the favor of their gender. A larger focus needs to be put on protection from false accusers because of the greater, far-reaching implications and lack of help for those that did not commit the crime.

The rape culture version of "protection from false accusers" enables lawyers to ask "legit" questions "Well, you know what? I'm gonna say you liked it because "insert rape culture rhetoric here" so it wasn't rape." Basically it all dissolves to "proof aside we don't want to believe you and will set you up by traumatizing you and asking "legit" questions." Then accusers either drops the case, never accuse, or, er, finish trauma. That is how a rape case in court is dealt with.

There can't be a rape culture version of anything because rape culture is not real. And the questions are legitimate because it helps to understand such situations far better than if they were absent. In some cases, the lawyers would be right, e.g. when both parties were drunk and ended up having sex but one party accused the other of rape because she happened to regret the decision, regardless of the fact that neither were thinking straight or in the right state of mind. Those legit questions aren't traumatic and negative responses to them can be faked, so this particular argument against them because of the latter is just as worthless as the rest. Putting the alleged victims on blast is far more productive and progressive than should they be absent, because without them, false rape accusers will get away with their crimes at an even greater rate.

At 11/15/16 06:58 AM, Lintire wrote:

At 11/13/16 05:52 AM, Gagsy wrote: But let me tell you something meninists of Newgrounds; The actual percentage of false allegations of rape is 2-8%. 2-8%.

Funny thing about this is that I'm the exception on both sides. Out of my 27 pending sexual assault cases, 26 of them are false accusations (I'm pleading insanity on that last one) and yet I cannot seem to cross a street without accusing someone of rape.

It's like Tourettes, I'm pretty sure I have a problem. They'll be a 74 year old grandmother all like "Have a nice day, young man" and the first thing that comes out of my mouth is "Who to you think they'll really believe? It's my word against yours. You're going to jail for the rest of your fucking life." and then I just leave.

So with your latest sexual assault case, you actually did rape someone?

That kind of reply to the grandmother makes you seem like a paranoid schizophrenic. Awaiting reply.

I'm not so much a meninist as just a menace, though.

At 11/15/16 02:29 PM, Crimsone wrote: Fuck this world and how it's thinking now. I hope Trump snuffs out these false accusing idiots. I don't even like Trump either.

You will learn to love him like I did. And my father before me. And his father before him, so on and so forth.

No please kill it.

If i see anymore Laci Green/Anita Sarkeesian hybrids in this thread I will off myself

At 11/15/16 07:09 AM, Hacklyn wrote:

At 11/15/16 06:26 AM, S3C wrote:

How so? it's not the legal system that's corrupted, not to say it's perfect. the major problem here is victims not reporting the rape right away. it's understandable and tragic; and how society treats sex is more to blame, not the system. The Brock Turner judge has been disbarred, rightly so. The Canadian judge is suspended. If a lawyer crosses the line during cross examination, it can offend the judge (in turn swaying the jurors), give reason for mistrial, and tarnish the lawyer's reputation.

In the legal perspective: conviction rates (out of a 1000 perpetraors, 994 will walk free). From one article, "According to research funded by the U.S. Department of Justice, only 18% of reported rapes result in a conviction." Some victims say they don't want to report it in the first place because the police could not (2%) or would not (13%) do anything to help them (RAINN).

The first reason is fear of retaliation(20%), although 30% gave other reason(?) or did not cite one.

Additional stats (about conviction rates): Enliven. Please refer to issues with said stats mentioned in the article.

I didn't ask you to bring up more (disturbing) statistics that might be indicative of corruption, but to elucidate on certain procedures and practices within the legal system that can be amended to more effectively execute justice. Perhaps re-training the police force to take sexual assault claims more seriously, is one measure.

At 11/15/16 06:37 PM, FoAngel wrote: No please kill it.

If i see anymore Laci Green/Anita Sarkeesian hybrids in this thread I will off myself

I like Laci Green though. I don't think she's an Anita Sarkeesian by any means.

She's strongly against infant male circumcision (+1 on men's rights)
She's strongly against forcing religion on people (+1 on human rights)

She seems more to be in favor of human rights, and not just women's rights.

At 11/16/16 02:18 AM, NeonSpider wrote: I like Laci Green though. I don't think she's an Anita Sarkeesian by any means.

She's strongly against infant male circumcision (+1 on men's rights)
She's strongly against forcing religion on people (+1 on human rights)

She seems more to be in favor of human rights, and not just women's rights.

Laci has went really SJW and rad fem in the last few years. Her video It's Just a Joke was a pretty bad attempt to curtail humor because it normalizes stereotypes of things like rape and race.

The lynch mob she instigated on Sam Pepper and other people that did prank and pick up videos was disgusting in my opinion, rather than go through legal channels she decided to harass and encourage her followers to flag and petition Youtube for their removal. Before anyone brings up "Sam Pepper is a rapist and sexual harasser" did you ever stop to consider that the majority of those videos are scripted and staged? FouseyTube, Roman Atwood, a host of others all have come out and said they pay people and hire actors because it gets them views.

I used to be a Laci fan, but when she started including Rithrandil (also known as CardinalVirtues, FederalistFilms, UnseenPerfidy) in her circle of people I evaluated her priorities and had to part ways. Rith was just outed for gaining sympathy with rape survivors in efforts to sleep with them and had a really bad thing going on with Crash Override Network which ended in him deleting his online presence.

Laci has some good videos like you mentioned, but tweets like this "We are now under total Republican rule. Textbook fascism. Fuck you, white America. Fuck you, you racist, misogynist pieces of shit. G'night." leave me wondering how attached she really is to her narrative.

Damn, I missed an actual discussion thread and not another gamechanger shitpost.

At 11/16/16 02:52 AM, Ganon-Dorf wrote:
Laci has some good videos like you mentioned, but tweets like this "We are now under total Republican rule. Textbook fascism. Fuck you, white America. Fuck you, you racist, misogynist pieces of shit. G'night." leave me wondering how attached she really is to her narrative.

You should have seen her video the day after the elections. She was kinda breaking down and implying that Trump would send death squads or something to neat lgbt, muslims and whatever other fake shit Trump has been accused of.

Calling it quits on this thread after writing this post, sick of all this rape talk around General.

At 11/16/16 04:37 AM, Hacklyn wrote: I'm not sure why most people are irritated by these posts, though.

Because it's saying that group A should have preferential treatment and is "the real" victim over group B.

you accuse all rape victims of being false accusers

Nobody here denies that rape happens. We just say that there's the ever-growing possibility that a person is saying they were raped for a) attention, b) to get back at someone or c) because they wanna ruin someone's life. The only people here that even come close to saying a definitive answer are you and Gagsy by believing wholeheartedly every person who cries rape with your deeply flawed "guilty until proven innocent" stances.

which ultimately leads to justifying questions like "why didn't you keep your knees together?" or "what was his penis size?" because they were trying to imply the victim wanted it because of its size.

No, @Makakaov explained it very well in your own thread why they might've asked the penis size question, you're ignoring his point entirely. The only one here that's even thinking the judge asked it because she might've wanted it is you, sounds a lot like you're projecting your preferences.

What's supposed to change? Sure we know false accusations are wrong but is this okay?

None of those two are ok, but you still want to believe that rape victims are "the real" victims and cast the falsely accused as casual losses in the fight to catch a rapist. Both a real rape victim and a falsely accused person are victims.

So what has to change is the way we see rape, deal with it, think about it, talk about it etc. This and the fact that we need a catch all term for these examples (and the ones not mentioned) is why I keep calling it rape culture.

Why not call it Peanut-Butter Culture while you're at it? It would make about as much sense and hey, it would trivialize the word peanut-butter much like what's been done with rape.

As the system is now, and this is a point you've all let slide, an actual victim of a crime is more likely to be called a "false accuser" than to get justice.

Kindly sod off.
If you wanna cry about rape victims not being believed I suggest looking in the mirror.
You and everyone who thinks like you with your "guilty until proven innocent" stance only hurt real victims of rape. You've singlehandedly blown everything out of proportion in the past couple of generations with your 1 out of 5 women lies, your 77 cents on the dollar bullcrap, your disgusting 'oh they won't believe you so don't even bother reporting it' mentality and your feelings>proof arguments. You've blindly believed every single woman who's ever been proven to be a hoaxer and you still worship the ground they walk on like they're martyrs, leaving the real rape victims with insecurities and fears about being believed. You made this bed now sleep on it and pray that someone will come along to undo all the harm that's been done.

Is this fine? Who would report the crime if it meant they would be roasted in court? And then stigmatized after?

None of those two happen in civilized courts in the West.

As Zero said, "They ought to be raped again."

He said the false accusers deserved to get raped themselves then concluded that it wouldn't work either.

And right around at the end of the spectrum we see actual false accusers and the falsely accused. We created all this ourselves when we only took in part of the equation. Rape culture.

You've only taken one part into the equation this whole thread, clearly you don't believe your own words.

*drops mic* I'm out.

I haven't been frequenting the forums as of late but this seems more of a forum reply than a thread topic of its own. I haven't seen a thread on rape on Newgrounds in a while, actually.

I think the reason the gender issue has such a push and pull has to do with people on one side of the issue that describe all of the disadvantages of being one gender, which creates a sympathy circle-jerk within the gender that one argues is marginalized, yet can set the tone of minimizing the problems of the other. Then you have mediators that try to say that because there are two sides to the situation they somehow cancel each other out, which makes no sense; the idea is to try and fix social problems, not just make them relatively equal in how disabling they are. At the root of it, the issue is that people just want to make some claim about who has more privilege (a la Nietzsche's slave morality) rather than discussing the actual experiences people have.

What's interesting is that in most cases, the issue one group deals with corresponds to one the other deals with. A clear example is the idea of women having access to sex but being forbidden from wanting it, while men work for sex and are expected to want it all the time. That harms everyone. Another example that I experience virtually nonstop is self-esteem, which nearly every girl I've dated has struggled with. Obviously that's a problem for the girl in question, but I've also found it can make a relationship really one-sided if the guy offers emotional support but gets none in return. It almost always seems to come from some weird parental issue, too. I find that talking about things in these kinds of relative terms usually creates a more functional understanding between people as well, because you're not talking about peoples' problems as if they're in a vacuum, but rather you take into account how the entire interaction unfolds.

I know I'm getting way off topic here, but since you were talking about rape specifically as a minimized issue I thought I'd offer a perspective on why I think there's such a reflexive disagreement whenever this kind of stuff is brought up.